Sharing a house on rent allowance

stevek93

Hi all,

I am currently sharing a house and looking to apply for rent allowance. The landlord is a also living in the house, does he need to be registered with the tenancy board in order for him to receive the rent allowance? I have all the necessary paperwork from the rent allowance pack completed expect the tenancy agreement.

djimi

Assuming you are not living with the landlord, then he should be registered with the PRTB regardless. I dont know how this affects your ability to apply for RA.

stevek93

No I am living with the landlord.

djimi

Then its not a tenancy and he doesnt have to register it with the PRTB.

foggy_lad

stevek93 wrote: »

No I am living with the landlord.

If you are living with the landlord in a relationship then it is not a tenancy and you will not get any rent allowance.

stevek93

No relationship, am sharing a house. I am wondering how I prove my tenancy agreement when the landlord is not registered with the tenancy board?

yermandan

Just get him to draught up a signed letter of agreement stating the terms of your arrangement. That will suffice

stevek93

Will that work?

yermandan

Yes. You don't get a lease as the owner lives there so instead, you need proof from the owner that you are renting a room. I work in the sector!

Good luck

stevek93

Grand so thanks.

odds_on

Any writen agreement should be entitled "Licence Agreement" and a statement similar to:"This agreement creates a licence to occupy a room or rooms in a resident landlord’s own home and it is not a tenancy. Therefore, it is outside the scope of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004."

Many of the terms of a written licence agreement are similar to those of a tenancy agreement except as regards exclusive use. A licensee has no exclusive use of any part of a property, no even his/her bedroom.

The RA office may want to know how the utility bills are paid, included in the rent (and if so, what proportion) or separately.

stevek93

Quick update on this,

I have been speaking with the local community welfare officer in the area recently. Have told him my circumstances that I am living with the landlord renting a room. I was told that a dafted letter from the landlord was not acceptable and to come back with a legal lease agreement. Also that if the landlord is not registered with the PTRB he will go to jail.

In reading the "Residential Tenancies Act 2004" it clearly states that it does not apply to "rent a room" or other arrangements whereby the landlord is living in the dwelling.

What I cannot understand is why do I need a legal lease agreement when I am renting a room in the landlords house and the fact the landlord needs to be registered with the PTRB when he only owns one property which he is living in with myself?

D3PO

your CWO is a clown and doesn't know what they are talking about.

snubbleste

Your CWO is clearly wrong.
Make them aware of this in writing and/or complain to their superior.

stevek93

This is the letter that the CWO officer refused.

Gatling

Your probably better off finding somewhere affordable on your own

stevek93

Gatling wrote: »

Your probably better off finding somewhere affordable on your own

Excuse me do you want to pay my rent? I think not, if I could afford rented accommodation without the need of the rent allowance do you not think I would be doing so?

Gatling

stevek93 wrote: »

Excuse me do you want to pay my rent? I think not, if I could afford rented accommodation without the need of the rent allowance do you not think I would be doing so?

Its called a suggestion as it stands you could be literally homeless tomorrow if your landlord decided to want you out

snubbleste

stevek93 wrote: »

This is the letter that the CWO officer refused.

Has the CWO refused you rent supplement?
If so, definitely appeal to their supervisor. They used to be called SCWO, dunno what they are called now.

Pawwed Rig

stevek93 wrote: »

Quick update on this,

I have been speaking with the local community welfare officer in the area recently. Have told him my circumstances that I am living with the landlord renting a room. I was told that a dafted letter from the landlord was not acceptable and to come back with a legal lease agreement.

Your landlord could give you a lease agreement but it is probably not worth the paper it is written on. Maybe ask for the CWO's supervisor as they have zero grasp of this type of tenancy.

stevek93 wrote: »

Also that if the landlord is not registered with the PTRB he will go to jail.

hahaha what a moron.

Gatling

Op have you been accepted on to the housing list or applied to yet

stevek93

Gatling wrote: »

Its called a suggestion as it stands you could be literally homeless tomorrow if your landlord decided to want you out

Yes true, but do you understand how hard it is to find accommodation that will accept rent allowance? And yes I am currently on the housing list.

stevek93

snubbleste wrote: »

Has the CWO refused you rent supplement?
If so, definitely appeal to their supervisor. They used to be called SCWO, dunno what they are called now.

Yes twice, first time I was given outdated forums.

Richard Dower

stevek93 wrote: »

Yes true, but do you understand how hard it is to find accommodation that will accept rent allowance? And yes I am currently on the housing list.

Its damn near impossible mate!....even worse is the cap limits, try finding a place for 390pm..lol!

And even less landlords want anything to di with RAS.

stevek93

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Your landlord could give you a lease agreement but it is probably not worth the paper it is written on. Maybe ask for the CWO's supervisor as they have zero grasp of this type of tenancy.



hahaha what a moron.

I asked the CWO for a sample of a lease agreement and said no, the attachment https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/224359/261195.jpg is what he refused. The problem I have is I was made homeless last month the landlord I knew as a friend before hand told myself I could stay in his spare room once I contribute to a means of rent a month. He has no acknowledge of letting out a room or dwelling which I am put in the firing line.

Gatling

stevek93 wrote: »

Yes true, but do you understand how hard it is to find accommodation that will accept rent allowance? And yes I am currently on the housing list.

Believe me I do and its getting harder every year

stevek93

Richard Dower wrote: »

Its damn near impossible mate!....even worse is the cap limits, try finding a place for 390pm..lol!

And even less landlords want anything to di with RAS.

The rates have gone up 17th of last month which is somewhat of a help.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

Richard Dower

stevek93 wrote: »

The rates have gone up 17th of last month which is somewhat of a help.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

By how much a week?....any numbers for Limerick?

stevek93

Richard Dower wrote: »

By how much a week?....any numbers for Limerick?

All on the website I know it used to be €475 a month in Dublin.

stevek93

Could someone please explain to me what a licence agreement is oppose to a tendency agreement. Is it a legal letter or something the landlord can daft up himself?

http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=infocentre_article_view&id=41

If you choose to rent out a room(s) in your home, you are not covered by landlord/tenant legislation in Ireland. This means that you are not obliged to register with the PRTB as a landlord, provide a rent book to the tenant or ensure that the accommodation provided meets any minimum physical standards.

This also means that private tenants living in your principal home are living under a "Licensee Agreement" not a tenancy agreement and are really only entitled to "reasonable notice" if you choose to terminate the agreement. Tenants are, however, entitled to refer disputes regarding periods of reasonable notice, retention of deposits, and disputes regarding deductions from rent for damage to property that is over and above normal "wear and tear" to the Small Claims Court.

djimi

Its my understanding that it means very little. Very few of the clauses that could be written into it would have any legal bearing, and it would be more about coming to an understanding between owner and lodger about how they want the letting to play out.

stevek93

djimi wrote: »

Its my understanding that it means very little. Very few of the clauses that could be written into it would have any legal bearing, and it would be more about coming to an understanding between owner and lodger about how they want the letting to play out.

True there is no legal way to justify both parties. What I am wondering is will it be acceptable in the eyes of the SWO?

djimi

That I couldnt tell you. It confirms that you are living there I guess and presumably how much you are paying. Whether or not that is sufficient I dont know.

quietsailor

Here is a link to Threshold's webpage about rent a room schemes, They actually state that the LL doesn't need to be registered with the PRTB.

Here is the PRTB page on Licencees

Can you print these out and bring them into that ... CWO (I don't want to type what I think of him/her I'll get banned)

The_Conductor

D3PO wrote: »

your CWO is a clown and doesn't know what they are talking about.

I wouldn't have put it quite so bluntly, but I agree with you- the CWO hasn't a rats arse what they're talking about.

OP- the letter you got- is inaccurate and factually incorrect.

Something along the lines of:

To whom it may concern,

I, (name) owner of (address) wish to confirm that Stevek93 is renting a room from me under the Rent-a-room scheme, and living at (address). Stevek93 is living with me under licence, and his residence is not subject to any provisions of the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act, as I, the owner, remain resident in the property.

Stevek is paying rent of EUR300 per month. (Leave out the crap about understanding its from rent allowance- its wholly irrelevant, and only murky'ing the whole situation).

As I am residing in the property myself, Stevek93 is living with me under licence, there is no legal tenancy, and therefore Stevek93's continued residence is outside all terms of the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act.

If you'd like to discuss this with me- feel free to contact me between (give times)

Yours sincerely,

(Owner of the property)

stevek93

Thanks for everybody's reply's, I have been speaking too a member of staff in the local welfare office this morning explaining my situation even though I have it in writing that the tendency act does not apply and does the landlord need to be registered with the PRTB a hard copy from the irishlandlord.com website they are still protesting their innocence. When I mentioned the rent a room scheme I was told it does not apply that I cannot use it to claim rent allowance, next when I ask him he does he know or has ever hear about rent a room scheme he said no. I asked about the PRTB and was told yes the landlord does need to be registered as they use it to process claims even though I presented him with the residential act of 2004 stating it does not apply to rent a room scheme. Next I was told the same waffle too come down with a tendency agreement filled in from the landlord as they will not accept The_Conductor drafted letter from the landlord. When I asked to speak to a supervisor I was told no then asking for his name was also told no him saying I am not speaking to you anymore and proceeded to walk away.

With no luck in the HSE clinic, I tried the welfare office next door. Multiple times asking for a supervisor she finally came to the window, I must say she was very understanding of my situation but still demanded a lease agreement.

What I am wondering now after having the landlord fill out the tendency agreement should I just go ahead with it?

I must say the welfare needs to educate their staff big time.

StillWaters

That's incredibly poor service all round. I think you might have to contact your local TDs office, explain the situation to them. A phone call from their office will achieve more than a dozen visits from you sadly. You can find their details on dailwatch.ie

djimi

If they want a tenancy agreement then find one online, get the landlord to fill it out and send it into them. Doesnt really matter what it says; it could be written on a roll of toilet paper for all the legal standing it would have, but make sure that it has the address and rental amount on it. That might keep them happy.

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

If they want a tenancy agreement then find one online, get the landlord to fill it out and send it into them. Doesnt really matter what it says; it could be written on a roll of toilet paper for all the legal standing it would have, but make sure that it has the address and rental amount on it. That might keep them happy.

Sigh.....
Someone needs to seriously educate the staff on the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act.

Course of least resistance- is to get the owner to fill out a lease, though why he or she would willingly do this is another story (a lease is a legally binding agreement- even if its intent is simply to get over the ignorance at the local welfare office).

Frankly- I'm appalled that no-one in the local office had the gumption to even google what you were saying- their lack of humanity (and to be honest- curiousity) is mind boggling.

stevek93

Right just back from the SWO office so good so far except for one thing, they are processing my claim but still are debating the fact the landlord needs to be registered with the PRTB to use their service even though he mentioned himself that he was going under the rent a room scheme. I am going to speak to the local TD to shed some light on this as it really has me baffled.

I have used the lease agreement which I know there was really was no need, I am also going to make a official complaint to the welfare office.

The_Conductor

He is not a landlord. He is someone letting a room in his house under the rent-a-room scheme. When you keep calling him a landlord- it implies he is renting you something, when he isn't. You're using the terminology of a landlord/tenant situation- when the situation does not exist.

djimi

stevek93 wrote: »

Right just back from the SWO office so good so far except for one thing, they are processing my claim but still are debating the fact the landlord needs to be registered with the PRTB to use their service even though he mentioned himself that he was going under the rent a room scheme. I am going to speak to the local TD to shed some light on this as it really has me baffled.

I have used the lease agreement which I know there was really was no need, I am also going to make a official complaint to the welfare office.

Get onto Threshold/PRTB and get them to send you something in writing to say that the owner-occupier does not need to be, and indeed cannot be, registered with the PRTB.

And I agree; youll make it easier on yourself if you stop using terminology like landlord and tenant, which do not apply in this case.

Pawwed Rig

djimi wrote: »

Get onto Threshold/PRTB and get them to send you something in writing to say that the owner-occupier does not need to be, and indeed cannot be, registered with the PRTB.

I dunno. He said he brought in a copy of the Act and they still didn't believe him so it looks like these guys aren't for turning. It would be a simple matter for them to check but it sounds like they just can't be arsed and if they can't tick their little box then they will make life difficult.

djimi

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I dunno. He said he brought in a copy of the Act and they still didn't believe him so it looks like these guys aren't for turning. It would be a simple matter for them to check but it sounds like they just can't be arsed and if they can't tick their little box then they will make life difficult.

Well a letter from the PRTB saying that the owner-occupier cannot register with them is about as conclusive as it will get, so if that doesnt do the trick then the OP may as well give up.

The_Conductor

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I dunno. He said he brought in a copy of the Act and they still didn't believe him so it looks like these guys aren't for turning. It would be a simple matter for them to check but it sounds like they just can't be arsed and if they can't tick their little box then they will make life difficult.

Hes probably calling the guy his landlord to their faces- the same way he has been here. Is it any wonder there is confusion?

stevek93

I made it very clear to the CWO officer he is technically not a landlord that I am under a licence but he still will not listen, I am using the term landlord here as its easier. Cannot find a working phone number from the PRTB might drop them a email.

djimi

Try 0818 303037 for PRTB.

stevek93

djimi wrote: »

Try 0818 303037 for PRTB.

Worked thanks. Again they said there is no need for the landlord to register with the PRTB, am waiting for a letter to arrive to state the outcome of my claim hopefully the claims office is a little more educated. Thanks for everyones help.

Richard Dower

stevek93 wrote: »

Worked thanks. Again they said there is no need for the landlord to register with the PRTB, am waiting for a letter to arrive to state the outcome of my claim hopefully the claims office is a little more educated. Thanks for everyones help.

Steve, this CWO sounds like a right eejit and dickhead tbh....he probably think your trying to pull a fraud. I'd like to see this go in your favour just to put him in his place that he hasent a clue about his job.

stevek93

Good news, letter arrived Wednesday stating my claim has been progressed. One thing I don't understand is where is the money being sent all it says on the letter is it is paid on the last Monday of every month with no means of how too collect the money?

foggy_lad

stevek93 wrote: »

Good news, letter arrived Wednesday stating my claim has been progressed. One thing I don't understand is where is the money being sent all it says on the letter is it is paid on the last Monday of every month with no means of how too collect the money?

You should get a cheque in the post at the address.