Dole in Post Office

FigRoller

Why is it that in this modern age you have to pick up state benefits from such a local place where everyone knows each other? also why is having any sort of a conversation with the post office staff awkward when he or she is counting out your money?

KKkitty

You can get it paid through your bank account.

KKkitty

KKkitty wrote: »

You can get it paid through your bank account.

I don't think so.

Play To Kill

The humiliation is good for you, seemingly jobs suddenly appear when you are treated like crap.

Paddy Cow

KKkitty wrote: »

You can get it paid through your bank account.

Not anymore. You have to collect it in the post office once a week. They were trying to cut down on scammers.

The Backwards Man

I'd love to get my money that handy.

I'll be proud as punch the day I finally get to go to the Post Office to get my pension.

(If I live that long)

Norfolk Enchants

Play To Kill wrote: »

The humiliation is good for you, seemingly jobs suddenly appear when you are treated like crap.

They have brought in a photographic social welfare card. Collecting it in person shows that you are resident in Ireland and proclaim who you claim to be. I dont see how queuing up in a post office every so often to collect the welfare stipend is humiliating the recipient?

FigRoller

It's hard to look the post office staff member in the eye! especially when you are frantically stuffing your money in your wallet as awkwardly as possible in case someone you know might see you!

Play To Kill

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

They have brought in a photographic social welfare card. Collecting it in person shows that you are resident in Ireland and proclaim who you claim to be. I dont see how queuing up in a post office every so often to collect the welfare stipend is humiliating the recipient?

Seems pretty humiliating to me that you are expected to que up in a post office with a photographic ID card to prove you are not scamming welfare just because a tiny minority do so. A small bit of dignity, respect and privacy to those in receipt of welfare would be no harm in post offices or social welfare offices.

Norfolk Enchants

FigRoller wrote: »

It's hard to look the post office staff member in the eye! especially when you are frantically stuffing your money in your wallet as awkwardly as possible in case someone you know might see you!

If you are feeling embarrassed and ashamed for collecting your payment in a public place, make an appointment with your local welfare offices manager and explain the situation to him or her.

Use the words 'suffer' 'anxiety' and 'panic attacks'.

ringadingding

Play To Kill wrote: »

Seems pretty humiliating to me that you are expected to que up in a post office with a photographic ID card to prove you are not scamming welfare just because a tiny minority do so. A small bit of dignity, respect and privacy to those in receipt of welfare would be no harm in post offices or social welfare offices.

Which other methods of fraud detection do you propose ?
I know it's not nice, but you're dealing with handing out cash, you need to be sure you're dealing with the person entitled to the cash.

Norfolk Enchants

Play To Kill wrote: »

Seems pretty humiliating to me that you are expected to que up in a post office with a photographic ID card to prove you are not scamming welfare just because a tiny minority do so. A small bit of dignity, respect and privacy to those in receipt of welfare would be no harm in post offices or social welfare offices.

I think roughly one third of our expenditure goes on social welfare. The photo id card was only brought in recently, iinm. We shall see if it saves money or not in the coming months. Its a necessary evil, in my view. Anyone who is falsely claiming needs to be rooted out and dealt with.

Those that are legitimate have nothing to fear and if they root out the welfare fraudsters, it will clear up any misconceptions people have of genuine welfare claimants and perhaps even stave off cuts.

ColeTrain

FigRoller wrote: »

It's hard to look the post office staff member in the eye! especially when you are frantically stuffing your money in your wallet as awkwardly as possible in case someone you know might see you!

Maybe try wearing some pants the next time you go in.

Play To Kill

ringadingding wrote: »

Which other methods of fraud detection do you propose ?
I know it's not nice, but you're dealing with handing out cash, you need to be sure you're dealing with the person entitled to the cash.

How about seeing people individually every two weeks in private like in the UK for example where you bring along proof of your job search and applications, where you get advice and some help when looking for work, where they help you with things such as cv's and creating a plan to get back into the workforce when you are unlucky enough to loose your job and then your welfare payment is paid into your bank account? Would that prove that the right person was collecting the welfare or is humiliation a better way?

Mint Sauce

The daily dole/welfare bashing thread is early today I see.

Norfolk Enchants

Play To Kill wrote: »

How about seeing people individually every two weeks in private like in the UK for example where you bring along proof of your job search and applications, where you get advice and some help when looking for work, where they help you with things such as cv's and creating a plan to get back into the workforce when you are unlucky enough to loose your job and then your welfare payment is paid into your bank account? Would that prove that the right person was collecting the welfare or is humiliation a better way?

Welfare organise recipients to meet with employment agencies that help them improve their cvs and offer them retraining. My buddy was unemployed for a bit, he got sent a letter informing him of the need to meet up for a chat with an employment agency. He expressed a desire to reskill and was informed that they had a budget of 500 euro per person, to help them do just that.

He completed the course and is now back in part-time employment.

Paddy Cow

Play To Kill wrote: »

How about seeing people individually every two weeks in private like in the UK for example where you bring along proof of your job search and applications, where you get advice and some help when looking for work, where they help you with things such as cv's and creating a plan to get back into the workforce when you are unlucky enough to loose your job and then your welfare payment is paid into your bank account? Would that prove that the right person was collecting the welfare or is humiliation a better way?

I guarantee you that people on jsa in the UK would much prefer our system of going to the post office once a week. The jsa system sounds great in theory but in reality it is an expensive joke. Workers have targets to meet many people end up being unfairly sanctioned and have their benefits reduced or stopped. The only thing even worse than jsa is ATOS.

Scruffles

FigRoller wrote: »

It's hard to look the post office staff member in the eye! especially when you are frantically stuffing your money in your wallet as awkwardly as possible in case someone you know might see you!

why?
most people will need to access at least one of the various welfare benefits at some point in their life and thats what its there for,seeing someone get job seekers doesnt suggest the person will never contribute to society money wise,its just some guy getting cash out the post office.
everyone thinks with their ego first, they wont be thinking 'FFS..theres a guy getting job seekers allowance,he is such a scrounger how can he show his face in here the good for nothing scrounger,grrrr,wait till the daily mail comments section hears about this one' they will be busy thinking 'for gods sake hurry the fck up,whys he/she taking so long to serve everyone?' and 'hmmm,wonder if that COD game/trainers/ben & jerries/pack of carlsberg etc is still on offer? screw that,am buying them all and getting the wife a bottle of cheap plonk and taking the price tag off'.

FigRoller

Scruffles wrote: »

why?
most people will need to access at least one of the various welfare benefits at some point in their life and thats what its there for,seeing someone get job seekers doesnt suggest the person will never contribute to society money wise,its just some guy getting cash out the post office.
everyone thinks with their ego first, they wont be thinking 'FFS..theres a guy getting job seekers allowance,he is such a scrounger how can he show his face in here the good for nothing scrounger,grrrr,wait till the daily mail comments section hears about this one' they will be busy thinking 'for gods sake hurry the fck up,whys he/she taking so long to serve everyone?' and 'hmmm,wonder if that COD game/trainers/ben & jerries/pack of carlsberg etc is still on offer? screw that,am buying them all and getting the wife a bottle of cheap plonk and taking the price tag off'.

Best post so far. Has put my mind at ease!

Play To Kill

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I guarantee you that people on jsa in the UK would much prefer our system of going to the post office once a week. The jsa system sounds great in theory but in reality it is an expensive joke. Workers have targets to meet many people end up being unfairly sanctioned and have their benefits reduced or stopped. The only thing even worse than jsa is ATOS.

I can't say that was my experience when I recently had to sign on in the UK for a while, benefits are reduced or stopped if you don't supply proof every two weeks that you have been actively seeking work. It felt a hell of a lot different to when I had to sign on in Ireland years ago.

starviewadams

When I was unemployed back in 2009 for nearly 9 months I received 2 rejection letters in the post despite applying for well over a hundred jobs.

If we used the UK system here what would I have shown the social welfare folks to prove I was actively seeking work?

Norfolk Enchants

starviewadams wrote: »

When I was unemployed back in 2009 for nearly 9 months I received 2 rejection letters in the post despite applying for well over a hundred jobs.

If we used the UK system here what would I have shown the social welfare folks to prove I was actively seeking work?

Did you use email or a job site for the others? Normally they send you back an email informing you that you were unsuccessful in your application.

So just print up a copy of the rejection emails.

Play To Kill

starviewadams wrote: »

When I was unemployed back in 2009 for nearly 9 months I received 2 rejection letters in the post despite applying for well over a hundred jobs.

If we used the UK system here what would I have shown the social welfare folks to prove I was actively seeking work?

In the uk you simply fill out the JSA form with the details of any jobs you have applied for giving the name and address of the company and the job title along with the job reference number if there is one, you don't need to show any correspondence from the companies to yourself.

djflawless

Play To Kill wrote: »

The humiliation is good for you, seemingly jobs suddenly appear when you are treated like crap.

Ya see its fcuking eejits like you that have this country in bits...
"everyone should be high, mighty, and up me own fcuking hole as me, and if their not i'll ridicule them till they abandon the country for foreign ground"

Get off your high horse.jobs are not as plentifull as you make them out to be

Paddy Cow

djflawless wrote: »

Ya see its fcuking eejits like you that have this country in bits...
"everyone should be high, mighty, and up me own fcuking hole as me, and if their not i'll ridicule them till they abandon the country for foreign ground"

Get off your high horse.jobs are not as plentifull as you make them out to be

He was being sarcastic and pointing out that humiliating people isn't going to make jobs magically appear

Play To Kill

djflawless wrote: »

Ya see its fcuking eejits like you that have this country in bits...
"everyone should be high, mighty, and up me own fcuking hole as me, and if their not i'll ridicule them till they abandon the country for foreign ground"

Get off your high horse.jobs are not as plentifull as you make them out to be

What part of my post says jobs are plentiful? If you continue down the thread you will see where I mention I have left the country, do you think I did that because jobs are plentiful in Ireland?

Is your sarcasm detector switched off by any chance or are you just on your own high horse?

djflawless

Play To Kill wrote: »

What part of my post says jobs are plentiful? If you continue down the thread you will see where I mention I have left the country, do you think I did that because jobs are plentiful in Ireland?

Is your sarcasm detector switched off by any chance or are you just on your own high horse?

no. Just pissed off of threads slagging the dole recievers that actually try to get work...opinion and such??

Play To Kill

Oh and you might also notice where I say I have recently been on the dole in another country but without the humiliation factor :eek:

ringadingding

Here in Austria, it's pretty fair but ruthless.
You lose your job, you get 80% of your old salary with quite a generous minimum ( ex minimum wage employees would get the equivalent ), for roughly a year, in that year the government will reskill you for free with well organised courses, and for foreigners they will give you German language and Austrian culture courses.
At the end of the year, your money drops to poverty levels and you can stay on that or find a job, if you don't find a job, they will find one for you.
You take the job or you get no money, no ifs, no buts.

The advantage the government here has over Ireland is that they help business' create jobs and help them fill them, also they will ' create' an offical job for you, cleaning the transport system, shovelling snow in winter, litter picking in the summer etc.

That's why unemployment is tiny here, it's slightly skewed as they create unnecessary positions, but the pay difference In these positions and the dole is quite small, but the newly found employee is paying taxes again and back into the system.

They give you every opportunity to get back on your feet without any shame or huge lifestyle changes, for a year...
Then you play by their rules.
If you miss days on your course, or don't turn up for interviews, you lose your money and you're on your own.

fryup

ringadingding wrote: »

Here in Austria, it's pretty fair but ruthless.

They give you every opportunity to get back on your feet without any shame or huge lifestyle changes, for a year...
Then you play by their rules.
If you miss days on your course, or don't turn up for interviews, you lose your money and you're on your own.

ah sure thats Austria for ya, sure that will never work here in Ireland it just wouldn't sit right with us

anyway i'm down to the bookies see ya later

everdead.ie

The post office makes sense as it is a Nationwide network of local branches.

If they were to change the location to a different place you would see the same people in the new place as well anyway. The people you know are probably their for the same reason you are.

There is nothing to be ashamed of as long as you are trying to make your way back into the workforce.

On the new cards issued to combat fraud it is necessary we have a budget which we must meet if we don't cut down on fraud the only other option to come in on budget is to cut benefits across the board.

IrishExpat

It's not exactly a comfortable atmosphere.

The workers in the post office don't like handing out money, while working for same. The recipients are hoping they're not seen and/or judged.

I was on state support for a short time, whilst upskilling and making plans to leave again - and it's not exactly a confidence boost.

I used to be in a bad mood most of Tuesday after doing the post-office thing. I get annoyed when I can't generate my own means.

With a bit of luck the next time I collect it, it'll be my pension.

jimgoose

Bleh. Back in my hair-oil days you received a ration of rotten fruit and veg every three weeks. And you were pelted with it while in stocks in the village square, while the Town Crier proclaimed "Behold ye poverty-stricken, unemployed person, mark him well lest ye end uppe the same though sloth and devil-ry!". Ye don't know ye're luck these days.

mathie

FigRoller wrote: »

Why is it that in this modern age you have to pick up state benefits from such a local place where everyone knows each other? also why is having any sort of a conversation with the post office staff awkward when he or she is counting out your money?

Maybe you could sell the secret of how they get the figs in the fig roll and avoid the awkardness of collecting dole?

mathie

FigRoller wrote: »

Best post so far. Has put my mind at ease!

You're giving out about being judged by people and then you do it yourself?

SEPT 23 1989

Its your money not theirs,remember that

Clareboy

Up until 2010, the dole used to be paid into people's bank accounts, but in that year, we had the Icelandic volcanic eruptions. The ash clouds from the volcano grounded flights in Europe for a number of weeks. During that period, 30,000 dole recipients failed to turn up for their monthly singing. They were mostly Eastern Europeans who were scamming the Irish welfare system by living abroad and still claiming benefits here.

That is why the department had to go back to the old system of paying the dole in cash at one's local post office.

anndub

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

They have brought in a photographic social welfare card. Collecting it in person shows that you are resident in Ireland and proclaim who you claim to be. I dont see how queuing up in a post office every so often to collect the welfare stipend is humiliating the recipient?

Have you ever had to do it?

Mr Whirly

You can choose what Post Office you want so if you live in a city just pick one further away from your house.

Richard Hillman

You can choose your post office in your original Social Welfare application form. I filled out mine last week and had the option. I know that is not much use to people in rural areas though.

Piliger

Clareboy wrote: »

Up until 2010, the dole used to be paid into people's bank accounts, but in that year, we had the Icelandic volcanic eruptions. The ash clouds from the volcano grounded flights in Europe for a number of weeks. During that period, 30,000 dole recipients failed to turn up for their monthly singing. They were mostly Eastern Europeans who were scamming the Irish welfare system by living abroad and still claiming benefits here.

That is why the department had to go back to the old system of paying the dole in cash at one's local post office.

I'd like to see some references for that number ... ? No offence intended :P

looking_around

Play To Kill wrote: »

Seems pretty humiliating to me that you are expected to que up in a post office with a photographic ID card to prove you are not scamming welfare just because a tiny minority do so. A small bit of dignity, respect and privacy to those in receipt of welfare would be no harm in post offices or social welfare offices.

There is, just not for the dole ..:rolleyes:

SHOVELLER

ringadingding wrote: »

Here in Austria, it's pretty fair but ruthless.
You lose your job, you get 80% of your old salary with quite a generous minimum ( ex minimum wage employees would get the equivalent ), for roughly a year, in that year the government will reskill you for free with well organised courses, and for foreigners they will give you German language and Austrian culture courses.
At the end of the year, your money drops to poverty levels and you can stay on that or find a job, if you don't find a job, they will find one for you.
You take the job or you get no money, no ifs, no buts.

The advantage the government here has over Ireland is that they help business' create jobs and help them fill them, also they will ' create' an offical job for you, cleaning the transport system, shovelling snow in winter, litter picking in the summer etc.

That's why unemployment is tiny here, it's slightly skewed as they create unnecessary positions, but the pay difference In these positions and the dole is quite small, but the newly found employee is paying taxes again and back into the system.

They give you every opportunity to get back on your feet without any shame or huge lifestyle changes, for a year...
Then you play by their rules.
If you miss days on your course, or don't turn up for interviews, you lose your money and you're on your own.

Utopia.

Chances of a commons sense approach happening here? Nil.

I was in my local post office the other day and the chap in the next window just handed over his social welfare card and got paid. So not all post offices are demanding photographic ID.

FigRoller

FigRoller wrote: »

Why is it that in this modern age you have to pick up state benefits from such a local place where everyone knows each other? also why is having any sort of a conversation with the post office staff awkward when he or she is counting out your money?

You don't have to pick it up from the local PO, you can choose another as far as I know.

IrishExpat wrote: »

The workers in the post office don't like handing out money, while working for same. The recipients are hoping they're not seen and/or judged.

I get annoyed when I can't generate my own means.

Just because you're self conscious about not generating your own means, doesn't mean the post office workers are taking time out from their day to hold it against you. It's a very large part of their job, they may have a grudge against you but it certainly doesn't have anything to do with you picking up your money. Who on earth told you they don't like handing out money?

I've known many people who've had to go on the dole, and some who wanted to, and I get why a lot of people find it uncomfortable, but as for people feeling embarrassed about being seen by people they know - that's strange. Surely the people you know will know whether you have a job or not and understand your circumstances.

bbm1

Play To Kill wrote: »

How about seeing people individually every two weeks in private like in the UK for example where you bring along proof of your job search and applications, where you get advice and some help when looking for work, where they help you with things such as cv's and creating a plan to get back into the workforce when you are unlucky enough to loose your job and then your welfare payment is paid into your bank account? Would that prove that the right person was collecting the welfare or is humiliation a better way?

if you live at least I think 20 minutes from the nearest dole office, you post in your proof that you are looking for work. This i would assume be the reason for a lot of people doing the double. For an extra £50 a week just have to post some thing every 2 weeks. They don't require proof that you have actually applied for these jobs so easily made up.

Clemenza

Clareboy wrote: »

Up until 2010, the dole used to be paid into people's bank accounts, but in that year, we had the Icelandic volcanic eruptions. The ash clouds from the volcano grounded flights in Europe for a number of weeks. During that period, 30,000 dole recipients failed to turn up for their monthly singing. They were mostly Eastern Europeans who were scamming the Irish welfare system by living abroad and still claiming benefits here.

That is why the department had to go back to the old system of paying the dole in cash at one's local post office.

I did not know this

Rubber_Soul

SHOVELLER wrote: »

I was in my local post office the other day and the chap in the next window just handed over his social welfare card and got paid. So not all post offices are demanding photographic ID.

They will eventually, it's only being rolled out now. Once you get the new card the old one no longer works.

tim3000

Play To Kill wrote: »

How about seeing people individually every two weeks in private like in the UK for example where you bring along proof of your job search and applications, where you get advice and some help when looking for work, where they help you with things such as cv's and creating a plan to get back into the workforce when you are unlucky enough to loose your job and then your welfare payment is paid into your bank account? Would that prove that the right person was collecting the welfare or is humiliation a better way?

That is a great idea and it has the added benefit of you having to explain why you are not looking for work. It is very easy to get complacent while in receipt of the dole especially when all the jobs require experience that you just dont have.

Thwip!

Clareboy wrote: »

Up until 2010, the dole used to be paid into people's bank accounts, but in that year, we had the Icelandic volcanic eruptions. The ash clouds from the volcano grounded flights in Europe for a number of weeks. During that period, 30,000 dole recipients failed to turn up for their monthly singing. They were mostly Eastern Europeans who were scamming the Irish welfare system by living abroad and still claiming benefits here.

That is why the department had to go back to the old system of paying the dole in cash at one's local post office.

Anything to back that up? No offence intended but that's mindboggling if true

Tombi!

What's wrong with the post office? Nearly anytime I go there I never got hassle. If you're getting hassle about being on JSA or whatever, get your post office switched or something. All it is for me is: walk in, hand card, swipe card, enter numbers, get money, leave. Takes less than 30 seconds.

Thwip! wrote: »

Anything to back that up? No offence intended but that's mindboggling if true

Thwip! I'm not sure if it was obviously eastern immigrants or whatever; but apparently a lot of people were living abroad (Irish or otherwise).
This is the best I could find: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2010/11/02/00008.asp

Not very useful but it's something.

Again, I'm not saying it's immigrants or anything like that.

Paddy Cow

Clareboy wrote: »

Up until 2010, the dole used to be paid into people's bank accounts, but in that year, we had the Icelandic volcanic eruptions. The ash clouds from the volcano grounded flights in Europe for a number of weeks. During that period, 30,000 dole recipients failed to turn up for their monthly singing. They were mostly Eastern Europeans who were scamming the Irish welfare system by living abroad and still claiming benefits here.

That is why the department had to go back to the old system of paying the dole in cash at one's local post office.

While I would dispute (naively maybe) that the figure of 30,000 fraudulent claims can be atributed to Eastern Europeans I do know that this is basically why they stopped paying SW into bank accounts. Before that you could get your money paid into your account on a weekly basis and this made it easier for people (both foreign and home based) to either work in another county/country for a month and then turn up for the singing on. Having to go to the post office once a week cuts down on bogus claims. If they bring in a photo social welfare card, it will cut down on it even more.