Middle Lane Hogs to be punished in the UK.

MugMugs

A serious bone of contention for a lot of folks around here.

The UK are now proposing to fine people who sit in the middle lane.

Source: DailyMail

Dailymail wrote:

Drivers who hog the middle lane of a motorway face £100 fines and three penalty points.

In a crackdown on anti-social motoring unveiled today, a new fixed penalty offence of careless driving will also target those who cut up other cars, tailgate or block a dual carriageway’s outside lane.

Now on a day when a charge of €6.50 is being proposed for the M50 this may not go down well here but I'd give my back teeth to see it introduced here.

Henry Ford III

I agree. Middle lane hogging is a big problem here.

_Kaiser_

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I agree. Middle lane hogging is a big problem here.

You need to teach people how to join/leave a motorway first though.

I freely admit that I usually sit in lanes 2 and 3 between junction 6 (Blanch) and 9 (Naas road). Why? Because it becomes a free-for-all with people diving across multiple lanes at the last minute, slowing to a halt at the end of the on-ramp, people in Lane 1 not moving over to allow people merge safely etc.

Given the almost zero enforcement of anything beyond "speeding" in this country I'll take whatever actions I deem necessary to keep myself, my passengers and my car safe, and if that means driving along in the outer lanes until I get passed the aforementioned chaos then that's what I'll do.

djimi

They would need to enforce the laws that we currently have first before trying to introduce something like that over here. If the Gardai dont care about potentially dangerous learner drivers who drive on their own, why would you think they would bother pulling over middle lane drivers?

wexie

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You need to teach people how to join/leave a motorway first though.

I freely admit that I usually sit in lanes 2 and 3 between junction 6 (Blanch) and 9 (Naas road). Why? Because it becomes a free-for-all with people diving across multiple lanes at the last minute, slowing to a halt at the end of the on-ramp, people in Lane 1 not moving over to allow people merge safely etc.

Given the almost zero enforcement of anything beyond "speeding" in this country I'll take whatever actions I deem necessary to keep myself, my passengers and my car safe, and if that means driving along in the outer lanes until I get passed the aforementioned chaos then that's what I'll do.

And that's not just on the M50. If I'm heading south on the M11/N11 I tend not to get back into the inside lane until well past the Greystones/Kilcoole exits. Too many eejits just pulling out with looking, or pulling onto the road at the speed of a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter!! Had far too many frights and near misses. I'd rather upset a few people by being a middle (outside) lane hogger for a bit and arrive with clean pants.

(just to point out, once there are fewer exits I do comfortably sit in the inside lane happily puttering along)

gallag

Why do people get on like you are limited to how many lane changes you can make, if you think it is to dangerous to drive in the correct lane its not to hard to turn your wheel slightly and move untill the car you are blocking gets by and then move back out to your "safe" lane.

theteal

I heard this on the radio this morning, it's good news I suppose but I find that middle lane hogging is nowhere near as bad over here (I'd drive the north eastern quadrant of the M25 several times a week, it's 4 lanes mostly so my experience may be limited) as it is back on the M50 in Ireland

Henry Ford III

theteal wrote: »

I heard this on the radio this morning, it's good news I suppose but I find that middle lane hogging is nowhere near as bad over here (I'd drive the north eastern quadrant of the M25 several times a week, it's 4 lanes mostly so my experience may be limited) as it is back on the M50 in Ireland

I'd suggest the opposite is the case.

Anything goes on the M50.

Anan1

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'd suggest the opposite is the case.

Anything goes on the M50.

That's what (s)he said.;)

TwoShedsJackson

MugMugs wrote: »

Now on a day when a charge of €6.50 is being proposed for the M50 this may not go down well here but I'd give my back teeth to see it introduced here.

Then you'd have to give something else to see it actually be enforced here. At least in the UK the traffic cops enforce most of the laws a fair amount of the time. Over here something gets introduced, and then usually widely ignored due to it being 'inconvenient'.

Henry Ford III

Anan1 wrote: »

That's what (s)he said.;)

Please stop making sense Anan1

munchkin_utd

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Then you'd have to give something else to see it actually be enforced here. At least in the UK the traffic cops enforce most of the laws a fair amount of the time. Over here something gets introduced, and then usually widely ignored due to it being 'inconvenient'.

the guards unfortunately are hamstrung by inadequate laws (and Irish Politicans hamstrung by not giving a crap about legislation as they only focus on attending funerals and getting re-elected).

Stuff like a faulty headlamp had no fixed penalty charge which UNBELIEVABLY meant that till recently a guard had to charge you with being a danger on the road AND force a court appearance (costing the taxpayer in expensive court time)where they also needed to be present (costing the taxpayer garda time) to get any sort of a conviction, if any at all.
Thats now a fixed penalty offense but the rest of the regulations are nowhere near as comprehensive as Germany or the UK where the police can book you for a raft of offences without need for a court appearance.

slight tangent, but its amazing that before every election the politicans go mental promising all sorts of expensive projects and measures YET they would never think of promising new laws that cost nothing but make the life of a citizen that bit more bearable.
Actually, maybe something like 250euro on the spot fine for middle lane hoggers and the likes would be a start!

creedp

munchkin_utd wrote: »

the guards unfortunately are hamstrung by inadequate laws (and Irish Politicans hamstrung by not giving a crap about legislation as they only focus on attending funerals and getting re-elected).

Stuff like a faulty headlamp had no fixed penalty charge which UNBELIEVABLY meant that till recently a guard had to charge you with being a danger on the road AND force a court appearance (costing the taxpayer in expensive court time)where they also needed to be present (costing the taxpayer garda time) to get any sort of a conviction, if any at all.
Thats now a fixed penalty offense but the rest of the regulations are nowhere near as comprehensive as Germany or the UK where the police can book you for a raft of offences without need for a court appearance.

slight tangent, but its amazing that before every election the politicans go mental promising all sorts of expensive projects and measures YET they would never think of promising new laws that cost nothing but make the life of a citizen that bit more bearable.
Actually, maybe something like 250euro on the spot fine for middle lane hoggers and the likes would be a start!

Before you go applying a €250 fine better be clear about what is the definition of a middle lane hogger .. one person's 'middle lane hogger' is another person's 'safely progressing along the [M50]'. How quickly should someone move from hogging the middle lane to the left lane? After 100m? within 20 seconds?

djimi

creedp wrote: »

Before you go applying a €250 fine better be clear about what is the definition of a middle lane hogger .. one person's 'middle lane hogger' is another person's 'safely progressing along the [M50]'. How quickly should someone move from hogging the middle lane to the left lane? After 100m? within 20 seconds?

You should only be in that lane when overtaking someone, and should move back into the left hand lane as soon as it is free and safe to do so. Basically, if you are not overtaking someone then you are a middle lane hogger.

MugMugs

creedp wrote: »

Before you go applying a €250 fine better be clear about what is the definition of a middle lane hogger .. one person's 'middle lane hogger' is another person's 'safely progressing along the [M50]'. How quickly should someone move from hogging the middle lane to the left lane? After 100m? within 20 seconds?

It will be blatantly obvious who is hogging and who isn't

I've endless reels of Dashcam footage where the M50 is empty and yet there are still cars sitting lanes 2 and 3.

It's just downright dangerous.

munchkin_utd

creedp wrote: »

Before you go applying a €250 fine better be clear about what is the definition of a middle lane hogger .. one person's 'middle lane hogger' is another person's 'safely progressing along the [M50]'. How quickly should someone move from hogging the middle lane to the left lane? After 100m? within 20 seconds?

the brits are saying that you will get done if you are in the middle lane for over a mile when the inside lane is there lying empty the whole time.

being a little lazy on a stretch when theres a middling amount of widely spaced trucks in the inside lane wont lead to a fine.

On the M50/ N7.... theres often stretches with few trucks and often a very empty inside lane (esp on the N7 off peak) so such a rule there would be a godsend.

mickdw

What is the mind set of those drivers that get it so wrong?
I have seen cars on reasonably empty roads sit in the outside lane, eventually move into the middle lane to let someone by then immediately move out again even though the road is completely empty ahead.
Is it that they genuinely believe that it is the 'fast lane' and that they must drive in that lane if they are going anywhere near the speed limit?

Macy0161

There appears to be zero enforcement of the no HGV's in the overtaking lane on dual carriageways/ two lane motorways and the 2nd overtaking lane of 3 lane motorways. Why introduce another law that won't be bloody enforced?

gutteruu

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You need to teach people how to join/leave a motorway first though.

I freely admit that I usually sit in lanes 2 and 3 between junction 6 (Blanch) and 9 (Naas road). Why? Because it becomes a free-for-all with people diving across multiple lanes at the last minute, slowing to a halt at the end of the on-ramp, people in Lane 1 not moving over to allow people merge safely etc.

Given the almost zero enforcement of anything beyond "speeding" in this country I'll take whatever actions I deem necessary to keep myself, my passengers and my car safe, and if that means driving along in the outer lanes until I get passed the aforementioned chaos then that's what I'll do.

Blocking passing lanes because you are 'inconvenienced' on inside lane makes you as bad as the people who can't merge. At least they do it through their ignorance. If I see someone driving bad that doesn't justify me to drive bad aswell.

ardmacha

I freely admit that I usually sit in lanes 2 and 3 between junction 6 (Blanch) and 9 (Naas road). Why? Because it becomes a free-for-all with people diving across multiple lanes at the last minute, slowing to a halt at the end of the on-ramp, people in Lane 1 not moving over to allow people merge safely etc.

The UK is not only targeting middle lane hogs "In a crackdown on anti-social motoring unveiled today, a new fixed penalty offence of careless driving will also target those who cut up other cars, tailgate.." These other offences need to be targeted also, notably those who dive across lanes exiting and entering.

corktina

i was on the M25 in the UK on sunday and came across a dipstick hogging lane 4 of 6 at 45 mph.... i bet he was an Irish tourist in a hire car.

_Kaiser_

gutteruu wrote: »

Blocking passing lanes because you are 'inconvenienced' on inside lane makes you as bad as the people who can't merge. At least they do it through their ignorance. If I see someone driving bad that doesn't justify me to drive bad aswell.

Ultimately I don't really care what some "I'm driving in the correct lane and tut tut the rest of you" type (and I don't mean specifically you - I'm talking generally) thinks to be honest. I'll move back over when *I* deem it safe to do so, regardless of whoever is behind me (obvious exceptions being ambulances and so on but even then I'll still use caution rather than just swinging left/right wildly or hitting the brakes as I see many do whenever blue lights appear in the mirror).

In an ideal world yes, everyone would drive in lane 1 and only move into 2/3 to actually overtake.. but this is Ireland and things just don't work that way - either from drivers or those who are supposedly enforcing the rules - so I prefer to deal in reality.

And don't mistake my choosing to avoid the messing in the inner 2 lanes for "blocking" anyone. One thing I don't do is dawdle when it's safe/appropriate to not do so and I'm fully aware of the difference between an indicated speed and a "real" speed. I even know how the indicators and mirrors work

However, as I said above, given the zero enforcement of almost everything motor related, the piss-poor standard of driving generally - particularly on motorways which to be fair, our driving test doesn't even cover! :rolleyes: - and high cost and long delays of getting anything sorted if something does happen, I will do whatever I think best to protect myself, my passengers and my car.

gutteruu

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ultimately I don't really care what some "I'm driving in the correct lane and tut tut the rest of you" type (and I don't mean specifically you - I'm talking generally) thinks to be honest. I'll move back over when *I* deem it safe to do so, regardless of whoever is behind me (obvious exceptions being ambulances and so on but even then I'll still use caution rather than just swinging left/right wildly or hitting the brakes as I see many do whenever blue lights appear in the mirror).

As long as you feel safe, while everyone now has to drive bumper to bumper, tailgating everywhere, undertaking all sides because you want to feel safe?

By your logic, I'm completely justifed in beeping, tailgating 2 inches from everyones bumper, flashing etc to get lane hoggers to move because..'they are in the wrong' so its fine for me to do wrong?

Typical Irish drivers!

_Kaiser_

gutteruu wrote: »

As long as you feel safe, while everyone now has to drive bumper to bumper, tailgating everywhere, undertaking all sides because you want to feel safe?

By your logic, I'm completely justifed in beeping, tailgating 2 inches from everyones bumper, flashing etc to get lane hoggers to move because..'they are in the wrong' so its fine for me to do wrong?

Typical Irish drivers!

That's not what I said at all is it? I said that given the reality of people not knowing how to safely enter/exit a motorway, absence of common sense or even courtesy, nevermind enforcement, I'll do what I deem necessary to keep myself safe.

So yes if that means alternating between lanes 2 and 3 between exit 6 and 9 on the M50 while the free-for-all ensues to my left then that's what I'll do, and if it offends the sensibilities of the righteous "I'm in the driving lane" / "it's a limit not a target" brigade well then that's just tough really.

Until such time that one can drive in lane 1 without constant threat of being side-swiped by some idiot then I'll continue to drive as I feel appropriate to the conditions - in this case as far away from them as possible.

But to pick up on some of your specifics.. where did I say that tailgating or undertaking was acceptable? Frankly I'd have no problem with flashing someone who was holding me up if they haven't moved over after 10/15 seconds and where there's plenty of opportunity to do so safely - generally you'll find they have a phone glued to their ear anyway and need the wake up call, but that doesn't mean that I sit on their bumper in the meantime either!
Equally if I feel it's safe/appropriate to move over to let someone past I'll do that too.

Thankfully however this chaos seems to be generally localised to the M50/N7. Once you get out into the rest of the motorway network things become a lot more civilised and progress can be made without the need to sit in the outside lane to avoid the muppetry.

What do I base this on? Frequent use of the M1/M2/M3/M7/M8 and 200,000km travelled over the last 5 years on all road classes and in all conditions. That's not to say I've seen everything or never make a mistake myself, but it does prepare you for most situations and allows you to anticipate these things before it becomes a problem.

As such I drive appropriate to the conditions of the road/traffic/weather at the time rather than being overly concerned about offending the sensibilities of the "I'm driving within the law" types or arbitrary numbers on speed signs. Again, that's not to say that I do 150 km/h everywhere either but if the opportunity presents and it's safe to do so, I won't be dawdling under the limit either. Equally I won't do the posted 80 on many of our godawful backroads either or continue doing 60-80 through towns/past schools etc as I see every day.

My point is if people drove with more awareness of their environment (other cars, pedestrians, weather and so on) and anticipated more ("hmm, it looks like it's backing up up ahead.. I better ease off rather than slamming on the brakes at the last second" / "my exit is coming up, maybe I better move left now rather than cutting across 3 lanes 50m before the off-ramp" etc) then traffic would flow a lot better.

But again, seeing as our driving test doesn't even cover motorways, it's not surprising the standard is so low.

corktina

the test doesn't include motorways in the UK either, but our Rules of the Road does and when you are experienced enough to pass the test you can then start getting experience on the Motorways

It's easy, you drive in the left-most available lane, using all other lanes only to overtake slower vehicles

gutteruu

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

That's not what I said at all is it? I said that given the reality of people not knowing how to safely enter/exit a motorway, absence of common sense or even courtesy, nevermind enforcement, I'll do what I deem necessary to keep myself safe.

But driving in the middle lane makes it unsafe for everyone else. Whilst you may be driving along fine, not blocking your lane, no major problems around you, a row of traffic miles long might be stuck behind a car in the 3rd lane. That car can't or won't move over because the middle lane is blocked with people who don't want the hassle of the merging traffic. All while the inside lane is half empty.

The M50/M7 is the exact opposite of the way it should be most of the time. 3rd lane packed with slow moving traffic, middle lane usual people away in their own world and inside lane empty. I do about 50k miles per year and need to make good time, hence I end up in 3rd lane stuck behind people who can't pull in because of the middle lane brigade. Then I see people flying up the inside of everyone, tailgating, road rage, flashing, beeping...all caused by the people hogging the middle lane oblivious to the world around them.

Max Power1

gutteruu wrote: »

But driving in the middle lane makes it unsafe for everyone else. Whilst you may be driving along fine, not blocking your lane, no major problems around you, a row of traffic miles long might be stuck behind a car in the 3rd lane. That car can't or won't move over because the middle lane is blocked with people who don't want the hassle of the merging traffic. All while the inside lane is half empty.

The M50/M7 is the exact opposite of the way it should be most of the time. 3rd lane packed with slow moving traffic, middle lane usual people away in their own world and inside lane empty. I do about 50k miles per year and need to make good time, hence I end up in 3rd lane stuck behind people who can't pull in because of the middle lane brigade. Then I see people flying up the inside of everyone, tailgating, road rage, flashing, beeping...all caused by the people hogging the middle lane oblivious to the world around them.

left most lane ftw

It is my own personal highway to dublin it seems (no one else uses it!)

doolox

I do not know what was causing the muppets on the outer lane on the m50 northbound from Ballymount jct to come to a COMPLETE HALT at times on the way home at 6pm today.

I could not get any lane where there was not this practice of complete stops and no obvious crash or cause to explain it.

Are there some drivers actually stopping before changing onto the feeder roads to the M50????

It is the only way to explain it.

At most other times the inner lane is often the fastest lane and most often empty.

People are either too lazy or too afraid to move in and out of lane as traffic dictates and prefer to hog the middle lane even if the inner one is empty.

Jesus.

djimi wrote: »

You should only be in that lane when overtaking someone, and should move back into the left hand lane as soon as it is free and safe to do so. Basically, if you are not overtaking someone then you are a middle lane hogger.

That's all fine in theory but in practice, on certain roads, its not that simple. The M50 has traffic joining it almost on a continual basis which is different from a Motorway stretching across the Country where traffic joins infrequently.

Having said that, I always stick to the left lane unless I'm overtaking but when the M50 is very busy I can see why people would stick to the middle lane whilst doing a decent speed.

_Kaiser_

Jesus. wrote: »

That's all fine in theory but in practice, on certain roads, its not that simple. The M50 has traffic joining it almost on a continual basis which is different from a Motorway stretching across the Country where traffic joins infrequently.

That's actually a very good point. The M50 can't really be judged against the rest of the motorway network really because of this - especially between the aforementioned exit 6 (Blanch) and 9 (Naas Road) where you have multiple exits/joins within a few km, several of which are badly designed as it is (take exit 9 Northbound which is only a few hundred metres from the on-ramp from 10 meaning cars are trying to merge at the same time as others are trying to get off).

creedp

mickdw wrote: »

What is the mind set of those drivers that get it so wrong?
I have seen cars on reasonably empty roads sit in the outside lane, eventually move into the middle lane to let someone by then immediately move out again even though the road is completely empty ahead.
Is it that they genuinely believe that it is the 'fast lane' and that they must drive in that lane if they are going anywhere near the speed limit?

That's the issue that's really difficult to fathom. It must be the case that they genuinely think they should be in the outside lane when they are travelling at/above a certain speed. It surely can't be the case that it massages their ego to be there? Ths is one for Uncle Gaybo to prioritise!

the culture of deference

They are also setting up traffic courts to reduce court delays as part of a wider plan to improve Britain's criminal justice system.

Traffic-light jumpers and speeding motorists are to be dealt with in special traffic courts in a bid to free up time for more serious cases, the Government said today.


About half a million motoring cases are heard in magistrates' courts every year and can often take longer to progress than major offences, the Ministry of Justice said.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/special-courts-will-deal-will-trafficlight-jumpers-and-speeding-motorists-8620826.html

StudentDad

It's all well and good getting irate about drivers trundling along in the overtaking lane at 12mph. However, it would be better if we had properly designed so-called motorways in the first place!

The junctions on some of our 'motorways' are badly designed and in some places downright dangerous. Ramps on and off too short or so winding god help you if you don't have your wits about you.

Nevermind that on some stretches it almost feels like there is an exit every ten feet. When you couple that with even worse signage it's amazing there aren't more accidents.

SD

120_Minutes

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You need to teach people how to join/leave a motorway first though.

I'll take whatever actions I deem necessary to keep myself, my passengers and my car safe, and if that means driving along in the outer lanes until I get passed the aforementioned chaos then that's what I'll do.

This, this, a million times this.

I drive the N25 cork-midleton everyday. it's 120km/h until carrigtwohill, but i spend most of it in the overtaking lane at 120 as the majority of drivers are in the left lane doing 100 or sometimes even 80 km/h. I'll take that over weaving between lanes for appox 10 km any day. I know it's incorrect.

A lot of drivers dont know how to merge onto a dualler or a motorway, and once their on it they dont know how to let others onto it.

ardmacha

It's all well and good getting irate about drivers trundling along in the overtaking lane at 12mph. However, it would be better if we had properly designed so-called motorways in the first place!

The junctions on some of our 'motorways' are badly designed and in some places downright dangerous. Ramps on and off too short or so winding god help you if you don't have your wits about you.

There are some issues, but Irish motorways are pretty well designed for the most part and signposting has improved greatly. In the UK they have all manners of D3 A roads with negligible slip roads. The problem is not the roads, in general, it is the drivers and the lack of sanction for drivers acting irresponsibly.

Henry Ford III

Hang on for a sec. This thread is about people who habitually hog lane 2. Passing merging/departing traffic on the outside lane(s) is exactly what they are for surely?

_Kaiser_

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Hang on for a sec. This thread is about people who habitually hog lane 2. Passing merging/departing traffic on the outside lane(s) is exactly what they are for surely?

It's the definition of "hogging the lane" though where things get unclear.

For example, as I've said several times above I'll generally sit in lane 2/3 between exits 6-9 on the M50 because of the multiple exits/joins in that stretch which covers only a few km.

To the outside observer it may look as though I'm "hogging" the outside lane(s) but in reality I'm taking the safest route as opposed to weaving in and out of the inner lanes to avoid being side-swiped by others who don't know how to join/leave a motorway properly along this stretch.

And again, my safety > the sensibilities of the "righteous" types.

sofitalliah

I was one of those people who tailgated to be in front everyday on the M50 until recently when I changed my attitude to driving. I now stick on the cruise control in lane one and watch the world fly past, I still make the same time and get about 150 kilometres more out of a tank of juice plus lead a stress free life.

gutteruu

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

And again, my safety > the sensibilities of the "righteous" types.

Your safety takes priority over everyone elses safety.

You are the exact example of a typical brutal Irish driver. Screw everyone else. I'll do what I want because its everyone elses fault. You clearly admit to hogging a lane because you feel safer...whilst hogging a lane. You reasoning is idiotic.

Meanwhile everywhere else people are undertaking, flashing, beeping because of you. You are worse than any other type as you intentional drive badly due to blatant stuburness. At least the other bad drivers can be educated. Your attitude is the root problem in Irish motoring. No consideration for anyone else.

_Kaiser_

gutteruu wrote: »

Your safety takes priority over everyone elses safety.

You are the exact example of a typical brutal Irish driver. Screw everyone else. I'll do what I want because its everyone elses fault. You clearly admit to hogging a lane because you feel safer...whilst hogging a lane. You reasoning is idiotic.

Meanwhile everywhere else people are undertaking, flashing, beeping because of you. You are worse than any other type as you intentional drive badly due to blatant stuburness. At least the other bad drivers can be educated. Your attitude is the root problem in Irish motoring. No consideration for anyone else.

Read over my posts again and come back to me.

You seem a bit obsessed with this idea that everyone has to undertake and flashing, beeping etc as a result as well. There's a difference between driving at speed/pace of the cars ahead in the outer lane and dawdling along holding everyone else up behind you and believe me, I don't hold anyone else up.

I'm also specifically talking about a 5/6km stretch of "motorway" that really should be declassified as such because of the number of exits and joins to it over this stretch. Where did I say I spend the rest of the trip in the outside lane?

It sounds more to me that you are probably the type of motorist who sits in lane 1 doing exactly 100 km/h on the speedo and refusing to move over to allow cars to safely merge, or who when you are in the outer lanes thinks its up to them to police the roads and stop all the "dangerous lawbreakers" out there.

But regardless, as I've said I don't particularly care either way as until we have..

- proper driver education and testing which includes motorway driving
- enforcement which means more than camping out at the side of the motorway/N-road with a speed gun

.. I'll continue to take the actions I consider appropriate to protect my car, passengers and myself - and by extension others - on the free-for-all that is the M50 between these junctions

bigroad

I think what we need is a minimum limit of 80kms on irish motorways when the traffic allows .80 to 90 for the trucks ,next lane should be around the 100 and outer lane 120 or 130.Too many slow bows on these main roads .People tend to sit in the middle lane because they cant be bothered driving properly.Lack of indicator use in this country is also discraceful and should carry 4 points or more ,till the stupids cop on.

mags1962

The issue that I see most and a major cause of the lane hoggers/shobgites in the incorrect lane is that they think that "overtaking" is achieved by going a few kms faster than the person in the left most lane?

mathepac

I had to be in Dublin early this morning to meet & greet at the airport, park cars, etc.

I passed Naas at about 6:10am on the way up to be greeted by three empty lanes leading into Dublin - apart from a coach in lane 2! Not a sinner to be seen for miles and there's yer man planted in the middle lane.

I moved from lane 1 to lane 2 behind him. No movement from yer man. I overtook him using lane 3 and moved back to the middle lane in front of him. I then moved to lane 1, using my indicators appropriately at all times. Not a budge out of yer man. So if you're out there Fly BE reg no 07-G-2331 please learn the rules of the road.

Tall Dublin Curious Guy

So glad I am not the only one to get emotional about this issue. It drives me absolutely crazy particularly late night / early morning on the M50.

We need to take a step back though. In general the quality of motorway driving in Ireland is appalling. My guess is that there are two main reasons. 1) How recently motorways have been introduced in Ireland and 2) The deeply scary level of people driving alone on provisional licences (ie they have not passed their test).

I often resort to flashing lights or undertaking to attempt to make a point but to absolutely no avail.

I lived for 10 years and England and the difference in motorway driving and "manners" is marked. Another example and perhaps a more dangerous one is folks stopped dead at the end of a tailback and NOT putting on their hazard lights. In England it was knee jerk to do this, it is so common.

I am not saying England is perfect - no, but really something needs to be done urgently to educate people how to drive on Motorways and to punish people for not doing so - rather than handing out fines for doing 65 on a 50 limit role on a ghost estate dual carriage in Cherrywood!

Nedbroy

Can I ask a couple of questions re. lane hogging? I've a full license but am still not quite comfortable with motorway driving. I use a particular stretch of the M50 quite regularly spanning 3 exits ie I get on, pass two and exit the 3rd. My questions are, firstly when people here are discussing lane 1,2 and 3 where does that start? As it's the very nearside lane is for the cars taking the next exit or am I wrong? I would get into what looks like lane 2 of 4 and stay there until I need to move left for my exit. Is this bad practice? Also if while in this lane I come up behind a truck or slow moving vehicle going at say 80 Am i obliged to overtake them? or is it okay to continue at their speed. I would avoid overtaking where possible due to a mix of not being too comfortable at high speeds and the shortness of the journey for example theres only half a k to go til i need to get into far left lane and not wanting to weave needlessly through lanes. any advice on correct procedure? trying to improve my driving.

gutteruu

Its simple. Stay in the most left lane unless your passing something. Lane 1 is left lane, lane 3 is most right lane. Lane 1 is the driving lane, all other lanes are only for overtaking.

The fact you have a full licence and don't know this says it all really. (Not blaming you as basic driving skills are not taught or tested in Irish test)

Macy0161

Left hand lane on several stretches of the m50 is an auxiliary lane, rather than the driving lane.

Tall Dublin Curious Guy

Lane 1 is the inside lane, 2 the middle and 3 the outside fast lane. Protocol should be that you stay in the inside lane of the motorway unless you need to overtake as you are travelling faster the traffic in front of you. With regard to the M50 junctions, you should stay in the inside lane between junctions (unless the above applies), then moving out (if required) to allow traffic to merge from the on-ramps / slip roads joining the motorway - as often you will be moving faster than they will be on joining the motorway.

For a lot of people, their "protocol" (lazy) just seems to be hogging the middle or outside lane for their entire journey on the M50 and that is where people get really p&ssed off.

In short, with the exception of allowing people to join the motorway and when you are about to leave the motorway, you should always stay in the inside lane unless you are overtaking, in which case the middle or outside lanes will be appropriate depending on the speed of the prevailing traffic in those lanes.

As a litmus test, if you are driving along, between junctions, in the middle or outside lane and there is nothing in the other lanes for some distance in front of you - then you not driving appropriately.

the uk code reads "Rule 238: You should drive in the left-hand lane if the road ahead is clear. Return to the left-hand lane once you have overtaken all the vehicles or if you are delaying traffic behind you"

Page 143 of the Rules of the Road spells it out clearly http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

Scortho

Nedbroy wrote: »

Can I ask a couple of questions re. lane hogging? I've a full license but am still not quite comfortable with motorway driving. I use a particular stretch of the M50 quite regularly spanning 3 exits ie I get on, pass two and exit the 3rd. My questions are, firstly when people here are discussing lane 1,2 and 3 where does that start? As it's the very nearside lane is for the cars taking the next exit or am I wrong? I would get into what looks like lane 2 of 4 and stay there until I need to move left for my exit. Is this bad practice? Also if while in this lane I come up behind a truck or slow moving vehicle going at say 80 Am i obliged to overtake them? or is it okay to continue at their speed. I would avoid overtaking where possible due to a mix of not being too comfortable at high speeds and the shortness of the journey for example theres only half a k to go til i need to get into far left lane and not wanting to weave needlessly through lanes. any advice on correct procedure? trying to improve my driving.

3 lanes that are driving and then on parts there is an extra lane to allow to merge on and off between some of the busier junctions.

If you are not overtaking you should be driving in lane 1 at all times (keeping left), except coming to a slip road when you should move into lane 2 too allow traffic coming onto the motorway space and time to merge.

If you are driving in lane 1 and you need to overtake the car in front of you, you move out into lane 2, overtake and move back into lane 1.

If the car in land 2 is driving slower than you and you're in lane 1, in which case he's a middle land hogger, or if hes in lane 2 but overtaking really slowly, you move out to lane 3 and overtake him. Maybe beep the horn or show him the finger to vent your anger.
You then move back into lane 1, unless the traffic in lane 1 is driving slower than you are.

You must overtake at all times (provided its safe to do so) except if its slow moving traffic in which case you may undertake or if its unsafe.

Your knowledge of motorway driving worries me. It's something that should be examined in the driving test and should be known, considering motorway rules are in the rules of the road. To be honest you should practice on a dual carriageway as similar rules apply, but the cars don't travel as fast.
Then move onto a motorway when it's quiet.

Nedbroy

Macy0161 wrote: »

Left hand lane on several stretches of the m50 is an auxiliary lane, rather than the driving lane.

I think that's what was throwing me.
So the lane right of that which in this case looks like lane 2 of 4 lanes is the driving lane? (in this case) I think I over complicated the question. Thanks for all input.

GTE

Nedbroy wrote: »

I think that's what was throwing me.
So the lane right of that which in this case looks like lane 2 of 4 lanes is the driving lane? (in this case) I think I over complicated the question. Thanks for all input.

Aye, if you look at the road markings you will see fat (wide) broken lines between this auxiliary lane and most left hand lane of the "standard" 3 lanes of the m50.

Those fat broken lines can also denote a separate road when approaching a junction, reminding motorists that the junction is near. I guess this why the aux lane has those fat broken lines as they eventually lead to a new road at the exit. Anyway, I am getting too into it now haha.