Motorists face €6.50 toll to ease congestion on the M50

BMJD

:eek:

ok a slightly sensationalist headline there, but seriously, do the people who conduct these studies really think that people go for a rush-hour spin on the busiest road in the country for a bit of craic?

MOTORISTS using the country’s busiest road face the prospect of having to pay up to €6.50 in tolls – more than twice the current rate – as part of plans to reduce overcrowding at peak times.

A major study carried out for the National Roads Authority (NRA) recommends says that five tolling points should be introduced across Dublin’s M50 to reduce demand from motorists making short trips.

However, the NRA faces a battle to implement the charges, as with Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has stated his opposition to the plans for now, warning that they would will push traffic into residential areas.

Capacity on the motorway is being severely reduced because of the numbers of people using it, often when there are alternative routes available.

Although the road was upgraded just three years ago at a cost of €1bn, the report says that “safe operational capacity” is being exceeded at peak times on some sections, including the connections with the M1 to the North, the N4 to Lucan and the West and the M7 to Cork and Kildare.

Unless demand is reduced, congestion will be “commonplace” within the next decade, it warns.

The report, which has been seen by the Irish Independent and which will be presented to local councillors today, also says:

- Journey times are becoming less reliable and traffic is moving more slowly because so many vehicles useare using the road.

- Motorists are being forced to queue to enter and exit the motorway at peak times.

- “Safe operational capacity” is being exceeded on some links at peak hours.

- A series of measures is needed to reduce traffic volumes, including varying the speed limit at certain sections and reducing the numbers coming on to the road at key times by having slower traffic signals at junctions.

- Five tolling points should also be introduced – between Ballymun and Finglas; the current point at Blanchardstown; at Parkwest between the N4 and Red Cow; between Firhouse and Ballinteer; and between Sandyford and Carrickmines.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/motorists-face-650-toll-to-ease-congestion-on-the-m50-29322273.html

markad1

Rush hour congestion is nothing like it use to be when the toll bridge was there. Another revenue stream!

MugMugs

All this serves to do is to take the traffic it was built to facilitate and put them back onto the roads it was built to clear.

It's absolutely insane that they are even proposing this.

Radio stations were trying to say this morning that this works in France. It does and it's a relatively fair (albeit expensive) system. But their Motor Tax is put onto fuel & tolls so it's apples and oranges.

ironclaw

between Sandyford and Carrickmines

Well, that's the N11 between Cherrywood and Sandyford a complete right off. I wouldn't mind if they wanted to toll if it was something sensible like 50c per journey. But it won't be. If its €6.50 to travel the length of the M50, I'll just take the long scenic route. From say Bray to Dublin Airport, its 46km by the M50 and 33km by the N11 / town. So on a decent day with light traffic, there's no saving to be made other than time.

Utter lunacy from the NRA.

MugMugs

ironclaw wrote: »

So on a decent day with light traffic, there's no saving to be made other than time.

The proposal is for peak times therefore one can only assume that light traffic in town will mean it is not a peak time and the charge won't be in place.

wexie

That makes perfect sense!!!

Let's build a road to take congestion out of the city...
oh...it's working but now the road is congested as we planned ahead about 8 days!!!
I know....lets stop people using the road ....problem solved.

Eeejits wouldn't think of just building a decent road no? With decent on and off ramps that can take the volume it was supposedly 'designed' to cope with and then maybe having a think about ...you know....traffic volumes and how they might grow? Rather than having to upgrade the road every couple of years?

ironclaw

MugMugs wrote: »

The proposal is for peak times therefore one can only assume that light traffic in town will mean it is not a peak time and the charge won't be in place.

Fair enough but if they toll from say 8am to 10am, and 4pm to 7pm, then they'll still toll in the off peak hours at a lower rate. Any rate whatsoever would put a large majority of people off. If they want to toll, introduce a congestion charge and let people skirt the city by the M50.

And I call BS on the it would only affect 4,400 cars, how many people would be affected by 4 out of 5 of the tolls? Convenient how they left that statistic out.

slavetothegrind

Purely revenue driven, backlogs at peak times caused by poor planning and road design.

N7 backlog will go once they complete the newlands overpass, something that should have been done alongside the improvement works

N4 is probably always going to be a problem because of the liffey valley exit so close

I use the m50 a lot as my work involves movingaround a lot, i just couldn't afford multiple tolls all day, i'll stick to the back roads as will most people who drive in a work capacity.
Then you can have your M50 back to half capacity and the rest of dublin jammed up

I have a little faith in Leo not letting this madness happen, only a little.......

Davidth88

I have never ever heard anything more stupid


Great idea , lets toll the ring road that keeps the city moving .


Stupid green politics alive and well.

I will tell you what will happen , they will toll this , and half of the suburbs of West Dublin will grind to a halt.

If you don't believe this , try watching the trucks dodging the toll down the back road from Maynooth -> Dunboyne

Crazy idea.

listermint

Story leaked from NRA - Minister Vradkar comes in like a shining night shooting down the 'proposed' plans.

You would almost think it was designed to make Fine Gaelar look good. But sure they wouldnt do that now would they...

munchkin_utd

Davidth88 wrote: »

I have never ever heard anything more stupid

Great idea , lets toll the ring road that keeps the city moving .
Stupid green politics alive and well.
I will tell you what will happen , they will toll this , and half of the suburbs of West Dublin will grind to a halt.
If you don't believe this , try watching the trucks dodging the toll down the back road from Maynooth -> Dunboyne
Crazy idea.

I have to agree that it could be a mad idea, but the problem is cars and not trucks and people nipping round a couple of junctions rather than people doing longer trips to the airport.

It'd be fair enough if it was capped somehow to ease the cost on folks making longer journeys.
Or even just have it the same cost as the current toll on the westlink but spread out over multiple junctions rather than all at once.

Plus obviously you would want trucks to pay no more than they currently are as you really dont want artics snaking about the suburbs avoiding the motorway.

Heroditas

Davidth88 wrote: »

I will tell you what will happen , they will toll this , and half of the suburbs of West Dublin will grind to a halt.

If you don't believe this , try watching the trucks dodging the toll down the back road from Maynooth -> Dunboyne

Yep, go and sit in the main street in Lucan for a day and you'll get a good idea of what will happen.

shedweller

They're at it again! It's got nothing to do with congestion and everything to do with raising revenue for those that shall not be mentioned!
The junkies junkies bastads.

knucklehead6

are they not talking about dividing up the existing toll over the 5 proposed toll stations?
As in, instead of having only one place where you pay anything from €2.10 to €3.10 whether you are driving from Lucan to Blanchardstown or Bray to the airport, that you pay per section? If they divided up the current fare over the 5 sections it would probably make more money as you will get people who join at Lucan heading south, or at blanchardstown heading north who currently don't pay a cent, but hitting them for 45c (for the tag holder) 55c( for the vid account holder) and 65c for the non account holder per stretch would add up without being extortionate.

Stallingrad

The M50 moves a lot more smoothly since the toll bridge was dumped, and there have to be thousands of fewer journeys everyday thanks to the big R. I'd say that is what is motivating this, tolls are down. But the gantries are all up awaiting installation of tolling, I'd say i's only a matter of time.

Henry Ford III

Make it an even €10. Tidy.

listermint

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Make it an even €10. Tidy.

Better yet,

have commuters park their cars up at junctions and have them walk it.

larchill

This was mooted last year. Varadkar isn't in favour, but then he won't be around for ever ... Just typical, with freeflow up & running so well: lets find a way to screw it up! :P The question is, where else will the traffic go? We don't have any other cross or circular routes? The North & South Circular Roads are only streets. The mind boggles.

00833827

shedweller wrote: »

The junkies junkies bastads.

Yeah! i like ur style Simey O'D!! ;-)

jimgoose

listermint wrote: »

Better yet,

have commuters park their cars up at junctions and have them walk it.

Aye. You could call it "Park And Get Rode."

KTRIC

Grand stuff, more room for me and my toll free bike

Red Kev

Dublin's biggest problem is that it doesn't have a public transport system worth mentioning and as long as this is the case any form of tolling on the M50 is madness.

Tolls exist in many countries but in countries such as France, Spain and Italy where motorways are tolled there is no toll near urban centres as decades of experience have shown that it drives cars off the road and onto smaller local roads, of course Ireland is throwing all this to the wind and seems to know better than what other countries have been doing since the 1960's.

The most ironic part of this is the permanent amount of advertisemnets we get from the RSA telling us to slow down, don't drink and drive etc etc, yet the NRA are going to increase the amount of traffic on smaller link roads thus increasing the chances of fatal accidents and at the same time are moving cars off motorways, the safest roads that we have.

Chris_Heilong

How much more of this tom foolery must we endure, since the recession people have less money than they ever did and yet things are getting more expensive...

gallag

Cant believe how much motor tax you guys pay then tolls aswell, crazy.

NobodyImportant

Public transport is so good around the M50 there should be no need to drive it. Gone are the days when if you needed to get from Sandyford to Blanchardstown you had to go through town and change buses. The new Metro line which runs the centre of the M50 and has feeder buses going either side to get you to work are a joy to commute on....

Chris_Heilong

NobodyImportant wrote: »

Public transport is so good around the M50 there should be no need to drive it. Gone are the days when if you needed to get from Sandyford to Blanchardstown you had to go through town and change buses. The new Metro line which runs the centre of the M50 and has feeder buses going either side to get you to work are a joy to commute on....

Macy0161

The toll on the M50 was to pay for the Westlink bridge, hence it's position. Now it's morphed into the "M50 toll".

kdevitt

Red Kev wrote: »

Tolls exist in many countries but in countries such as France, Spain and Italy where motorways are tolled there is no toll near urban centres as decades of experience have shown that it drives cars off the road and onto smaller local roads,

Drive in Sydney and there are tolls all around urban centres - hasn't driven cars off the roads (although you have no option really on certain routes). I paid $80 a month minimum in tolls in Sydney even though I didn't commute to work and only drove twice a week to football and back.

I'd imagine the impact to usage of the M50 would be minimal - its a vital artery for the city now. Everytime the price has gone up people have said they'll abandon it, and they haven't. I'd also imagine the amount of people who would be subject to the full whack of tolls by driving the length of the road would be minimal too, being a smaller subset of the entire user base, but I guess the study will clarify that.

I've no issue with the toll on the M50 being spread along the route - but think it should be the current toll split along the full distance. So you might be hit for 70c for going from the M1 to the Blanch exit for example. That obviously won't happen though!

Tazz T

I think when they say 'congestion', they're referring to 'wallet' and 'pocket' congestion.

endacl

Deadly. Great news. Where do I sign up? I've been waiting ages for the gubberment to figure out a way for me to get rid of this mountain o' cash. This country is so cheap to live in I was actually getting quite embarrassed. I plan to spend my days off driving up and down Ireland's premier highway! What'll they spend the dosh on? Voting machines, I hope!

What a bloody stupid idea. Didn't we buy that tolled section back of them at some point?

Viper_JB

Your Move....



Motorist!

Jem123

Where will this end?? :eek:

Viper_JB

Jem123 wrote: »

Where will this end?? :eek:

End goal seems to be to get everyone walking with no viable alternative, except for the rich, but they'll probably start tolling footpaths then.

Bummer1234

This idea has to be the most ridiculous i have heard in a long time, I travel it a good bit myself to get to work and its dear enough let alone allowing this.

Just have one question on this,Is there a group that protest these kinda things,I know haulage companies would flip but is there any car people that would say hold blockages to protest if it did come in?

CelticRambler

MugMugs wrote: »

Radio stations were trying to say this morning that this works in France. It does and it's a relatively fair (albeit expensive) system. But their Motor Tax is put onto fuel & tolls so it's apples and oranges.

Don't know where you or these radio stations got your info, but you're both completely wrong. Motorways in France are almost all toll-free around urban areas specifically to keep traffic off local roads, and that applies equally to people making short journey "ring road" type journeys.

There is no motor tax in France, neither on vehicles nor fuel - which is currently around 10ct/litre cheaper than Ireland, and our motorways are pretty uncongested except for holiday weekends. You can't price people off (or onto) the roads unless you give them a viable alternative.

urajoke

Increase capacity by 50% by getting the middle laners to move the **** over to lane 1.

The drivers from palmerstown to Blanch and return subsidise the rest of you to use the new M50 stop whining. The money raised by the concession cover maintenance for the entire M50.

Very few drivers however will be happy to pay a huge sum to drive from bray to the airport and WILL divert. It would make more sense to have the €2.10 cover the entire length.

In France toll roads stop before cities so city commuters WILL use the road reducing local congestion not the other way round.

jimgoose

urajoke wrote: »

...In France toll roads stop before cities so city commuters WILL use the road reducing local congestion not the other way round.

Indeed. Whereas in Ireland you can't go from one end of Fermoy to the other without being herded through a toll-station. Wir fahren auf der Autobahn!

Buffman

Looks like more politicans are getting in on Leo's act! http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0605/454681-m50-tolls/

Tanáiste Eamon Gilmore earlier said the Government would have to look at alternatives to the NRA proposal for new M50 tolls.
Mr Gilmore said motorists are already hard pressed without further toll charges.
It has been reported that motorists would have to pay up to €6.50 if the new tolls were introduced.
Labour TD Seán Kenny called on NRA to rethink the proposals.

Sounds very pro-active of them, until you remember that the goverment runs the NRA!

Looks like they'll go back to the drawing board for another tax for any of us who dare to work or live around the M50.

urajoke

urajoke wrote: »

Increase capacity by 50% by getting the middle laners to move the **** over to lane 1.

Meanwhile in the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22770064

Mycroft H

Leo on the RTE news there basically debunking the entire idea including the multi point tolls on the M50. Thank god.

PauloMN

What happened the initial plan i.e. to split the existing toll into 4 multi tolls of around 70c each? Seemed a bit more reasonable. Where did this €6.50 figure come from? Greedy bastards.

Insane proposal, and it will drive (excuse the pun) people back onto R roads.

testicle

MugMugs wrote: »

Radio stations were trying to say this morning that this works in France. It does and it's a relatively fair (albeit expensive) system. But their Motor Tax is put onto fuel & tolls so it's apples and oranges.

And autoroutes in France are free around cities.

urajoke

PauloMN wrote: »

What happened the initial plan i.e. to split the existing toll into 4 multi tolls of around 70c each? Seemed a bit more reasonable. Where did this €6.50 figure come from? Greedy bastards.

Insane proposal, and it will drive (excuse the pun) people back onto R roads.

Five sections each at €1.30 apparently.

Mycroft H

urajoke wrote: »

Five sections each at €1.30 apparently.

Not going to happen! Minister of Transport has already shelved the increased toll and the 6.50 toll.

urajoke

BX 19 wrote: »

Not going to happen! Minister of Transport has already shelved the increased toll and the 6.50 toll.

Didn't say it was, I was answering a question in the quoted post in my post.

Max Power1

urajoke wrote: »

Five sections each at €1.30 apparently.

Considering the 1 section is 2.10 now, isnt 6.50 or 5.20 a bit of a jump?

MugMugs

CelticRambler wrote: »

Don't know where you or these radio stations got your info, but you're both completely wrong. Motorways in France are almost all toll-free around urban areas specifically to keep traffic off local roads, and that applies equally to people making short journey "ring road" type journeys.

There is no motor tax in France, neither on vehicles nor fuel - which is currently around 10ct/litre cheaper than Ireland, and our motorways are pretty uncongested except for holiday weekends. You can't price people off (or onto) the roads unless you give them a viable alternative.

I was moreso referring to Southbound journeys from my experience.

I was always under the illusion that Fuel did have motor tax applied.

gurramok

The plan would have affected me and yes I would have avoided the toll between Ballymun and Finglas and the other one at Blanch. I'd have no problem to drive through the suburbs of Glasnevin/Finglas to avoid the toll which are empty of congestion now. Totally stupid idea from the NRA.

HurtLocker

Never a good sign when the government leaks something like this.

Leak its going to double. Come out say it won't increase that much. Average joe sighs in relief. Later the government increases it by €1. People shrug and say it could have been worse, they wanted to increase it by €3. In the end the motorist is going to be f*cked some more anyway.

wexie

MugMugs wrote: »

I was moreso referring to Southbound journeys from my experience.

I was always under the illusion that Fuel did have motor tax applied.

Yeah but if we had toll roads like the ones in France, with the facilities like they have in France, I think you'd find a lot fewer people bitching about them.

Decent roads with a 130km/h speed limit. Picnic areas (with clean toilets!!) and petrol stations every 20 ish km....

Here in Ireland you can drive the lenght and breadth of the country and not even encounter a bin by the side of the roads, never mind a toilet that's cleaned twice a day.

Joe 90

MugMugs wrote: »

I was moreso referring to Southbound journeys from my experience.

I was always under the illusion that Fuel did have motor tax applied.

Yes, the 10c/litre cheaper would only suggest slightly less tax, not no tax.