Vet killed my puppy

cocobubbles

Hi all,

Just looking for some advice. My puppy caught her paw in our sitting room door last week and broke her paw. We panicked and took her to the closest vet (which wasn't the one we usually go to as it's in a different town) We thought it would be a straightforward procedure - x-ray, bandage and send her home. He told us he had to keep her in overnight as it was late in the evening and he couldn't anesthetise her straight away in case she was in shock. He looked for 130 euro upfront which was ok. He told us he would have to put her under anaesthetic to x-ray her but we never signed a consent form and he never informed us of any risks.
The next day he rang me to say that he had x-rayed her but put a cast on her paw but she swallowed some of the anaesthetic and had inhaled it into her lungs. He said he got most of it out and that she was ok but he wanted to keep her in for observation and all going well we would have her back at lunch time the next day.
We heard nothing the next day so I rang him in the afternoon to see if we could collect her and he tells me she's dying from aspiration pneumonia! He said he knew at 8am that morning that she was dying and he never rang us! I asked could we go and see her only to find out that he had moved her to his second clinic (which he did without our permission) which was a half hour drive away (we later found out that it was during that journey that she vomited and inhaled stuff into her lungs) We arrived and there was no sign of him and the clinic was closed. I rang him and he said that he was on lunch for the last two hours. He turned up about 20 mins later and when we went in our little puppy was dead. So basically to sum it all up, we never signed a consent form, we were never informed of any risks involved, we didn't give permission for her to be moved, we weren't told she was dying and she was left in an empty clinic by herself to dye for 2 hours or more. We then looked into the aspiration pneumonia and found that a dog should not be left lying on its side for more than 2 hours (which she was) and it looked like she had choked to death on her own vomit. Does anyone know if I could take legal action for medical negligence? Thanks

SillyMangoX

I think in this case yes you should report the vet, under no circumstances should they have anesthetised your pup without consent, it's the first thing that should be done on admission! I find it odd that he said that is swallowed some of the anaesthetic as i personally don't know of any given orally (could be wrong on this). Here is a link to the veterinary council of Ireland on disciplinary procedures, I don't know would it be much help. http://www.vci.ie/Disciplinary/ So sorry for your loss!

Dodd

The first thing I would do is report that vet to whatever board looks after vets.
To try make sure this does not happen to others by that vet.

Your story sounds unreal but if true you could post in the legal part of the forum.

I will post a link.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

cocobubbles

Believe me, its real. I couldn't make something like that up, everyone I've told has been in disbelief because its so far fetched that she went in with a broken paw (and was otherwise perfectly healthy) and ended up dead

SillyMangoX

Just our of curiosity how old was the pup? Young dogs sometimes don't do well under anaesthetic unfortunately, but still, this is a risk that should have been presented to you by the veterinary staff.

cocobubbles

SillyMangoX wrote: »

I think in this case yes you should report the vet, under no circumstances should they have anesthetised your pup without consent, it's the first thing that should be done on admission! I find it odd that he said that is swallowed some of the anaesthetic as i personally don't know of any given orally (could be wrong on this). Here is a link to the veterinary council of Ireland on disciplinary procedures, I don't know would it be much help. http://www.vci.ie/Disciplinary/ So sorry for your loss!

Thanks SillyMangoX I rang the vet council on Friday so they are sending me out forms to launch an investigation. I want to take legal action, not for compensation but to ensure that this never happens to anyone again.

cocobubbles

SillyMangoX wrote: »

Just our of curiosity how old was the pup? Young dogs sometimes don't do well under anaesthetic unfortunately, but still, this is a risk that should have been presented to you by the veterinary staff.

She was 8 and a half months old and in perfect health. We were never warned of any risks and I rang a few vets after she passed away to find out what the procedure is for anaesthetic and they all said I would have had to sign a consent form

SillyMangoX

At 8 1/2 months I would think they would be fairly stable under anesthetic, pups get neutered at 6 months so it would be a safe age. The other vets were absolutely right that you should have signed consent, as with that it waves all rights of taking a case!

anniehoo

OP i am so sorry for your loss but:

cocobubbles wrote: »

we never signed a consent form and he never informed us of any risks.

Every single vet worth their salt gets an owner's consent form before anaesthesia administration.Before they even accept an animal for surgery a consent form should be signed. It's not always valid in court, but it's the first basic step that is done by a practitioner.

wrote:

he tells me she's dying from aspiration pneumonia!
He said he knew at 8am that morning that she was dying and he never rang us! I asked could we go and see her only to find out that he had moved her to his second clinic (which he did without our permission) which was a half hour drive away (we later found out that it was during that journey that she vomited and inhaled stuff into her lungs) We arrived and there was no sign of him and the clinic was closed. I rang him and he said that he was on lunch for the last two hours. He turned up about 20 mins later and when we went in our little puppy was dead.

No animal is transferred to another practice under these conditions end of without full compliance from an owner.

wrote:

So basically to sum it all up, we never signed a consent form, we were never informed of any risks involved, we didn't give permission for her to be moved, we weren't told she was dying and she was left in an empty clinic by herself to dye for 2 hours or more.

As above, anaesthesia, no matter how small the operation has a huge risk and every vet should make this clear.

wrote:

Does anyone know if I could take legal action for medical negligence? Thanks

All complaints regarding medical malpractice should be directed to The Veterinary Council of Ireland.

cocobubbles

Thanks Anniehoo, do you know would the vet council take legal action if they see fit or should I look into it?

anniehoo

cocobubbles wrote: »

Thanks Anniehoo, do you know would the vet council take legal action if they see fit or should I look into it?

The VCI are there for a reason.No vet wants to be reported to them. If they don't take it further, it's up to you then legally wise.

KERSPLAT!

Christ that's heartbreaking, sorry to hear that OP hope you get somewhere with the Vet Council.

Senna

Really sorry to hear this story, I have nothing to add that will help, but it sounds like complete negligence and a real lack of care/respect for the poor puppy.

irelandspurs

The vet wasn't in Kildare or Laois was it?

maggiepip

Thats a terrible story, really sorry OP. I dont understand how your dog could have inhaled the anaesthetic, thats given into the vein IV...I think theres also an anaesthetic gas (I dont know if this is commonly used - I think not) but that would be a gas the dog should inhale. Its bizzare. The attitude of your vet and the way the whole situation was handled is appalling, really really bad.

cocobubbles

@Irelandspurs no the vet in was north county Dublin...
@maggiepip I'm not even sure what the vet meant when he said that. I think what happened is that during the transfer from one clinic to another she vomited and inhaled some back into her lungs. He never even told us he was transferring her because if he had, I would have told him not to because she always got car sick. He never suggested a post mortem either and he disposed of her body a.s.a.p. because I rang him 24 hours after her death to see if we could get the body (to send it to UCD for a free post mortem) and he had already sent her for cremation.

toadfly

So sorry to hear this happened.

Surely cremation needs to be signed off on by the owner too? Sounds very dodgy.

Merl1n

cocobubbles I think you should name the vet to stop this happening to someone else

I would then look at taking legal action against the vet and or the practice

muddypaws

cocobubbles wrote: »

@Irelandspurs no the vet in was north county Dublin...
@maggiepip I'm not even sure what the vet meant when he said that. I think what happened is that during the transfer from one clinic to another she vomited and inhaled some back into her lungs. He never even told us he was transferring her because if he had, I would have told him not to because she always got car sick. He never suggested a post mortem either and he disposed of her body a.s.a.p. because I rang him 24 hours after her death to see if we could get the body (to send it to UCD for a free post mortem) and he had already sent her for cremation.

Was she microchipped? if so, please inform the company that if her chip details are changed, you must be informed immediately. the reason I say this is that there was another poster on here a good while ago that had a similar scenario, the vet said the dog was pts, then it turned up with another family somewhere else. I don't mean to upset you or get your hopes up at all, but just something else for you to think about in this whole sorry tale I'm afraid.

So sorry for all that you're going through.

toadfly

Merl1n wrote: »

cocobubbles I think you should name the vet to stop this happening to someone else

I would then look at taking legal action against the vet and or the practice

I dont think its advised to name and shame if there is going to be legal action?

Toulouse

Merl1n wrote: »

cocobubbles I think you should name the vet to stop this happening to someone else

I would then look at taking legal action against the vet and or the practice

Do not name the vet or practice. In the event of legal action being taken it's best not to discuss too many of the finer details on an online forum.

But OP do send in your complaint to the VCI and should you get no joy there, crucify the fecker in court.

cocobubbles

Merl1n wrote: »

cocobubbles I think you should name the vet to stop this happening to someone else

I would then look at taking legal action against the vet and or the practice

I won't name the place for now until I hear back from a few solicitors. <snip>

DBB

Bloody hell cocobubbles,
With each post you write about what happened to your pup, and specifically the behaviour of that vet, the harder my jaw hits the floor.
That is utterly outrageous conduct.
Definitely make a complaint with the VCI, I have found them to be pretty good at taking complaints seriously and following through on them... There are a couple of vets I see mentioned on here from time to time who have been sanctioned for far less than what you have described.
I'm sure you have already, but if not, make detailed notes now, with times, dates, who said what etc. Contemporaneous notes may be very useful to you down the road.
I am so sorry for you and your pup. A dreadful experience.

ABajaninCork

TillyGirl wrote: »

I dont think its advised to name and shame if there is going to be legal action?

So very sorry for your loss. I couldn't bear to read after the first line, but got the gist from the following posts.

Under no circumstances should you name this vet whilst legal action is taking place. In fact, maybe you should consider not posting any more on this thread, unless the information is very general IYKWIM.

Run free little one...:(

cocobubbles

muddypaws wrote: »

Was she microchipped? if so, please inform the company that if her chip details are changed, you must be informed immediately. the reason I say this is that there was another poster on here a good while ago that had a similar scenario, the vet said the dog was pts, then it turned up with another family somewhere else. I don't mean to upset you or get your hopes up at all, but just something else for you to think about in this whole sorry tale I'm afraid.

So sorry for all that you're going through.

Ya she was microchipped but I had the unfortunate experience of seeing her stiff little body lying in the cage. He fecked off on lunch and left her to die in the clinic by herself and if we hadn't contacted him we wouldn't have even known...

ABajaninCork

cocobubbles wrote: »

Ya she was microchipped but I had the unfortunate experience of seeing her stiff little body lying in the cage. He fecked off on lunch and left her to die in the clinic by herself and if we hadn't contacted him we wouldn't have even known...

Bastard!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

DBB

Merl1n wrote: »

cocobubbles I think you should name the vet to stop this happening to someone else

I would then look at taking legal action against the vet and or the practice

Under no circumstances should this practice be named, shamed, or made obvious who or where it is.
This could prejudice the OP's case, and it would almost certainly result in this site being threatened with legal action.
The facts of this case have not yet been investigated nor proven. Until they are, there is to be no attempt to identify this practice on-thread.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Knine

Interesting that the vet was in North County Dublin as had an emergency last week and was not at all impressed with the aftercare. Was also in North County Dublin.

PucaMama

can you pm me the vets name so i can avoid them

samdavis

Beautiful dog, so sorry to hear of your loss x

Stella Virgo

do NOT public name the vet here.you WILL lose the case if you do.Do not even private pm the name to anyone,again if the vet hears of it,spreading rumors etc you will lose.mention the area if you like.somebody here will know the vet and tell him.

DBB

Stella Virgo wrote: »

do NOT public name the vet here.you WILL lose the case if you do.Do not even private pm the name to anyone,again if the vet hears of it,spreading rumors etc you will lose.mention the area if you like.somebody here will know the vet and tell him.

I have already dealt with this issue.
I have already snipped the town which this practice is in. I do not want it mentioned, because this is as good as identifying the vet in question, as well as potentially casting doubt on other vets in the area. I have narrowed it down to one of two vets already because I know what town he practices in.
So no, as already stated in my post above, the area in which he practices is not to be posted, other than keeping it to a vague "north county Dublin".
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

cocobubbles

The sooner I get those forms from the vet council the better...she said the process can take weeks though

Fitzg

I'm so sorry for your loss OP, this is shocking. I wish you the best for the court case and thanks also for sharing your experience with us.

DBB

Mod note: regrettably, I've had to remove the picture of cocobubbles' dog as it potentially makes her identifiable to the vet, should his attention be drawn to this thread.
For fear of something like this prejudicing her case, the photo was removed. Can I just, at this point, ask all posters to think carefully about what they post here, for the same reason.
I don't want to close the thread as OP will get help and support from it, as long as nothing that is said on it could be held as prejudicial.
Thanks,
DBB

monkeysnapper

This whole thing stinks to high heaven . If everything happened the way the op has told it this vet is in deep deep trouble . And maybe knows it to . Why els move the dog and get rid of the evidence quickly.

But there's always 2 sides of every story so op needs to take this all the way and prepare for a long drawn out battle.

I'm absolutely disgusted and thank god I have a great vet that I trust.

Good luck op

cocobubbles

Thanks @monkeysnapper and thanks to everyone for yer support. vet council forms arrived in the post today so I have a busy afternoon ahead!

irelandspurs

irelandspurs wrote: »

The vet wasn't in Kildare or Laois was it?

Grand just sounded similar to a vet local here.

Pumpkinseeds

I'm so sorry about your puppy, that is an awful thing to happen. I hope the vet is held to account for his actions or lack of them.

tazwaz

i'm so sorry for your loss op, its unbelievable cruel on you. that vet really deserves to be reported and i'll say you wont rest until its done.
just 2 quick things, what breed of dog was it, maybe dont answer that just in case, the reason i ask is theres a greyhound rescue near me and the woman running it is very picky about what vet she'll let anesthetize her dogs as they can have a bad reaction to it.
2nd thing and i'm open to correction here, my dog had to be pts and i wanted him to be cremated but the vet had to hold on to him for a few days before he was collected, maybe dublin is different as in theres more frequent collections?

boomerang

SillyMangoX wrote: »

Young dogs sometimes don't do well under anaesthetic unfortunately

Not in my experience, nor according to any of the material I've read?

SillyMangoX

boomerang wrote: »

Not in my experience, nor according to any of the material I've read?

They are considered 'high risk' patients under anaesthesia, same as geriatric animals or those otherwise comprised. That is animals under 3-4 months of age, any older than that and it would be normal! They can have problems with hypothermia and metabolising anaesthetic agents, and have problems regulating glucose and blood pressure.

KERSPLAT!

Even if that was the case there seems to be a number of things that the vet has done that seems out of the ordinary. I.E, transporting without permission, cremation, leaving the dog alone to die, knowing the dog was going to die and not informing the owner, etc.

terryduff12

So sorry to hear about your pup, that lad shouldn`t be in practice and if it happened to me im afraid he would be walking with a limp for the rest of his days.

DBB

terryduff12 wrote: »

So sorry to hear about your pup, that lad shouldn`t be in practice and if it happened to me im afraid he would be walking with a limp for the rest of his days.

Whilst I know the actions as reported of this vet are cause for justifiable anger, can I remind all posters that advocating violence or aggression towards him is not on. It is also against the forum charter.
There is due process to be followed.
Again, I understand that this is a highly emotive thread, but please rein in talk of retribution.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

fits

So sorry to hear this.

My whippet was anaesthetized with no time to fast properly after an accident last week and I was so worried about it. Just goes to show that it is very risky, and excellent care is so important. Despite his being in shock, I drove the extra distance to get to a vet I know I can trust but it was still very risky.

I hope that you get some answers from Veterinary Council.

LittleMissDiva

I'm so sorry for your loss cocobubbles

boomerang

SillyMangoX wrote: »

They are considered 'high risk' patients under anaesthesia, same as geriatric animals or those otherwise comprised. That is animals under 3-4 months of age, any older than that and it would be normal! They can have problems with hypothermia and metabolising anaesthetic agents, and have problems regulating glucose and blood pressure.

Have to disagree, so long as anaesthetic monitoring is vigilant, risk of hypothermia is addressed by providing supplementary heat, the fasting time before surgery is reduced and they are given food once standing (Give atipamazole to reverse effects of medetomidine so recovery is faster and they can eat sooner).

Totally off topic I accept, but I think a lot of vets are still wary of paediatric surgery, and they needn't be. If an owner wants to neuter their pet, it is nuts to wait until six months of age when performing the surgery a month or two earlier carriers no greater risk, and waiting carries the risk that the animal will have a season and possibly get caught. I've been involved in arranging neutering for literally hundreds of kittens between 12 and 16 weeks of age, and we've never lost a single one!

ETA: Part of the "six months" hoary old chestnut stems from a time when anaesthetics were not as safe and sophisticated as they are now. Unfortunately most vets are afraid to risk the surgery earlier than six months when private clients are involved, but will happily do so for rescue groups. One vet in Cork that I know of is safely neutering feral kittens from five weeks of age! While I think that's extreme, it does go to show that more veterinary professionals need to go beyond the received wisdom and read the body of research out there in support of paediatric spay/neuter.

SillyMangoX

I know that it can be done in younger animals, particularly in emergency situations, but in a case like this where the vet seems to be imcompitant at monitoring an extremely ill patient I certainly wouldn't recommend them anesthetize a patient younger than 6 months! But again, I haven't done much more research into it than what I have been taught in college, and what I've read in the veterinary nursing manual. Don't want to drag this any more off topic, especially since it's irrelevant with the OPs pups age!

jimf

slightly off topic as well but in a case of a bitch needing a c section and needs to be anaesthetized how dangerous is this surely there is a cross over from bitch to pups yet most pups are perfect shortly afterwards or is there something im missing

SillyMangoX

jimf wrote: »

slightly off topic as well but in a case of a bitch needing a c section and needs to be anaesthetized how dangerous is this surely there is a cross over from bitch to pups yet most pups are perfect shortly afterwards or is there something im missing

It does cross over to the pups but not as much as getting it themselves, a lot of pups are born very groggy after the c section and some need oxygen and a medication to revive them. Not in all cases but I've seen it done more than once.