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LCU blog discontinued

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  • Sparks wrote: »
    Speaking as a mod..
    I think that's my point on moderating here, anyone could be doing it with any slant they felt like putting on it. For all I know you could be Peter, Jonathan, Colm, John or (God forbid) me.




  • I think that's my point on moderating here, anyone could be doing it with any slant they felt like putting on it. For all I know you could be Peter, Jonathan, Colm, John or (God forbid) me.
    <--- points to own photo, name and other profile data.
    That's rather a lot to fake.
    However, again, we're back to the same point - either the LCU/ICU don't want the legal liability associated with the editorial control, or they want the editorial control associated with the legal liability. So long as both publication of news and open discussion are wanted, the two are tied together.

    I think I did suggest above that the publication of news and the open discussion don't actually have to be done in the same place or controlled by the same editorial board, if that helps with thinking about a solution any.




  • Aha, using the desktop version of this site I can see your name. Am I right in saying that you neither play Leinster leagues nor are a member of the ICU?




  • At the moment, correct.




  • Am I right in saying that you neither play Leinster leagues nor are a member of the ICU?
    Sparks wrote: »
    At the moment, correct.

    I'll leave it at that.


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  • I'll leave it at that.

    20 years away from the game, I finally get back into it a few months ago, help start up a club at work, start going to my local club a month or so ago to play there and try out for the league teams come September. I've also gone through the whole "boards or not" meme from both within and without a national governing body, and I've been doing the moderator thing on here for a few years now. But I suppose you're right, what could my opinion possibly be worth?




  • As I said I'll leave it at that although point 2 in my earlier post does jump to mind.




  • What, this point? -
    There are posters on this forum who get involved with any and every thread they come across. Debate would not be helped by this interference that would inevitably happen here.

    That's a bit silly. The discussion here is mainly over issues of moderation, and whether boards.ie is suitable in that regard. Sparks is clearly an experienced boards.ie poster and moderator (and a chess player); his views are very relevant. And given you don't play Leinster Leagues at the moment either...




  • cdeb wrote: »
    What, this point? -



    That's a bit silly. The discussion here is mainly over issues of moderation, and whether boards.ie is suitable in that regard. Sparks is clearly an experienced boards.ie poster and moderator (and a chess player); his views are very relevant. And given you don't play Leinster Leagues at the moment either...

    I absolutely did not say that Sparks views are not relevant. He is clearly an enthusiastic chap, over 30,000 posts on here allude to that.

    Ciaran was excellently placed to be a moderator due to his knowledge of the sport in Ireland. I do not think we should replace him with someone who is at the opposite end of the chess knowledge spectrum.

    I reiterate that in the absence of a speedy ICU proposal let's go for an unmoderated board with solid user verification and the ability for the members to remove troublemakers by group vote. This Boards.ie forum certainly does not allow that and it's (mostly) non chess playing moderators should not be given control over our group. Remember once we start down this road it is hard to go back so we should try to get it right.




  • I absolutely did not say that Sparks views are not relevant.
    You fairly clearly implied it. Once you found that he wasn't an ICU member or a currently active player, your reaction was an immediate refusal to engage, dismissing him as someone who just gets involved on any topic. That's silly.

    I've no particular problems with either route - forming a forum (not a blog; that's where the problems came from previously, I think) or staying on here. I don't know do the chess section mods here post in the section - maybe they could be asked for their views. Yes, it'd be good to have an LCU rep put in as mod as well, but I don't think it's essential.


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  • Well folks i am a registered member and regular player and i also do not feel the pressing need to go under a pseudonym shall we get past the yah boo stage and post a few practical suggestions for setting up a new post/forum possibly under i c u authority?




  • cdeb wrote: »
    I don't know do the chess section mods here post in the section - maybe they could be asked for their views. Yes, it'd be good to have an LCU rep put in as mod as well, but I don't think it's essential.
    There aren't chess mod for this forum, rather mods for the strategy grouping.

    Here on boards mods aren't looked at to be authorities on the subject, their job is to facilitate discussion rather than direct it. It helps if you've knowledge of the subject matter, but the users are stakeholders also and we look at them to do their part by alerting us to issues.




  • Ah, ok. So at the bottom of the chess forum, it says this -

    Forum Mods: cherryghost, Rev Hellfire
    Category Mods: EnterNow, FutureGuy, Sierra Oscar

    What's the difference between a forum mod and a category mod?

    I assumed you and cherryghost were chess forum mods, while the other three were Games forum mods, including all sub-forums. Is this not the case?




  • Interesting, none of the usual.compulsive blog contributor types, from leinster chess blog? Perhaps your all away this weekend ? Is it possible to have a word from anybody on the i c u executive? Anybody there ?




  • Well folks i am a registered member and regular player and i also do not feel the pressing need to go under a pseudonym shall we get past the yah boo stage and post a few practical suggestions for setting up a new post/forum possibly under i c u authority?

    +1 for the ICU to take this up and run with it. If we can force people to post under their own names (not possible on here) then the completely crazy stuff will be kept at bay.




  • How do you force someone to post under their own name and always know that it's them posting and not someone who guessed/was given their username/password?
    And if (say) the ICU sets up such an "unmoderated" (it really is moderated if you've got posting policies, its just not moderated enough to keep you safe from lawsuits) forum, and they don't catch such a thing happening, how open are they to be sued for allowing defamatory postings by the person being impersonated?

    I think perhaps you haven't fully thought through what you're proposing.




  • It is you who are confused sparks. Both the i c u and the l c u are unincorporated body s that is , they do not exist in law. Only the mod of the blog is open to legal action . And this problem could be solved by using some unemployed member of the union, of which i should think, there are quite a few.




  • Both the i c u and the l c u are unincorporated body s
    So, (a) that's a horrible way to set up any NGB or RGB (this is a topic that arose in other sports before); and (b) I wouldn't bet my house (and a lot more money, given the state of the property market these days) on a judge in a defamation case saying that the mod of the LCU blog had nothing to do with the LCU and that they can't be sued because they have no assets, when the LCU has them as an officer/member and is setting moderation policy (if they're not setting policy, then there's no liability... but also no control).

    edit: none of which explains how you'll force people to post under their own names (and prove that every post in their names was posted by them).




  • You don't get it is"sparks" the i c u and the l c. Do not exist in law. They are not incorporated in law. I don't know how to. Put it more simply. Thus there is no need to pretend the mod has no connection with them l




  • I do get understand the difference between a limited company and an unincorporated association Bernard, I've been the secretary of both at one time or another; I'm just saying that being unincorporated doesn't do what you think it does in terms of legal liability. The defamation suit would just name the officers of the LCU directly and state that they had a public association and that that association had editorial control over the blog and that therefore they were liable for any suit and before you know where you are, you're up to your eyeballs in solicitors and barristers (and from that position, even if you win you lose because of the cost of defence). As a result, the idea that the LCU could nominate some unemployed member to run the blog and have them as the cut-out doesn't really work (not to mention the ethics of the idea, which stink).


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  • I have been a keen reader of the Irish times for more then 35 years and i cannot recall a single instance of a suit against an unincorporated body as you must know that paper is the"journal of record" in such matters and would be delighted to report any such matters you may be aware that both l c u and the i c u have been threatened with suits over their long existence -all bluff. I however am always willing to learn and if anyone can give me an instance of a informal body like the i c u being successfully sued in Ireland. I will play the dragon defence for my next 10 games. However i don't anticipate having to deviate from my usual French.




  • For effectiveness, the most important thing is that there should be one central forum/blog. I think it's fair to say that the LCU Blog was the one most people would read first. Possibly boards.ie would fill the same role, possibly not -- an ICU-supported blog would have a clear advantage. Possibly it could be restricted to paid-up members who used their membership passwords to log in, with an appointed (or elected) moderator? (Ciaran Quinn if he'd take it on.)

    I can't comment on Irish defamation law, and it sounds less favourable to blogs than what I'm used to, but how big a worry is it that someone will steal or guess someone's password? Someone could write a letter to the editor of the Irish Times giving your name and address, and you could equally well be sued for that, but I've never heard of it happening.




  • CIanra Quinn if he'd take it on" how about some new blood? This dreadful instinct in Ireland to always keep continuity ! While he did an ok job under sometimes trying circumstances he does have a house. And why not try my idea ?




  • If it's an elected post all you have to do is throw your hat in the ring at the AGM!




  • Sorry to see the LCU blog go. Was a useful place to find info on not just LCU chess but Irish chess in general. Yes there were some problems with some users/posts, but that is to be expected on the internet.

    Looking at some of the replies in this thread about setting up a replacement, it seems to be getting over complicated for some very strange reasons that I never seen on the internet before.

    Making users aware that anything unacceptable in the "real world" is also unacceptable on the forum, and could get them banned, would surely be enough.




  • give me an instance of a informal body like the i c u being successfully sued in Ireland
    I can think of one off the top of my head from the shooting world, but that predates the current Defamation Act (it was however successful and the club involved wound up saddled with both legal costs and a punitive fine in the five figure range). There was Talbot-v-Hermitage Golf Club after the Defamation Act came in. Talbot lost; however, the point is that he dragged the club into the High (and later Supreme) Courts and even though the club won and won costs, they had no real hope of ever recouping the full amount.

    Plus, more practically, they had to pay for the solicitors up front and even with winning costs, not all of their legal costs are covered. That's not a position any unincorporated association would want to find itself in unless its officers were all named parties in a legal insurance policy of some kind.

    And more practically still, all that represents time, money, manpower and stress that does not one thing to promote chess. Worse, it would be negative PR for chess (and Cork showed how novel that is for newspapers and how fast they'll jump on it).

    So really, why risk it?
    Someone could write a letter to the editor of the Irish Times giving your name and address, and you could equally well be sued for that, but I've never heard of it happening.
    No, in that case it'd be the Times for not verifying name and address and for choosing the letter (editorial control == legal liability). And I've had that happen to me (with the Irish Examiner and without the lawsuits thankfully, but with a tendered (unaccepted) resignation from the NGB as a result because of the poor PR it represented). It worked out okay in the end, but it could have gone a whole other way entirely.




  • Well Sean, i never mentioned myself in the role. And it is not an elected post for the simple reason that the i c u executive will not be discussing it ffor weeks and when they do get around to it they will probably form a sub committee to discuss the matter....well you see what i mean




  • Hmm. I may have to brush up on my dragon...but a golf club presumably owning some land equipment buildings and not have article of incorporation?




  • Hmm. I may have to brush up on my dragon...but a golf club presumably owning some land equipment buildings and not have article of incorporation?
    Surprised me as well, most golf clubs are incorporated; but it's not in the CRO companies search and it's not listed in the legal documents (even in the labour court) as a company, but as a club.

    And skip the dragon and play caro-kann for a while, it'll seem lively after the french :D


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  • BTW, this is a lot of scary talk about something that's really easily avoided - we're talking worst case scenario here (I've just seen people go there in other sports and it's an absolute disaster when they do).

    If you want to avoid it, it's really quite easy - give up editorial control and you no longer have legal liability. It's only when you have editorial control that you wind up in trouble. So basicly, keep the LCU site and post the news there, but talk about it somewhere else that the LCU isn't responsible for (that could be here, but it could also be anywhere else at all). That's it, that's all you have to do to avoid the liability issues (well, assuming you don't actually post defamatory stuff as news, but if you do that, you deserve the lawsuit :D )


This discussion has been closed.
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