Frankfurt 'Blockupy' protesters target ECB, banks, airport

Scofflaw

20Cent wrote: »

Anything that steps outside of the accepted narrative is viewed with distrust and often scorn initially. Eventually it becomes mainstream:

The IMF have admitted the crisis was handled wrongly and bondholders should have been burnt. Today's editorial in the Independent says the same thing.

Our failure to burn the bondholders was wrong
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/our-failure-to-burn-the-bondholders-was-wrong-29326976.html

Hmm. The IMF says that it made errors in its original policy preferences in Greece, and this admission of error is taken as authoritative proof that one of its original preferred policies was correct?

amused,
Scofflaw

20Cent

Scofflaw wrote: »

Hmm. The IMF says that it made errors in its original policy preferences in Greece, and this admission of error is taken as authoritative proof that one of its original preferred policies was correct?

amused,
Scofflaw

Don't know what that sentence means.

Now Noonan is saying bondholders should have been burnt.

Finance Minister admits 'mistakes' made with Troika
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0612/456279-finance-min-admits-mistakes-made-with-troika/
Speaking on CNN Michael Noonan said mistakes had been made refusing to allow losses to be imposed on senior bondholders and other bank creditors in 2011

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So how would you suggest we force the government to cave, exactly? The whole point of something like Occupy, if it becomes big enough, is that it's so disruptive that the government have absolutely no choice but to do something. It didn't work, but I'm pretty sure that's the idea behind the concept. If everyone in Ireland joined it and brought the country to a standstill, realistically what choice would they have?

The government can only abuse its power as long as people facilitate it by doing as they're told.

Again, if organizing a mass occupation is out, what would YOU suggest in order to force an end to cronyism and to redesign the financial system? I'm obviously fairly militant about it, I'd be in favour of all out revolution to achieve justice, but I can perfectly understand that this isn't something everyone supports, so what would you propose instead? Engaging with the political system has proved utterly useless time and again - here we still are, with the same financial system, the same cronyism, the same crooks still free to walk the streets, the same sense of deja vu and the same bitter resignation to the fact that in all probability this cycle will continue indefinitely until its driven out by force.

Alternative suggestions?

But also, here we are with the same lunatic protestors wanting back our non-existent oil that we didn't give away or telling us all that a letter from revenue about the LPT isn't a bill and we should just return to sender. Look at the posters around Dublin about these and other issues.

The Occupy/protest movement will only be able to gain credibility if it ever comes up with credible and realistic ideas.

20Cent

Godge wrote: »

But also, here we are with the same lunatic protestors wanting back our non-existent oil that we didn't give away or telling us all that a letter from revenue about the LPT isn't a bill and we should just return to sender. Look at the posters around Dublin about these and other issues.

The Occupy/protest movement will only be able to gain credibility if it ever comes up with credible and realistic ideas.

Those posters aren't to do with Occupy they are those "freeman", libertarian characters.

Scofflaw

20Cent wrote: »

Those posters aren't to do with Occupy they are those "freeman", libertarian characters.

Sure, Occupy and the Freemen aren't related - indeed, would come from different ends of the political spectrum.

That's not necessarily going to be as obvious as either of those groups would like, though, because of their shared opposition to property tax.

cordially,
Scofflaw

hatrickpatrick

Godge wrote: »

But also, here we are with the same lunatic protestors wanting back our non-existent oil that we didn't give away or telling us all that a letter from revenue about the LPT isn't a bill and we should just return to sender. Look at the posters around Dublin about these and other issues.

The Occupy/protest movement will only be able to gain credibility if it ever comes up with credible and realistic ideas.

Alright, let me ask you a direct question then: Would you be in favour of banning ministers from personally overriding salary caps to reward their mates? Yes or no?

Nitochris

20Cent wrote: »

Those posters aren't to do with Occupy they are those "freeman", libertarian characters.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Sure, Occupy and the Freemen aren't related - indeed, would come from different ends of the political spectrum.

That's not necessarily going to be as obvious as either of those groups would like, though, because of their shared opposition to property tax.

cordially,
Scofflaw

They have been trying to poach people from the left - the Anarchist Review had a critique of the freeman movement a while back which mentions this. http://www.wsm.ie/c/anarchist-critique-freeman-movement

Edit: This probably adds to the confusion of some who might think the two are linked.

Lou.m

RMD wrote: »

The only thing Occupy Dame Street served as was a public nuisance and an eye sore. They had no support from the general populace and set-up camp in a prominent Dublin location against the wishes of local businesses.

People protest when they understand an issue the root cause who is responsible the problem is that most Irish people do not understand the problem nor the cause nor who is responsible nor what they want done.

Protests that draw crowds have clear and concise objectives.

Any successful propaganda uses simple language for a reason.

Sometimes it is dangerous to simplify sometimes it is benevolent.

Irish people do not know if they trust the opinions and objectives of objectors to the Troika and the Govt.

They dont know how to take action with purpose.

Also one of the biggest issues is we have very weak trade unions. These are usually key in effective mass protests and they hold other European govts under thumb.

They will not strike. And without their support most protesting will be for nothing.

The closest we have had to people power was over the abortion issue. And that was a clear concise idea.

It was also managed very well with great PR and intelligence against an opposition that seemed cruel and mad.

Things are not so black and white. Who is the bad guy? The banks the Irish govt the EU the people who took out loans they could not afford who?

Also Irish people are angry with each other ..the have nots are angry with the haves for not attempting social justice during the boom and now that the tables turned they are apathetic. The young resent the parents complacency in allowing the govts corruption. I mean seriously Bertie Ahern got re-elected following scandal after scandal.

Ireland is angry with Ireland.