Irish Water Creating 400 Jobs

Bits_n_Bobs

Listening to the radio this morning the CEO of Irish Water was on yacking about how great it is that Irish Water is 'creating' 400 jobs. There are plenty of reasons for paying for water but 'creating' jobs ain't one of them.

It's the usual lazy spinning and even lazier thinking by civil servants/politicians etc that using public money can 'create' jobs. They should be focused on developing policies, tackling uncompetitive sectors, waste, regulation when it comes to 'creating' jobs, but instead we get the usual dross of flinging other peoples money at something and call it 'creating jobs'.

Dannyboy83

The jobs probably won't be there very long anyway.

It will be privatised like England.

creedp

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Listening to the radio this morning the CEO of Irish Water was on yacking about how great it is that Irish Water is 'creating' 400 jobs. There are plenty of reasons for paying for water but 'creating' jobs ain't one of them.

It's the usual lazy spinning and even lazier thinking by civil servants/politicians etc that using public money can 'create' jobs. They should be focused on developing policies, tackling uncompetitive sectors, waste, regulation when it comes to 'creating' jobs, but instead we get the usual dross of flinging other peoples money at something and call it 'creating jobs'.

This is a similar issue to Tesco announcing new jobs due to the opening of a new supermarket. Its unlikely that will result in a significant net increase in jobs and I don't think the opening of a new Tesco will actually create additional demand. More likely it will dispace employment in existing retailers. However, an upside might be that Tesco is more competitive than the existing retailers thereby reducing prices for the same goods and leaving more money in the pockets of consumers.

Q is though will the new Irish water employees provide a more competive water network compared to the existing local authorities and where will the current displaced LA workers go?

Bits_n_Bobs

Irish Water will lead to more efficient use of water once proper metering is in place by pure dint of the fact that people will be paying for it.

I'm not sure how efficiency in a (monopolised) utility within the domestic economy could ever lead to an increase in jobs, probably quite the opposite in fact.

It could lead to a decrease in general costs which might have a knock on effect as other industries capitalise on that and perhaps become more competitive internationally due to it.

hfallada

Im glad to see the jobs were out sourced to a private firm therefore Irish water isnt held hostage by a union in a few years and in 20 years have a huge pension deficit.

The Bishop Basher

creedp wrote: »

Q is though will the new Irish water employees provide a more competive water network compared to the existing local authorities and where will the current displaced LA workers go?

Obviously the tax payer will continue to pay for them while now also paying for their water. Gotta love the cosy PS cartel in this country. Unless of course your funding it !!

spank_inferno

Outsource company Abtran will be running the call centre.

Good news for Cork.

Padraig Mor

spank_inferno wrote: »

Outsource company Abtran will be running the call centre.

Good news for Cork.

Not really. These "new jobs" will only be replacing (some of?) the jobs being lost due to their loss of the Sky contract; the jobs are only "new" on paper. Abtran doesn't exactly have a "best employer ever" reputation either.....

Rightwing

I know how we can create 400 more jobs (has to be in dublin/cork/galway).

Air quality, charge the citizens €500 a year and have inspectors go round the country with massive mileage expenses. Call centre,people ring in and enquire how much you owe.

charlemont

Anyone who takes a job with Irish Water should be treated as a pariah. The lessons of boycotting and the Land War shouldn't be forgotten.

spank_inferno

charlemont wrote: »

Anyone who takes a job with Irish Water should be treated as a pariah. The lessons of boycotting and the Land War shouldn't be forgotten.

What in gods name is any of the above supposed to mean?

spank_inferno

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Not really. These "new jobs" will only be replacing (some of?) the jobs being lost due to their loss of the Sky contract; the jobs are only "new" on paper. Abtran doesn't exactly have a "best employer ever" reputation either.....

Sky moved their operations to Dublin.

Abtran will start recruiting for the above jobs in Cork.

It's still a positive.

n97 mini

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Irish water will only do the metering and billing. The water supply will still be done by each local authority, as it is now.

gowley

creedp wrote: »

This is a similar issue to Tesco announcing new jobs due to the opening of a new supermarket. Its unlikely that will result in a significant net increase in jobs and I don't think the opening of a new Tesco will actually create additional demand. More likely it will dispace employment in existing retailers. However, an upside might be that Tesco is more competitive than the existing retailers thereby reducing prices for the same goods and leaving more money in the pockets of consumers.

Q is though will the new Irish water employees provide a more competive water network compared to the existing local authorities and where will the current displaced LA workers go?

to be fair tesco employ over 14,000 people in ireland. you cant compare that 400 jobs in a company that is in reality set up by the government to collect more taxes

opti0nal

spank_inferno wrote: »

Outsource company Abtran will be running the call centre....Good news for Cork.

Who pays for those jobs?

We do.

opti0nal

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

Irish Water will lead to more efficient use of water once proper metering is in place by pure dint of the fact that people will be paying for it.

Expect an impact on green bin and bottle recycling as people will be reluctant to wash containers once they realise they must pay for the water. This will push processing costs onto the recyclers.

Phoebas

opti0nal wrote: »

Expect an impact on green bin and bottle recycling as people will be reluctant to wash containers once they realise they must pay for the water. This will push processing costs onto the recyclers.

I'm loving your optimism.
When we get to the point that people won't even 'waste' water to rinse out used milk cartons we'll all be super efficient.

jimmycrackcorm

I think it's days a lot that the jobs are for their call centre and not a single job announcement about fixing or improving the water network!

ART6

opti0nal wrote: »

Expect an impact on green bin and bottle recycling as people will be reluctant to wash containers once they realise they must pay for the water. This will push processing costs onto the recyclers.

At the moment I faithfully wash bottles for the bottle bank. I clean cartons before putting them in the recycling bag. I put plastic tubs in my dishwasher. I do not currently try to apportion a cost to that. I pay €260 a year for my bins. However, I won't be doing any of that if I have to pay for the water with which to do it, because that is yet another example of double stealth taxation. What we have here is yet more ill-thought out legislation that will have unforeseen consequences (unforeseen by whom?). I look forward to Big Phil pointing a finger at me and telling me "You will wash everything you put in your bin or else the Revenue/council/Environment Agency will come for you and take their costs from your bank account or savings."

Ireland has a minimal recycling industry, and its waste recycling continues at a cost not a profit. Most recyclables are shipped to the UK and elsewhere, and the costs are reflected in bin charges from local authorities and contractors. It is simple business sense that if the quality of the recyclables goes down then the costs will go up. So now Joe Public's bin charges will increase along with his water charges. This, no doubt, will be hailed as a success for the government's strategy.

I do not suggest that this issue is the only one confronting the country. It is just another straw. It's just that lots of straws add load to the camel's back.

dsmythy

All the doom stories about the effects of a water charge don't ring through to me when we are one of the few who don't have them. It's normalisation.

ART6

dsmythy wrote: »

All the doom stories about the effects of a water charge don't ring through to me when we are one of the few who don't have them. It's normalisation.

So when the charges come into effect, replacing the funding through general taxation, we can expect our taxes to reduce by the appropriate amount? Otherwise, we are again paying twice. Oh well, double taxation is always a nice little earner, especially when people don't realise they are paying it.

opti0nal

dsmythy wrote: »

All the doom stories about the effects of a water charge don't ring through to me when we are one of the few who don't have them. It's normalisation.

Sound very similar to an argument for property tax which is that 'other countries have it'. It remains to be seen how the cost will relate to how much is consumed and how much it costs to provide the service.

Padraig Mor

dsmythy wrote: »

All the doom stories about the effects of a water charge don't ring through to me when we are one of the few who don't have them. It's normalisation.

Taxpayers already pay for water. The new charges just mean we will be paying more.

Pete_Cavan

opti0nal wrote: »

Expect an impact on green bin and bottle recycling as people will be reluctant to wash containers once they realise they must pay for the water. This will push processing costs onto the recyclers.

This is exactly the problem with our current system wrt water supply; a fortune is spent producing water for human consumption and most of it is literally flushed down the toilet. Connect a water butt to a downpipe on your house and u will have plenty of free water for washing out recyclables. Water charges will reduce the amount of potable water used for non-potable needs which will reduce the cost of supplying potable water

Am Chile

dsmythy wrote: »

All the doom stories about the effects of a water charge don't ring through to me when we are one of the few who don't have them. It's normalisation.

Ah yes the argument other countries have water charges so ireland should too-other countries in europe have water charges as they dont have the same rainfall and water supplies we do- the only real reason they are going to try bring in water charges almost 20 years later after water charges were previously defeated is setting the agenda for privatization of water services.

Pete_Cavan

Am Chile wrote: »

Ah yes the argument other countries have water charges so ireland should too-other countries in europe have water charges as they dont have the same rainfall and water supplies we do- the only real reason they are going to try bring in water charges almost 20 years later after water charges were previously defeated is setting the agenda for privatization of water services.

Seeing as you fail to recognise the difference between rain water that falls from the sky and treated water that comes through your taps I am going to assume you know nothing about this sector and have nothing to support your claim about privatisation?

Seanachai

I wouldn't drink tap water unless I was really stuck , it'd be better to invest in rainwater collection systems and some filtration set up to almost eliminate using the mains altogether.

Jumboman

hfallada wrote: »

Im glad to see the jobs were out sourced to a private firm therefore Irish water isnt held hostage by a union in a few years and in 20 years have a huge pension deficit.

Heaven forbid the workers may stand up for their rights so lets get the yellow pack workers in instead.

Max Powers

Seanachai wrote: »

I wouldn't drink tap water unless I was really stuck , it'd be better to invest in rainwater collection systems and some filtration set up to almost eliminate using the mains altogether.

Not if you have seen the prices of installing a harvesting system.crazy money. Until they come down, people wont see benefit or of course water charges go up (likely)

hfallada

Jumboman wrote: »

Heaven forbid the workers may stand up for their rights so lets get the yellow pack workers in instead.

Its 2013 there is excellent workers rights in Ireland stopping workers getting exploited. It would be different in 1913 when workers had no rights. The only functions of unions in semi state bodies is to ensure workers get a ridiculously high level of pay(paid for by the customer) and have job security regardless if they do their job properly or not.

Do workers in non union work forces get exploited? No because they are protected by legalisation

Jumboman

hfallada wrote: »

Its 2013 there is excellent workers rights in Ireland stopping workers getting exploited.

These rights are being eroded all the time just recently they reduced premium pay for sundays for catering staff.
Also IBEC has being campaigning to have the Minimum wage reduced.

http://ibec.ie/ibec/press/presspublicationsdoclib3.nsf/2ACF8686274C6708802575F20030C085/AB73114F3B921004802577F50058ADDE

It would be different in 1913 when workers had no rights. The only functions of unions in semi state bodies is to ensure workers get a ridiculously high level of pay(paid for by the customer) and have job security regardless if they do their job properly or not.

I'm not a great fan of those running the unions but they are neened. If a workers rights are being abused they are always better off if they are in a union which can take collective action.

Also what "ridiculously high pay" are you talking about ? Clerical Officers earn less than 40k max, I hardly call that "ridiculously high pay" giving the cost of living.

Do workers in non union work forces get exploited? No because they are protected by legalisation

I know private sector workers who are told to work extra hours for free if they want to keep their jobs, this would not happen if they were in a
strong union.

Workers were not given the rights they have now without unions having to fight for them. If people dont stand up for their rights employers will just keep taking from them.

hfallada

Jumboman wrote: »

These rights are being eroded all the time just recently they reduced premium pay for sundays for catering staff.
Also IBEC has being campaigning to have the Minimum wage reduced.

http://ibec.ie/ibec/press/presspublicationsdoclib3.nsf/2ACF8686274C6708802575F20030C085/AB73114F3B921004802577F50058ADDE




I'm not a great fan of those running the unions but they are neened. If a workers rights are being abused they are always better off if they are in a union which can take collective action.

Also what "ridiculously high pay" are you talking about ? Clerical Officers earn less than 40k max, I hardly call that "ridiculously high pay" giving the cost of living.



I know private sector workers who are told to work extra hours for free if they want to keep their jobs, this would not happen if they were in a
strong union.

Workers were not given the rights they have now without unions having to fight for them. If people dont stand up for their rights employers will just keep taking from them.

The minimum wage is one of the highest in the world and was being increased about twice the rate of inflation. It has to be reduced to gain competitiveness.

Why should someone get extra pay for Sunday?The only logic is that its a religious day which is no longer relevant in the 21st century.

Workers have more rights than ever which is protected by law. This has nothing to do with the policies of the mean business man do you seem to think exist.

Jumboman

hfallada wrote: »

The minimum wage is one of the highest in the world and was being increased about twice the rate of inflation. It has to be reduced to gain competitiveness.

Its the one of the highest because the cost of living is so high. If you reduce it you will just take more money of the economy and drive it down even further.

Also as for "competitiveness" do you really think we should compete with the likes of China or Eastern Europe when it comes to wages ?

hfallada wrote: »

Why should someone get extra pay for Sunday?The only logic is that its a religious day which is no longer relevant in the 21st century.

Because people might have family obligations. Its one of the few days were families can get together. I'm not religious but people should expect not to have to work sunday.

hfallada wrote: »

Workers have more rights than ever which is protected by law.

Most people have had their wages cut and being made to work longer hours since 2008 they clearly dont have more rights than ever.

hfallada wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the policies of the mean business man do you seem to think exist.

And your saying mean business men dont exist ?