Breast milk

ronjo

I have a question I would like to put out there in general to gauge opinion.

Would you consider using someone someone elses breastmilk if you didnt have any/enough?

Its based on the assumption that
1. The other mother is healthy
2. The babies are the exact same age.

It would be for max one feed per day I guess.

gravid

i prob would, at least if my other choice was formula. but not having enough milk can usually be rectified by breastfeeding more frequently and not give from bottle...

missis aggie

If any other methods that help increase the supply failed- then yes I would.

Hobbitfeet

Absolutely would use donor milk if I was not able to exclusively breastfeed. I would have a bigger problem using formula than donor milk

How Strange

I'd also use donor milk.

ronjo

Thanks for the replies, especially the ones without the digs at formula as this wasnt really what the op was about.

Das Kitty

Are you looking for resources to source some donor groups? I have a friend who recently had to get some on short notice and I can ask her the contact details of the group if you'd like.

Hobbitfeet

Can I ask why you would like to "gauge opinion" on this subject?

ronjo

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

Can I ask why you would like to "gauge opinion" on this subject?

Yes of course.
I thought it was a bit strange to be honest but have since found out elsewhere, including the replies here that its not in the slightest.

ronjo

Das Kitty wrote: »

Are you looking for resources to source some donor groups? I have a friend who recently had to get some on short notice and I can ask her the contact details of the group if you'd like.

Thanks for the offer but we have the resource.

LegacyUser

ronjo wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, especially the ones without the digs at formula as this wasnt really what the op was about.

I would also use doner milk ahead of formula. I don't think anyone was having a dig at formula. A lot of people (inculding myself) consider it a far inferior product and would rather give our children the milk of our species where possible.

Hobbitfeet

Breast milk bank and milk sharing are a really valuable service. The use of breastmilk instead of formula in preterm babies has huge advantages. Are you looking for milk or a someone considering breastfeeding?

How Strange

And unfortunately it's a very limited resource so isn't one you could depend on as a back up. As far as I know premature and sick babies get priority and rightly so.

In fact now that I'm breastfeeding again I must look into donating. I'm not too familiar with the criteria.

Hobbitfeet

If you contact the milk bank in fermanagh they will give you all the info

Oral Slang

Yes would use donor milk, esp if I had a preterm or sick child & couldn't feed for some reason. I've donated milk to a mother that was stuck before.

lynski

i would use donor milk if i needed to and i would donate if i could. I have used formula in the past but my knowledge has increased and i would not now. i volunteered to feed a baby recently of the mom could not source donor milk but she got some.

taxus_baccata

I too would use donor milk, furthermore I would rather have someone else nurse my son if needed and I would nurse another baby if they needed it. Ifeel that strongly about human milk for human babies!

iguana

ronjo wrote: »

especially the ones without the digs at formula as this wasnt really what the op was about.

Sorry but as giving formula is normally what is done in our society when there is a supply issue or a feared supply issue, as is more often the case, of course a thread asking about the better but more unusual option of using donor milk will draw comparisons to formula. That's not a 'dig' just a natural place for the conversation to go.

And yes, as long as I was assured it carried no infectious diseases or traces of dangerous medications, I would use donor milk without reservation whereas I would be extremely unhappy about ever giving any formula. There is a reason that the WHO list donor milk ahead of formula on their order of recommendations on what to feed an infant.

ronjo

iguana wrote: »

Sorry but as giving formula is normally what is done in our society when there is a supply issue or a feared supply issue, as is more often the case, of course a thread asking about the better but more unusual option of using donor milk will draw comparisons to formula. That's not a 'dig' just a natural place for the conversation to go.

And yes, as long as I was assured it carried no infectious diseases or traces of dangerous medications, I would use donor milk without reservation whereas I would be extremely unhappy about ever giving any formula. There is a reason that the WHO list donor milk ahead of formula on their order of recommendations on what to feed an infant.

Ridiculous reply.
You say its not a "dig" and then you go ahead and do exactly that in the next paragraph.

Thanks to all the other answers. The donor milk has been gratefully received and is being used.

This issue can be closed.

iguana

It's not a dig. The World Health Organisation are very clear when they list their ways to feed infants in order of superiority and donor milk is 3rd while formula is 4th for a reason. Formula is inferior, that's a scientific fact not a dig. It's also often full of bacteria and I'd be very nervous about preparing it because of that fact. The way the vitamins are added would also worry me a lot. I wouldn't have any of those worries with donor milk.The fact that you are taking objective facts as some sort of insult is the only thing that's 'ridiculous' about any of the replies.

Hobbitfeet

I don't think it was a dig, it was the truth the WHO do list donor milk above formula as best food for babies. The truth is formula is listed as a last option and the least beneficial to baby, unfortunately in this country that truth is extremely unpopular and people don't like to hear it for obvious reasons, but that does not take away from the fact that it is the truth.

ronjo

iguana wrote: »

It's not a dig. The World Health Organisation are very clear when they list their ways to feed infants in order of superiority and donor milk is 3rd while formula is 4th for a reason. Formula is inferior, that's a scientific fact not a dig. It's also often full of bacteria and I'd be very nervous about preparing it because of that fact. The way the vitamins are added would also worry me a lot. I wouldn't have any of those worries with donor milk.The fact that you are taking objective facts as some sort of insult is the only thing that's 'ridiculous' about any of the replies.

Listen I made it clear I dont want a debate on the merits but you continue proving your point.
I know breast milk is a lot better...
Thats why my wife is upset she doesnt have enough,
Thats why she spoke to her friend about the donation
Thats why I asked the question here (because I had never heard of donation) and
Thats why we gave it to our baby.
Thats it.

Can a mod please close this thread.

How Strange

I dont think the last few replies were ridiculous either especially taken in the context of Irish society. Some Irish people are appalled to see a mother breastfeeding her own baby so the idea of donated milk or another mother providing her milk or nursing someone else's baby would be considered beyond the pale of what's acceptable.

Formula as a solution to low milk supply would, on the other hand, be considered the obvious choice in Irish society and is usually the one recommended by healthcare professionals.

I'm sorry to hear your wife is struggling with her own supply and I'm sure it places a great stress on you both. There's nothing as stressful as not being able to feed your child for whatever reason.

I hope she's getting good help and support to resolve the problem.

Hobbitfeet

There's lots of resources that your wife can avail of to help to increase her supply if that's what she wants. Contact La Leche League, Cuidiu or Friends of breastfeeding they all offer free support and advice

iguana

Ronjo, I'm sorry if you feel like me or any others are making digs at you because we have worries about formula, I was just pointing out that it's a natural place for the conversation to go and why, not trying to upset you. In fact I think that what you and your wife are doing absolutely amazing. It can't be easy to go against what feels odd in order to do the best thing possible for your baby and you should both feel very proud of it, tbh.

ronjo

Ok, I will take you all at your word and thank you for your replies

I actually dont live in Ireland, but in Central Europe. Where I live its almost 100% breast feeding and I dont think anyone here would choose not to breast feed if they could.
Why is it different in Ireland?

How Strange

ronjo, yes it's very different here. You're very very lucky to have the option of donor milk and the support systems which advocate it.

ronjo

How Strange wrote: »

ronjo, yes it's very different here. You're very very lucky to have the option of donor milk and the support systems which advocate it.

But why is it so different?

My first child will be 3 in a few months and she only had breast milk for just over a month for the same reasons as now. After that she was exclusively formula with no health issues (thankfully it seems).
My wife got to know a lot of new monthers at the time and she was the only one using the formula. (same as now)

pwurple

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

Another worry I would have is the fact that babies are being fed formula made with fluoridated water also consider the amount of water contamination with deadly bacteria in this country.

Oh jesus not this again. Mindless off topic JimCorr-like rant above. What has flouride got to do with bacteria? They are nothing to do with eachother.

Bacteria is removed by sterilisation. Flouride and bacteria are not linked in any way.

Breastfeeding mothers also drink tap water, and breasts also have bacteria on them. It's not a bad thing. What 'deadly bacteria' are you on about? Wait, don't even bother, the response will be the usual conspiracy theory nonsense.

Orion

pwurple: there is no need for that type of response at all. It is unhelpful, rude and inflammatory.

iguana

ronjo wrote: »

But why is it so different?

It's a difficult question to answer as there are so many things contributing to it but I'll try. First off 2 or 3 generations ago breastfeeding became seen as a seriously low class thing to do. Breastfeeding became seen as something you would only do because you couldn't afford to buy modern formula. For reasons possibly to do with our past as a colony Irish people, in general, have a huge problem with looking like we can't afford to do something and 'keeping up with the Joneses' is rife. Even people who might have quite liked to have breastfed would be embarrassed that people would think they couldn't afford milk. My grandmother breastfed at a point when almost nobody at all did, as she was convinced it was better but she told me that she felt embarrassed about it as people would look down on her. Her extended relatives were always trying to make her mother tell her to stop 'as only tinkers (travellers/gypsies) breastfed' and she was bringing shame on the family. So for generations breastfeeding was even rarer than it is today.

Secondly our health system isn't set up to support it well enough. Few of our health professionals were breastfed or breastfed their own children and the ones who are properly educated on it are few and far between. The advice they give often unintentionally sabotages the breastfeeding relationship as they routinely persuade mothers to top up with formula unnecessarily as up until the start of this year only the formula fed baby weight charts were routinely available. Even now some mothers I know have been told their babies were falling down the weight charts and needed to top-up and the breastfed baby charts were only checked after the mother asked/insisted. Mothers who aren't aware there are two charts often get worried into topping up. I gave birth in Wales and the level of information and support given to breastfeeding mothers is certainly much better there than that which I have received here. I often come away from appointments with the public health nurse scratching my head wondering about the frankly bizarre things they tell me about breastfeeding. I don't know what I'd believe if I didn't come from a breastfeeding family or hadn't had the experience of maternity care in a region with better breastfeeding support.

As studies on the great apes show, females who weren't nursed or who haven't lived around nursing females don't know how to nurse their young. Infant apes have the reflexes to suckle but their mothers need to be able to help them. The same appears to be true for humans. Breastfeeding appears to be learned behaviour in the most intelligent animals as opposed to instinctual. And if we don't grow up with breastfeeding we need to be taught. If our teachers haven't had the experience themselves, we will run into problems. In Ireland breastfeeding is something of a lost skill and not everyone is able to learn that skill if they aren't lucky enough to have skilled teachers. And skilled teachers are in short supply. A lot of people also refuse to believe that breastmilk is actually any better nutritionally, some even believing that formula is actually better. Lastly Ireland produces something like 30% of the world's formula so maybe it's possible that has something to do with it too.

ronjo

Thanks for that Iguana.

I have another question. Yesterday I took some of the donated milk from the freezer but we didn't end up using it. I put it back in the freezer again instead of the fridge. Is it ok to use it? Ie it will have defrosted twice?

Hobbitfeet

No I wouldn't use it, not recommended to refreeze breastmilk. Also I mentioned before about breastfeeding support, La Leche League is an international organisation so there is probably a group near you, just have a google and I'm sure you'll find it.

My opinion on why most don't bf in Ireland is because I think a lot of people don't believe that there is any real difference between formula and bm. Also it's not something you see in public very often, until its common place to see mothers breastfeeding everywhere then I think our rates will stay low

liliq

ronjo wrote: »

Thanks for that Iguana.

I have another question. Yesterday I took some of the donated milk from the freezer but we didn't end up using it. I put it back in the freezer again instead of the fridge. Is it ok to use it? Ie it will have defrosted twice?

Kellymom.com has excellent guides on milk storage, and how long it's suitable to freeze/ refrigerate/ keep at room temperature and how long from thawing to use etc.

wolfpawnat

Tried BF-ing no1, after 6 weeks of expressing, I gave in to formula. My breasts dried up and it is one of the only times I felt I failed as a mother and as a woman. I am now pregnant with no.2 and am going to do everything in my power to try again. I am trying to find support groups and everything to make my life easier, if I needed donor milk, as long as the woman is healthy, then yes please. If I find myself with surplus this time and fitting of the criteria, I would donate in an instant.

Ms2011

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Tried BF-ing no1, after 6 weeks of expressing, I gave in to formula. My breasts dried up and it is one of the only times I felt I failed as a mother and as a woman.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here as to why breast feeding mother's 'just stating the facts' of breast feeding hit such a nerve with bottle feeding mothers.
Unless you live under a rock most women know the benefits of breast feeding, alot try & fail ( or this is how it feels) to breast feed. Then to be constantly told what 'muck' formula is just feels like another thing to feel guilty about.
If breast feeding mothers think they have it bad from public opinion they should try sitting on the other side of the fence where you can't even see a formula ad on TV without being told breast is best & it can be a little upsetting, no one likes to think they are not giving their child the v.best.
Anyway if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant again I would love to breast feed but won't be putting the pressure to do it on myself like I did last time, I would also use donor milk if it were readily available.

Hobbitfeet

I think it's really important to go to some of the group meetings before the baby comes. Can be so overwhelming in the early days and then to get the time or courage to go into a metting can be tough. But if you've been before and have met the women it's easier to ask for help after, that's what I found anyway.
Try not to worry about it, there is lots of help and support out there

wolfpawnat

Ms2011 wrote: »

I think you've hit the nail on the head here as to why breast feeding mother's 'just stating the facts' of breast feeding hit such a nerve with bottle feeding mothers.
Unless you live under a rock most women know the benefits of breast feeding, alot try & fail ( or this is how it feels) to breast feed. Then to be constantly told what 'muck' formula is just feels like another thing to feel guilty about.
If breast feeding mothers think they have it bad from public opinion they should try sitting on the other side of the fence where you can't even see a formula ad on TV without being told breast is best & it can be a little upsetting, no one likes to think they are not giving their child the v.best.
Anyway if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant again I would love to breast feed but won't be putting the pressure to do it on myself like I did last time, I would also use donor milk if it were readily available.

You are told over and over that it is what we are made for, it is the most natural thing on this earth, it's easy, and then for reasons beyond your control you fail. And it is one hell of a kick in the teeth.

Most Irish women don't try, so they don't feel the guilt. And that's their choice. I don't think anyone should ever look down on another's choice. Some have to get back to work ASAP if they are self-employed, some have large families and haven't the time, some can't produce enough milk, and some just don't want to. It is almost taboo to breast feed here, my MIL is going on about it and the baby isn't even born. "why would you bother? waste of time, sure no one else can feed it then" She is badgering me NOT to BF. I dunno I am going to try and now that I know a support network exists I will try that, but you can only try. I won't be as quick to beat myself up this time if I can't.

meeeeh

I got the pregnancy pack in the hospital. I think there were about five different brouchures which had info on breastfeeding. In all of them it was exactly the same stuff written, I'm guessing copied from the same source. Somebody in HSE obviously decided they have nothing better to do but writte another brouchure. I wouldn't mind if they were actually effective but they are only telling women who don't breast feed how they are inadequate. The numbers of breast feeding women increased in Ireland however stats for last ten years show it's mostly due to foreigners moving in. One would think that after years and years they would figure out that treating women like idiots doesn't work.

I breast fed for six months both of my kids. Probably due to my cultural bacground I didn't even consider not to. After that they were on formula because it suited me. Did I feel guilty and miss it? Yes. Did I feel guilty enough to try to breast feed while working? No. I just wish people would have a bit more relaxed approach to everything. There is a middle ground between the breast feeding jihad and formula obsession in this country. And maybe less smug approach would work better.

As for milk bank I probably wouldn't use it because it is a lot less hassle to go to a supermarket and buy a carton. Shoot me!

/rant off

wolfpawnat

I find that they are all about the literature, but when I was in the ward trying to feed my baby, all I got was "relax" and a midwife pinching my nipples and trying to ram it into the baby's mouth. Hardly the most successful way to manage it!

iguana

pwurple wrote: »

Oh jesus not this again. Mindless off topic JimCorr-like rant above.

You know that it's the American Dental Association, who fully support water fluoridation otherwise, who recommend not using fluoridated water for infant formulas, right? Not Jim Corr.

“Infants who are only fed powdered and liquid concentrate formulas mixed with optimally fluoridated water (0.7 to 1.2 ppm) are likely to exceed a fluoride intake level established by the Institute of Medicine designed to reduce the risk of moderate to severe enamel fluorosis [brown stained and/or pitted teeth],” ADA February 2, 2010.

pwurple wrote: »

Breastfeeding mothers also drink tap water, and breasts also have bacteria on them. It's not a bad thing. What 'deadly bacteria' are you on about? Wait, don't even bother, the response will be the usual conspiracy theory nonsense.

There is no requirement for formula to be sterile and it has been known to be contaminated with Cronobacter sakazakii (formerly known as Enterobacter sakazakii), more rarely, Salmonella,* Enterobacteriaceae and Acinetobacter** on enough confirmed occasions to be quite worrying and for the companies to be legally required to advise very strict preparation guidelines. Breastmilk on the other hand is actually anti-bacterial and kills many types of bacteria it comes in contact with. For example, studies show that breastmilk that was purposely infected with E coli killed the bacterium.

*That's from the NHS, the CDC and **Unicef, by the way, who I think we can all agree aren't known for trolling conspiracy theories about the place.

iguana

Ms2011 wrote: »

I think you've hit the nail on the head here as to why breast feeding mother's 'just stating the facts' of breast feeding hit such a nerve with bottle feeding mothers.
Unless you live under a rock most women know the benefits of breast feeding, alot try & fail ( or this is how it feels) to breast feed. Then to be constantly told what 'muck' formula is just feels like another thing to feel guilty about.
If breast feeding mothers think they have it bad from public opinion they should try sitting on the other side of the fence where you can't even see a formula ad on TV without being told breast is best & it can be a little upsetting, no one likes to think they are not giving their child the v.best.

The thing is though that that is true about so much of life. The fact is that it's better for both the mother and baby if the mother has a natural vaginal birth. Skin to skin contact in the first hour of life is of huge benefit to the baby. Allowing the cord to stop pulsing before it is cut greatly reduces the baby's risk of anaemia. Pethidine, epidural, c-sections etc all have drawbacks and can cause lasting complications. I was completely determined to have a natural, waterbirth, the availability of which in Wales was a major deciding factor for my husband and I when he was offered a contract there that coincided with my last trimester. There was no way I was ever, ever having an epidural.

I ended up after 65 hours of labour where with contractions coming a minute on - a minute off yet I wasn't dilating needing an epidural and oxytocin. After 80 hours of labour, the last three of which were 2nd stage, I needed a spinal block and a c-section. I didn't get to hold my son for an hour after he was born, his cord was cut straight away. I know the way he was born was not of the best benefit to him. I'm aware that he has certain increased health risks because of it. That does make me feel sad and disappointed in myself. I often wonder if I could have done something differently would I have been able to have a natural birth and ensured a better start for my son. But if someone states the fact that natural births are superior, I just accept that. It's just the truth. It might make me feel guilty, it certainly brings my sadness about it to the surface, but it's not a dig and it wouldn't be right if anyone ever felt they should avoid being truthful or stating facts that might educate those who don't know and benefit future babies because I couldn't give my son those same benefits.

Hobbitfeet

pwurple wrote: »

Oh jesus not this again. Mindless off topic JimCorr-like rant above. What has flouride got to do with bacteria? They are nothing to do with eachother.

Bacteria is removed by sterilisation. Flouride and bacteria are not linked in any way.

Breastfeeding mothers also drink tap water, and breasts also have bacteria on them. It's not a bad thing. What 'deadly bacteria' are you on about? Wait, don't even bother, the response will be the usual conspiracy theory nonsense.

Pwurple you have totally twisted my words there. I did not say that fluoride had anything to do with bacteria, I said these were too concerns I had.
It is recommended that non fluordated water be used for formula, it is fact that formula is not sterile and that is why there is strict prep guidelines, in 2008 in china 300,000 babies became ill, 54,000 were hospitalised and 6 died from contaminated forumla. . E. coli and criptosproidium are the bacteria contamination i was taking about, both of these are becoming more common and boil water notices are issued regularly, especially in the area I live. Both can cause severe gastrointestinal infections and are even more serious in infants. There is no conspiracy.

Ms2011

Tbh Iguana 'failing' at having a natural birth & 'failing' at breastfeeding aren't really the same. I've had a similar birth to you & yes I would have loved to have gone naturally but I have a c'eat la vie attutude to the section as it was to save my son.
However breastfeeding is often given up voluntarily (often through alot of hardship) & because the mother's tiredness, inexperience, other committments etc. dictates this rather than the mother's wanting to give it up it often results in alot of guilt, guilt that often never goes away.
Also mostly breastfeeding cannot be dicussed without in the same breath putting formula down adding to a mother's inadequate feelings.

As for formula not being sterilised, is that not the reason it's made with boiled water, to ensure the formula is sterilised???
So if the bottle is sterilised, the water is boiled & the formula is then sterilised with boiled water, how big is the risk of bacteria being present by the time a baby drinks the formula??
Is there any numbers of how many children have been made sick in Ireland by formula in contrast to the overall numbers being fed formula??

liliq

Ms2011 wrote: »

Tbh Iguana 'failing' at having a natural birth & 'failing' at breastfeeding aren't really the same. I've had a similar birth to you & yes I would have loved to have gone naturally but I have a c'eat la vie attutude to the section as it was to save my son.
However breastfeeding is often given up voluntarily (often through alot of hardship) & because the mother's tiredness, inexperience, other committments etc. dictates this rather than the mother's wanting to give it up it often results in alot of guilt, guilt that often never goes away.
Also mostly breastfeeding cannot be dicussed without in the same breath putting formula down adding to a mother's inadequate feelings.

As for formula not being sterilised, is that not the reason it's made with boiled water, to ensure the formula is sterilised???
So if the bottle is sterilised, the water is boiled & the formula is then sterilised with boiled water, how big is the risk of bacteria being present by the time a baby drinks the formula??
Is there any numbers of how many children have been made sick in Ireland by formula in contrast to the overall numbers being fed formula??

I'm on my phone so keeping it brief... In a way the c section and Breastfeeding or not are similar. A lot of mums don't know because they're simply not told about the potential lasting risks associated with interventions in birth, and they often don't have true support in intervention free births.
The same with breastfeeding, usually women don't 'fail' at breastfeeding, but they don't receive the support they need and deserve to keep it up. Yes, Breastfeeding is natural, that does not mean its easy. Especially when mums aren't used to seeing other mums nursing, or hearing other mums talk about normal breastfeeding challenges.

The thing about formula not being sterilised is that there's only a certain amount of bcteria that boiling water can kill. To truly sterilise it would mean keeping it at higher temperatures for longer, which would kill the nutrients, denature the proteins etc. so there's a definite risk involved.

taz70

Ms2011 wrote: »

As for formula not being sterilised, is that not the reason it's made with boiled water, to ensure the formula is sterilised???
So if the bottle is sterilised, the water is boiled & the formula is then sterilised with boiled water, how big is the risk of bacteria being present by the time a baby drinks the formula??

In theory, yes, but most people do not make up bottles to the HSE's or even the manufacturers' specifications. Making bottles ahead of time, making them on cold water then heating them, making them with hot water from a thermos, storing them on the counter etc etc are all regular practices that mean the formula is either not sterilised in the first place or is potentially recontaminated after it has been made. You just need to read a parenting website with the "ah sure it'll be fine" attitude to making up bottles.

You can add to the list of concerns the incredible number of preservatives, neurotoxins and industrial chemicals used in the production of formula to reasons why many people avoid it, and whilst health effects might not be immediately obvious, there are risks such as SIDS that are associated with infant formula.

Ms2011

liliq wrote: »

I'm on my phone so keeping it brief... In a way the c section and Breastfeeding or not are similar. A lot of mums don't know because they're simply not told about the potential lasting risks associated with interventions in birth, and they often don't have true support in intervention free births.
The same with breastfeeding, usually women don't 'fail' at breastfeeding, but they don't receive the support they need and deserve to keep it up. Yes, Breastfeeding is natural, that does not mean its easy. Especially when mums aren't used to seeing other mums nursing, or hearing other mums talk about normal breastfeeding challenges.

The thing about formula not being sterilised is that there's only a certain amount of bcteria that boiling water can kill. To truly sterilise it would mean keeping it at higher temperatures for longer, which would kill the nutrients, denature the proteins etc. so there's a definite risk involved.

I've had both a section & been unable to breast feed & I can tell you from first hand experience that the guilt loaded on you for not breastfeeding is nowhere near the same as for not having a natural birth, there is no comparison as far as I'm concerned.

Can you provide any links to the numbers of babies made sick from incorrectly made formula, I've been looking & all I can find is that the risk exsists but I can't find any stats on it actually happening.

Ms2011

taz70 wrote: »

and whilst health effects might not be immediately obvious, there are risks such as SIDS that are associated with infant formula.

I think this is hugely misinformative, the reason SIDS is lower in breastfed babies is largely to do with the fact that their mothers' tend also to be non-smokers & well educated rather than the breastmilk itself.

Das Kitty

Also... The WHO is for the entire world, and water quality is incredibly poor in the majority of countries.

I'm the same as you Ms2011. Gave up breastfeeding after making a martyr of myself for it (yay permanent scarring). I had the group before the birth, I had the breastfeeding consultants, I had the supply, I had a perfectly healthy baby with no tongue tie. It took me a long time to realise that breastfeeding him was making me hate the sight if him and contributing to my depression (not PND, just the regular variety).

Once I came to terms with giving up (long after I had) I realised that he was better off with a mum who loved and wanted him with her than the husk of a person who was with him before.

That said, I'm going to give it a go again with this lil guy when he's born. I've got a contact who's up on the laid back method and I'll be meeting her in the next month or two. I'm not going to make a mess of myself like I did last time though.

taz70

Ms2011 wrote: »

I think this is hugely misinformative, the reason SIDS is lower in breastfed babies is largely to do with the fact that their mothers' tend also to be non-smokers & well educated rather than the breastmilk itself.

No, I think your post is hugely misinformative.

Those attributes may be associated, but artificial milk itself increases the risk of SIDS. It may be an uncomfortable fact, and sadly it's not widely promoted by formula manufacturers, but it is established.

There are a number of reasons why, but one is that formula itself is harder to digest, making babies sleep more deeply and unable to rouse themselves in the event of a critical respiratory incident.

It makes me very sad that in order to find the holy grail of babies sleeping through the night, that heavier and heavier formulas are used to fill their guts and keep them asleep. If babies wake, perhaps there's a reason for it rather than an inconvenience for us.

But at any rate, the link is there. I know that the language is usually "breastfeeding lowers the risk of SIDS", but if we consider breastfeeding to be the default position for humans, then artificial milk thus increases the risk of SIDS.

taz70

Ms2011 wrote: »

Can you provide any links to the numbers of babies made sick from incorrectly made formula, I've been looking & all I can find is that the risk exsists but I can't find any stats on it actually happening.

There were some deaths last year in the US from memory. As for statistics, the interesting thing is that because formula is so rife in this country, most illnesses that could be attributed to artificial milk are never identified as such. They're thought to be "normal" conditions of an infant. You just need to look at any new baby discussion group online - or indeed in person - to see the number of questions about reflux, excessive wind, and other disorders that are linked to the gastrointestinal system. The most common factor is formula.

I'm not saying breastfed babies don't ever suffer, but it's much harder to find a breastfed baby with extreme, enduring gastro problems. Their wee tummies are not designed for cow's milk and all the preservatives and additives. Again, it's an uncomfortable fact, but a fact nonetheless.