Sunday Game / Spillane

Royaler78

Saw this yesterday & thought it was a good blog. Getting really tired of Spillane and co, getting a bit like Dunphy - more interested in being outrageous than actually analysing games. What do people think? Past sell-by-date or still doing a good job?

http://www.thesportsdiaries.com/2013/05/27/overhaul-needed-for-stale-sunday-game

homerjay2005

the fact that people are writing about him and talking about him on here means yes, he is doing a good job.

yop

You posted this already;
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84802930

thesultan

Think that Brolly is the best analyist but Spillane is nearly past it. Time to bring in Dara O' Cinneide instead.

Royaler78

I dunno Homer, RTE is the only show in town at the minute so they have a captive audience, but the quality is poor and descends into farce at times. Cahill at sixes and sevens at times also...

Ando's Saggy Bottom

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the fact that people are writing about him and talking about him on here means yes, he is doing a good job.

But they have no need to do it. Its not like there's an alternative channel to switch to for viewers.

Fr Tod Umptious

Spillane is too much of a filp flopper, often unwilling to admit that he is wrong.

Classic example was in 2011 when he said that if Connaught football was a 'bond', it would be rated as 'junk', then said that Mayo beating Cork a few weeks later was no suprise.

I'm sure people have other examples

Thinkstoomuch

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Spillane is too much of a filp flopper, often unwilling to admit that he is wrong.

Classic example was in 2011 when he said that if Connaught football was a 'bond', it would be rated as 'junk', then said that Mayo beating Cork a few weeks later was no sunrise.

I'm sure people have other examples

Well said,I just take what he says with a pinch of salt most times.He wrote in the Sunday newspaper a while back Cork were not all ireland contenders and were in decline.
Suddenly after Sunday he said that night we were geuine contenders and were finally after coping with beating the blanket defence.
Yet he goes on and says Limerick blanket defence was poorly opereated.He was right there,it was,so to say we have finally beaten it was a bit premature.Bigger tests lie ahead.
And that was not the real Limerick team Sat night,so I woudnt say were now all ireland contenders after that game.
We were never as bad as he said either though.He was saying we would be out of the top four.He changed hes basis on one game.
If Cork are beaten in Kerry he will say we were never all ireland contenders.
The bottom line is it is too early to judge Cork either way as we have new players and a new system with new selectors.
Killarney will tell a lot more.Thats the true test.We will know how good or bad we are then .
He then made a stupid comment about Tyrone wearing GPS systems,it affected their play. I dont think many people take much heed of what he says.
Hes famous one that he was way out of line was "Francie Bellew is a very ordinary footballer,lacking pace.my mother would be faster than most of those three fellows and she has a little bit of artritis on the knee-in reference to the 2002 all ireland final against Armagh.
The full back line were in trouble in the first half but any full back line would have been against those forwards.The second half there were brillant.They didnt concede a goal in the final.
When Armagh however with their full forward line destroyed the Kerry Full back line it was more of brillant Armagh play,nothing about Kerrys lack of pace.
He is a poor anaylst,and very biased most days.

68Murph68

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the fact that people are writing about him and talking about him on here means yes, he is doing a good job.

No it doesn't.

Not when people are actually saying that they/he is doing a bad job.

People seem to have the notion that because of the saying "any publicity is good publicity", someone attracting comment is doing a good job.

Being a sports analyst isn't the easiest job in the world - you need to straddle a line between being informative and entertaining.

The RTE pundits of Spillane, Brolly and O'Rourke rarely if ever say anything that I would classify as informative. Most of the time their comments/analysis offer about the same level of insight you'd get in any sort of decent GAA pub. Some people seem to think this is acceptable. For me they should be constantly offering above average insights - a key indicator for me is the level of insight offered through playback . Overwhelmingly on the Sunday Game they simply pick out the best points kicked plus any goals. The fact is that they rarely if ever mention tactics except in the very broadest sense. They sum up what happened rather than explaining why it happened.

While sometimes their antics can be classified as entertaining, I'd be shocked if overall they don't simply end up causing a significant number of viewers to switch over or off.

RTE can basically get away with a huge amount in terms of poor quality/lackadaisical effort because there is so little decent competition.

I think TV3 really missed a massive trick in terms of their godawful GAA coverage. If they had spent some sort of time and money, they could really have put a shot across RTE's bows. However they seemed to go for a cheapo tabloid approach in their coverage. BBC NI has their fig leaf effort of The Championship, which really just reeks of something management feels obligated to do. Setanta did a good job with the league and had decent analysts on a shoe-string. TG4 I have no real clue about the level of quality of the analysis as I don't use the language at all [My A in honours Irish was time really well spent]

I think the GAA coverage in RTE is very stale - Both Spillane and O'Rourke have been there for over 20 years. Cahill has been involved in sport in RTE for over 30 years. I'm not sure when exactly Brolly started but he has been there a long time as well. The general feeling I get is that the core team of Cahill/Spillane/O'Rourke and Brolly have a feeling that The Sunday Game is their gig and that as long as they turn up on time and don't go on air pissed off their heads the gig is theirs for life.

As such I think that RTE could easily improve their coverage by axing them. However odd are that in traditional RTE fashion they will continue to stumble along until the lads get tired of picking up their handy money and retire.

The Sunday Game will continue to pick up huge numbers and RTE will simply point to them if anyone criticises. However I'd be of the opinion that this has a lot more to do with the interest in the actual game and the numbers are in spite of the quality of the RTE's efforts rather than because of them.

2moreMinutes

Spillanes insistence on trying to make his point about Tyrone's GPS vests came across as a pathetic attempt to simply say that modern day methods are pathetic and they wouldn't go on in my day blah blah blah.
He probably has a slight point re the vests but his way of making it reminded me of Dunphy just saying something to hear his own voice.
Martin McHugh made a similar point on bbc about their value but it was in response to a question received via the tweet machine and he didn't come across as being stuck in the dark ages.

Stoner

2moreMinutes wrote: »

Martin McHugh made a similar point on bbc about their value but it was in response to a question received via the tweet machine and he didn't come across as being stuck in the dark ages.

He is stuck in 1992, did he ever tell you he won an Ireland in 1992? Well he did:).

TBH I don't know where Spillane was coming from either, I'd imagine that real match info is better than training info from the GPS, since you train to play matches, not play matches to train.

JM Skipton

I think Donal Og is going to a great analyst, his analysis of Kilkennys tactics for Brendan Cummins Puck outs was brilliant and I have not seen analysis like that from O'Rourke or Spillane

Lemlin

There's a thread now for Brolly, Eamon O'Hara's rant and this. There was also a Championship TV thread at the start of the year.

Should all the Championship TV comments not just be pulled under one thread?

Soon enough we'll have a Tohill thread and the Matt Cooper thread will start when TV3 coverage starts!

Dirty Dingus McGee

I dont watch the analysis anymore and I only half watch the Sunday night programme which is turning into a dreadful programme.Each pundit on RTE should only be allowed to be there for 5 years , it freshens things up and brings in people who are in touch with the modern game.
RTE's GAA coverage overall is dreadful considering the amount of money they have to spend.

Am I the only person who is annoyed at amount of replays shown during live matches.There is a huge amount of live action missed due to replays of incidents which happened only 5 seconds ago and don't really need to be replayed.I would say the majority of kickouts and puckouts are now missed by RTE in their live coverage.

Frankie Lee

RTE's target audience for the Sunday Game analysis. Personally I prefer the type of coverage Setanta did during the league where they discuss football rather than try outdo one another as wind up merchants.

Thinkstoomuch

JM Skipton wrote: »

I think Donal Og is going to a great analyst, his analysis of Kilkennys tactics for Brendan Cummins Puck outs was brilliant and I have not seen analysis like that from O'Rourke or Spillane

It was a superb piece by Cusack,really showed how Special a player Shefflin is.Short and sweet,to the point.
Spillane on bout a blanket from the Far east et etc....a poor poor atempt at stand up comedy.Des had to interrupt quickly or Spillane would have end up making himself sound worse than he already did.

Frankie Lee

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Am I the only person who is annoyed at amount of replays shown during live matches.There is a huge amount of live action missed due to replays of incidents which happened only 5 seconds ago and don't really need to be replayed.I would say the majority of kickouts and puckouts are now missed by RTE in their live coverage.

This annoys me greatly too, TV3 are guilty of it also. The directors could easily wait until a player goes down injured/faking injury to show replays of points or goal chances.

ProudDUB

Spillane is a joke. The whole set up is, especially having pundits on who haven't played the game in donkeys years and are utterly clueless about being involved in the modern game.

Think that the panel would be much better if there was a bit if variety...bring in one young bunk who recently retired, but rotate it so that they don't get stale or say the same things every week. Then bring in one journalist who may not have played inter county ball, but who can analyize game well, and who can get his points across in an intelligent and concise and unbiased manner. Rotate him too for freshness. Then bring in one old hand, who can bring a bit of historical perspective to it all. Rotate him too for freshness sake. Having so many old timers on there makes everything very stale.

I don't mind the replays, but what do I find very irritating are the reaction shots of people in the crowd. When a goal or a point is scored, I'd much prefer to see the reaction from the player who scored it, his team mates and manager, or the opposing sides reactions, than I would random strangers in the crowd.

Neeson

ProudDUB wrote: »

I don't mind the replays, but what do I find very irritating are the reaction shots of people in the crowd. When a goal or a point is scored, I'd much prefer to see the reaction from the player who scored it, his team mates and manager, or the opposing sides reactions, than I would random strangers in the crowd.

Part of the community thing that is a major thing in the GAA.

ProudDUB

Neeson wrote: »

Part of the community thing that is a major thing in the GAA.

That's all well and good. I don't mind if they show crowds reacting to events in addition to the player/managers reactions, but not in place of them. For example, when the ball hit the back of the net in the Donegal/Tyrone game, I would much prefer to have seen Mickey Harte's reaction to them, instead of some random people in the crowd. Wouldn't most viewers? :rolleyes:

walrusgumble

ProudDUB wrote: »

That's all well and good. I don't mind if they show crowds reacting to events in addition to the player/managers reactions, but not in place of them. For example, when the ball hit the back of the net in the Donegal/Tyrone game, I would much prefer to have seen Mickey Harte's reaction to them, instead of some random people in the crowd. Wouldn't most viewers? :rolleyes:

Yes, but people like Mickey are more reserved. But, put a microphone and camera before Davy Fitz boom, that would be entertainment.

Over the years the crowd clips have got some great images.. Always nice to see the imaginative banner or two (which are almost all banned)

That Cork man who wears the Sambro and goes to Football and Hurling games, sure he is famous

SeaFields

walrusgumble wrote: »

That Cork man who wears the Sambro and goes to Football and Hurling games, sure he is famous

Cyril? Legend boi!

padd b1975

walrusgumble wrote: »

That Cork man who wears the Sambro and goes to Football and Hurling games, sure he is famous

Famous for being an attention seeking muppet, think his name is Cyril Kavanagh.

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the fact that people are writing about him and talking about him on here means yes, he is doing a good job.

You're mistaking punditry for marketing. They do a terrible job. It's not like soccer where Dunphy and Giles are competing with ITV and Sky coverage for viewers and use their banter to attract viewers - the RTE coverage of GAA isn't competing with anything and it's just crap. We're still going to watch it because we have no choice.

corcaigh07

You should try having Spillane as a teacher/coach lads.

Lets just say there are very good reasons why he will never be a coach at any sort of high level.

Realt Dearg Sec

JM Skipton wrote: »

I think Donal Og is going to a great analyst, his analysis of Kilkennys tactics for Brendan Cummins Puck outs was brilliant and I have not seen analysis like that from O'Rourke or Spillane

To be fair the hurling coverage tends to be better. They still lean on a few 'veteran' analysts whose insights you could write in advance, but who still convey an enthusiasm and insight to the game. But the new lads Like sheedy, Brennan, have come in and done their thing without trying to make a name for themselves. They just seem to be happy to let it be about the sport with hurling, dunno why they can't do that with football instead of manufacturing some drama as though we weren't already there for some far better drama than they can conjure at half time. but look at hook and dunphy...rte have a formula, and not enough imagination to think about some risky alternative to how its always be done.

Orizio

Ger Lough aside, the hurling analysts are awful. The likes of Tomas Mul and Cyril Fanning are useless.

In truth the worst thing is the fact that they have three people up at the same time. As time is limited, you get all three talking over each other, and speaking in generalities and clichés.

It would be far better if you had just two - an analyst, and some **** stirring but intelligent bollocks to entertain people - like Loughnane/Donal Og or Brolly/Whelehan for the entire program, creating a nice contrast, allowing everyone to say what they want and offering different things to different audiences.

Rebel1977

padd b1975 wrote: »

Famous for being an attention seeking muppet, think his name is Cyril Kavanagh.

I have to agree with you he always appears when there is a camera near by

padd b1975

Rebel1977 wrote: »

I have to agree with you he always appears when there is a camera near by

The crazy thing is that all Cork supporters are great craic, but the first thing anyone ever mentions when the topic is being discussed is that guy.

NabyLadistheman

Spillane is definitely out-dated. He said that the pitch in Ballybofey was small and tight which suited Donegal. Read somewhere that pitch is actually bigger than Croker! Terrible stuff being spouted

dxhound2005

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Spillane is definitely out-dated. He said that the pitch in Ballybofey was small and tight which suited Donegal. Read somewhere that pitch is actually bigger than Croker! Terrible stuff being spouted

Wherever you read it, you didn't read it here.

http://www.hoganstand.com/forum/MessagePage.aspx?TopicID=50172

Croke Park 144m x 91m
Ballybofey Donegal 137m x 92m

theoneeyedman

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Wherever you read it, you didn't read it here.

http://www.hoganstand.com/forum/MessagePage.aspx?TopicID=50172

Croke Park 144m x 91m
Ballybofey Donegal 137m x 92m

So it's a meter wider than croker.....

An old chestnut of mine is sending the 'analysis' team to Thurles when the game is in Derry. They shoyld be at least at the game to see how teams actually set up

Neeson

They show dublins game before the more competitive and best game of the weekend which was the Derry down match?

Now that's rare.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Lads does anyone know what time Niall Carew got to sleep at last night?


That 5 minutes piece on the gap between the bigger and smaller teams shows exactly why Cahill is such a terrible presenter .A potentially interesting discussion was ruined by Des Cahill fixating on a non issue like Niall Carews sleeping habits rather than asking proper questions like what could be done to bridge the gap.Awful stuff from the Sunday game surely to god their are better presenters out there.

Justin10

Or maybe it was ruined by Pat Flanagen coming out with rubbish like Westmeath could beat Dublin in Cusack Park.
Instead of addressing why a promoted team to Div 1 got hammered.
The gap is there because of underage structure.

For example Kerry are seen to not have decent underage teams and people are hitting the panic button.
These smaller teams have even poorer underage structures.
Kildare are trying to invest in it, and have a few decent young lads on the team.

It really is that simple.

Dirty Dingus McGee

David Hanlon scored the penalty for Offaly not David Holden as the Sunday game said.

How difficult is it for them to check and get the players names right.Particularly when it was a voice over commentary and they would have had time to fix any errors they potentially made.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Rochey18 wrote: »

Or maybe it was ruined by Pat Flanagen coming out with rubbish like Westmeath could beat Dublin in Cusack Park.
Instead of addressing why a promoted team to Div 1 got hammered.
The gap is there because of underage structure.

For example Kerry are seen to not have decent underage teams and people are hitting the panic button.
These smaller teams have even poorer underage structures.
Kildare are trying to invest in it, and have a few decent young lads on the team.

It really is that simple.

The smaller counties as Pat Flanagan said have nowhere near the finances to invest in underage structure ad the bigger counties have and it is very difficult to bridge the gap when you get to senior level.A better allocation of resources by the GAA at central level to ensure all team start on somewhat a level playing field might help things

klairondavis

Rochey18 wrote: »

Or maybe it was ruined by Pat Flanagen coming out with rubbish like Westmeath could beat Dublin in Cusack Park.
Instead of addressing why a promoted team to Div 1 got hammered.
The gap is there because of underage structure.

For example Kerry are seen to not have decent underage teams and people are hitting the panic button.
These smaller teams have even poorer underage structures.
Kildare are trying to invest in it, and have a few decent young lads on the team.

It really is that simple.

It is simple to identify the solution as investing in underage structures and you are correct with that. However, generating the financial resources to do that is far from simple.

I know Kildare have pumped serious money into the development squads at underage level but that is one of the main reasons why the county board is in poor financial shape at the moment. Counties with smaller populations and without the tradition of success in football are really going to struggle in the coming years. Sustaining the level of professionalism that's needed to compete is going to prove beyond them without the financial clout that the bigger counties can generate through sponsorship and fundraising.

Justin10

Thats a cop out, It dose not cost a fortune to invest in underage system. It takes massive dedication for example Cavan, I expect them to push on, but are not going to win any All Irelands.
Flip side is Kildare accumulating massive debt on other resources, such as their Manager.
That gap has always been there. My concern would be about Galway and Meath, who are tradionally strong counties with woeful teams at the minute.
For example Westmeath got a bigger hammering off Dublin in recent years.

Problem is also a mentality. For example Dermot Early tonight saying he didn't know what stand dressing room he would be in, which aint true.
Dublin have played outside of Croke Park top of my head 6-7 times since the qualifiers have been introduced and only time they lost was against Kerry after a replay.
Dublin would have no problem playing games outside Croke Park, but the GAA needs the funds to allocate to county boards to invest.
It comes full cycle, but for Pat Flanagen to come out with that tonight is absolute rubbish.
Again its is mentality, we cant beat Dublin in Croke Park but would in Mullingar.

klairondavis

Rochey18 wrote: »

Thats a cop out, It dose not cost a fortune to invest in underage system. It takes massive dedication for example Cavan, I expect them to push on, but are not going to win any All Irelands.
Flip side is Kildare accumulating massive debt on other resources, such as their Manager.
That gap has always been there. My concern would be about Galway and Meath, who are tradionally strong counties with woeful teams at the minute.
For example Westmeath got a bigger hammering off Dublin in recent years.

Problem is also a mentality. For example Dermot Early tonight saying he didn't know what stand dressing room he would be in, which aint true.
Dublin have played outside of Croke Park top of my head 6-7 times since the qualifiers have been introduced and only time they lost was against Kerry after a replay.
Dublin would have no problem playing games outside Croke Park, but the GAA needs the funds to allocate to county boards to invest.
It comes full cycle, but for Pat Flanagen to come out with that tonight is absolute rubbish.
Again its is mentality, we cant beat Dublin in Croke Park but would in Mullingar.

It does if you want to do it properly. The counties with large budgets can afford to appoint full time development coaches to work with clubs and schools. They all have dietitians and strength & conditioning coaches advising their development squads. These young players train in dedicated county facilities and they want for nothing as regards gear and meals etc.

That level of professionalism was not there even ten years ago and it will become increasingly difficult for the minnows to compete with that.

Justin10

I agree that for example to do it at Dublin standard costs a lot of money.
But most of these teams aint even doing it half arsed correctly.

piplin

padd b1975 wrote: »

Famous for being an attention seeking muppet, think his name is Cyril Kavanagh.

Unnecessary comment really. Life long fan who's passion for Cork is uncontrollable. He has my respect.

padd b1975

piplin wrote: »

Unnecessary comment really. Life long fan who's passion for Cork is uncontrollable. He has my respect.

His support for Cork GAA is not being questioned, it's his passion for getting his mug in front of a camera lens that irks.

Syferus

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The smaller counties as Pat Flanagan said have nowhere near the finances to invest in underage structure ad the bigger counties have and it is very difficult to bridge the gap when you get to senior level.A better allocation of resources by the GAA at central level to ensure all team start on somewhat a level playing field might help things

Money is less of an issue at underage than at senior, that's where the money bag counties pull away. Ros, Tipp and Cavan are hardly flooded with playing resources or money but they've developed highly competitive underage structures through good coaching and developing strong playing bonds by the time lads hit minor.

Fully agree that revenue splitting (at senior) is the best way to allow more counties to compete for titles.

Lemlin

Syferus wrote: »

Money is less of an issue at underage than at senior, that's where the money bag counties pull away. Ros, Tipp and Cavan are hardly flooded with playing resources or money but they've developed highly competitive underage structures through good coaching and developing strong playing bonds by the time lads hit minor.

Fully agree that revenue splitting (at senior) is the best way to allow more counties to compete for titles.

One of the big successes for Cavan has been working with larger panels. Sadly, plenty of players lose interest between U16 and senior for a variety of reasons.

Rather than working with panels of 30, Cavan have simply started working with panels of up to 45 at underage level. That means when players inevitably fall by the wayside, there are replacements readily available who have been involved.

keeponhurling

theoneeyedman wrote: »

An old chestnut of mine is sending the 'analysis' team to Thurles when the game is in Derry. They shoyld be at least at the game to see how teams actually set up

I was just thinking that yesterday alright. You're paying people handsomely to analyse the match, but they're not actually at the match!

That makes absolutely no sense to me. Big difference between being at the game and watching what the TV shows.

walrusgumble

padd b1975 wrote: »

His support for Cork GAA is not being questioned, it's his passion for getting his mug in front of a camera lens that irks.

So what?

It brings colour

You think, those people, over the years, who created really funny and rememorable Banners were not hoping to get caught on TV? (I accept that fella with John 3: 16 or whatever, has a genuine religious thing and loves GAA)

davegrohl48

Aidan O'Rourke had a good cut at the Sunday Game.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=193866
Think the jig is slowly going to be up on the format.
For instance Emmet Ryan of "Tactics not passion" had decent enough sales. A pure analysis and tactical side of Gaelic football matches/teams in 2012. So it surely shows there is an active audience out there for something better than current.
His current championship game analysis is outstanding. I won't post the link if you're interested you probably already know his blog.
What does be most interesting is when he analyses one sided games like Mayo - Galway. All you would hear on the Sunday game would be "Galway lacked Mayos hunger".
Stats have to improve as well.
- How many scores from attempts has Colm Cooper had in championship and league? We'll never know.
- What was Neil Gallaghers kickout catch rate last year?
- What was Colm McFaddens success rate from frees last year? I read in Independent i think it was a ridiculous 96%, but sure Donegal have a system. No need to search for any clues to success beyond that.
- How many misplaced passes did Karl Lacey have?
List goes on, interesting snippets and career signposts just slipping by each week.

ProudDUB

davegrohl48 wrote: »

- How many scores from attempts has Colm Cooper had in championship and league? We'll never know.
- What was Neil Gallaghers kickout catch rate last year?
- What was Colm McFaddens success rate from frees last year? I read in Independent i think it was a ridiculous 96%, but sure Donegal have a system. No need to search for any clues to success beyond that.
- How many misplaced passes did Karl Lacey have?
List goes on, interesting snippets and career signposts just slipping by each week.

I agree with this 1000%. Far, far too much for what passes for analysis these days, lacks any sort of numerical data to back it up. I am not saying that these guys should be turned into into numbers crunching robots. Nor am I saying that there should never be discussion of things that can not be measured numerically....hunger, heart, passion etc etc, but there should be a balance between the two imo.

davegrohl48

ProudDUB wrote: »

I agree with this 1000%. Far, far too much for what passes for analysis these days, lacks any sort of numerical data to back it up. I am not saying that these guys should be turned into into numbers crunching robots. Nor am I saying that there should never be discussion of things that can not be measured numerically....hunger, heart, passion etc etc, but there should be a balance between the two imo.

It would be interesting to see Colm Coopers career playing stats:
- Rarely misses when takes on a shot
- must have the highest percentage success rate for attempts for goals. It's incredible how accurate he is when he decides to take it on
- When does he ever lose posession through being tackled, bad pass to a teammate or fumble?

ProudDUB

Agreed. It would be great to see those stats not just for each individual game, but compared to other games in a season, and then compared season to season. Other sports and TV networks can do it. I don't know why the GAA and RTE can't or don't or won't. The technology out there these days makes it incredibly easy to do and keep track of.