Multiculturalism - a failed ideal?

FTA69

What about Lenny Henry? Or Frank Bruno? Or Lennox Lewis? Or So Solid Crew? What about Amir Khan or Seal? Can they be considered English?

BluntGuy

Bertie Woot wrote: »

There were thousands of people on that forum, and most opposed the unrequested and undemocratic imposition of multiculturalism on their country. That speaks of dissatisfaction with multiculturalism.

I don't think you can use an internet forum as a reliable snapshot of the general population. In case you missed it btw, can I have some evidence to back up your claim here:

Most indigenous English people hate present day England because they have seen undemocratic and unrequested mass immigration erode the traditional culture and ethnic make-up of their country and transform it into "a foreign land" where they no longer feel at home.

***

I don't follow football and know nothing of Ian Wright's background.

Ian Wright was born in London, to Jamaican immigrants. Is he English?

Nodin

Bertie Woot wrote:

Mosley's Union of Fascists put him outside the sensibilities of most British
people, just as the BNP and other far right groups have experienced similar for themselves. The British like moderate politics, not radical, and even if those radical parties are highlighting real domestic problems and some home truths.

Yet according to you, "the British" hold radical views on immigration. Rather bizarre they won't vote for the party that echoes those views exactly. In fact neither the BNP or the National Front have ever won as much as a single parliamentary seat. Ne'er a one. Whatevefr about saying an overall majority is impossible for a party viewed as radical, it can hardly be said the majority of an electorate hold radical views when they haven't voted in a single member of a party over 40 or years.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Are you suggesting that via immigration France has not become a more multicultural country? How on earth does a society with many cultures in it have a choice on whether or not to "practice multiculturalism"? How are immigration and increased multiculturalism not correlated?.

I'ved tried numerous times to explain this to you.

As a normative term, it refers to ideologies or policies that promote this
diversity or its institutionalisation; in this sense, multiculturalism is a
society “at ease with the rich tapestry of human life and the desire amongst
people to express their own identity in the manner they see fit.”[2] Such
ideologies or policies vary widely, including country to country,[3] ranging
from the advocacy of equal respect to the various cultures in a society, to a
policy of promoting the maintenance of cultural diversity, to policies in which people of
various ethnic and religious groups are addressed by the authorities as
defined by the group they belong to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism

The French have many cultures in their country, but do not practice multiculturalism. Your definition of multi-culturalism seems to be "immigrants in the country". Its a bit misleading.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

And what is your view? .

Britain seems to be working fairly well, in the main. London in particular.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

I don't follow football and know nothing of Ian Wright's background.

Try google. In addition, others have provided examples you might consider.

walshb

I think for the most part that extremism is the issue, whether that be from those immigrating to a country, or those who have been there all their lives. Like it or not, mixing people in areas can cause problems. Can be quite beneficial too. It's a risk that can lead to success or failure.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

What about Lenny Henry? Or Frank Bruno? Or Lennox Lewis? Or So Solid Crew? What about Amir Khan or Seal? Can they be considered English?

To many English people I would say no, they can't or aren't considered English. Skin colour is a factor for many people. English by birth.

Bertie Woot

BluntGuy wrote: »

I don't think you can use an internet forum as a reliable snapshot of the general population. In case you missed it btw, can I have some evidence to back up your claim here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2059116/100-000-signatures-mass-immigration.html

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/41492

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247258/Immigration-Labours-unforgivable-betrayal-British-people.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301743/How-invasion-immigrants-corner-England-mockery-PMs-promise-close-door.html

Ian Wright was born in London, to Jamaican immigrants. Is he English?

I'm an Ulster Protestant, born in Belfast to descendants of British colonial settlers of the Ulster plantation, both English and Scottish. My culture is distinctly British.

Am I Irish?

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

To many English people I would say no, they can't or aren't considered English. Skin colour is a factor for many people. English by birth.

Many arseholes maybe. John Barnes got terrible abuse when he started playing for England but that sort of attitude is now thankfully considered nonsense in mainstream society. If you take the attitude that Amir Khan or Sol Campbell aren't English and nor can they ever be due to the colour of their skin you are simply setting up a permanent barrier based on race alone. They, their children and their grandchildren will forever be stigmatised as foreigners in the country of their birth, where does it end? Is it possible for the children of Irish, Greek and Polish immigrants to fairly have an English identity but impossible for the children and grand children of Pakistanis, Nigerians and Jamaicans?

Thankfully Britain hasn't gone down that route in the eyes of most sensible people, and I'll be out the gap if it does.

FTA69

Bertie Woot wrote: »

I'm an Ulster Protestant, born in Belfast to descendants of British colonial settlers of the Ulster plantation, both English and Scottish. My culture is distinctly British.

Am I Irish?

Of course you are.

Nodin

Bertie Woot wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2059116/100-000-signatures-mass-immigration.html

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/41492

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247258/Immigration-Labours-unforgivable-betrayal-British-people.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301743/How-invasion-immigrants-corner-England-mockery-PMs-promise-close-door.html

And that proves what, exactly? There are not nor ever have been BNP or national front MP's. Not one. Petitions and opinion pieces in the mail change that not a jot.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

I'm an Ulster Protestant, born in Belfast to descendants of British colonial settlers of the Ulster plantation, both English and Scottish. My culture is distinctly British.

Am I Irish?

Is there some reason you're unable to answer the question?

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

hedgehog2

Bertie Woot wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2059116/100-000-signatures-mass-immigration.html

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/41492

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247258/Immigration-Labours-unforgivable-betrayal-British-people.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301743/How-invasion-immigrants-corner-England-mockery-PMs-promise-close-door.html



I'm an Ulster Protestant, born in Belfast to descendants of British colonial settlers of the Ulster plantation, both English and Scottish. My culture is distinctly British.

Am I Irish?

Belfast is on the island of Ireland hence your Irish Bertie.

Cody Pomeray

Bertie Woot wrote: »

My culture is distinctly British.

What would be the main day-to-day components of "your culture"?

Bertie Woot

Nodin wrote: »

Yet according to you, "the British" hold radical views on immigration. Rather bizarre they won't vote for the party that echoes those views exactly. In fact neither the BNP or the National Front have ever won as much as a single parliamentary seat. Ne'er a one. Whatevefr about saying an overall majority is impossible for a party viewed as radical, it can hardly be said the majority of an electorate hold radical views when they haven't voted in a single member of a party over 40 or years.

Show me exactly where I have said "the British hold radical views on immigration".

The BNP and other far right parties have been successfully demonised by the politically correct British government, media and establishment. Many British people have been PC brainwashed and are afraid to voice any opposition to mass immigration and multiculturalism for fear of being branded "a racist".

I'ved tried numerous times to explain this to you.

No you haven't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism

The French have many cultures in their country, but do not practice multiculturalism. Your definition of multi-culturalism seems to be "immigrants in the country". Its a bit misleading.

No it's not.

"French Immigration Policy was made law on May 11th 1998, which stipulated that immigrants seeking asylum will have more rights to live in France. Its main aim was to give foreign nationals more rights in terms of residency, which takes the form of new entry visas categories. The French are extending residency permits and increasing foreign national's time in France through this Entry and Residence Act of Foreigners and the Right to Seek Asylum, which also stipulates that immigration cases will be treated fairy by French officials."

http://homepages.uel.ac.uk/u0106050/FrenchImmigrationPolicyPage.htm

Are you suggesting that via their immigration policy the French government are not making France a more multicultural country?

Britain seems to be working fairly well, in the main. London in particular.

Are you kidding? London is now a minority white city, as is Luton, Leicester and Slough, with Birmingham soon set to follow. Fanatical Islamists run around the streets of London attempting to impose Shariah Law by screaming at people to cover themselves up, to not drink alcohol and to stay away from Mosques.

If Dublin became minority white and you had Islamists hollering at you and telling you how to dress and behave, how would you feel about that? If you witnessed a 22 year old being stabbed to death in broad daylight because he was in the Irish Army, would you not object?

Bertie Woot

hedgehog2 wrote: »

Belfast is on the island of Ireland hence your Irish Bertie.

But am I not also British by land of ancestral origin, culture and ethnicity, the fact that Belfast is in the UK, I hold a full british passport and am thus a British citizen?

Bertie Woot

Nodin wrote: »

And that proves what, exactly? There are not nor ever have been BNP or national front MP's. Not one. Petitions and opinion pieces in the mail change that not a jot.

English people have been brainwashed by the politically correct establishment to believe that if you voice any opposition to mass immigration and multiculturalism you are a racist, which is utter nonsense. And your attempt to play down the opposition that exists despite this is risible and makes you look distinctly foolish.

Is there some reason you're unable to answer the question?

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

What determines nationality? Is it country of birth? Land of origin? The nationality you choose? The nationality someone else assigns to you? All or none of these? Give me a universally accepted definition of 'nationality', and I'll answer your question.

Nodin

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Show me exactly where I have said "the British hold radical views on immigration".

I spent two years on a British forum and all they did was complain about
immigration, multiculturalism and Islam. They yearned for a return to the
pre-1948 era, before immigration into the UK became an issue. Most indigenous English people hate present day England because they have seen undemocratic and unrequested mass immigration erode the traditional culture and ethnic make-up of their country and transform it into "a foreign land" where they no longer feel
at home.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84809610&postcount=19
There ye go.

Bertie woot wrote:

The BNP and other far right parties have been successfully demonised by the politically correct British government, media and establishment. Many British people have been PC brainwashed and are afraid to voice any opposition to mass immigration and multiculturalism for fear of being branded "a racist".

....yet still, their views - according to you - reflect that of most of the population and they've never won a single Westminister seat? Very odd.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

No you haven't..

Here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84807909&postcount=15
and here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84821556&postcount=34
the links and definitions are in those posts. You don't seem to have bothered reading either thus far.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

No it's not.

"French Immigration Policy was made law on May 11th 1998, which stipulated that immigrants seeking asylum will have more rights to live in France. Its main aim was to give foreign nationals more rights in terms of residency, which takes the form of new entry visas categories. The French are extending residency permits and increasing foreign national's time in France through this Entry and Residence Act of Foreigners and the Right to Seek Asylum, which also stipulates that immigration cases will be treated fairy by French officials."

http://homepages.uel.ac.uk/u0106050/FrenchImmigrationPolicyPage.htm

Are you suggesting that via their immigration policy the French government are not making France a more multicultural country?..

You seem to be unable to define your terms. Yes there will be more people from different cultures in the country, but the French state does not practice multiculturalism. There is no recognition of religion or race in official statistics and it is, afaik, illegal for a state agency to collate same. All are considered French and equal once granted citizenship.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Are you kidding? London is now a minority white city, as is Luton, Leicester and Slough, with Birmingham soon set to follow. ..

Again - why is skin colour such an issue?

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Fanatical Islamists run around the streets of London attempting to impose Shariah Law by screaming at people to cover themselves up, to not drink alcohol and to stay away from Mosques. ..

A tiny fringe group in a city of some 8 million.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

If Dublin became minority white ...........

Again - skin colour......

You seem to have missed the question I've asked earlier

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

FTA69

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Are you kidding? London is now a minority white city

London is 60% white. It's about 45% English but there are also large numbers of Irish as well as western and eastern Europeans living here.

Fanatical Islamists run around the streets of London attempting to impose Shariah Law by screaming at people to cover themselves up, to not drink alcohol and to stay away from Mosques.

That happened a couple of times in East London and the gobsh*tes in question were roundly condemned by locals and the police shut them down almost immediately. You'd swear East London was a no-go area for non-Muslims the way you're banging on. If the hipsters in question had thrown a few digs at the numpties in question instead of handing over a bag of cans there'd have been no more said about it.

The nutters in that video are indeed a disgrace, but thankfully they are nowhere near representative.

If Dublin became minority white

No fear of that mate.

Bertie Woot

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84809610&postcount=19
There ye go.

If you examine what you've bolded carefully, nowhere have I said that the English hold "radical views". Nowhere. That is just your interpretation of what I've said.

....yet still, their views - according to you - reflect that of most of the population and they've never won a single Westminister seat? Very odd.

Which part of English people being gagged by the PC establishment are you failing to comprehend?

Here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84807909&postcount=15
and here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84821556&postcount=34
the links and definitions are in those posts. You don't seem to have bothered reading either thus far.

Arbitrary definitions of multiculturalism aren't much help. Are you realistically suggesting that via their immigration policies, France and the UK are not practicing and promoting multiculturalism, by creating a more multicultural society?

You seem to be unable to define your terms. Yes there will be more people from different cultures in the country, but the French state does not practice multiculturalism. There is no recognition of religion or race in official statistics and it is, afaik, illegal for a state agency to collate same. All are considered French and equal once granted citizenship.

There is no no recognition of religion or race in official statistics? Really?

Scroll down to "religions" and "ethnic groups":

http://www.indexmundi.com/france/demographics_profile.html

Again - why is skin colour such an issue?

Because before 1948 Britain was a predominantly white country. Mass immigration under Blair and sustained by Clegg and Cameron has had a huge transformational impact, and now one English city after another is becoming minority white. The entire ethnic ethos of Britain is being transmogrified, and without the consent of the British people.

A tiny fringe group in a city of some 8 million.

Play it down if you must, and to your detriment.

Again - skin colour......

You seem to have missed the question I've asked earlier

You seemed to have missed the questions I asked, so for your benefit I'll repeat them:

If Dublin became minority white and you had Islamists hollering at you and telling you how to dress and behave, how would you feel about that? If you witnessed a 22 year old being stabbed to death in broad daylight because he was in the Irish Army, would you not object?

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

You seem to be stuck on nationality. Give me the universally accepted definition of nationality I have requested, and I'll answer your question

Bertie Woot

FTA69 wrote: »

London is 60% white. It's about 45% English but there are also large numbers of Irish as well as western and eastern Europeans living here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246288/Census-2011-UK-immigrant-population-jumps-THREE-MILLION-10-years.html

FTA69

London is 60% white. The English aren't the only whites in the city like. There are also Poles, Russians, Irish, Greeks and every other European nationality. The traditional white working class in London is migrating to places like Kent while the more prosperous types go to Surrey and Beds etc. The article also states that nearly 9 in 10 of people in the UK as a whole are white British and a mere 1 in 20 are Muslim. Is that really cause for alarm?

Nodin

Bertie Woot wrote: »

If you examine what you've bolded carefully, nowhere have I said that the English hold "radical views". Nowhere. That is just your interpretation of what I've said.

You have ascribed radical views to the english population. Thats the same difference.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Which part of English people being gagged by the PC establishment are you failing to comprehend?.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. The BNP and National Front are not banned from the air, their views are well known, yet they've never won a seat.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Arbitrary definitions of multiculturalism aren't much help. Are you realistically suggesting that via their immigration policies, France and the UK are not practicing and promoting multiculturalism, by creating a more multicultural society? .

The British do promote multiculturalism, the French do not. Immigration and a multicultural ideology are not the same thing, as has been pointed out to you numerous times.

Bertie Woot wrote: »

There is no no recognition of religion or race in official statistics? Really?

Scroll down to "religions" and "ethnic groups":

http://www.indexmundi.com/france/demographics_profile.html
.

Estimates from non-government sources.

A law dating from 1872 forbids the collection by the state of census data
based on questions about religious beliefs, because the Third Republic
considered that kind of information to be private. This principle was reaffirmed in a law passed on 6 January 1978 (Article 8) which states that “It is forbidden to collect or process data of a personal nature related to racial or ethnic origins as well as political, philosophic or religious opinions

http://plus.lefigaro.fr/note/how-does-france-count-its-muslim-population-20110407-435643

Bertie Woot wrote:

Because before 1948 Britain was a predominantly white
country. Mass immigration under Blair and sustained by Clegg and
Cameron has had a huge transformational impact, and now one English city after another is becoming minority white. The entire ethnic
ethos of Britain is being transmogrified, and without the consent of
the British people.

Obsessed with skin colour again.

What is an "ethnic ethos"?

You seemed to have missed the questions I asked, so for your benefit I'll
repeat them:
If Dublin became minority white and you had Islamists hollering at you and
telling you how to dress and behave, how would you feel about that? If you
witnessed a 22 year old being stabbed to death in broad daylight because he was
in the Irish Army, would you not object?

Skin colour isn't really that big a deal.

Having had religous types "holler" at me before, I'd imagine it would be amusing, though probably not for them.

Yes, I would object if I saw somebody stabbed.

Bertie Woot wrote:

You seem to be stuck on nationality. Give me the universally accepted definition of nationality I have requested, and I'll answer your question

You'll note I bolded the "you" a few posts back. The above is why. I want to know what you think.

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

Why are you fixated on skin colour?

Bertie Woot

FTA69 wrote: »

London is 60% white. The English aren't the only whites in the city like. There are also Poles, Russians, Irish, Greeks and every other European nationality. The traditional white working class in London is migrating to places like Kent while the more prosperous types go to Surrey and Beds etc.

Still doesn't dilute the fact that just 44.9% of Londoners are White British. The indigenous British white flight from the city of London is being caused by the large numbers of immigrants of all races and nationalities flooding into them.

The article also states that nearly 9 in 10 of people in the UK as a whole are white British and a mere 1 in 20 are Muslim. Is that really cause for alarm?

Many british people seem to think so, as there are areas where the saturation of immigrants is more concentrated than in others, thus causing social tensions. It is not the overall numbers that are causing concerns, it is their uneven national spread, and the more radical element of Islam coming to the fore.

Bertie Woot

Nodin wrote: »

You have ascribed radical views to the english population. Thats the same difference.

No I havent, you have.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. The BNP and National Front are not banned from the air, their views are well known, yet they've never won a seat.

The British people are terrified of speaking out on immigration and multiculturalism for fear of being branded 'a racist'. The BNP have been successfully demonised by the PC establishment, and people are afraid to vote for them.

The British do promote multiculturalism, the French do not. Immigration and a multicultural ideology are not the same thing, as has been pointed out to you numerous times.

Regardless of whether France promotes multiculturalism or not, via their immigration policy they are creating a more multicultural society.

Estimates from non-government sources.

And they are accurate.

Obsessed with skin colour again.

What is an "ethnic ethos"?

I know you're gagging to call me "a wacist!".

Google ethnic and ethos, then put the two definitions together.

Skin colour isn't really that big a deal.

Having had religous types "holler" at me before, I'd imagine it would be amusing, though probably not for them.

Yes, I would object if I saw somebody stabbed.

Why would you object if a Muslim stabbed an Irish soldier to death in front of you? Be specific.

You'll note I bolded the "you" a few posts back. The above is why. I want to know what you think.

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

Why are you fixated on skin colour?

I've asked you for a universally accepted definition of "nationality" twice thus far, and twice you've failed to provide one so as to permit me to answer your question. Do you want me to answer your question or not?

And you are obfuscating skin color with both race and nationality. Bit clumsy.

Cody Pomeray

Bertie Woot wrote: »

I've asked you for a universally accepted definition of "nationality" twice

Use your own interpretation.

You seem willing to perpetuate your opinions in every other respect... don't get shy on us now.

Nodin

Bertie Woot wrote: »

No I havent, you have..

You stated

Most indigenous English people hate present day England because they have seen undemocratic and unrequested mass immigration erode the traditional culture and ethnic make-up of their country and transform it into "a foreign land" where they no longer feel at home.

Thats a radical view, which you ascribed to "most indigenous english people".

Bertie Woot wrote:

The British people are terrified of speaking out on immigration and
multiculturalism for fear of being branded 'a racist'. The BNP have been
successfully demonised by the PC establishment, and people are afraid to vote for them.

To the extent that they never gained a single westminister seat? Despite the fact that they would - according to you - represent the views of "most indigenous english people"?

Bertie Woot wrote:

Regardless of whether France promotes multiculturalism or not, via their
immigration policy they are creating a more multicultural society.

"multicultural" in the loose sense of the word. So?

Bertie Woot wrote:

And they are accurate.

It's impossible to say, there being no official statistics to compare with. Besides, I never questioned their accuracy.

Bertie Woot wrote:

I know you're gagging to call me "a wacist!".
Google ethnic and ethos, then put the two definitions together..

I'm asking you what it means, you having used the term.

Bertie Woot wrote:

Why would you object if a Muslim stabbed an Irish soldier to death in front of
you? Be specific.

Of course. Why should it have to be a muslim?

Bertie Woot wrote:

I've asked you for a universally accepted definition of "nationality" twice thus far, and twice you've failed to provide one so as to permit me to answer your question. Do you want me to answer your question or not?

And you are obfuscating skin color with both race and nationality. Bit clumsy.

I'm not interested in others definitions, I'm interested in yours.

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

Why are you fixated on skin colour?

What is an "ethnic ethos"?

laoch na mona

Bertie Woot wrote: »

The BNP have been successfully demonised by the PC establishment, and people are afraid to vote for them.

maybe its because the bnp is racist?
no one knows who you vote for so why would someone be afraid

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Regardless of whether France promotes multiculturalism or not, via their immigration policy they are creating a more multicultural society.

no they are not because they push assimilation meaning immigrants become french

BluntGuy

Bertie Woot wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2059116/100-000-signatures-mass-immigration.html

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/41492

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247258/Immigration-Labours-unforgivable-betrayal-British-people.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301743/How-invasion-immigrants-corner-England-mockery-PMs-promise-close-door.html

Just so no one forgets, you're presenting this as evidence for the following:

Most indigenous English people hate present day England because they have seen undemocratic and unrequested mass immigration erode the traditional culture and ethnic make-up of their country and transform it into "a foreign land" where they no longer feel at home.

So we have three opinion pieces, on of which is written by the chairman of an anti-immigration group, an online petition against started by same, against the population reaching 70 million, and another petition against relaxing the EU restrictions of immigration from Bulgaria and Romania. Interestingly both petitions topped out short of 150,000.

Sorry but that isn't very convincing evidence of your claim.

I'm an Ulster Protestant, born in Belfast to descendants of British colonial settlers of the Ulster plantation, both English and Scottish. My culture is distinctly British.

Am I Irish?

You seem to be reveling in avoiding answering the question. I notice Nodin has asked several times, but I'll restate it too. Is Ian Wright English, according to you. Not sure why this is such a difficult question.

The British people are terrified of speaking out on immigration and multiculturalism for fear of being branded 'a racist'. The BNP have been successfully demonised by the PC establishment, and people are afraid to vote for them.

Have you ever considered that maybe people actually don't want to vote for a racist party? Seems to me that the people who go on about political correctness, are in the main unhappy that bigotry isn't considered a legitimate viewpoint.

Bertie Woot

Nodin wrote: »

You stated



Thats a radical view, which you ascribed to "most indigenous english people".



To the extent that they never gained a single westminister seat? Despite the fact that they would - according to you - represent the views of "most indigenous english people"?




"multicultural" in the loose sense of the word. So?



It's impossible to say, there being no official statistics to compare with. Besides, I never questioned their accuracy.



I'm asking you what it means, you having used the term.



Of course. Why should it have to be a muslim?




I'm not interested in others definitions, I'm interested in yours.

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

Why are you fixated on skin colour?

What is an "ethnic ethos"?

Denial, evasion, repetition and bollocking about seems to be your thing, and no doubt you think that's clever. When you're ready for a serious discussion on multiculturalism, feel free to make an intelligent contribution to this thread.

Nodin

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Denial, evasion, repetition and bollocking about seems to be your thing, and no doubt you think that's clever. When you're ready for a serious discussion on multiculturalism, feel free to make an intelligent contribution to this thread.

You might point out where I've indulged in "evasion" blank denial and "bollocking".

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

Why are you fixated on skin colour? You've mentioned it numerous times.

You stated

Bertie Woot wrote:

The entire ethnic ethos of Britain is being transmogrified, and without the consent of the British people.

What is an "ethnic ethos"?

Bertie Woot

BluntGuy wrote: »

Just so no one forgets, you're presenting this as evidence for the following:

So we have three opinion pieces, on of which is written by the chairman of an anti-immigration group, an online petition against started by same, against the population reaching 70 million, and another petition against relaxing the EU restrictions of immigration from Bulgaria and Romania. Interestingly both petitions topped out short of 150,000.

Sorry but that isn't very convincing evidence of your claim.

Can you provide better alternative evidence to refute my claim ie. something which states that the majority of British people are happy about the government's sustainment of mass immigration and multiculturalism?

You seem to be reveling in avoiding answering the question. I notice Nodin has asked several times, but I'll restate it too. Is Ian Wright English, according to you. Not sure why this is such a difficult question.

Perhaps you're as not bright and/or determined to derail this thread as Nodin? Perhaps you too are unable to provide a simple, universally accepted definition of "nationality"? Not sure why providing one thus far is so difficult.

Have you ever considered that maybe people actually don't want to vote for a racist party? Seems to me that the people who go on about political correctness, are in the main unhappy that bigotry isn't considered a legitimate viewpoint.

Post me a link to where the BNP have unequivocally stated "we are a racist party".

Bertie Woot

Nodin wrote: »

You might point out where I've indulged in "evasion" blank denial and "bollocking".

Do you think Ian Wright is english? Likewise Frank Bruno, Lennox Lewis, Jermain Defoe, Samit Patel?

Why are you fixated on skin colour? You've mentioned it numerous times.

You stated

What is an "ethnic ethos"?

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