Does it annoy anyone else....

GAAman

When a TV show or Film ruins another film for you? A few examples, today I watched Tower Heist and a throwaway line in it about the film The Boys From Brazil (Funnily enough Ben Stiller is in Tower Heist and his mother is in TBFB) ruined said film when I watched it there now on netflix. Fantastic performances by Gregory Peck and Laurence Olivier, but again because I knew what was coming it was fecked for me!

An episode of The Simpsons ruined Soylent Green for me, an episode of The Sopranos ruined Citizen Kane.

I am sure there are plenty other examples I can't think of right now but surely I can't be the only one who gets pi$$ed off when this happens?

:mad:

Sad Professor

The examples you give are all classic films though. Is it possible you only watched them in the end because of the (spoilerish) references they received in other films/tv shows?

In any case, knowing what Rosebud is doesn't ruin Citizen Kane. In fact, any film that can genuinely be ruined by knowing the ending or plot twist in advance just isn't a very good film. The Sixth Sense, The Crying Game and The Usual Suspects spring to mind. A good film has a story rather than just being a series of events. If every film were as plot-driven as the ones I mentioned then there would be no reason to ever re-watch a film.

GAAman

Ok I agree on the Kane one that was just one that I could recall as I was reminded of it due to a repeat episode of The Sopranos on tv the other night.

I would not agree though that I watch the films because of the references I love old films, and as you said they are classics. By that very definition they stand the test of time as much by people rewatching them as by people who have never seen them before so having spoilers in modern productions will kill some of the excitement for newer viewers.

Even in the examples you gave, The Crying Game, another film on my to watch list but thanks to Father Ted of all things I know what to expect!

johnny_ultimate

To be honest, once a reasonable amount of time has passed its absolutely fair game to talk about plot details. To be spoiler cautious about films twenty, thirty, eighty years old is pointless - we'd never be able to talk about film in any depth or ingrain them into overall social consciousness if we didn't eventually assume a majority of the audience will be familiar with the film after decades have passed. If, for example, the endings of Soylent Green and Planet of the Apes were sacrosanct (heck even Citizen Kane), we wouldn't have been gifted with some of the finest Simpsons satires. Frankly, the inspired gags are probably more worthwhile than the initial surprise, even if the films have stood the test of time (although dont think Soylent Green was ever the most respected film ever made).

And I agree with Prof. - most of the films that rely solely on their plot and twists don't tend to be the ones worth remembering in the first place. Films are so much more about how they're crafted and why things happen than what happens on a purely literal plot level. When we watch a Shakespeare tragedy, the final outcome is never in any doubt. We instead need to admire the language, the themes, the direction, the performances etc... - and that's why they're still vital centuries later. It's the same with film. A great story will still engross you even if you know who dies at the end. People don't spend their time analysing Citizen Kane because of Rosebud, even if it is pivotal the the character's arc and psychology - it's respected more because it was a revolutionary achievement in cinematic structure and redefining the way films are shot and put together (probably the same reason so many find it boring, although TBH I find Kane's character fascinating too).

In some cases being aware of everything can be advantageous. The reason Fight Club's twist work is they make us re-evaluate how well everything was put together. Sure, the surprise is fun first time, but even more satisfying is knowing the final destination next time around and seeing what a brilliantly cheeky puzzle box Fincher has crafted without losing any thematic depth.

It's always nice to go in blind where possible, and caution should be taken when it comes to new films especially (although I wish the Internet wasn't such a spoiler averse place generally so we could talk about things more openly, especially in the inherently derivative blockbusters that tend to whip people into a spoiler frenzy, but that's an aside). I certainly wouldn't go actively seeking out a plot synopsis before sitting down to watch something. But a great film will always be worth watching even with knowledge about its plot. If lack of knowledge about basic plot mattered that much, we'd never be able to rewatch and reappraise films. Literal plot is only one part of a film's operations, and really so often the least important. Great films will still surprise, impress and wow whether its a blind first viewing or fifth rewatch. It's never worth taking a 'spoiler' (such a loaded word!) as a personal insult, and certainly should never put you off watching something.

Skerries

I have this t-shirt to piss people off

krudler

Some films become ingrained so much in popular culture it's impossible to not have them spoiled, but like was said it wouldn't actually ruin the film for me, between reading magazines about film or discussing them over the years you're bound to have scenes, twists, reveals and plot devices ruined for you. Big difference between spoiling something recent and spoiling a movie from 20-30 years ago. There's tons of films I knew details about before watching them, didn't stop me enjoying them at all.

Films that rely solely on a twist are usually the ones that fall apart on second viewing, The Usual Suspects being one, a load of it makes no sense when you know who Keyser Soze is.

I'm pretty sure you could assemble Citizen Kane in it's entirety from the amount of times The Simpsons has parodied it :pac:

Fysh

Since Soylent Green and Planet Of The Apes have been mentioned, I think it's key to consider that it's not really a spoiler when key details are given away by the film's home release cover art. The same is true of The Wicker Man.

Generally, though, I'd agree with johnny_ultimate & Sad Professor - there has to be some point where we draw the line re: spoilers. I had The Boys From Brazil "spoiled" for me by the introduction to the V For Vendetta comic; I hadn't heard of it at the time, and that spoilery mention of it was what made me watch it. I still enjoyed it, though.

For me the flipside of this phenomenon is the number of horror films (particularly slasher or zombie films) where characters are presented with textbook horror scenarios and do what nobody who's ever seen or even heard of a horror film would do; and yet the only exceptions to this tendency are the tongue-in-cheek horror-comedies like Shaun Of The Dead or Cabin In The Woods.

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Mickeroo

The only time I can recall this happening to me was when I watched The Graduate for the first time, I knew the ending beat for beat without ever having seen it mainly due to the amount of times it's been parodied since. Wayne's World and The Simpsons being the biggest culprits.

Having said that it didn't ruin the film at all for me, mainly because its such a brilliant film anyway but also because it's nice to finally see something properly for the first time that's so iconic and ingrained in popular culture. Almost like visiting a famous landmark or place in a way.

krudler

^ Exactly, a lot of times something being parodied makes me want to see the original film the joke or spoof is based on.

blue note

What can be even more annoying is when you think you know the twist at the end. You enjoy the whole film less because you "know" what's going to happen. Then it doesn't even happen which just makes it an anti-climax.

It's just like watching a match that you know the score of. There's no real excitement because you know how it's going to end.

Anyway, I have a box set of all the games from Italia 90 at home. Our match against Italy is next to watch. I think we have a great chance. Anyone ruins it on me and they're dead!

thegreatiam

tbh i hate even the idea of spoiler. sure time sensitive things like todays match or this weeks episode, film that are only on in the cinema then yes people should be careful of ruining the enjoyment for someone else.

series is on repeats, the match is history or the movie is on its run on TV then its your own fault you didnt see it yet. dont ruin our chat by screaming spoiler.

Getting pissed off at being told the end of a film release a lifetime ago is a bit much. The only way youll avoid this is by locking yourself in a room for a few years with every classic movie ever made.

Or only watching movies in the order they were released from now on, start in 1905.

krudler

thegreatiam wrote: »

tbh i hate even the idea of spoiler. sure time sensitive things like todays match or this weeks episode, film that are only on in the cinema then yes people should be careful of ruining the enjoyment for someone else.

series is on repeats, the match is history or the movie is on its run on TV then its your own fault you didnt see it yet. dont ruin our chat by screaming spoiler.

Getting pissed off at being told the end of a film release a lifetime ago is a bit much. The only way youll avoid this is by locking yourself in a room for a few years with every classic movie ever made.

Or only watching movies in the order they were released from now on, start in 1905.

Agree, unless its something fairly obscure, now "obscure" is relative as not everyone is a film geek but some movies are ingrained in pop culture to a degree where its impossible to not know something about them, like in fairness if you haven't seen Psycho by now it's your own fault.

pookiesboo

I dont like it when somebody tells me "theres a great twist to the end of the film" and I guess the twist halfway through ala Sixth Sense, The Others etc.

thegreatiam

pookiesboo wrote: »

I dont like it when somebody tells me "theres a great twist to the end of the film" and I guess the twist halfway through ala Sixth Sense, The Others etc.

The 'twist' in sixth sense was obvious even from the trailer. So when I went to watch it with the expectation of a great twist I was disappointed it was so predictable.

The reverse of 'spoiler' ruined that movie as I was so keen on spotting the clever twist I didn't even twig that he might already be dead, as I just assumed that from the beginning.

pookiesboo

thegreatiam wrote: »

The 'twist' in sixth sense was obvious even from the trailer. So when I went to watch it with the expectation of a great twist I was disappointed it was so predictable.

The reverse of 'spoiler' ruined that movie as I was so keen on spotting the clever twist I didn't even twig that he might already be dead, as I just assumed that from the beginning.

Of course you guessed it! You're the Great I Am! :pac:

thegreatiam

pookiesboo wrote: »

Of course you guessed it! You're the Great I Am! :pac:

of course! ;-)

I didnt guess it tho. I thought it was the point of the film, I was trying to guess something else.

I left the movie thinking "the guys dies, the kid can talk to him, everyone thinks he's crazy, the husband is haunting his wife. where is the twist everyone is talking about?!"

pookiesboo

thegreatiam wrote: »

of course! ;-)

I didnt guess it tho. I thought it was the point of the film, I was trying to guess something else.

I left the movie thinking "the guys dies, the kid can talk to him, everyone thinks he's crazy, the husband is haunting his wife. where is the twist everyone is talking about?!"

It is pretty obvious alright when you watch it back. But the part that I always have a niggle with is when Bruce Willis goes to see the kid at his home, firstly how did he get in and secondly is he not wondering why Toni Colette is not talking to him!?

krudler

pookiesboo wrote: »

It is pretty obvious alright when you watch it back. But the part that I always have a niggle with is when Bruce Willis goes to see the kid at his home, firstly how did he get in and secondly is he not wondering why Toni Colette is not talking to him!?

Or why he can't speak to anyone else throughout the entire film, including his wife, that'd be one of those falls apart on second viewing movies. I have a major issue with how Shyamalan constructs his movies in that regard, people are only aware of what we the audience can see at the time.

If you ever listen to the Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo film show, it's actually a recurring and interesting discussion that they do and often causes headaches for them. I haven't seen Iron Man 3, but seemingly Gwyneth Paltrow revealed some pretty big plot points in an interview with them, which they got a fair amount of heat for.

The way I see it is that if a movie is more than 10 years old (especially if more than 20), then its pretty fair game for spoilers.

thegreatiam

Deleted User wrote: »

The way I see it is that if a movie is more than 10 years old (especially if more than 20), then its pretty fair game for spoilers.

10! within reason 1 year is plenty if not too generous. If you havent seen Ironman 3/ or dark knight by one year after release i cant be held responsible for spoilers that I may mention in a chat down the pub.

If you haven't seen Iron sky or another film hardly anyone saw then Ill be careful not to ruin the ending for you.

I think the definitive formula would need to be time=obscurity of the movie on original release X importance of the film to the cinema whole or at least it's genre.

Ie I wouldn't want to ruin any part of goodfellas for anyone, even tho its near 25 years old. But if you haven't seen Mickey Blue Eyes, then I don't care if i ruin it for you. (may be saving you pain there tho.)

Mizu_Ger

thegreatiam wrote: »

The reverse of 'spoiler' ruined that movie as I was so keen on spotting the clever twist I didn't even twig that he might already be dead, as I just assumed that from the beginning.

This is what annoys me most too. Just by saying that there's a twist in a film means that you spend the film trying to guess the twist, which you otherwise wouldn't do.

Deleted User wrote: »

If you ever listen to the Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo film show, it's actually a recurring and interesting discussion that they do and often causes headaches for them. I haven't seen Iron Man 3, but seemingly Gwyneth Paltrow revealed some pretty big plot points in an interview with them, which they got a fair amount of heat for.

The way I see it is that if a movie is more than 10 years old (especially if more than 20), then its pretty fair game for spoilers.

Kermode always points it out when a film has a twist, even if he doesn't actually tell us what it is. I listen that podcast and fast forward past any films I am planning to see.

thegreatiam

Mizu_Ger wrote: »

Kermode always points it out when a film has a twist, even if he doesn't actually tell us what it is.

This would annoy me more, either tell me what the twist is or don't mention it at all.

Its like when someone calls your name and then says never mind.

The best movie experiences I have are ones when I am completely blind going into it. If I know there is a twist, then I will be expecting a twist. which usually ruins the twist. Like the hero is up against an unidentified villain, but he has a best mate helping him, if you know there will be a twist you immediately are thinking it's the mate.