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Paid Holidays or Genuine Charity?

  • 21-05-2013 08:44PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭keelanj69


    Passed a sign today advertising a charity event so a local girl from a well to do family can go off to India to teach.

    Are these type of things charitable or is it some young chancer getting a nice holiday?

    Personally they annoy me. Almost as much as bag packing to send the local u10s football club to France for a week.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    I'm not a big supporter of these type of events tbh, if people want to help in other countries they should fund it themselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Yup, dem kids need Irish edumacation dontchaknow.
    Lol d4 4 lyf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭keelanj69


    Does it actually benefit anyone except the girl? No benefit to the people who pay for the trip. India gets a teacher for a few weeks. Hardly enough time to get through a body of work, especially when 30% of the time will be spent convincing them to get their Communion. :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    I don't mind if its the UCD/Trinity med students collecting so they can head off, same with the engineers or other similarly skilled people. But schoolkids and wasters who're just doing it to teach english can sod off!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    HondaSami wrote: »
    I'm not a big supporter of these type of events tbh, if people want to help in other countries they should fund it themselves.

    One of my kids came home from school asking if we could help with a donation/cake sale event for one the teachers who is heading off to Moldova for month to do some charity work.She was there last year for two days .

    I work for charity myself but haven't the brass neck to ask if anyone wants to fund my lunch,travel etc.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭mawk


    I think india needs microfinance loans more than it needs inexperienced teachers personally.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    its a scam when you think about it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭keelanj69


    Same type of situation happened last year. Was roped into a tablequiz for sending a teacher to India. 20e for the table, or so I was told until I got to the door and she was chancing her arm asking for 40e.

    Did I pay? Did I fûck.


  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its the same with those Kilimanjaro and other foreign mountain climbs for 'Charity'. Why not climb a mountain in Ireland? We have plenty of them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Pilotdude5


    Its voluntourism is what it is.

    I have also heard that a UCC med student trip to Africa every summer is one big session. Open to correction on that one.


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  • Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The ones that get me are sponsorship fund raisers. I know a few people who have paid a lot of money to go sky diving.

    I also know a few people who have done sponsored sky dives. In other words, they get people to pay them money to fund their sky dive, and then if there's any left over they give that to charity. That's madness! And all the while the person who's getting the free sky dive also gets the praise and publicity of being some sort of philanthropist. Ugh.

    I mean, sponsored walks/runs/etc. don't make much sense to me, but at least the money raised actually goes to charity. Sponsorship that funds the fund-raiser's holidays/hobbies/opportunities to have fun are ridiculous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭keelanj69


    The ones that get me are sponsorship fund raisers. I know a few people who have paid a lot of money to go sky diving.

    I also know a few people who have done sponsored sky dives. In other words, they get people to pay them money to fund their sky dive, and then if there's any left over they give that to charity. That's madness! And all the while the person who's getting the free sky dive also gets the praise and publicity of being some sort of philanthropist. Ugh.

    I mean, sponsored walks/runs/etc. don't make much sense to me, but at least the money raised actually goes to charity. Sponsorship that funds the fund-raiser's holidays/hobbies/opportunities to have fun are ridiculous.

    Makes me wonder what else people will pay for. If I was honest and said I fancy a weekend away or to get back to university would people cough up?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭Gorilla Rising


    Paid holidays.

    Stay at home. Use the money you'd spend flying to Peru to walk the Inca trail to donate along with whatever you generate through a genuine sacrifice.

    It just doesn't look like those people care enough to make that sacrifice, but will happily use donated money to fund their ambitions. It's beyond crass.

    I will never give towards any of these 'missions'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    keelanj69 wrote: »
    Are these type of things charitable or is it some young chancer getting a nice holiday?

    Why can't it be both?

    People know what they're supporting in these fundraisers, a chance for the person to see that part of the world and give a helping hand. If people want to support that then they should.

    I volunteered in Africa and had a fantastic time. The first week I did touristy stuff (part of the package) and for the rest worked in an orphanage. Charity work doesn't have to be depressing, and you shouldn't be looked down upon for enjoying it like a holiday. If I wasn't working I would've tried to collect funding from others as it's far from cheap.

    Everybody should do it imo, but the above attitudes put people off (which is a massive shame).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭keelanj69


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Why can't it be both?

    People know what they're supporting in these fundraisers, a chance for the person to see that part of the world and give a helping hand. If people want to support that then they should.

    I volunteered in Africa and had a fantastic time. The first week I did touristy stuff (part of the package) and for the rest worked in an orphanage. Charity work doesn't have to be depressing, and you shouldn't be looked down upon for enjoying it like a holiday.

    If I wasn't working I would've tried to collect funding from others, they're far from cheap. Everybody should do it imo.

    If it's far from cheap though shouldn't you:

    A) Save for a (long) while to afford it

    Or

    B) Not ask everyone else for the money if you can't afford.

    Saying that, I see your points but the few grand she would collect would go a long ways to educating a person over there who will be a more permanent fixture.

    Not as glamerous but more charitable, maybe?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    As a person with MS, I am amused by "MS walks" in various exotic locations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭Gorilla Rising


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Why can't it be both?

    People know what they're supporting in these fundraisers, a chance for the person to see that part of the world and give a helping hand. If people want to support that then they should.

    I volunteered in Africa and had a fantastic time. The first week I did touristy stuff (part of the package) and for the rest worked in an orphanage. Charity work doesn't have to be depressing, and you shouldn't be looked down upon for enjoying it like a holiday.

    If I wasn't working I would've tried to collect funding from others, they're far from cheap. Everybody should do it imo.

    You still had a bit of a holiday.

    I should hope people know what they're supporting and I'm not bothered if that's what they want to do, fair enough.

    I personally find it difficult to swallow that you went away and had a 'fantastic time'. You don't seem to have been affected by what you saw there.

    I think there's a big difference between people who go for the experience and the people who genuinely care and make a personal sacrifice to help charities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    keelanj69 wrote: »
    Saying that, I see your points but the few grand she would collect would go a long ways to educating a person over there who will be a more permanent fixture.
    And then we'd have a thread about chuggers instead of holiday/charity fundraising.
    Not as glamerous but more charitable, maybe?
    Charities do need people going over. Where I worked seemed somewhat well run (if not entirely corrupt) but a woman I met over there was in an orphanage where she was the sole carer of about 30 children. She'd volunteered there before and the only reason she went back was that she knew the kids aren't looked after. Now that she's reaching her 60s she felt she probably couldn't do it for much longer.

    They do need volunteers in these places. And people don't really donate much unless there's a familiar face trying to raise the money.


    Shitting on people trying to do something charitable because it's not entirely selfless is also a dick move. Especially if you're doing nothing charitable yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    You don't seem to have been affected by what you saw there.
    Oh, and is that your professional opinion?


  • Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Brooks Big Script


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Why can't it be both?

    People know what they're supporting in these fundraisers, a chance for the person to see that part of the world and give a helping hand. If people want to support that then they should.

    I volunteered in Africa and had a fantastic time. The first week I did touristy stuff (part of the package) and for the rest worked in an orphanage. Charity work doesn't have to be depressing, and you shouldn't be looked down upon for enjoying it like a holiday. If I wasn't working I would've tried to collect funding from others as it's far from cheap.

    Everybody should do it imo, but the above attitudes put people off (which is a massive shame).

    Why the hell should I (if I were your mate) fund your sightseeing? I work really hard and barely get to travel myself. If you want to go to Africa or whatever, why don't you save up and pay for it yourself? It takes some gall to take other people's money and use it for a week's holiday. Seriously.
    Shitting on people trying to do something charitable because it's not entirely selfless is also a dick move. Especially if you're doing nothing charitable yourself.

    Asking for money to go abroad is a d1ck move. If you're so bothered about the cause, pay for it yourself. I know lots of people who do this stuff and it's funny how none of them are willing to give up the daily lattes/iPhone/gym sub or make any kind of sacrifice themselves but think they're God's gift for gallivanting around Peru for a fortnight under the pretext of 'helping people'. I'd love to do something like that. I haven't yet, because I can't afford it. I do plenty of charity work here for the time being.

    This is my pet peeve at the minute, as you may have guessed.

    AGHHHHHHHHH :mad:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sassyj


    No problem donating to someone doing this, IF when you click in to their charity page they have stumped up a decent wedge themselvesto cover flight/accommodation costs etc., otherwise you're just funding their holiday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭Gorilla Rising


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Oh, and is that your professional opinion?

    No need to get testy.

    I would hope that after a visit to poverty stricken areas of Africa, the last thing a person would come out with was 'I had a fantastic time'. :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    keelanj69 wrote: »
    Passed a sign today advertising a charity event so a local girl from a well to do family can go off to India to teach.
    What can she teach that a local can't ?

    Has the charity an exit strategy in place where they upskill the local partners such that they can provide the teaching, and the training of local teachers ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    I would hope that after a visit to poverty stricken areas of Africa, the last thing a person would come out with was 'I had a fantastic time'. :rolleyes:

    I could tell people about the time I had to bring food to a 10 year old who couldn't get out of bed because he couldn't get the proper medication for his HIV, or the time an emotionally unstable girl was shipped off because the staff couldn't bother to deal with her, or on the last day when one of the kids came running to the gate crying because we were leaving but those aren't the memories I like to focus on.

    I spent a tiny fraction of my life with those kids and while not every day was easy my time there was amazing. They were born into circumstances that no child should be born into but they were still full of life, they were children like any other.

    You can go over there and focus on how shit their lives are, or you can remember the good times. Either way I won't apologise for enjoying my time there, and a swift "fuck off" will be directed at anyone who thinks I should.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    They're just holidays paid for by suckers. I wonder how many of the 'volunteers' who justify it by the good they are supposedly doing would be happy doing an equal or greater amount of good volunteering in a Ballymun youth centre for the summer....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Why the hell should I (if I were your mate) fund your sightseeing?
    You don't have to...
    If you want to go to Africa or whatever, why don't you save up and pay for it yourself?
    I did pay for it myself.
    Asking for money to go abroad is a d1ck move.
    It depends on your reasons for going abroad.


  • Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Brooks Big Script


    Seachmall wrote: »
    You don't have to...I did pay for it myself.

    And the whole point of the thread is that people ask for money to do this stuff. :confused: And you seem to think that's OK.

    I can't be bothered going into the ethics of and arguments surrounding 'voluntouring'. I would say that if you can fund it yourself, grand, but expecting someone else to is pretty crap. To me, paying for some to go up Machu Picchu and call into an orphanage on the way back is like me asking them to fund my week in Tenerife.

    I don't think taking your own 'expenses' out of charity donations is ever cool.
    It depends on your reasons for going abroad.

    If someone is a doctor going to work in a third world country that's just been hit by a natural disaster, maybe they could justify asking for donations. Most voluntourists don't do anything like that because they don't have any skills which would actually be useful. Most people I know who have gone abroad to 'help' don't seem to have done much at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭keelanj69


    What can she teach that a local can't ?

    Has the charity an exit strategy in place where they upskill the local partners such that they can provide the teaching, and the training of local teachers ?

    I dont know if it's part of a wider charity. I have no idea what she could offer apart from maybe english? I have a feeling its a case of knowing your return date before you leave type operation.

    It seems like a CV building exercise at others expense. The attitude amoung people seems to be 'ah go on I'll give you a few bob sure isnt it grand for you to be going off'. Very cyclical.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Friends of my girlfriend are mad for doing this and my refusal to part with cash for these "causes" has caused a bit of friction in the past. One of her friends, who is a child care worker was off to South Africa to work in an orphanage and was looking for donations as well as holding a paid-entry function in a pub. How long was she out there for? Two bloody weeks, which included weekends going looking at wildlife as well as going on the p*ss. Fair enough if someone is making a lasting commitment to a project, like going there for a year odd in order to help out. By all means I would support something like that, but funding a two-week holiday dressed up as "making an impact and helping others"? F*ck that.

    Another one was her friend looking for sponsorship to go skydiving. I paid $250 to do my one in America, why would I possibly "sponsor" someone to do the same thing? Surely the €400 odd cost of doing one in Ireland would be better off going to the actual charity?

    As others have said above, fund raising to send doctors to stricken parts of the world or even to send teachers or care workers to overcrowded facilities, that's all well and good provided they are making a real and stoic commitment to put themselves out there for a period. Two weeks in Malawi looking at giraffes and getting your photo taken with black children though? That's nothing but a glorified human safari and asking others to pay for it is an even bigger insult.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    And the whole point of the thread is that people ask for money to do this stuff. :confused: And you seem to think that's OK.
    I do, because they do need people to go over.

    So what if they get a few days doing the generic touristy crap? Does charity have to be entirely selfless for you to consider it worthwhile enough to donate?
    If someone is a doctor going to work in a third world country that's just been hit by a natural disaster, maybe they could justify asking for donations. Most voluntourists don't do anything like that because they don't have any skills which would actually be useful. Most people I know who have gone abroad to 'help' don't seem to have done much at all.
    I've no skills that anyone would immediately consider valuable in an orphanage but when I went over I spent much of my time doing stuff that doesn't need specialist skills. I cleaned in the mornings, helped with lunch in the afternoon, helped with homework when the older children got back from school and did odd jobs whenever I got the time (painting walls, fixing gates and so on) .

    They're small things but when you realise that even at 16 many of them can't multiply 10 by 5, or that the play area gets littered with glass after the weekends, or that the staff don't care enough to change the younger ones' clothes you realise these small things do matter to their day-to-day standards of living.

    Even just painting a flower on a wall gets a response that makes it seem far less trivial that what we imagine it is.

    I don't think anyone goes over with the idea that they're going to rescue anyone from poverty or disease but regardless of skills or education you will make some difference. Even if it's only in small ways.


    EDIT - Essentially my argument boils down to the end justifying the means. Volunteers are needed, even unskilled ones, and I think they should be supported regardless of how selfish or selfless their motives are.


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