GP wants €30 to sign document

ceekay74

I tried getting a passport application for my infant daughter sorted out at the local garda station but was told that for a particular section that the guards can't sign it as they didn't know us personally, but we could ask our GP to sign it for us.

So far so good.

He wants €30 to sign it. Absolutely disgusted, left his office without saying a word. What a horrible money grubbing so & so. Never going back there.

hidinginthebush

The guards signed mine no hassle. Maybe come back another day and ask a different garda?

Fair play for not paying the GP!

ceekay74

hidinginthebush wrote: »

The guards signed mine no hassle. Maybe come back another day and ask a different garda?

Fair play for not paying the GP!

Will try that in a few days. Might get lucky.

Can't believe the cheek of the GP, we had being going there for over 12 years!

xpletiv

Name and shame. Name and shame...

thegreatiam

cant just be cops and doctors that can sign.
what about parish priest, lawyers etc?
is it not just a 'person in good standing' that is not related to you and you have known for 2 years?

Edi: In the uk it is pretty much a business owner or professionally qualified person with no record. not sure how it is in ireland

jd83

Just try a different garda station or go back later when another garda there. Eventually someone will sign it.

Its a joke, I had same hassle. Never broken any laws or have had any run ins with the gardai. So no one in my local garda station knows me " personally ". Even more so now considering my local garda station is half away across the city due to the station closures. Eventually got one to sign it, but wasnt short of asking them out for a coffee to get to know me!

yh never set foot in that doctors office again.

ceekay74

xpletiv wrote: »

Name and shame. Name and shame...

Is that allowed here?

Its a well known GP practice in Kilnamanagh, Dublin 24.

xpletiv

TBH, this never made sense to me.

1. Why would a garda know you unless you were not of good standing?
2. Why would a garda be more 'good standing' than others? In my experience, most gards (MOST) are thick as two short planks and only in the gards cause they couldnt do anything that required good skill.
3. What constitutes 'good standing'?

What a moronic society we live in... at the best of times...

Good on you telling the GP to go F himself. €30 for a signature. Should have called him a thief and con artist as you left!

thegreatiam

xpletiv wrote: »

TBH, this never made sense to me.

1. Why would a garda know you unless you were not of good standing?
2. Why would a garda be more 'good standing' than others? In my experience, most gards (MOST) are thick as two short planks and only in the gards cause they couldnt do anything that required good skill.
3. What constitutes 'good standing'?

1 very good point, ive spoken to one garda in my whole life.
2+3 basically no criminal record, or a job which means a dodgy record and you'd be fired. (not that it precludes garda tho )

hunglikeaflee

After studying for 7 or more years a charge of €30.00 is not bad. Remember they also have overheads to pay. What do people expect? If you called a plumber to look at something for you and they did no work but asked for €30.00 you would pay it.

Go to a solicitor and ask for it to be signed at see what they will charge.

ceekay74

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

If you called a plumber to look at something for you and they did no work but asked for €30.00 you would pay it.

I wouldn't ask a plumber who charges call out fees to look at something.

logically

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

After studying for 7 or more years a charge of €30.00 is not bad. Remember they also have overheads to pay. What do people expect? If you called a plumber to look at something for you and they did no work but asked for €30.00 you would pay it.

Go to a solicitor and ask for it to be signed at see what they will charge.

The length of time someone studies to do a job has ZERO bearing on this matter. Of more relevance is the fact that the person requesting a simple signature has been going to the practice for 12 YEARS...

A client of that many years standing should reasonably expect the courtesy of a signature for a passport application.

OP - If it were me, I would write to them and request your medical records to facilitate moving to a new practice. Let them know that their mean spirited ways prompted it.

Also, leave a review on the whatclinic site.

rubadub

ceekay74 wrote: »

Can't believe the cheek of the GP, we had being going there for over 12 years!

I hope you let him know why you are changing.

thegreatiam wrote: »

cant just be cops and doctors that can sign.
what about parish priest, lawyers etc?

Its mental, priests & lawyers? I'd trust the local fecking drug dealer more! I think accountants can do it too.

I got my passport photos signed in pearse street garda station. It seems to be the main job for them! Its ridiculous that they don't have a dedicated garda in the passport office. There was a queue in front of me with loads getting it done and nobody had any hassle at all. Though I heard some saying they did in the local garda station. Also in the passport office I heard similar tales of young gardai being wary of signing, so maybe this is the problem. Or perhaps it is a known thing with babies more.

You could ring another garda station and ask about it, a senior experienced guy might do it, its all too easy for a wary garda to say no, easy cop out.

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

After studying for 7 or more years a charge of €30.00 is not bad. Remember they also have overheads to pay. What do people expect? If you called a plumber to look at something for you and they did no work but asked for €30.00 you would pay it.

If I was a doctor with a customer of 12 years I would have done it for free, how much would you have charged?
People expect this to be a free gesture which gives goodwill. If I was going to the same plumber for 12 years, and if he was allowed sign my passport photos (I trust my plumber more than my local priest or gardai) then I would expect him to do it free if he had an office that I was popping into and only disrupting him for 2minutes. If he made a call out for the doctor to drive out to his house (like you seem to be inferring with your plumber) then a charge would be acceptable.

keithclancy

ceekay74 wrote: »

I tried getting a passport application for my infant daughter sorted out at the local garda station but was told that for a particular section that the guards can't sign it as they didn't know us personally, but we could ask our GP to sign it for us.

So far so good.

He wants €30 to sign it. Absolutely disgusted, left his office without saying a word. What a horrible money grubbing so & so. Never going back there.

Sounds about right, rather than say 'no' he just said 30 euro instead.

The GP is under no obligation to do this for you for free.

rubadub

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

After studying for 7 or more years a charge of €30.00 is not bad.

Says here it takes about 7 years to become a priest too, wonder what they charge.
http://www.catholicpriesthood.com/index.php?view=items&cid=2%3Abecoming-a-priest&id=9%3Ahow-long-does-it-take-to-become-a-priest-can-you-study-part-time&option=com_quickfaq&Itemid=38

keithclancy wrote: »

The GP is under no obligation to do this for you for free.

Nobody said he was, if you were a GP with a customer of 12 years what would you have charged them? I take it you would charge €30 as you said it was "about right", but just want you to confirm what you would charge a customer of 12 years (probably not just him but the family too)

sweetie

Did you actually speak to the GP or an administrator?

Nemeses

Another spin on this is... You are asking a Doctor (Could be anyone really) for them to vouch for you? A professional that can lose his license to practise.. One way of looking at it. You could very well be putting his job on the line - Permanently..

I'm being hypothetical but an interesting point... maybe?

rubadub

Nemeses wrote: »

You are asking a Doctor (Could be anyone really) for them to vouch for you?

I'm being hypothetical but an interesting point... maybe?

Another one I would like to hear answer the hypothetical question, if you were a GP with a customer of 12 years what would you have charged them?

Its not like he was unknown and asking them to vouch for them.

Nolimits

Nemeses wrote: »

Another spin on this is... You are asking a Doctor (Could be anyone really) for them to vouch for you? A professional that can lose his license to practise.. One way of looking at it. You could very well be putting his job on the line - Permanently..

I'm being hypothetical but an interesting point... maybe?

They are just vouching that you are who you say, not that you're a decent person so not sure how they're putting their job on the line. Will take the point about Guards not wanting to sign it though if they don't know you.

MagicMarker

Nemeses wrote: »

Another spin on this is... You are asking a Doctor (Could be anyone really) for them to vouch for you? A professional that can lose his license to practise.. One way of looking at it. You could very well be putting his job on the line - Permanently..

I'm being hypothetical but an interesting point... maybe?

No.

FGR

Gardaí won't sign a passport for an infant unless they're 100% satisfied that you are their parent. That usually requires the child's birth cert as well as identification for the parents. When these documents aren't available a Guard won't take the risk of signing it in the smallest of chances that something may be wrong.

I've seen some parents become outraged when the Guard won't sign on foot of the birth cert not being present. They believe that the child's current passport (which is due to expire) is enough. It doesn't say who the parents are on that document however yet they expect the Guard to willingly sign off that both parents consent to a passport being issued.

I'm surprised with your GP though OP.

Nemeses

rubadub wrote: »

Another one I would like to hear answer the hypothetical question, if you were a GP with a customer of 12 years what would you have charged them?

Its not like he was unknown and asking them to vouch for them.

Ask in the doctors forums..See what the professionals say. I can't speak for them as I am not a GP, nor do I hold a doctorate of some description..Would be an interesting debate.


But I'd probably wouldn't charge.. I mean its literally a 2 second job or a scribble in this case

thegreatiam

I dont see why someone would refuse to sign it, youre not vouching for the person only that the image in the photo looks like the person.

Dont understand why they need to know you for 2 years. but a random cop who ive never seen before can sign it.

It needs to be better thought out to apply to a more modern society. How many people in this country honestly know their local doctor, police man, etc.

Id say a fair % don't use regular community services. Most wont even know their neighbours.
Ive never seen the same doctor twice in this country, only ever spoke to one cop, never met a priest.

When I had to get my picture signed I asked a girl in my girlfriends work who had a bachelors degree, this was sufficient for a uk passport. But at the time I'd only met her once.

freelancerTax

they do not have to vouch for you - they are simply a witness to you signing the documents and that you are the person in your photo - nothing more - requires no skill

i had a very hard time to do this in the uk for an irish passport - police didnt want to know - ended up asking the local postmaster to do it - was the first time i met him

ratracer

Are you sure the guard didn't tell you ask a 'JP' as in Justice of the Peace to sign it for and not your GP? It seems very strange to ask a GP to sign a passport form of any description?


In any case don't GP's charge for everything - repeat prescriptions, sick certs etc. and not too much is said about that.

ceekay74

sweetie wrote: »

Did you actually speak to the GP or an administrator?

It was the reception / admin staff that I was talking to. They seemed embarrassed by the charge but seemed definite that it stood.

ceekay74

ratracer wrote: »

Are you sure the guard didn't tell you ask a 'JP' as in Justice of the Peace to sign it for and not your GP? It seems very strange to ask a GP to sign a passport form of any description?


In any case don't GP's charge for everything - repeat prescriptions, sick certs etc. and not too much is said about that.

Yes I'm sure he said GP. And yes they do they do tend to charge for anything they can. But at least it relates to their job as a doctor. This is a SIGNATURE to say they know me!!!

Oryx

Nemeses wrote: »

Another spin on this is... You are asking a Doctor (Could be anyone really) for them to vouch for you? A professional that can lose his license to practise.. One way of looking at it. You could very well be putting his job on the line - Permanently..

I'm being hypothetical but an interesting point... maybe?

Yet 30 quid somehow makes it okay for him to sign? He either can vouch for someone in good faith or he cannot. Money doesn't alter that.

It sounds like this practice have set charges for all kinds of requests. Maybe they get asked to sign all kinds of forms for all kinds of reasons. A charge is understandable, (if excessive) but to charge a flat fee with no discretion regardless of what the situation is, seems to be very bad business practice. In this case it comes across as money grabbing and they have lost a long term client for the sake of it.

hunglikeaflee

logically wrote: »

The length of time someone studies to do a job has ZERO bearing on this matter.

Of course it has, without the studying they would not be in the position, hence they wouldn’t be able to singe it as a doctor.

rubadub wrote: »

If I was a doctor with a customer of 12 years I would have done it for free,

It is easy to sit there and say that because it doesn’t effect you directly. You say you would have done it free and the next one and next one so on. Now all of a sudden you are working for nothing because word gets around about you been a soft touch.

rubadub wrote: »

how much would you have charged?

I would think 20 – 30 Euro is a fair price.

rubadub wrote: »

Says here it takes about 7 years to become a priest too, wonder what they charge.
http://www.catholicpriesthood.com/index.php?view=items&cid=2%3Abecoming-a-priest&id=9%3Ahow-long-does-it-take-to-become-a-priest-can-you-study-part-time&option=com_quickfaq&Itemid=38

I don’t know but I would think much the same and what has this got to do with a Doctors charges?

I can’t say for sure but I would think most people getting a passport needs it to travel and most people that travel with children are doing so for leisure (well hardly business). Think of it this way, it is reasonable to think that these people are spending hundreds or more lightly thousands on these trips yet don’t want to spend€30.00 to get the paperwork singed.

You might say I have a bee in my bonnet about this. I, as do most of the staff where I work get asked every day for help or advice for free. If we gave it we would be out of a job or make us busy fools.

ceekay74

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

You might say I have a bee in my bonnet about this. I, as do most of the staff where I work get asked every day for help or advice for free. If we gave it we would be out of a job or make us busy fools.

Out of curiosity, what kind of work do you do?

GoodisonPark

If the GP is the OP's regular doctor I would expect no charge for a signature. I'm sure the doctor makes enough from OP over the year on consultations.
Likewise I have a regular mechanic who services my car. A few weeks ago I neded a very minor repair done that took 5 mins. I wasn't charged , the mechanics words were "I haven't started charging for a drop of glue yet!!" I think the GP in this case should adopt the same attitude.

smcgiff

'Who can act as a witness?

The person who witnesses your signature and confirms your identity must, without exception, be a member of one of the following professions and must not be related to you. Retired witnesses are not acceptable:


Police Officer
Member of the Clergy
Lawyer
Medical Doctor
Bank Manager/Assistant Bank Manager
Elected Public Representative
Commissioner for Oaths
Peace Commissioner
School Principal/Vice Principal
Accountant

I've never been asked to witness a passport application. I wouldn't charge, but I wouldn't do it for some randower either.

hunglikeaflee

ceekay74 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what kind of work do you do?

I work in the Electrical industry.

hunglikeaflee

smcgiff wrote: »

Quote:
'Who can act as a witness?

The person who witnesses your signature and confirms your identity must, without exception, be a member of one of the following professions and must not be related to you. Retired witnesses are not acceptable:


Police Officer
Member of the Clergy
Lawyer
Medical Doctor
Bank Manager/Assistant Bank Manager
Elected Public Representative
Commissioner for Oaths
Peace Commissioner
School Principal/Vice Principal
Accountant


I've never been asked to witness a passport application. I wouldn't charge, but I wouldn't do it for some randower either.

I would like to know where you got this information. I seriously doubt it is for Irish citizens living in Ireland.

DubDani

Our doctor here in the North charges as well to sign the Irish Passport application, but thankfully only £5 per visit (i.e. signing multiple forms at once will still only cost £5).

To me more annoying is that they will only sign the forms on one specific ay a week between 5.30 and 6.00pm, but I can understand why they arrange it like that.

Soundman

Just curious. A wonderment if you will. When you went in to get this form signed:

a) Did you see the Doctor in person?
b) Was this during his/her normal working hours?
c) Were you charged for the visit as well?

smcgiff

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

I would like to know where you got this information. I seriously doubt it is for Irish citizens living in Ireland.

Whoops, looks like you are right, from what I can see what I listed was only if you were living abroad. This is what I see when I looked at the Irish section...

Have the witness section of the application form and two photograph signed and stamped by a Garda Síochána, for applications made in Ireland, or by a member of one of the categories listed on the form for applications made abroad.

But, why then was the OP sent to a doctor by the Garda?

palmcut

Some passport applications for infants and minors require the applicant to sign an affidavit. This usually applies in cases of parental separation or parental divorce.
In this type of case the parent who is the legal guardian is required to sign the child's birth certificate and for that signature to be officially witnessed. In addition the parent who has legal guardianship is required to swear on oath that she/he is the sole guardian. There are a number of legal questions that such an applicant has to answer under oath on the affidavit.
The adminstration of such an oath can be done by a solicitor or by a Commissioner for Oaths.
Other documents can be witnessed by the other professions mentioned earlier in the thread.
Whilst the original poster may not be in this category, the above applies whenever a single parent applies for a passport. It is one way of the State trying to reduce cases of abduction.

hfallada

I had a garda refusing to sign my passport application as she didnt know me personally. She couldnt her head around the fact that we live in Dublin a city of 1.5 million and therefore she cant know everyone. Also the suburb where I live has no garda stations. Some Gardas have no logic

spurious

Hmmm I'm wondering how much I can get away with charging the next time a kid looks for a reference from me.

No excuse for the GP charging - money grabbing pure and simple.

hunglikeaflee

OP,



Here is a solution.



Print these off the websites provided and you won’t have to pay.

---

(Source) http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=254

What documents should be enclosed

Complete all sections of the application form correctly and legibly. Don’t forget to enter your signature in the signaturebox on the left hand side of this section.
Enclose four recently taken passport photographs .
Have the witness section of the application form and two photograph signed and stamped by a Garda Síochána, for applications made in Ireland, or by a member of one of the categories listed on the form for applications made abroad.
The Passport Service reserves the right to contact witnesses as required. Passport applicants should therefore note that where it is not possible make contact with those witnessing applications then it is likely that the application will be rejected.
With effect from 9th January 2012 the Passport Service will only accept photocopies in respect of passports with six months or less validity on the date of application. Where a passport has 6 plus months validity this must be submitted with the application.
Information in respect of applications for first time adults and those who are reporting lost and stolen passports please click here First time adult applicants/Lost and stolen
Enclose the appropriate fee.



(source) http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/travel_abroad/passports/applying_for_or_renewing_an_irish_passport.html





Passport photographs

Four recent identical photographs of the passport holder must be included with each application. Two of these should be signed on the back by the person who witnesses the application. The witness should also write the form number shown in Section 9 of the application form on those two photographs. If you are applying in Ireland the witness must be a member of the Garda Síochána. If you are applying abroad, suitable categories of witness are listed on the application form.

---

Take it back to the Garda and ask why they won’t sign it.

ceekay74

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

I work in the Electrical industry.

Ok, so in a situation where I have an ongoing need to purchase your services and have being doing so for 12 years or so, with an average of say €600 worth of business being put your way every year, and during this time we have got to know each other quite well, is it not unreasonable that I call to your place of business and ask you to sign a document saying you can verify that I am who I say I am, without you putting your hand out for €30 euro??

ceekay74

Soundman wrote: »

Just curious. A wonderment if you will. When you went in to get this form signed:

a) Did you see the Doctor in person?
b) Was this during his/her normal working hours?
c) Were you charged for the visit as well?

a) no
b) yes
c) no, i spoke to the admin/reception staff

ceekay74

smcgiff wrote: »

But, why then was the OP sent to a doctor by the Garda?

The guard on duty said it must be signed but someone who knows me, but is not related to me. He also mentioned that the local priest was an option.

hunglikeaflee

ceekay74 wrote: »

Ok, so in a situation where I have an ongoing need to purchase your services and have being doing so for 12 years or so, with an average of say €600 worth of business being put your way every year, and during this time we have got to know each other quite well, is it not unreasonable that I call to your place of business and ask you to sign a document saying you can verify that I am who I say I am, without you putting your hand out for €30 euro??

That is a very hypothetical question as I would not be in a situation to sign the form for you. If you asked me to sign something to say I knew you and as you say we were friends, yes I would sign it.

Now, if I were in a position where I could sign it and it was a legal document and this was part of my job, then no, I would charge you for my services as you are my customer.

This is part of the service that Doctors provide and should expect to get paid for it as any professional gets paid for the work they do.

ceekay74

hunglikeaflee wrote: »

That is a very hypothetical question as I would not be in a situation to sign the form for you. If you asked me to sign something to say I knew you and as you say we were friends, yes I would sign it.

Now, if I were in a position where I could sign it and it was a legal document and this was part of my job, then no, I would charge you for my services as you are my customer.

This is part of the service that Doctors provide and should expect to get paid for it as any professional gets paid for the work they do.

I know its hypothetical, but imagine the situation was true. You would be signing a legal document to say that you can vouch for me being who I say I am. It would take less than 1 minute of your time & has nothing to do with the job you trained to do.

It is a courtesy, a favour, good customer service. Asking for money in the circumstance is obnoxious IMO, especially bearing in mind the length of the client/doctor relationship.

If you think this charge is acceptable, thats your own business, but I'm finished with that GP as a consequence. F**k him.

Soundman

ceekay74 wrote: »

a) no
b) yes
c) no, i spoke to the admin/reception staff

Going on your answers then, €30 to me is too much to charge. Anytime I have required a repeat of my prescription without seeing the doctor then have charged me ~€12 I presume to cover their time and Admin costs. €30 I could have understood if you were physically in with the doctor.

Pat Mustard

I think the last time I rang in for a sick note, the GP charged something like €35-€40. That was fair enough, it was a sick note, I needed it, he had to stand over my symptoms, as a doctor.

But €30 to sign a passport form is insulting, especially to a patient of 12 years standing.

One poster asked what a solicitor would charge. Well, there is a statutory charge for a solicitor to witness sworn documents; €10.

So, I would say that an average solicitor might charge a stranger €10 for a signature. If it was a client of 12 years standing, I would say that there must be a strong possibility that he would do it for nothing.

€30 to sign a passport form. Ridiculous.

McCrack

ceekay74 wrote: »

I know its hypothetical, but imagine the situation was true. You would be signing a legal document to say that you can vouch for me being who I say I am. It would take less than 1 minute of your time & has nothing to do with the job you trained to do.

It is a courtesy, a favour, good customer service. Asking for money in the circumstance is obnoxious IMO, especially bearing in mind the length of the client/doctor relationship.

If you think this charge is acceptable, thats your own business, but I'm finished with that GP as a consequence. F**k him.

Na the doctor is running a busy medical practice in Dublin 24. The doctor's primary concern is his patient's medical complaints, the people who have made appointments and are waiting in reception to be seen by him, his own paperwork, his daily list of house-calls to make, paying his overheads, staff wages etc.

People (regardless whether they may be known or not) coming in randomly off the street looking for passport forms to be signed are a distraction to the business of practising medicine. €30.00 is to discourage such visits to the practice and also of course help pay the overheads...like any business.

ceekay74

McCrack wrote: »

€30.00 is to discourage such visits to the practice

Well, mission accomplished. :pac:

nlgbbbblth

Nemeses wrote: »

Another spin on this is... You are asking a Doctor (Could be anyone really) for them to vouch for you? A professional that can lose his license to practise.. One way of looking at it. You could very well be putting his job on the line - Permanently..

I'm being hypothetical but an interesting point... maybe?

No.