Grass Being Cut at DUB for Fodder Crisis

Shamrock231

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0520/451439-fodder-crisis-farmers/

Looks like the grass is being cut at Dublin Airport to help out the farmers in the current fodder crisis.

Last time the grass was cut this resulted in a large number of bird-strikes last summer, with one aircraft, an Iberworld A320 suffering an engine failure IIRC. So, whats the guess, more bird strikes in store again this summer.

Does anyone actually know the reason why all the birds seem to flock to the airport when the grass is cut? Some of the photo's taken last year with all the birds were pretty amazing, what causes this?

Savage93

Shamrock231 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0520/451439-fodder-crisis-farmers/

Looks like the grass is being cut at Dublin Airport to help out the farmers in the current fodder crisis.

Last time the grass was cut this resulted in a large number of bird-strikes last summer, with one aircraft, an Iberworld A320 suffering an engine failure IIRC. So, whats the guess, more bird strikes in store again this summer.

Does anyone actually know the reason why all the birds seem to flock to the airport when the grass is cut? Some of the photo's taken last year with all the birds were pretty amazing, what causes this?

worms:D:D:D:D:D:D

TheBody

Shamrock231 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0520/451439-fodder-crisis-farmers/

Looks like the grass is being cut at Dublin Airport to help out the farmers in the current fodder crisis.

Last time the grass was cut this resulted in a large number of bird-strikes last summer, with one aircraft, an Iberworld A320 suffering an engine failure IIRC. So, whats the guess, more bird strikes in store again this summer.

Does anyone actually know the reason why all the birds seem to flock to the airport when the grass is cut? Some of the photo's taken last year with all the birds were pretty amazing, what causes this?

The grass provides cover for the worms. When it's cut, the birds can get at them.

Shamrock231

Are there that many worms?

I mean the grass where I live get's cut every week and I've never seen that many birds flock down and around... Do the worms just build up over the course of the year or something?

Delta Kilo

Those of us who live in the country can attest to this, when the grass is cut for silage they cut it right at the butt, leaving the yellow/brown ground after it. Its not like when you cut your lawn. They expose all the worms with their mowers and the birds hang around. You could typically see about 100 birds in a field after it is cut.

Skuxx

Shannon did the same thing 2 or 3 weeks ago, 1600 bales of silage were taken off it I think! I read that they hadn't planned to allow silage be cut in Shannon until 2015 but because of the shortage they allowed it this year! Anyone know why it wouldn't be an annual thing?

TheBody

alan1990 wrote: »

Shannon did the same thing 2 or 3 weeks ago, 1600 bales of silage were taken off it I think! I read that they hadn't planned to allow silage be cut in Shannon until 2015 but because of the shortage they allowed it this year! Anyone know why it wouldn't be an annual thing?

Probably for the reason suggested in the op about bird strikes.

Shamrock231

Given the large spike in bird-strikes after it's cut, why do they cut it at all? Why not just trim it around the edges every once in a while to stop it encroaching on the runway and taxiways?

BrakePad

Another classic example of rural/smalltown stroke politics managing to yet again overcome logical thought and safe practice! :rolleyes:

Who cares if the safety of traffic at Dublin is endangered??...sure the cows do be howling in the fields without the feed!

kona

Why is the grass in the airports ok for fodder , when the grass in the country isn't!?

Shamrock231

kona wrote: »

Why is the grass in the airports ok for fodder , when the grass in the country isn't!?

Not enough grass in the country unfortunately. Heard a figure the other day of over 500 cattle dying each day of the hunger...

Lapin

BrakePad wrote: »

Another classic example of rural/smalltown stroke politics managing to yet again overcome logical thought and safe practice! :rolleyes:

Who cares if the safety of traffic at Dublin is endangered??...sure the cows do be howling in the fields without the feed!

Thats is some load of bollox right there. ^^^^

mickdw

It would appear there is a serious issue given the way birds are attracted to freshly cut fields. Surely if there is even a 1% increase in chance of bird strick, this shouldnt be done.

Bsal

Theres going to be large flocks of starlings and crows all over the airfield now. Last year after they cut the grass there was a major problem with starlings and they ended up shooting most of them.

BrakePad

Lapin wrote: »

Thats is some load of bollox right there. ^^^^

Well I'd rather see farmer's with dead cows than dead bodies littering Dublin airport.

What do the safety of these big city aeromoplanes matter to the farmer's of Ballysmallville anyway? :rolleyes:

This creates a major safety hazard to aircraft and is yet another example of the powerful joke of a role rural politics plays in Ireland. They'll be taking the gates off level crossings to make sheds for the hay bales next! :rolleyes:

Lapin

BrakePad wrote: »

Well I'd rather see farmer's with dead cows than dead bodies littering Dublin airport.

What do the safety of these big city aeromoplanes matter to the farmer's of Ballysmallville anyway? :rolleyes:

This creates a major safety hazard to aircraft and is yet another example of the powerful joke of a role rural politics plays in Ireland. They'll be taking the gates off level crossings to make sheds for the hay bales next! :rolleyes:

Mind the eyes don't roll out of your head there. ^^^

Your wilfull ignorance regarding this issue is staggering.

Its not as if the farmers just turned up at the airport uninvited and decided to commandeer the grass without permission.

The decision was ultimately made by DAA, and there is absolutely no way they would have made such a decision if it meant compromising any aspect of safety to aircraft.

In case you didn't bother to read the OP's link, one estimate puts the cost of the fodder crisis to the Irish economy at around €1 Billion, so it is an issue that affects everyone. Not just the farmers.

In your mocking tone questioning "What do the safety of these big city aeromoplanes matter to the farmer's of Ballysmallville anyway," you seem to forget that a similar exercise was carried out at Shannon Airport a couple of weeks ago and we haven't heard of "dead bodies littering" the airport there.

I'm from an urban background myself and I don't know the first thing about farming. But I can smell bullshít when I see it and there is plenty of it in your post.

paulmcgrath

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Given the large spike in bird-strikes after it's cut, why do they cut it at all? Why not just trim it around the edges every once in a while to stop it encroaching on the runway and taxiways?

A lot of airports breed birds of prey around airfields to help keep the "vermin bird" population down.

kona

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Not enough grass in the country unfortunately. Heard a figure the other day of over 500 cattle dying each day of the hunger...

Why isn't there enough grass!?

paulmcgrath

kona wrote: »

Why isn't there enough grass!?

Weather has been ****e....

Davidth88

I think this is an excellent idea .

Isn't the grass cut to a particular length that birds hate ( about 1-2 inches IIRC ) ?

lomb

If there isnt enough fodder then there are too many cows.Simple as. Farmers like everyone elseare are always going to exploit the crap out of anything if they can. The grass should stay where it is and be trimmed lightly.

Lapin

lomb wrote: »

If there isnt enough fodder then there are too many cows.Simple as. Farmers like everyone elseare are always going to exploit the crap out of anything if they can. The grass should stay where it is and be trimmed lightly.

Grow up.

The reason there isn't enough fodder has nothing to do with the amount of livestock and everything to do with the weather. Cattle are living creatures. Not some raw material whose supply or demand can be instantly determined by the flick of a switch.

The Irish beef and dairy industries are amongst the most successful in the world employing many, many thousands here and need to be supported for the good of the country in the manner that the DAA has shown, rather than ridiculed by a few ignorant eejits who haven't a clue what they're talking about.

The length of the grass around airports is only one of a number of ways to dissuade birds from gathering in the area. There are many others.

I think I would trust the expertise of the DAA when it comes to running airports than I would, some of the self appointed experts around here. Fair play to them for this gesture of goodwill in supporting a vital Irish industry caught in a crisis through no fault of its own.

hardCopy

kona wrote: »

Why isn't there enough grass!?

Wet summer last year meant farmers had difficulty saving fodder for the winter. Supplies haven't lasted into the summer like they normally would and there hasn't been enough growth yet this year. I'm not a farmer but that's my understanding of it.

They're already shipping it in from France to try and cover the shortfall.

listermint

Perhaps SDCC can cut the grass around the southside, they seem intent on cutbacks because the grass verges on most roads around tallaght clondalkin firhouse greenhills are nearly 2 foot high.

Collect it and sell it off.

sweetie

maybe they could shoot the extra birds and then the cows cud (:)) eat them aswell

draiochtanois

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knotknowbody

lomb wrote: »

If there isnt enough fodder then there are too many cows.Simple as. Farmers like everyone elseare are always going to exploit the crap out of anything if they can. The grass should stay where it is and be trimmed lightly.

There isn't enough fodder due to the exceptionally bad summer last year and the exceptionally long winter, farmers in my area housed their animals in early October last year and some still have them housed now, in a normal year they would be housed in late November and back out in late March, that means they would have needed approximately 2 months more fodder than in any year over the last 50-60 years. They have been importing fodder from the U.K but they have now run out also, so they went to France guess what, France is cleaned out now too.

The farmers don't make the weather they are at its mercy, if the weather isn't decent the grass won't grow, you only have to look at your lawn on the verges and parks to see how late their first cutting of the year was this year compared to other years, they are not exploiting anything, they are trying to make a living in exceptionally diffficult conditions at the moment. People should really do a smidgen of research before they make comments that shows their obvious lack of knowledge about a topic.

Oh and grass is controlled at airports all over the world by cutting, its unusual to do it at this time of year but the safety implication are negligible otherwise it wouldn't have happened.

Lapin

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Has the number of cows increased massivly in the last 12 months ?

rainbowdash

kona wrote: »

Why isn't there enough grass!?

A farmer told me (so it must be the correct answer LOL) that while there is some grass the ground is very wet, or has been until recently, and if you let heavy bullocks on it they trample a lot of the grass into the ground, so for every mouthful he eats he could trample 4.

In addition to this the growth rate is behind so I assume each time the animal pulls a clump its not that big, so he must travel further to get his fill, hence trampling more.

I would also hazard a guess that farmers want to grow the grass as long as they can to make as much hay and silage as possible, but this growth is behind normal, so cutting is behind normal, and letting animals out on the field that has just had silage cut off the top is behind normal.

knotknowbody

draiochtanois wrote: »

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The number of animals in the national herd is similar to the last few years, its not a problem with numbers, its a problem with the exceptionally early onset of winter last year and the coldest March on record causing grass not to grow at its normal time.

Farmers are buying extra feed from other countries such as wheat, soya beans, citrus pulp, its being imported in massive quantities as is hay however its running out in other countries as well, the winter this year and housing period was 7 months instead of 5 that is some increase, even with contingencies and planning for the worst most industries would struggle with that kind of an increase.

I personally know of a farmer who is spending in excess of €1500 per week since mid February on this kind of feed, the problem is you can't give animals only that, they need some grass, hay or silage in their diet to keep their stomachs working properly.

draiochtanois

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hardCopy

draiochtanois wrote: »

sorry but there are too many cows or an unwillingness on the part of farmers to pay for extra feed from other countries such as wheat, soya beans, citrus pulp, etc

this isn't a crisis it is mismanagement on a massive scale.

The US had the opposite problem, drought last summer. So we're competing with them on global markets for other feeds.

Snowc

The worlds biggest planes is on the way into shannon with over 1000 bales.

Lapin

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Eh ? It has diminished. Hence the whole cause of the crisis and the reason for this thread. Keep up.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Describing the weather over the last 18 as 'poor' maybe suitable for those of us who miss out on days at the beach. But for cattle farmers it has been catastrophic. Nobody can predict the long term weather and any extra provisions made by farmers have long since been exhausted.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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If the fodder situation was affecting just a handfull of farmers due to their own mismanagement I would agree. But it is a nationwide (even European wide) crisis that goes beyond the obstacles any individual's business plan could allow for.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Tell that to the banks. Farmers have sadly taken their own lives after being refused credit to keep their business afloat through this difficult period. Cattle may not be pets but watching them starve to death after rearing them in good health must be one of the most painful experiences any business person can go through.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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No it isn't. Irish beef and dairy products are respected and demanded worldwide precisely because our cattle are fed on fresh calcium rich pasture for most of the year rather than spending months indoors and fed on artificial feeds.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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True. Bear that in mind if you have to pay more for food in the coming weeks to a fall in supply of dairy and beef.



Its just a few acres worth of free grass from an airport to help out a tiny fraction of farmers in trouble FFS. Not a multi million euro bailout.

draiochtanois

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Lapin

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Yes, respected.

Hence the continuing high demand for Irish beef worldwide.

The horsemeat 'saga' was due to the actions of a small number of food processing companies, not the farmers themselves and not unique to Ireland.

And it was stringent inspections by Irish food safety authorities that exposed the practice in the first place.

But thats an entirely different issue and way off topic.

rainbowdash

Lapin wrote: »

Yes, respected.

Hence the continuing high demand for Irish beef worldwide.

The horsemeat 'saga' was due to the actions of a small number of food processing companies, not the farmers themselves and not unique to Ireland.

And it was stringent inspections by Irish food safety authorities that exposed the practice in the first place.

But thats an entirely different issue and way off topic.

To be honest I thought that was more a case of positive spin from Coveney, and fair play to him, he did a job on the whole thing, in my opinion, trying to divert negative attention from Ireland.

LeftBase

Lapin wrote: »

Your wilfull ignorance regarding this issue is staggering.

Sorry to climb into your boat here lads but I have to say given what you go on to say Lapin this statement is a little ironic

Lapin wrote: »

Its not as if the farmers just turned up at the airport uninvited and decided to commandeer the grass without permission.

The decision was ultimately made by DAA, and there is absolutely no way they would have made such a decision if it meant compromising any aspect of safety to aircraft.

I refuse to believe you would be so naive. At the risk of getting bogged down on Irish pseudo politics I'll just state that a rural problem is a govt problem. The govt has to be seen to be helping the rural community as much as possible so as their vote is not threatened and I'm more than sure that Leo had the phone up pretty quick to instruct the DAA that the mowers were on the way up. Look at it this way...the DAA have known for years that the taxiways at Dublin are really badly marked and when it rains(so a large amount of the time) they can become almost impossible to decipher...that seriously endangers aircraft(and fairly recently lead to a runway incursion) but they don't do anything about it. The DAA does what financially suits them and what financially suits them most is to keep the govt well on side. Nobody can deny that this is a serious risk to aircraft safety and that is just something that is not tolerated in the industry....but aviation has never met the like's of the Healy-Raes and their lobby!

Lapin wrote: »

In case you didn't bother to read the OP's link, one estimate puts the cost of the fodder crisis to the Irish economy at around €1 Billion, so it is an issue that affects everyone. Not just the farmers.

If a jet goes down with all hands exactly how much will it cost the state in legal fees, AAIU investigation costs, pay outs and red faces when the airline and relatives sue them?

Lapin wrote: »

In your mocking tone questioning "What do the safety of these big city aeromoplanes matter to the farmer's of Ballysmallville anyway," you seem to forget that a similar exercise was carried out at Shannon Airport a couple of weeks ago and we haven't heard of "dead bodies littering" the airport there.

Comparing Shannon and Dublin in this sense is just laughable. The sheer amount of birds that congregate in Dublin due to the massive urban centre dwarfs Shannon totally. The traffic volume in to Dublin is much larger than Shannon. Dublin has had birdstrikes in the last while and you can be assured that there will be far more birds at the airport this year. All it takes is 1 flock to hit one aircraft......and remember..we dont have a Hudson river to land in!

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

kona wrote: »

Why isn't there enough grass!?

we have had one of the coldest springs on record, nature is 5-6 weeks behind as a result. In April 2012, we had temps up to 20 decrees, this year we had snow drifts in april in parts of the country. Combine this with a very wet summer last year which resulted in a lot less silage being made than a normal summer.

lomb wrote: »

If there isnt enough fodder then there are too many cows.Simple as. Farmers like everyone elseare are always going to exploit the crap out of anything if they can. The grass should stay where it is and be trimmed lightly.

I have to laugh at your ignorance.

If a friend offers to help you in your time of need, are you exploiting them? by your logic, the answer is yes.

LeftBase wrote: »

I'll just state that a rural problem is a govt problem.

considering around 80% of the beef we produce is exported, and generates lots of money for the entire country, how exactly is it just a rural problem?


As for cutting the grass, if the mowers are kept around 1-2 inches from the ground, then it wont attract birds, like when a lawn is cut.

kona

All very interesting. By the time the daa search the tractors on the way in and make sure it's grass coming out, the grass will be compost

Lapin

LeftBase wrote: »

The govt has to be seen to be helping the rural community as much as possible so as their vote is not threatened and I'm more than sure that Leo had the phone up pretty quick to instruct the DAA that the mowers were on the way up...... The DAA does what financially suits them and what financially suits them most is to keep the govt well on side. Nobody can deny that this is a serious risk to aircraft safety and that is just something that is not tolerated in the industry....but aviation has never met the like's of the Healy-Raes and their lobby!

This is perfect fodder for the tin foil hat brigade if you'll pardon the pun.

Suggesting that professional management at the country's busiest transport facility would drop all safety measures and risk the lives of their customers on the whim of a vote concsious politician is quite frankly, a load of crap.

If anything, the politicians will look to cream off some positive publicity as a result of the DAA's decision.

LeftBase wrote: »

Look at it this way...the DAA have known for years that the taxiways at Dublin are really badly marked and when it rains(so a large amount of the time) they can become almost impossible to decipher...that seriously endangers aircraft(and fairly recently lead to a runway incursion) but they don't do anything about it.

Can we take it that you have refused to fly to or from Dublin Airport in "for years" then, and will continue not to do so until until the grass grows again and the taxiways markings get tarted up?

Fair enough if you don't, but I'd rather trust the thousands of airline pilots who have no problem using the place annually.

LeftBase wrote: »

If a jet goes down with all hands exactly how much will it cost the state in legal fees, AAIU investigation costs, pay outs and red faces when the airline and relatives sue them?

Very silly point.

LeftBase wrote: »

Comparing Shannon and Dublin in this sense is just laughable. The sheer amount of birds that congregate in Dublin due to the massive urban centre dwarfs Shannon totally. The traffic volume in to Dublin is much larger than Shannon. Dublin has had birdstrikes in the last while and you can be assured that there will be far more birds at the airport this year. All it takes is 1 flock to hit one aircraft......and remember..we dont have a Hudson river to land in!

I doubt the birds give a monkey's toss how busy an airport is.

And anyway, as I said earlier, there are many different methods used by airport authorities to scare them off. Used everyday in airports serving even more 'massive urban centres' than a relatively small city like Dublin.

Don't worry about the grass around the runways. It will grow back soon. In the meantime its been put to excellent use and there will be extra measures put in place to scare off the crows. You can be sure it wouldn't have been cut if there wasn't.

Savage93

kona wrote: »

Why isn't there enough grass!?

Have you just been released from Guantanamo Bay or what?????

Peregrine

Sunny Clumsy Rabies wrote: »

As for cutting the grass, if the mowers are kept around 1-2 inches from the ground, then it wont attract birds, like when a lawn is cut.

1-2 inch long grass?

I remember reading somewhere that all airports in the UK have a long grass policy where grass is always kept at 6 inches or above. And the FAA recommends 6 to 12 inches at all times.

I don't know what the norm for cutting grass at DUB is though.
But the grass is being cut by the usual contractors under the DAA's instruction right? So I can't imagine them mowing it dangerously low but I think a few bird strikes are definitely in store.


Guys, what's with all the hostility? There's no need for us to turn this into a 'Country vs City' argument.

kona

Savage93 wrote: »

Have you just been released from Guantanamo Bay or what?????

No I live inside the m50 and don't really give a **** about the potato munchers world. I've enough of my own.

Growler!!!

In regard to the "sheer amount of birds that congregate in Dublin due to the massive urban centre dwarfs Shannon totally. "

Can you support that "fact"?

Shannon airport is built on a drained piece of wetland. Shaped like a triangle, it has the Shannon estuary on one side and the Fergus estuary on the other with its back toward higher ground. According to the national parks and wildlife there are over 50,000 birds there. After the grass was cut a number of weeks ago there was no sudden influx of birds and no reported birds strikes.

Peregrine

Growler!!! wrote: »

After the grass was cut a number of weeks ago there was no sudden influx of birds and no reported birds strikes.

True but you can't ignore the fact that Shannon has 10 times less aircraft to actually hit the birds.

Growler!!!

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

True but you can't ignore the fact that Shannon has 10 times less aircraft to actually hit the birds.

That wasn't my point as you well know.

christy c

kona wrote: »

No I live inside the m50 and don't really give a **** about the potato munchers world. I've enough of my own.

Could you be any more of a knob?

technocrat

kona wrote: »

No I live inside the m50 and don't really give a **** about the potato munchers world. I've enough of my own.

So people inside the m50 don't eat chips??!

FWVT

Oh ffs this thread's become a joke. There are Farming and Politics forums for those who want to sling mud at each other on those topics.

Dublin seems to be fairly prone to bird activity, including racing pigeons that are regularly notamed as heading northwards up the east coast. It remains to be seen what effect this cutting has on the activity, but there was a multiple bird-strike only 10 days ago...before any grass was cut...and no less than three during May last year.

http://avherald.com/h?search_term=dublin+bird&opt=0&dosearch=1&search.x=-1231&search.y=-105

Lapin

FWVT wrote: »

Oh ffs this thread's become a joke. There are Farming and Politics forums for those who want to sling mud at each other on those topics.

Its still an aviation topic and thats what my posts here are addressing against a backdrop of ridiculous comments suggesting that the decision to cut the grass was done to appease farmers due to political expediency at the behest of safety to airline passengers.

Those attempting to steer this into an urban / rural "mud slinging" match would do well to remember that Dublin Airport is not the property of the people of that city but owned by the state.

Its the idiotic nature of comments like the one below that derail good discussions on threads like this, and as such, they are best ignored.
Such moronic contributions wouldn't be heeded in either the Politics or Farming forums and shouldn't be given consideration here.

kona wrote: »

No I live inside the m50 and don't really give a **** about the potato munchers world. I've enough of my own.

Anyone who thinks this is a rural V urban debate is missing the point.