Dog Thefts - why is nothing been done?

meowski

Since moving to Ferrybank 6 months ago all I hear about it the huge amount of dogs getting stolen. I have 2 dogs myself and I have been warned by numerous people (neighbors, shop keepers, parents at the school) to make sure I never leave them unattended in the garden etc in case they get stolen.

I am shocked by the sheer number of people who have had their dogs stolen (or assumed stolen) but even more shocked that everyone seems to know who has been doing it! The brothers are referred to as the dog thieves!!

Why has nothing ever been done about it, people say they report it but the Guards do nothing! why not?

Im seriously thinking of moving again as we are always on edge about something happening to our dogs

Brianne

I totally agree with you Meowski. I cannot believe something is not being done about this either if it is so widely known who these guys are. Are they selling on these dogs and if so where are they doing this? Are they selling through any particular website? This is very serious and very sad for the people whose dogs have been stolen. Have the guards ever visited these people I wonder?
Its a sad state of affairs if you would have to move house over these sick individuals. I think its every dog lovers nightmare that their pets would be stolen.

thomasm

Some 'people' are above the law and frankly don't give a crap if they are caught unfortunately.

Saw a facebook post by the Deise Animal Sanctuary warning about this claiming the are using the dogs as bait for training fighting dogs.

Twoelles

thomasm wrote: »

Some 'people' are above the law and frankly don't give a crap if they are caught unfortunately.

Saw a facebook post by the Deise Animal Sanctuary warning about this claiming the are using the dogs as bait for training fighting dogs.

The two aren't related. The post by the deise animal sanctuary is about a warning that is been posted up in local shops in Waterford. There are rumours that there is another gang in operation with regards to the dog fighting

marlin vs

Deise Animal Sanctuary


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Brianne

Is there anything can be done about these 'dog thieves' then or is this just going to continue happening? Whats the next step?

spankmemunkey

A friend of mine was going to buy a dog, think it was a german sheppard and her husband was sure it was a good idea for home security till a friend of his told that his pregnant German Shepard was stolen they didnt hear a thing, stolen in the night no barking, Think an electric fence would be better, sure theyd try to kill that too

fozz10

yes everyone knows whos doing it, yes the guards know about it, yes its the same 2 things that keep doing it. the guards are afraid of them its as simple as that. they dont want to know when it comes to those 2. they will simply say theres nothing they can do. ive witnessed it first hand. sometimes if your lucky enough theyll give the dog back for a large fee. amazing country this.

Brianne

Where are these guys selling the dogs? Surely something more has to be done. This can't keep going on. Fozz you said you witnessed this first hand, is it possible that you could let us know your story maybe?

fozz10

Brianne wrote: »

Where are these guys selling the dogs? Surely something more has to be done. This can't keep going on. Fozz you said you witnessed this first hand, is it possible that you could let us know your story maybe? I'm not gonna say anything but if anyone know guards personally just ask them they'll tell u the same thing they just don't wanna be getting involved with em. I a also know a woman who paid 300 to get her dog back from them. They will just keep doing it caus. They know no laws only there own and there left away with it.

Brianne

Are these dogs kept where they live and in what conditions? Does dog warden ever pay them a visit. There has to be a way of stopping this surely. How long has this been going on? Are these guys involved in other stufff besides this?

fozz10

Brianne wrote: »

Are these dogs kept where they live and in what conditions? Does dog warden ever pay them a visit. There has to be a way of stopping this surely. How long has this been going on? Are these guys involved in other stufff besides this?

They also breed dogs and keep them in the boot all night, all small dogs. You'll see them running around all day. BYes the dog warden always calls and helps them with any dogs that are sick. He's probably over with them weekly. All for free of course. It wouldn't be fair to charge them.

Cabaal

spankmemunkey, I've deleted your post as its off-topic for the thread.
If you have something proper to add then by all means please post, however your post had no relevance.

spankmemunkey

Cabaal wrote: »

spankmemunkey, I've deleted your post as its off-topic for the thread.
If you have something proper to add then by all means please post, however your post had no relevance.

Okay i hope you find your dog, I see your gonna be busy on here if your gonna start stopping people using humour on the site, I will send you private messages from now on when i see other people using humour and not talkig specificly about a topic and another member of the moderation team that ive been speaking to already to see you do that too in the spirit of fairness.

Brianne

fozz10 wrote: »

They also breed dogs and keep them in the boot all night, all small dogs. You'll see them running around all day. BYes the dog warden always calls and helps them with any dogs that are sick. He's probably over with them weekly. All for free of course. It wouldn't be fair to charge them.

I cant believe what Im hearing, you say the warden calls and helps them. Now at least Im glad the sick dogs are being helped by somebody but what about the licence situation? Does that mean then all these dogs are licenced??

fozz10

Well thats the great country we live in. They pay for nothing. That warden is there a few times a week. License!!! don't make me laugh!!! If they do they got it for free!

Brianne

Is the warden aware that these people are involved in stealing dogs? How exactly does the warden help the sick dogs?

fozz10

Brianne wrote: »

Is the warden aware that these people are involved in stealing dogs?

I have no idea. But it's as plain as day

spankmemunkey

Who are these people? why are you afraid to say it? this was the exact reason behind my posts about Tesco Petrol in Ballybeg,

stefan idiot jones

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Who are these people? why are you afraid to say it? this was the exact reason behind my posts about Tesco Petrol in Ballybeg,

FFS, as the Mod pointed out AGAIN in your empty shop thread, without a link or proof of wrong doing, naming people will result in a ban.
It was quite clear about damaging and tarnishing people's and businesses good name on Boards without any real, solid proof.

spankmemunkey

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

FFS, as the Mod pointed out AGAIN in your empty shop thread, without a link or proof of wrong doing, naming people will result in a ban.
It was quite clear about damaging and tarnishing people's and businesses good name on Boards without any real, solid proof.

If you dont like what i say "FFS" dont reply to me keep away from me you are harrassing me you are following me around and are a pest, stop trying to engage me and these directs verbal insults toward me.

Potential-Monke

I wonder how many of these dogs which are being stolen are chipped or in some way legally identifiable? Having a picture and saying "that is my dog" is not enough.

Luckily, it will soon be a legal requirement to have all dogs chipped, and that should bring an end to this kind of carry on. Personally, if your dog is not chipped and licensed, and gets stolen, then i've no sympathy. You leave yourself no chance of proving that a dog is yours without either of them. Same as someone who leaves valuables/handbags on display in a car. No, it's not nice to have your car broken into, but it happens, and leaving someone valuable on display is only tempting fate. People have to realise that crime is increasing, and no one is safe. Prevention is better than cure!!!

People are blaming the Gardai. I'm blue in the face from saying that the Gardai cannot do anything without proof! CCTV, witness statements of people who actually saw the theft, witnesses who are willing to go to court and testify, etc. Would be a great country to just pull these people up in front of a judge, say "they did it" and land them in jail. But then anyone could land anyone in jail. It's all about the evidence; good, hard, indisputable evidence.

Not The Real Scarecrow

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I wonder how many of these dogs which are being stolen are chipped or in some way legally identifiable? Having a picture and saying "that is my dog" is not enough.

Luckily, it will soon be a legal requirement to have all dogs chipped, and that should bring an end to this kind of carry on. Personally, if your dog is not chipped and licensed, and gets stolen, then i've no sympathy. You leave yourself no chance of proving that a dog is yours without either of them. Same as someone who leaves valuables/handbags on display in a car. No, it's not nice to have your car broken into, but it happens, and leaving someone valuable on display is only tempting fate. People have to realise that crime is increasing, and no one is safe. Prevention is better than cure!!!

People are blaming the Gardai. I'm blue in the face from saying that the Gardai cannot do anything without proof! CCTV, witness statements of people who actually saw the theft, witnesses who are willing to go to court and testify, etc. Would be a great country to just pull these people up in front of a judge, say "they did it" and land them in jail. But then anyone could land anyone in jail. It's all about the evidence; good, hard, indisputable evidence.

Don't matter about the chip or licence as unfortuately these scum bags normally cut out the chip forst if they feel it under the skin of the dog.Thats half the problem as even if the cops catch hem with a dog and the chip is removed there's very little proof that its not theirs.
Bit harsh not to have any sympathy on some one who's dog gets robbed even if their not chipped.Not having a micro chip isn't an open invite to have your dog stolen and it definitely doesn't act as a deterrant.All it really is ,is a small security blanket and a handy way for the authorities and vets to make a few quid.
Micro chip or not , if these guys want your dog,they'll figure a way to get it.

Potential-Monke

I'll have sympathy for someone whose dog gets robbed if the dog was chipped. Even if the person who robbed it cuts out the chip, at least it shows that the owner cared about the dog enough to put some sort of back up should the dog go missing/get robbed. And i know not having a chip isn't an open invite, but it's a deterrent. You will always have criminals who commit crime regardless of the deterrents, but deciding that "ah shur, if it's going to happen it's going to happen, why bother chipping?" is the same as leaving your front door open when you leave, or leaving your car unlocked in a car park. It's not an invitation, but it makes it easier, and the easier the crime, the higher the probability of the crime happening.

People are very quick to blame others, when the basic steps are not followed by themselves.

Its Kinda like bike theft. Its just being accepted and there are no prosecutions. The unfortunate thing, having a dog stolen for alot of family's is like a kidnapping and can be a very traumatic for the family. But not for anybody else which makes it even more traumatic as there is no support.

Gardai are being stretched too thin thanks to the current government's cuts. Dog theft is seen as exceptable.

Brianne

Deleted User wrote: »

The unfortunate thing, having a dog stolen for alot of family's is like a kidnapping and can be a very traumatic for the family. But not for anybody else which makes it even more traumatic as there is no support.

Very true. To those who love their dogs they're part of the family and it is heart breaking when this happens. Equally for the poor dog it must be as bad and also what kind of homes to these stolen dogs go to. It is such a sad state of affairs that we have such heartless individuals out there that continue to do this and can go around laughing at the authorities knowing with their bully boy tactics they can get away with it. It certainly is a great country alright.

lewisdhead

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I wonder how many of these dogs which are being stolen are chipped or in some way legally identifiable? Having a picture and saying "that is my dog" is not enough.

Luckily, it will soon be a legal requirement to have all dogs chipped, and that should bring an end to this kind of carry on. Personally, if your dog is not chipped and licensed, and gets stolen, then i've no sympathy. You leave yourself no chance of proving that a dog is yours without either of them. Same as someone who leaves valuables/handbags on display in a car. No, it's not nice to have your car broken into, but it happens, and leaving someone valuable on display is only tempting fate. People have to realise that crime is increasing, and no one is safe. Prevention is better than cure!!!

People are blaming the Gardai. I'm blue in the face from saying that the Gardai cannot do anything without proof! CCTV, witness statements of people who actually saw the theft, witnesses who are willing to go to court and testify, etc. Would be a great country to just pull these people up in front of a judge, say "they did it" and land them in jail. But then anyone could land anyone in jail. It's all about the evidence; good, hard, indisputable evidence.

All good points, but not the point of this thread. These thefts are happening, and when it does it's the owners get blamed for not having dogs chipped, or in a secure compound, or licenced etc. Gardai don't take it seriously and more or less shrug their shoulders. Too much hassle for them and one could speculate that they are afraid of the culprits. Regarding collecting evidence, the guards won't even try, it's the same with house burglaries, and I can say that from experience. There's no proof because they aren't bothered looking for it. Is it up to the owner to provide the proof? The thing is, it's known who the culprits are, and nothing is being done, I believe that is the point. I agree owners have responsibilities regarding security but I believe most dog owners are responsible.

Hoffmans

is there any truth then that the hobos are following people home while they walk their dogs and tag the footpath or wall outside their house with a symbol as to what type of dog they have and if its worth robbing?:mad:

Potential-Monke

lewisdhead wrote: »

All good points, but not the point of this thread. These thefts are happening, and when it does it's the owners get blamed for not having dogs chipped, or in a secure compound, or licenced etc. Gardai don't take it seriously and more or less shrug their shoulders. Too much hassle for them and one could speculate that they are afraid of the culprits. Regarding collecting evidence, the guards won't even try, it's the same with house burglaries, and I can say that from experience. There's no proof because they aren't bothered looking for it. Is it up to the owner to provide the proof? The thing is, it's known who the culprits are, and nothing is being done, I believe that is the point. I agree owners have responsibilities regarding security but I believe most dog owners are responsible.

One shouldn't speculate, they deal with these people on a daily basis so fear is not a driving factor. It's evidence. Or lack thereof. It's getting harder and harder to prove anything these days, and with the criminal side of things, it has to be "proven beyond a reasonable doubt", something which is virtually impossible without CCTV, witnesses, a paper trail, or being caught red handed. And as for collecting evidence, usually there is none to collect in cases of dog thefts.

I will say that dog theft would be low on the scale of crime, when put beside assaults, robberies, and burglaries (not to mention the serious crimes like murder, sexual assault, etc). With ever decreasing numbers, and ever increasing incidents of robberies and burglaries, more effort is going to be made on those cases. It would be great to put a full, proper investigation into every crime, but it's just not possible any more.

meoklmrk91

Potential-Monke wrote: »

One shouldn't speculate, they deal with these people on a daily basis so fear is not a driving factor. It's evidence. Or lack thereof. It's getting harder and harder to prove anything these days, and with the criminal side of things, it has to be "proven beyond a reasonable doubt", something which is virtually impossible without CCTV, witnesses, a paper trail, or being caught red handed. And as for collecting evidence, usually there is none to collect in cases of dog thefts.

I will say that dog theft would be low on the scale of crime, when put beside assaults, robberies, and burglaries (not to mention the serious crimes like murder, sexual assault, etc). With ever decreasing numbers, and ever increasing incidents of robberies and burglaries, more effort is going to be made on those cases. It would be great to put a full, proper investigation into every crime, but it's just not possible any more.

Dog theft would be low on the scale of crime to be fair. But when if think about it even if you take the dog out of it is still theft, handling of stolen goods, possibly selling stolen goods. Not to mention the fact that people are who steal dogs are quite often involved in other nefarious activities, if they are happy to steal a dog they will be happy to steal anything else at the very least.

I'm not from Waterford, just popped into this thread because this has become a massive problem in the last few years up and down the country. A few weeks ago a friend of mine had their dog stolen, he was chipped, and an unusual breed not one you would come across very often. Not a sight nor sign of him has been seen yet. The owner has been told by the guards that they are watching a gang that they believe are involved and they are keeping him up to date in the situation. I know of atleast 2 gangs operating in my area. Not by name or anything, just whispers. They aren't just stealing one dog, they are stealing many, so while one dog theft might not be be very high on the guards list of priorities, numerous ones should be, one gang in my area are suspected of the theft of hundreds of dogs last year around Munster so we are talking big money. And who knows what else these types are involved in.

I would honestly prefer my dog to drop dead in front of me in the morning than be stolen, who knows the kind of hands he could fall into. It's a disgrace that people can't even have a family pet in this country without them being taken. I know that if I knew someone had my dog and tried to get me to pay a ransom I wouldn't be responsible for my actions. Scumbags :mad:

Brianne

meoklmrk you say you know of two gangs operating in your area. Are these the same gangs the Gardai are aware of also? Would these people be actually local to the area then too?
Back along the posts it was mentioned that the dog warden actually regularly visits these Ferrybank dog thieves which is fairly amazing in itself. He would be better off spending his time visiting homes and giving a bit of useful advice to people in to being more safety conscious about their pets and protecting them. Amazing how times have changed, one time you had a dog who as well as being a pet was security for people if they gave a few barks to alert to someone around and now we have to protect the dogs instead of they protecting us.

shockwave

Do they target certain breeds or just whatever they can grab?

I would have thought your average mutt would be fairly safe.

Brianne

Nothing is safe so take no chances.

Potential-Monke

Nothing is safe, they will take any breed, the strong ones for fighting, the weak ones for bait, and the expensive ones for selling.

And i do agree that the theft of dogs is becoming a big problem, but it's a big problem in the pool of massive problems. Honestly tell me, which is more imprtant out of the following:

Dog Theft
Burglaries
Robberies
Drug Crime

Each of them is increasing. I'm not saying the Gardai should not investigate 1 so they can investigate the other, but (as i keep referring) it's all about evidence. Dog Theft usually has no evidence to follow up on, other than whispers and rumours, which are not of evidential value. Burglars can leave evidence in the form of fingerprints, blood, method of entry, items taken, etc. Robberies usually occur in areas with CCTV. Drug Crime (specifically the major importers) have a trail, and bottom end users who are willing to say who they got it from so they can get out and have their next hit.

If there was more proof, more evidence, then dog crime would be easier to detect/prevent. But as it is, and as the courts are requiring more and more proof these days, it's very hard to get a conviction for it.

I;m not excusing the lack of investigation into dog theft, just trying to explain it from a legal and investigative side.

sparkling sea

Right, where are these dogs being held ? If someone can pm me the details I have no problem ringing and ringing and ringing the gardai and the dog warden. Its f***ing ridiculous that this is happening; the only way to stop it IMO is to become more of an annoyance then the people stealing the dogs.
Please ring the gardai and the dog warden EVERY day if you actually know where stolen and mistreated dogs are being held.

Potential-Monke

sparkling sea wrote: »

Please ring the gardai and the dog warden EVERY day if you actually know where stolen and mistreated dogs are being held.

And you'll be asked for proof, and willingness to make a statement. If you have both, ring away!

Obro

sparkling sea wrote: »

Right, where are these dogs being held ? If someone can pm me the details I have no problem ringing and ringing and ringing the gardai and the dog warden. Its f***ing ridiculous that this is happening; the only way to stop it IMO is to become more of an annoyance then the people stealing the dogs.
Please ring the gardai and the dog warden EVERY day if you actually know where stolen and mistreated dogs are being held.

Thats the spirit ! Too many people stand by and do nothing in this country.

Need any help pm me.

Trick of the Tail

I'm afraid to say that the Gardai are a bit lazy sometimes, and will ignore crimes that are either a hassle to investigate or might cause some other hardship.

So, I add my voice, DO call them, and call again until they bother to do something about it!

Obro

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

I'm afraid to say that the Gardai are a bit lazy sometimes, and will ignore crimes that are either a hassle to investigate or might cause some other hardship.

So, I add my voice, DO call them, and call again until they bother to do something about it!

The Gardai should get involved as chances are these guys are in to alot of other stuff as well. Onthe the other hand they might be really good informants for the Gardai so won't be troubled.

Reminds me of a recent matter close to where I live, the Gardai called out to a guy about a small enough matter but when they were there they found the Aladin's cave of a pile of stuff that had been stolen locally over a 4 year period. Figures were put on it at around €500K

meowski

sparkling sea wrote: »

Right, where are these dogs being held ? If someone can pm me the details I have no problem ringing and ringing and ringing the gardai and the dog warden. Its f***ing ridiculous that this is happening; the only way to stop it IMO is to become more of an annoyance then the people stealing the dogs.
Please ring the gardai and the dog warden EVERY day if you actually know where stolen and mistreated dogs are being held.

I completely agree and will help anyway i can

Are people who have had their dogs stolen reporting it? if not maybe we can begin to compile a list of people who have had their dogs stolen. The figures are huge so they have to listen.
and as for proof...maybe we can get some

Obro

meowski wrote: »

I completely agree and will help anyway i can

Are people who have had their dogs stolen reporting it? if not maybe we can begin to compile a list of people who have had their dogs stolen. The figures are huge so they have to listen.
and as for proof...maybe we can get some

Where I live , I hear of dogs been stolen every other day. Seemingly one guy goes around and identifys the houses with the dogs by leaving a coloured sticker on the gate and the actual thieves come later and carry out the theft.

Thankfully we have been lucky. We take unbelievable care to make sure we are not victims of these crimes.

jo06555

I heard the dog warden on billy mcarthy a few weeks ago and obviously billy was receiving texts about theft of dogs but the warden said he had not seein a increase in reports so they never really talked about it to my disgust I know these dogs are being stolen as iv heard all about it , so why has our dog warden not being put under more pressure to try sort this problem out??? Is he too busy following dogs with no license or muzzle??? As for wlr they obviously know theirs a problem but are too afraid to properly discuss it just incase they upset the criminals or groups who are stealing dogs.... the cops wont do a thing especially with all the other crimes going unanswered.

rasper

If someonea pm s me as much detail as possible I have no problem in making moves , the gardai , council, ispca ,dog warden and whoever else required

Tge more people who do it chances wre the problem will be retrified

Media999

Still no details or locations of dogs being stolen?

Brianne

Its no wonder this is happening and will keep happening when people who have details are just keeping their mouths shut. There is a saying goes something like -All it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to remain silent- If so many people are so concerned something needs to be done quickly.

spankmemunkey

Brianne wrote: »

Its no wonder this is happening and will keep happening when people who have details are just keeping their mouths shut. There is a saying goes something like -All it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to remain silent- If so many people are so concerned something needs to be done quickly.

I quoted something similar on here but was criticised for it, We all know who it is yet nothing can be done, If we didnt live in such a "civilised" PC society this would have been stopped along time ago, dont forget politicians have a term and the dont want to jeopardise their strength by tackling anything controversial.

Brianne

It would be a start if somebody could pm the names and address of these people. Some other poster on here mentioned this happening where he lives, if we could get those details also it would be good. We don't want any details posted up publicly. People are on here anonymous so we don't all know each other so I can't understand why this information is not been given.

spankmemunkey

Brianne wrote: »

It would be a start if somebody could pm the names and address of these people. Some other poster on here mentioned this happening where he lives, if we could get those details also it would be good. We don't want any details posted up publicly. People are on here anonymous so we don't all know each other so I can't understand why this information is not been given.

I would just advise you to thread carefully and be careful what you write on here! thats a friendly piece of experienced advise!

Brianne

spankmemunkey wrote: »

I would just advise you to thread carefully and be careful what you write on here! thats a friendly piece of experienced advise!

Thanks for that. Just wish something could be done.

Media999

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Nothing is safe, they will take any breed, the strong ones for fighting, the weak ones for bait, and the expensive ones for selling.

How do you actually know this?

HurtLocker

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'll have sympathy for someone whose dog gets robbed if the dog was chipped. Even if the person who robbed it cuts out the chip, at least it shows that the owner cared about the dog enough to put some sort of back up should the dog go missing/get robbed. And i know not having a chip isn't an open invite, but it's a deterrent.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Personally, if your dog is not chipped and licensed, and gets stolen, then i've no sympathy. You leave yourself no chance of proving that a dog is yours without either of them. Same as someone who leaves valuables/handbags on display in a car. No, it's not nice to have your car broken into, but it happens, and leaving someone valuable on display is only tempting fate. People have to realise that crime is increasing, and no one is safe. Prevention is better than cure!!!

You've completely alienated the average dog owner. Its one thing to encourage others to chip their dogs a completely different thing to declare no sympathy to ones who've had their dogs stolen. And to insinuate they didn't care about their dogs!

I understand dogs should be chipped, but that never excuses people stealing or the guards not being proactive. These are family members to most not cars or jewellery. I'd rather my car be stolen than my dog.

But if a pr*ck wants a dog unless one is very proactive or lucky theirs not much one can do. No dogs are robbed near me thank god. I've my side gates locked and sensor lights let me know where my dog is. But in the end its luck.