Mods reading reported posts in fora they don't moderate

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Any way of changing the scripts of boards and stopping this practice? Especially when they then openly admit to doing it on thread like here by Nuri Sahin.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056933768/362/#post84698089

Clear abuse of power and its very disconcerting that one user who happens to be a mod on another forum can be party to the reporting process that is private and confidential for everyone else. It would really make you think twice about reporting posts when other users who really have no business doing so are spending their time trawling the Reported Posts forum and worse still b*tching about it on thread.

Not sure if there's a rule about this for Mods but there sure as hell should be and even if three isn't it shows that some Mods clearly went of the calibre of person fit to be doing the job in the first place.

Funny, I remember this been asked before

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75410146

5starpool

He is not a mod. He was, but isn't anymore. Also, have you nothing better to worry about ffs? Why do people get so precious over such small things?

Xavi6

Epic username

Ando's Saggy Bottom

rarnes1 wrote: »

Funny, I remember this been asked before

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75410146

Yes and two years later its clearly still a very real and live issue.

Rafa's Wrinkly Ballbag

Rafa's Wrinkly Ballbag wrote: »

Yes and two years later its still a very real and live issue.

Not really when the guy you are complaining about isn't even a mod. Not sure who the previous one you posted about was.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not really when the guy you are complaining about isn't even a mod. Not sure who the previous one you posted about was.

How then does he know who does or doesn't report posts? Wasn't he a mod in the past?

Rafa's Wrinkly Ballbag

Rafa's Wrinkly Ballbag wrote: »

How then does he know who does or doesn't report posts? Wasn't he a mod in the past?

Not sure why you're so bothered.

Seems like you have a problem with the poster more than anything.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not sure why you're so bothered.

Seems like you have a problem with the poster more than anything.

Ok, thanks for the input.

Regardless of the specific case highlighted here its more the overall difference in status that a mod and non mod hold in fora that neither moderate that's quite disconcerting.

Rafa's Wrinkly Ballbag

Rafa's Wrinkly Ballbag wrote: »

Ok, thanks for the input.

How flahtering.

For Pete's sake was only giving an opinion. Would it be better if I just talked utter cloptrop.

I'm sure a mod will clarify this important issue

Ando's Saggy Bottom

rarnes1 wrote: »

How flahtering.

For Pete's sake was only giving an opinion. Would it be better if I just talked utter cloptrop.

I'm sure a mod will clarify this important issue

Not sure how triumphantly referencing some of my previous usernames, none of which were or are a secret, really helps here tbh.

Soby

Rafa's Wrinkly Ballbag wrote: »

Any way of changing the scripts of boards and stopping this practice? Especially when they then openly admit to doing it on thread like here by Nuri Sahin.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056933768/362/#post84698089

Clear abuse of power and its very disconcerting that one user who happens to be a mod on another forum can be party to the reporting process that is private and confidential for everyone else. It would really make you think twice about reporting posts when other users who really have no business doing so are spending their time trawling the Reported Posts forum and worse still b*tching about it on thread.

Not sure if there's a rule about this for Mods but there sure as hell should be and even if three isn't it shows that some Mods clearly went of the calibre of person fit to be doing the job in the first place.

Hes a bastard , Nuri Sahin said he loved me once...never called me back :( . After he made the first move and everything over a glass of wine, some battlefield 3 and a mango

LuckyLloyd

Clever thread in some respects. A deep black hatred of a specific poster wrapped up within a somewhat valid issue / inconsistency. Good stuff.

Anyway, ideally mods would only see reported posts within the global category their forum sits in - i.e. if a dude mods soccer he only sees all reported posts from Sports. This would allow them the learning opportunity of getting a feel for how issues are handled without compromising the integrity of the 'mods are regular users outside their own forums' idea or the neccesary privacy if users have issues with their posts elsewhere on the site.

The 'oh well, I'm sure people don't read things in Reported Posts that don't concern their forums' doesn't wash.

Will I Amnt

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not sure why you're so bothered.

Seems like you have a problem with the poster more than anything.

Said without a hint of irony :rolleyes:

All you have done here is have a go at the op, why not comment on the subject at hand?
It's a very valid point.

Spear

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Anyway, ideally mods would only see reported posts within the global category their forum sits in - i.e. if a dude mods soccer he only sees all reported posts from Sports.

That'd be a little undermined by mods that span multiple categories. In my case that'd cover Tech, Games and System straight off.

But as has always been the case, abusing/exploiting the reported posts visibility is considered a serious breach of the trust placed in a mod.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The 'oh well, I'm sure people don't read things in Reported Posts that don't concern their forums' doesn't wash.

This was what has been said in the past alright but clearly it is happening.

As for "deep and black hatred" I included the example because if I hadn't the party line would most likely have been "Mods don't do this as we haven't seen it happen." Now that doesn't wash.

LuckyLloyd

Spear wrote: »

That'd be a little undermined by mods that span multiple categories. In my case that'd cover Tech, Games and System straight off.

But as has always been the case, abusing/exploiting the reported posts visibility is considered a serious breach of the trust placed in a mod.

But not Rec, Region, Science, Soc, Sports, Hosted, Edu, Biz, Arts, Music

How do you know whether people are abusing or exploiting it? Very easy to search through and find what you want to find. Sometimes there will be comments in there from mods dealing with the issue that are interesting to read. Would be absolute idiocy for someone to overtly let the cat out of the bag. Simply put: it's information people should not be privy too unless it's necessary.

The only valid reason that could exist for it not having been done is that it is technically impossible to do it at present. Standard VBulletin templates wouldn't allow for such configuring - but there is a development team in place adding lots of bells and whistles to that basic architecture.

Spear

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The only valid reason that could exist for it not having been done is that it is technically impossible to do it at present. Standard VBulletin templates wouldn't allow for such configuring - but there is a development team in place adding lots of bells and whistles to that basic architecture.

But they're not going to make any changes of substance to the vbulletin frontend, as it's being moved away from.

Insect Overlord

The Reported Posts forum is a hugely valuable resource for new mods. It takes a while to get used to every little possible interpretation of forum charters and the site-wide posting guidelines. Seeing how a variety of experienced mods deal with that range of issues is very educational. The negatives of removing general access for mods would out-weigh the positives. And anyway, there's already a strictly enforced list of "rules" about how the forum can be used, passed down from Admin.

Pawwed Rig

I have reported moderators posts on at least 2 occasions in the past. I was under the impression that only the mods of the forum where the posts were reported have access here. However it seems that the mod whose post I have reported can actually see that I have reported the post?

Ok I will definitely think twice before I do that in future

Dav

Can someone give me an accurate link to whatever it is the OP is talking about? I can't see any mention of this based on the link he's given.

Insect Overlord

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have reported moderators posts on at least 2 occasions in the past. I was under the impression that only the mods of the forum where the posts were reported have access here. However it seems that the mod whose post I have reported can actually see that I have reported the post?

Ok I will definitely think twice before I do that in future

It really makes no difference at all whether they can see your report or not.

Pawwed Rig

Well it does as the process which I assumed was confidential is not confidential. We may aswell just have an on screen report post for everyone if 'really makes no difference'. Often I report posts that I think may be a little iffy and want the mods to be aware of it. It doesn't mean I want to broadcast that I am reporting a persons post as some can view that negatively.
What if the mod in question fires off a quick e-mail to his buddy in the other forum to clear the flag or whatever?

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Dav wrote: »

Can someone give me an accurate link to whatever it is the OP is talking about? I can't see any mention of this based on the link he's given.

Post @ 01.43. Why is it any of his business who's reporting what in the Soccer forum? How does he know how many posts get reported in a forum he doesn't moderate? The only way he would know is if he was snooping around reported posts when he had access to them as a mod. Which makes a mockery of the notion that Mods and non Mods are equal in fora they don't have responsibility for.

Makes me wonder too how many more are at it.

Delirium

Dav wrote: »

Can someone give me an accurate link to whatever it is the OP is talking about? I can't see any mention of this based on the link he's given.

I presume it's this post?

Dav

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Well it does as the process which I assumed was confidential is not confidential. We may aswell just have an on screen report post for everyone if 'really makes no difference'. Often I report posts that I think may be a little iffy and want the mods to be aware of it. It doesn't mean I want to broadcast that I am reporting a persons post as some can view that negatively.
What if the mod in question fires off a quick e-mail to his buddy in the other forum to clear the flag or whatever?

We've de-modded and site banned people for this before and will do so again if it happens again.

Pawwed Rig

Dav wrote: »

We've de-modded and site banned people for this before and will do so again if it happens again.

You may not be aware of it though. Also the mod might be miffed at having been reported and 'get back at you' in future.

I once had a mod berating me on thread (when I took an anti racism stance in AH) for not reporting a poster who had made a racial slur earlier in the thread. I had reported one of that mods posts though. The fact that he could see what I was and was not reporting makes his attitude on the thread slightly clearer.
He was at the same time giving the usual 'I am not a mod of this forum so just a normal user like you' response whereas he is not a normal user in that he had access to information not available to a normal user. At least we can finally put that argument to bed.

Dav

Any chance you could PM me the specifics of that incident Pawwed? I'd like to take a look.

I'm also looking at the other issue. Nuri made a pretty vague (and not very clever) comment, there's not really a lot in it especially since he's not a mod any more and no longer has access. He's not exactly calling anyone specific out, but I'll investigate further.

In case it's not clear, I take this *extremely* seriously. If people don't have faith in our reporting process then the site stops working. I'm hoping to change how it works when we get our re-design under way. I would personally prefer reported posts to be limited to only the forum they're reported in, but right now that's not feasible or technically workable.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Would a solution be to have 2 Report buttons.

(1) Report to Forum Mods.
(2) Report to Cat Mods.

Then if a user was concerned about reporting a mod and not being anonymous doing so then they could bypass the Mods and go higher instead. No idea if this is even possible in the boards technical matrix though!

LuckyLloyd

Dav: is search disabled in the Reported Posts forum?

Sad Professor

I really don't understand what the big deal is. If you are reporting a mod outside of their forum and you are concerned about confidentiality, just PM the mods of the forum. If you don't receive a response from the mods or have an issue with their handling of it, then PM a cmod. But if it's just a personal grievance unworthy of action, don't be surprised if they aren't very helpful.

A mod who genuinely is a nuisance outside of their forums shouldn't be a mod, simple as that. There are more important things for the devs to be working on than the reported post system, which as already said, is very helpful to new mods.

P. Breathnach

Sad Professor wrote: »

I really don't understand what the big deal is. If you are reporting a mod outside of their forum and you are concerned about confidentiality, just PM the mods of the forum....

A good and helpful suggestion. But many posters do not know that mods can see all reported posts, so it's probably a good thing that threads like this be created.

darced

This post has been deleted.

MugMugs

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why?

If you've done nothing wrong and don't intend to do anything wrong, then what's the problem?

Sad Professor

P. Breathnach wrote: »

A good and helpful suggestion. But many posters do not know that mods can see all reported posts, so it's probably a good thing that threads like this be created.

Does it make any difference if the reported mod sees it or not? What are they going to do about it?

And remember, they aren't the only ones who can see it. Admins and CMods can as well.

KERSPLAT!

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

As was said above, the alternative is to PM a Mod or CMod if you don't want to use the report function to report a Mod.

Pawwed Rig

Sad Professor wrote: »

Does it make any difference if the reported mod sees it or not? What are they going to do about it?

Various things really. Hold a grudge, infract you for the smallest breaches of charter in their own fora. E-mail their colleagues and highlight you as a troublemaker putting everything you write under more scrutiny, discredit your points in their own fora by using mod actions etc etc

MugMugs wrote: »

If you've done nothing wrong and don't intend to do anything wrong, then what's the problem?

This is such a cliche I am assuming it is a joke? Have you read 1984?

Dav: I will have to dig for it but will have a look this evening or tomorrow.

MugMugs

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

This is such a cliche I am assuming it is a joke? Have you read 1984?

This reeks of "The world is out to get me because I told tales" frankly.

There's processes in place to protect all users, mods or users in the event of disciplinary.

It's not difficult to prove that you're being victimised as a result of a reported post(s) if you feel that you are. There's processes in place to oversee this and provide protection.

I would really hope that doesn't happen Pawwed Rig

Just to say, and I don't know if it will make any difference to how ye feel about it, but mods are not allowed to post or comment on reported posts from outside their forums. If they do - they will be pulled up on it fairly swiftly by both the mods of the forum, and by admin.

I've genuinely never experienced a mod contacting me because their post was reported within my forums.

Larianne

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have reported moderators posts on at least 2 occasions in the past. I was under the impression that only the mods of the forum where the posts were reported have access here. However it seems that the mod whose post I have reported can actually see that I have reported the post?

Ok I will definitely think twice before I do that in future

What you could do if you fear a mod may see your reported post is to use PM and report them to other mods of the forum or cat mods, with a link to their post in the PM.

I've had to do that for a certain forum, where there is a likelihood (in my opinion) that mods (not necessarily of that forum) who are friends with posters would give them a heads up on the reported post. Of course, I have no proof of this, but I am not stupid either.

No system is perfect. But I wouldn't let that stop you from reporting posts.
Having the reported posts forum is a help to new mods or to gain imput from others when dealing with tricky situations.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

A good and helpful suggestion. But many posters do not know that mods can see all reported posts, so it's probably a good thing that threads like this be created.

In one way yes, but I think it will stop posters from reporting. Hard to get some posters to report in the first place!

MugMugs wrote: »

Why?

If you've done nothing wrong and don't intend to do anything wrong, then what's the problem?

The whole point of the reported post function is to allow for relatively anonymous reporting. I guess PP thinks that's somewhat taken away.

Sad Professor

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Various things really. Hold a grudge, infract you for the smallest breaches of charter in their own fora.

Then you follow the DRP and have the infractions/bans removed. If the Admins/Cmods come to the conclusion that the Mod has a personal grievance with you due to you reporting their posts (which they have a record of), then that's pretty serious.

E-mail their colleagues and highlight you as a troublemaker putting everything you write under more scrutiny, discredit your points in their own fora by using mod actions etc etc

Unless their "colleagues" are idiots, they will check your posting history and form their own conclusions.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Pawwed Rig

Sad Professor wrote: »

Then you follow the DRP and have the infractions/bans removed. If the Admins/Cmods come to the conclusion that the Mod has a personal grievance with you due to you reporting their posts (which they have a record of), then that's pretty serious.

Who needs that kind of hassle?

MugMugs

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yet, I've never seen an example of this nor has anybody actually provided one.

P. Breathnach

Sad Professor wrote: »

Does it make any difference if the reported mod sees it or not? ...

Not to me.

But I am sure it does to some people.

Dav

To answer an earlier question, the Reported Posts forum is searchable - it's too important a tool to all Mods, CMods and Admins to not let people search through it for previous instances of whatever they're currently investigating (although ModUtils 3 has much better record keeping than ModUtils 2 used to, so we're seeing slightly less of a need for that).

This is always how the reporting has worked folks. Emphasis on Work - it does. If you're now going to assume that moderators are going to hold some sort of grudge then you're not really showing any faith in a system that you once had no issue with. Like I said, we have de-modded people who have acted in the manner you're suggesting is going to happen to you if you report a post and so the reality is that it simply doesn't happen. If we look at the number of reported posts versus the number of incidents where this has cropped up, it's statistically irrelevant (I'd guess 0.001% if even that).

Contrary to popular belief, the mods of this site don't act as some sort of hive mind and don't spend any spare time keeping an eye out for stress in each other's forums whilst plotting the downfall of the members of the site I'm being somewhat tongue in cheek because the reported post functionality has worked brilliantly for so many years at this stage, there shouldn't be any sort of issue with it all of a sudden. People need to understand that this is a volunteer driven and staffed site - there are those of us here in the office to support the platform that the various communities are built on, but by and large, the site is self policing which is how we want it to be.

Myrddin

If people feel the need to report a post, they shouldn't second guess it if it that post is made by a moderator. I've reported mods posts in the past, its nothing personal, but if I feel a post has crossed the line then I'll report it no matter who made it. Once you're not abusing the 'report post' feature, & genuinely feel the post should be looked at, then you're doing your bit.

As Dav mentioned, any abuse of that system by a mod is a serious matter.

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Said without a hint of irony :rolleyes:

All you have done here is have a go at the op, why not comment on the subject at hand?
It's a very valid point.

I addressed it twice but you choose to ignore those posts

Nice name change btw, everyone seems to be changing identities these days

Faith

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Various things really. Hold a grudge, infract you for the smallest breaches of charter in their own fora. E-mail their colleagues and highlight you as a troublemaker putting everything you write under more scrutiny, discredit your points in their own fora by using mod actions etc etc

Two points:

1. Do you think anyone is that petty that they'll get so angry that their post was reported, that they'll take it out on the reporter in various passive aggressive ways? Anyone like that wouldn't survive long as a moderator. Forums have multiple moderators so that each moderator is also moderated. If I saw a co-mod acting like a dick, I'd call him/her on it.

2. The majority of moderators don't even use the RP forum. We get emails with the reports, and most of us action them through the email. The chances of a moderator even seeing that their post has been reported is pretty small. Some might scan the front page, but we get enough sitewide reports that the front page changes pretty quickly.

It's really not something to be concerned about. I'd actively encourage all users to report posts no matter who the poster. If a moderator is constantly causing trouble elsewhere, it's great to have their posts reported so that the admins have a record of that.

LuckyLloyd

Yeah, not buying what is on sale here tbh. Seems Dav et al have missed the point. It's fine saying 'any serious abuse is demod and site ban'. That's fair enough and I've no doubt that anyone stupid enough to try and abuse the facility in that fashion over the years have been rightly put to the sword.

However, if someone gets the modship of Plumbing and Heating (just an example off the top of my head, not insinuating any foul play on behalf of the surely noble mod (s) of Plumbing and Heating), then as a user across the rest of the vast expanse of boards they have a special and unfair privilege. Via a simple 30 second search of the Reported Posts forum, they can choose to see if any of their posts ever have been reported; who reported it; and why. If the moderators of that forum deemed the report unworthy of further action (as per the majority of reports) they still are aware of the complaint.

So, if you are in a thread and don't like a post by a regular user you can report it privately. However, if the post you have an issue with is by a moderator, you are unable to report it privately. Your report is easily available to the mod / poster in question.

As such, the report system in its current format is not fully private and equal. Saying:

- 'we know our report system is not fully private and equal but we are handstrung by technical limitations'

is totally fine.

- 'oh, so what, no big deal any major breaches are dealt with harshly and it has been like this forever you know?'

is, eh, not so fine.

wnolan1992

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's what DRP is for. If you feel a mod is being biased against you in a decision, then go to DRP. If they had no reason to warn/infract/ban you, then it'll be overturned.

If a Mod is continually being overruled in DRP because of bias, then I think it's fair to say they won't be a Mod for very long anyway.

It seems pretty obvious that people are not aware of this and without doubt it will and is being abused.

Mods are forbidden to use their privileges on the site outside of their own forums. If you come across a Mod abusing the Reported Posts feature, then report them to the CMods.