Using a tee or hitting off the ground?

Arsenium

Hello,

Since getting a lesson a few months ago, my ball striking with the irons has improved considerably. High shots drifting to the right have turned into gentle draws with a lower flights.

However, I dont seem to be able to get nearly as good a connection with the irons when I tee it up, on par 3's mainly.

After a bad shot today, into the water, I reloaded without the tee. Struck the ball perfectly onto the middle of the green.

So I'm pretty sure it's not mandatory to use a tee or I guess I could just tee it really low.
Anyone here not bother with a tee? Or has anyone had a similar issue?

The divots on the tee boxes on some par 3's would suggest the ball is teed extremely low or not on a tee at all.

ForeRight

If I hit a ball bad and need to reload I always seem to hit a good strike. Probably as you just hit it without thinking too much but I really don't know.

I do like to tee up slightly on a par 3 though.

Arsenium

ForeRight wrote: »

If I hit a ball bad and need to reload I always seem to hit a good strike. Probably as you just hit it without thinking too much but I really don't know.

I do like to tee up slightly on a par 3 though.

Yep that always seems to be the way for sure.

I find it annoying that I am hitting it well from the ground on par 4's and 5's, but when it comes to the par 3's, with the ball on a tee, I dont seem to strike it well at all. It's the opposite of what I would have expected :-)

When I see the pro's on TV hitting their tee shots on par 3's, I often wonder if they are using a tee at all, with the divots they take.

Dolph Starbeam

I always use a tee, though I tee it very low for the shorter irons. If I am using a 5, 4 or 3 iron I'd tee it a tiny bit higher. You don't want to tee it too high to where the ball is striking the top of the iron.

GreeBo

sounds like you have it teed up too high.
you want the ball just sitting above the level of the ground.
also make sure that you are still hitting down on it...

Senna

If you are confident with your irons, try scoop up a bit of ground with the club to make a natural tee, much nicer than a tee low into the ground.

Arsenium

GreeBo wrote: »

sounds like you have it teed up too high.
you want the ball just sitting above the level of the ground.
also make sure that you are still hitting down on it...

You may be right. I find it hard to tee it so low that the ball is basically just sitting nicely above the ground level. On winter mats, I never bother with a tee and just hit it from the mat and it's fine. It's hard to feel confident about striking down on a ball that is elevated off the ground, or at least it is for me.

DuckSlice

I can never understand people not using tees on a par 3, or whenever they hit irons! Your giving yourself a disadvantage, just tee it real low and it's perfect!! You never see a pro not using a tee!

Also course near me that insist on it and has a sign on all the par 3's!!

GreeBo

your improved ball striking probably means that you are now hitting down more on the ball.
If you have it teed up you will strike it high on the club face and "nothing" happens to the ball.
You can move the ball back, move it forward and hit up (can be useful on long irons for some people)
But basically I have the ball with the just the crown of the tee above ground, then your divot should start a little after the tee.

Wftablueboy

etxp wrote: »

I can never understand people not using tees on a par 3, or whenever they hit irons! Your giving yourself a disadvantage, just tee it real low and it's perfect!! You never see a pro not using a tee!

Also course near me that insist on it and has a sign on all the par 3's!!

I've often seen pro's not using a tee .... Laura Davis was one of the most successful players on the ladies tour and never used a tee ( she'd knock up a mound on the teeing area ) and she bombed the ball a mile.

DuckSlice

That's one! I watch golf every weekend and I never see anyone not using a tee!

Wichita Lineman

It's mandatory to use a tee in Moate GC anyway and anyone not using one should have a 2 shot penalty applied as it says on the signs on our Par 3 tee boxes. Tee boxes are hard enough to keep in good condition even with tees so the damage done increases if you dont use a tee.

GreeBo

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

It's mandatory to use a tee in Moate GC anyway and anyone not using one should have a 2 shot penalty applied as it says on the signs on our Par 3 tee boxes. Tee boxes are hard enough to keep in good condition even with tees so the damage done increases if you dont use a tee.

I dont see how the damage increases without a tee, I take the same divot either way.

However I will always use one, why would I not take a perfect lie everytime?

Myksyk

If you're playing well with your irons you'll be hitting down on the ball and taking some sort of divot regardless of whether you tee up slightly or not. However, I guess that most players hold a high-ish handicap and will hit up on the ball if teeing it up. I suppose such a local rule makes sense in this regard.

Wftablueboy

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

It's mandatory to use a tee in Moate GC anyway and anyone not using one should have a 2 shot penalty applied as it says on the signs on our Par 3 tee boxes. Tee boxes are hard enough to keep in good condition even with tees so the damage done increases if you dont use a tee.

I don't see why Moate GC should be making it mandatory to use a tee peg Andy , it's not mentioned in the R&A rules of golf that you must use one

DuckSlice

Wftablueboy wrote: »

I don't see why Moate GC should be making it mandatory to use a tee peg Andy , it's not mentioned in the R&A rules of golf that you must use one

they can just make it a local rule and you have to abide by it!

Wichita Lineman

Exactly, it's a local rule and must be observed. It's on signs and on our card - TEEING AREA, Tees must be used on all teeing grounds. penalty for breach of rule: 2shots.

My own opinion is that it must help to use a tee no matter how low it's down so it's a no brainer. I appreciate everyone is entitled to their opinion / preference I was just stating what the postition is in my club.

Wftablueboy

Just 2 little points considering most par 3's are normally 160 yards or less , roughly anything from a 7 iron to a sand wedge... When you go to a driving range do u tee your ball up when your practice your 8,9, p/w or s/w ??? I'd say most people practice hitting it off the deck , so why change when your on the course ?
As for the 2 shot penalty for not using a tee in Moate , I wonder what the reaction would be if someone had an awkward putt on the green and opted to chip the ball instead of putt and likely to cause as much damage as you would to the teeing area ??

Creasy_bear

Any chance you get to use a tee in golf, you should use it. It's a perfect lie ffs.

Only an idiot wouldn't use a tee.

con___manx1

i use a tee but tee it low as possible

DuckSlice

Wftablueboy wrote: »

Just 2 little points considering most par 3's are normally 160 yards or less , roughly anything from a 7 iron to a sand wedge... When you go to a driving range do u tee your ball up when your practice your 8,9, p/w or s/w ??? I'd say most people practice hitting it off the deck , so why change when your on the course ?

thats totally different, for starter the mats in a driving range are just way too forgiving, you could hit an inch behind the ball and still hit it nicely on the range! i just dont see how not teeing the ball up is better than teeing it up so its just touching the ground! when teeing it up, your reducing the risk of hitting ball before ground! surely thats got to be better than not teeing it up

TheDoc

I'll always use a tee, and never understand why someone wouldn't.

You'll generate more spin and a better ball strike. Distance might vary a little, but it promotes a better ball strike.

When I tee the ball up on a par 3, I move the ball a little different in my stance, close the club face a little. But have to say wouldn't even attempt to hit off the deck. Tried it for a few years alright "thinking" it was better for me, then realised I was being silly and at the end of the day making an excuse for a swing flaw.

Wftablueboy

etxp wrote: »

thats totally different, for starter the mats in a driving range are just way too forgiving, you could hit an inch behind the ball and still hit it nicely on the range! i just dont see how not teeing the ball up is better than teeing it up so its just touching the ground! when teeing it up, your reducing the risk of hitting ball before ground! surely thats got to be better than not teeing it up

I never advocated not teeing it up , I mentioned Laura Davis using a mound of soil , you don't have to use a tee peg ( except in Moate )

DuckSlice

you also have to use a tee peg in castlebar, last time i played there they had signs on each par 3 tee box

Wichita Lineman

There is no local rule about using wedges on the greens in Moate but I'm sure the amount of times it actually happens is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the time tee boxes are used

Even if you did use wedge on the green are you really likely to take a divot?????

Arsenium

Wftablueboy wrote: »

Just 2 little points considering most par 3's are normally 160 yards or less , roughly anything from a 7 iron to a sand wedge... When you go to a driving range do u tee your ball up when your practice your 8,9, p/w or s/w ??? I'd say most people practice hitting it off the deck , so why change when your on the course ?
As for the 2 shot penalty for not using a tee in Moate , I wonder what the reaction would be if someone had an awkward putt on the green and opted to chip the ball instead of putt and likely to cause as much damage as you would to the teeing area ??

This is a very good point. The practice ground at my club is off turf, not mats, and as you say, I would never even consider practicing hitting a mid to high iron off a tee.

I have come to the conclusion that I am obviously teeing the ball too high. I guess I need to tee it so that the tee is not visible under the ball?
So I basically have a perfect lie with the ball just sitting on top of the turf. And then just play as if it was from the fairway.

However, since you can place the ball on the tee box,assuming it is in good condition and you can give yourself a perfect lie, I dont see how it is ridiculous to consider not using a tee. Ok, if the tee box is in poor condition, bare and full of divots etc then it would be stupid to give up your advantage.

GreeBo

etxp wrote: »

thats totally different, for starter the mats in a driving range are just way too forgiving, you could hit an inch behind the ball and still hit it nicely on the range! i just dont see how not teeing the ball up is better than teeing it up so its just touching the ground! when teeing it up, your reducing the risk of hitting ball before ground! surely thats got to be better than not teeing it up

+1 on mats, unless you know what to watch out for they can be very misleading.

The bolded section, I assume you mean reducing hitting the ground before the ball?

TheDoc wrote: »

I'll always use a tee, and never understand why someone wouldn't.

You'll generate more spin and a better ball strike. Distance might vary a little, but it promotes a better ball strike.

When I tee the ball up on a par 3, I move the ball a little different in my stance, close the club face a little. But have to say wouldn't even attempt to hit off the deck. Tried it for a few years alright "thinking" it was better for me, then realised I was being silly and at the end of the day making an excuse for a swing flaw.

Why would you close the clubface?

DuckSlice

Yes! I wasn't quite awake when I was posting earlier

Wichita Lineman

Wftablueboy wrote: »

I never advocated not teeing it up , I mentioned Laura Davis using a mound of soil , you don't have to use a tee peg ( except in Moate )

I can guarantee you that Moate is not the only club to have this local rule.

GreeBo

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

I can guarantee you that Moate is not the only club to have this local rule.

Same rule in my club and several (most) others I have played at.

Wftablueboy

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

I can guarantee you that Moate is not the only club to have this local rule.

First time I've ever come across it Andy , I'm playing golf 25 years and have played most of the top courses and plenty of hen runs , never heard of a 2 shot pen for not using a tee

Wichita Lineman

Wftablueboy wrote: »

First time I've ever come across it Andy , I'm playing golf 25 years and have played most of the top courses and plenty of hen runs , never heard of a 2 shot pen for not using a tee

Well we are neither 'top club' or 'hen run' but are happily in the middle there Wft. I'm sure not every club has the same local rules and as a visitor unfortunately sometimes it's difficult to be aware of local rules if they are not posted clearly on course or card. Doesnt mean they werent there.

Wftablueboy

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

Well we are neither 'top club' or 'hen run' but are happily in the middle there Wft. I'm sure not every club has the same local rules and as a visitor unfortunately sometimes it's difficult to be aware of local rules if they are not posted clearly on course or card. Doesnt mean they werent there.

Sorry Andy I didn't mean to rattle your cage ;-) , I just checked out Moates web site and see your on the committee so fair play . Anyway if you could send me on a free four ball I 'll go and check how well the notices are displayed :-)

Wichita Lineman

Not sure I'd feel our tee boxes were safe Wtf (only joking). Funnily enough I do plan to have a free fourball on offer at some stage during the summer for the boardsie golfers so watch out for that whenever I get it organised you can put your name in the hat and you never know.

Dr_Colossus

Out of interest do clubs that have a local rule requiring the use of the tee peg on tee boxes also have a local rule requiring a player to drop off errant tee boxes following a wayward shot?
Recently played a practice match in Clontarf and one of the players hit an errant shot landing on an adjacent tee box in close proximity to the green. There was only mention of having to take a drop from incorrect greens on the score card so we presumed it was play as it lies on the incorrect tee box.

Wichita Lineman

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Out of interest do clubs that have a local rule requiring the use of the tee peg on tee boxes also have a local rule requiring a player to drop off errant tee boxes following a wayward shot?
Recently played a practice match in Clontarf and one of the players hit an errant shot landing on an adjacent tee box in close proximity to the green. There was only mention of having to take a drop from incorrect greens on the score card so we presumed it was play as it lies on the incorrect tee box.

Funnily enough it's an odd thing but in the process of 'discussing' this here I was just thinking that in fact we added a local rule about 2yrs ago that you play as it lies if on a tee box from another hole. It's on our card too. Mmmmm.........

Arsenium

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

Funnily enough it's an odd thing but in the process of 'discussing' this here I was just thinking that in fact we added a local rule about 2yrs ago that you play as it lies if on a tee box from another hole. It's on our card too. Mmmmm.........

Now then...there's something for the next committee meeting !! The plot thickens :-)

Wftablueboy

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

Funnily enough it's an odd thing but in the process of 'discussing' this here I was just thinking that in fact we added a local rule about 2yrs ago that you play as it lies if on a tee box from another hole. It's on our card too. Mmmmm.........

I LOVE IT. :-))

Russman

I think its whatever works for an individual, some are happier teeing it up, some not so much. Personally I almost always use a tee on par 3s but sometimes on a tight par 4 when I really want to squeeze it out there I'll just pick a slightly raised piece of turf and hit a fairway wood. Obviously never on a course that has the local rule that tees must be used

Wombatman

Don't use one myself. Why bring another variable into the equation when you hit most of your long irons off the deck. You should be able to hit it as well off the deck as off the tee. Teeing irons encourages scooping among high handicappers like myself and discourages hitting down on the ball.

Felexicon

Wombatman wrote: »

Don't use one myself. Why bring another variable into the equation when you hit most of your long irons off the deck. You should be able to hit it as well off the deck as off the tee. Teeing irons encourages scooping among high handicappers like myself and discourages hitting down on the ball.

Yeah. I have to say as a complete newbie to golf I find I hit my irons much better off the deck and get under the ball too much when using a tee.

GreeBo

Felexicon wrote: »

Yeah. I have to say as a complete newbie to golf I find I hit my irons much better off the deck and get under the ball too much when using a tee.

Wombatman wrote: »

Don't use one myself. Why bring another variable into the equation when you hit most of your long irons off the deck. You should be able to hit it as well off the deck as off the tee. Teeing irons encourages scooping among high handicappers like myself and discourages hitting down on the ball.

Tee it lower?

Teeing the ball off the ground (max 5mm or so) gives you some wiggle room if you are going to hit it fat. The fact that its off the ground means you have a better chance of hitting the ball first and, as Jack says, air has less resistance than dirt.

If its good enough for Jack, its good enough for me.

Wombatman

GreeBo wrote: »

Tee it lower?

Teeing the ball off the ground (max 5mm or so) gives you some wiggle room if you are going to hit it fat. The fact that its off the ground means you have a better chance of hitting the ball first and, as Jack says, air has less resistance than dirt.

If its good enough for Jack, its good enough for me.

I don’t understand this.

If I'm prone to hit the ball fat ( hitting the ground first under the ball) teeing it up will make this worse. It might make since if I’m prone to hit it thin.

I any case I needn’t worry about this. I just want to focus on hitting a pure iron shot as if the ball were on the fairway. Justifying the teeing because I think I I’m going to hit it fat or thin is crazy. If I have a tendency to do these things, I should fix them rather than rely on teeing.

Sometimes you will be hitting 8 or 9 irons off the tee. Compressing the ball off the turf and taking a divot is desirable. Teeing does not help this process as far as I can see. I know we see the pros doing it. Why? Homespun wisdom need not apply 

OilBeefHooked2

Wombatman wrote: »

I don’t understand this.

If I'm prone to hit the ball fat ( hitting the ground first under the ball) teeing it up will make this worse. It might make since if I’m prone to hit it thin.

I any case I needn’t worry about this. I just want to focus on hitting a pure iron shot as if the ball were on the fairway. Justifying the teeing because I think I I’m going to hit it fat or thin is crazy. If I have a tendency to do these things, I should fix them rather than rely on teeing.

Sometimes you will be hitting 8 or 9 irons off the tee. Compressing the ball off the turf and taking a divot is desirable. Teeing does not help this process as far as I can see. I know we see the pros doing it. Why? Homespun wisdom need not apply 

Not using a tee is akin to using a driver for putting, you can do it but it's nonsense and you're just fooling yourself, compressing the ball has very little to do with squeezing the ball against the turf, it has all to do with angle of attack and club head speed, most mid to high handicappers don't compress the ball because they have an ascending angle of attack and don't create enough club head speed, hence why they usually perform better when there is placing everywhere, as every shot is like having it teed up and they hit the sweet spot more often.
So if for no other reason than all the pros do it, then you should always take every advantage the game presents to you, 'cause it's difficult enough already.

GreeBo

Wombatman wrote: »

I don’t understand this.

If I'm prone to hit the ball fat ( hitting the ground first under the ball) teeing it up will make this worse. It might make since if I’m prone to hit it thin.

I any case I needn’t worry about this. I just want to focus on hitting a pure iron shot as if the ball were on the fairway. Justifying the teeing because I think I I’m going to hit it fat or thin is crazy. If I have a tendency to do these things, I should fix them rather than rely on teeing.

Sometimes you will be hitting 8 or 9 irons off the tee. Compressing the ball off the turf and taking a divot is desirable. Teeing does not help this process as far as I can see. I know we see the pros doing it. Why? Homespun wisdom need not apply 

Its easier to hit a pure shot if the ball is marginally off the ground though. If you are a little heavy you still hit the ball before you hit the ground and thus dont loose clubhead speed.

The ball is not compressed against the turf, it gets hit by a club which squeezes/compresses it, it then reforms. The ground plays no part in this.
Look at any slow mo shot, even with a descending blow the angle of the club face is positive, the ball is not being driven into the ground (the club is, after the ball)

realgolfgeek

GreeBo

realgolfgeek wrote: »

video

it would be helpful if you let us know *why* you posted that video...some comment or something so we can have a conversation about it?

Arsenium

GreeBo wrote: »

it would be helpful if you let us know *why* you posted that video...some comment or something so we can have a conversation about it?

:D I think it just perfectly bears out your point in your previous post. The ball is not compressed against the ground, the club goes into the ground post impact. I guess it's a visual / video way of agreeing with you :-)

It also shows where Tigers weight is at impact...and that his hands are ahead of the ball....and that the sun was shining, and that his shoes were clean.

A picture tells a thousand stories :P

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

it would be helpful if you let us know *why* you posted that video...some comment or something so we can have a conversation about it?

sorry, I thought it was obvious.
I posted it to show a perfect example of how a ball should be struck off a tee. Ball first, divot afterwards etc.

Felexicon

realgolfgeek wrote: »

sorry, I thought it was obvious.
I posted it to show a perfect example of how a ball should be struck off a tee. Ball first, divot afterwards etc.

It was obvious alright.

Also showed me that I need to move the ball forward in my stance as I think I'm striking the ball while the club head is still decending as opposed to at the bottom of my swing

slave1

realgolfgeek wrote: »

sorry, I thought it was obvious.
I posted it to show a perfect example of how a ball should be struck off a tee. Ball first, divot afterwards etc.

Wow, he really makes contact with the top portion of the club face, interesting