EU considers phasing out 1c and 2c coins

antoobrien

Scofflaw wrote: »

the British penny is very nearly as useless as the 1c at this stage.

I dunno about that Scofflaw, I was in England a few times over the past year and I get far more 1p & 2p coins in change than we get 1c & 2c coins here. It came to the point that over 2 trips I had about £2 in 1p & 2p coins (and about £20 in other coins).

Scofflaw

antoobrien wrote: »

I dunno about that Scofflaw, I was in England a few times over the past year and I get far more 1p & 2p coins in change than we get 1c & 2c coins here. It came to the point that over 2 trips I had about £2 in 1p & 2p coins (and about £20 in other coins).

It's a hard one to definitively prove either way - I guess what I'd point to in defence of the claim is that (a) the UK changed over to cheaper pennies quite a while ago, and that (b) there's very little you can buy for a penny.

The former can be explained by higher copper values, but the latter would seem to suggest that a habit of pricing things so that you get more pennies in change is just that, a habit.

I would also point to the fact that it has been an occasionally live debate in the UK for a while - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6589171.stm, for example - while as far as I know this is the first time it's come up here.

cordially,
Scofflaw

antoobrien

Scofflaw wrote: »

It's a hard one to definitively prove either way - I guess what I'd point to in defence of the claim is that (a) the UK changed over to cheaper pennies quite a while ago, and that (b) there's very little you can buy for a penny.

While the cost relative to value is a concern, I don't think the idea that "there's very little you can buy for a" coin/note has anything to do with the utility of that coin/note. If that's the case we can consider discarding coins below 20c as there's not a whole lot that can be bought for less than 20c.

Scofflaw

antoobrien wrote: »

While the cost relative to value is a concern, I don't think the idea that "there's very little you can buy for a" coin/note has anything to do with the utility of that coin/note. If that's the case we can consider discarding coins below 20c as there's not a whole lot that can be bought for less than 20c.

Funnily enough, I bought €4.20's worth of things late last night, and was given €16 in change from a €20. When (foolishly, perhaps) I queried it, I was told that the shop - all night Centra - rounds up that way as standard practice, which I admit I found odd.

But, leaving aside the anecdotal, if one rejects any meaning to a utility argument for or against the penny/cent, one what basis could one actually make the decision? Sentiment?

cordially,
Scofflaw

antoobrien

Scofflaw wrote: »

Funnily enough, I bought €4.20's worth of things late last night, and was given €16 in change from a €20. When (foolishly, perhaps) I queried it, I was told that the shop - all night Centra - rounds up that way as standard practice, which I admit I found odd.

First I've ever heard of anything that large happening.

Scofflaw wrote: »

But, leaving aside the anecdotal, if one rejects any meaning to a utility argument for or against the penny/cent, one what basis could one actually make the decision? Sentiment?

The only meaningful way of measuring it I can think of is the reuse of a coin or note. One of the biggest problems I think the ECB has is that the 1c &2c coins are not being reused but are left sitting in jars.

Scofflaw

antoobrien wrote: »

First I've ever heard of anything that large happening.

It surprised me so much I argued until I wound up with 80c...

antoobrien wrote: »

The only meaningful way of measuring it I can think of is the reuse of a coin or note. One of the biggest problems I think the ECB has is that the 1c &2c coins are not being reused but are left sitting in jars.

In that case, the penny is definitely in trouble - something like 6.5 billion of them have dropped out of circulation:

More than 10 billion of them are currently thought to be in circulation according to the Royal Mint.

Lost money

But that figure does not tell the whole story for since Britain went decimal in February 1971, more than half as many again have actually been produced, and truth be told, nobody quite knows where they have gone.

"The coins estimated to be in circulation, compared to the total number of 1p coins issued since it was introduced 36 years ago, suggests that over 6,500 million are no longer in general circulation," said a spokesman for the Royal Mint.

So, 6.5 billion out of 16.5 billion - a 40% loss. And according to other surveys, about 1 in 3 younger people actually toss them in the bin rather than carry them.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Gott

Nody wrote: »

Nope, they would still charge .99 (and then round it up/down depending on what the total ends up if needed).

Seconded. Canada recently scrapped their penny and have started rounding up or down to the nearest 5 while maintaining prices like $19.99.

It's something America should look at too considering it costs them 1.8c to manufacture a 1c coin but God forbid someone suggest getting rid of old Honest Abe from the coinage.

ardmacha

So, 6.5 billion out of 16.5 billion - a 40% loss. And according to other surveys, about 1 in 3 younger people actually toss them in the bin rather than carry them..

Surely some sort of drive in schools etc to collect these little coins would round up a lot of them. Say the government offered to match any money collected in 1c coins, it might not save money but would help schools.

Seconded. Canada recently scrapped their penny and have started rounding up or down to the nearest 5 while maintaining prices like $19.99.

It's something America should look at too considering it costs them 1.8c to manufacture a 1c coin but God forbid someone suggest getting rid of old Honest Abe from the coinage.

The US and Canada are particularly bizarre as they add on strange tax rates and create prices needing small coins even where the base price is pretty straightforward.

maryishere

the euro was badly designed....silly having a currency where 100th , 50th and 20th of the denomination are worthless.

Scofflaw

maryishere wrote: »

the euro was badly designed....silly having a currency where 100th , 50th and 20th of the denomination are worthless.

It's a common problem - read the thread.

regards,
Scofflaw

[Jackass]

Actually would be a good thing to round up prices and get rid of the 1 and 2 cent coins. Might get a bit of extra cash flowing / spending when tallied up over the whole union, could be a substantial amount of extra spending, which is whats needed.

Also, the 1 and 2 cent coins are entirely useless, I would very much like to see the back of them.

Finally, a lot of the big chains who charge 0.99 for something would more than likely reduce those prices to 0.95, 19.95, 99.95 etc. as the whole point is not to break the 20.00 mark, or 100.00 or whatever the amount is, for the whole psychological reason that it's done in the first place.

hfallada

Has anyone calculated the amount of time wasted by staff getting the 1 or 2 cent coins for the customers? If you are in Lidl with people only buying a few items sometimes the cashiers spends more time giving out the tiny change rather than scanning items

SPDUB

hfallada wrote: »

Has anyone calculated the amount of time wasted by staff getting the 1 or 2 cent coins for the customers? If you are in Lidl with people only buying a few items sometimes the cashiers spends more time giving out the tiny change rather than scanning items

I've found they waste far more time with Debt Cards ( waiting for it to be authorized , getting receipts signed ) in Lidl than any amount of cash to be given out .

paul71

Alun wrote: »

The Netherlands didn't, nothing smaller than 5 cents.

True, but on the outer side I remember France still having centimes in the mid 90s. The 1 centime coin was still in circulation and was still legal tender but was actually very rare, I only ever saw 1. Its value was about .1 of 1 euro cent.

bbsrs

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Bring a bunch to tesco and dump them in the self service till when you're buying something. You'll be rid of them in no time.

They charge 10% by the way so only put in the ones you're too last to count , take out the big ones.

hognef

[Jackass] wrote: »

Finally, a lot of the big chains who charge 0.99 for something would more than likely reduce those prices to 0.95, 19.95, 99.95 etc. as the whole point is not to break the 20.00 mark, or 100.00 or whatever the amount is, for the whole psychological reason that it's done in the first place.

There'd be no need to change to .95 pricing instead of .99, as the whole point is to give the illusion of not breaking the 20/100/whatever mark.

Remember also that 5 items @ 0.99 would total 4.95, which bags the shop 20 cent more than 5 items @ 0.95 (4.75).

[Jackass]

True, but what I meant was that major chains would more than likely round down rather than up, as supposing the 1 and 2 cent coins we no longer circulated, they would have to change the price from 99 cent as everything would need to be divisible by 5 cent, so a good currently priced at 1.99 would have to either become 1.95 or 2 euro for example.

hognef

[Jackass] wrote: »

True, but what I meant was that major chains would more than likely round down rather than up, as supposing the 1 and 2 cent coins we no longer circulated, they would have to change the price from 99 cent as everything would need to be divisible by 5 cent, so a good currently priced at 1.99 would have to either become 1.95 or 2 euro for example.

Maybe, but they'll be even more likely to keep the prices the way they are today. Prices don't need to change, as they don't need to be divisible by 5 cent.

There are plenty of examples of unit prices not divisible by the smallest denomination in Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, etc., some even here in Ireland: The price of petrol and diesel generally contains a fractional cent component, i.e. 155.9 cent or 149.5 cent per litre.

Senecio

[Jackass] wrote: »

True, but what I meant was that major chains would more than likely round down rather than up, as supposing the 1 and 2 cent coins we no longer circulated, they would have to change the price from 99 cent as everything would need to be divisible by 5 cent, so a good currently priced at 1.99 would have to either become 1.95 or 2 euro for example.

Individual prices do not change, it is only the final bill at the register that is rounded up or down.

We removed them in Australia back in the early 90's and some retail chains advertised that would round every final bill down. Within 6 months everyone forgot about it and we all moved on with our lives, neither richer nor poorer.

We just had lighter, less bulky wallets that weren't full of worthless copper. The sooner they are the better.

the_monkey

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