Full circling of roundabouts

Speak Now

Hey lads just a quick question regarding a roundabout.

2 lanes going into the roundabout, 1 lane on all 3 exits.

Right hand lane is marked for right turn only.

There's generally a queue in the left hand lane for those taking first and second exits.

I notice lots of drivers take the right hand lane and drive around the roundabout without taking an exit and then take their original second exit (Now their 6th i guess).

Is it correct, incorrect or just bad etiquette.
I would have thought that it adds to the queuing for the rest of us.

whomitconcerns

Cant say Id be bothered doing a lap of a roundabout to avoid a queue....just my take would be bad practice...nothing incorrect about it afaik though.

sebastianlieken

It's very bad etiquette.

It's basically skipping the que.

People are just alot more rude and arrogant when they're in a car - these people wouldn't likley skip a que in say a shop; put a person in a big metal cage and watch them become assholes.

corktina

it's bad form and not cricket. I often do it

mitosis

If the right lane is right turn only, that is turn right! It is patently wrong and illegal not to do so.

biko

Bad etiquette but nothing wrong per se, besides pissing everyone else off.

mitosis

mitosis wrote: »

If the right lane is right turn only, that is turn right! It is patently wrong and illegal not to do so.

What law says it's illegal to do what OP described?

Technically you are going right, just taking a later exit. A right arrow means you must go around the roundabout, and not exit on first/second exit (generally).

AugustusMinimus

This happens a lot at the roundabout in Mallow for the N20 - N72 intersection.

People driving north on the N20 and going left or straight ahead should use the left hand lane. Those turning right, should use the right hand lane.

So many people will do as the OP said and go all the way around the roundabout.

Personally, if there are arrows on the lanes entering a roundabout, then it should be illegal to go all the way around. In Mallow, it clear states that the right hand lane is to take the right hand exit. Anything else and then you are not following the road markings.

galwaycyclist

Deleted User wrote: »

What law says it's illegal to do what OP described?

Technically you are going right, just taking a later exit. A right arrow means you must go around the roundabout, and not exit on first/second exit (generally).

As far as I know the only specific regulation for a roundabout is that you turn left to get onto it.

Once you have possession of the junction I presume its first on, first served.

AugustusMinimus

Deleted User wrote: »

What law says it's illegal to do what OP described?

Technically you are going right, just taking a later exit. A right arrow means you must go around the roundabout, and not exit on first/second exit (generally).

This junction clearly has a right pointing arrow and it says "Town Centre".

By not going right on the N72, you are breaking the law as you are not following what the road markings are indicating.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.137225,-8.653681&spn=0.000007,0.003449&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.13734,-8.654688&panoid=NKm60BNCAq5lQUigHXVZeA&cbp=12,14.96,,0,25.05

Speak Now

Thanks for the replies lads, I thought bad etiquette would be the extent of it alright.

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This junction clearly has a right pointing arrow and it says "Town Centre".

By not going right on the N72, you are breaking the law as you are not following what the road markings are indicating.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.137225,-8.653681&spn=0.000007,0.003449&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.13734,-8.654688&panoid=NKm60BNCAq5lQUigHXVZeA&cbp=12,14.96,,0,25.05

In that situation yeah, you may be doing something illegal, however, in the situation OP described (and what I was replying to) there is nothing wrong if's its just a right arrow.

There is no point to that roundabout if you can only take one exit from the "Town Centre" lane. Would it be considered it illegal if I went all the way around and exited exit 4 (ie go back in direction I came)?

Grandpa Hassan

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This junction clearly has a right pointing arrow and it says "Town Centre".

By not going right on the N72, you are breaking the law as you are not following what the road markings are indicating.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.137225,-8.653681&spn=0.000007,0.003449&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.13734,-8.654688&panoid=NKm60BNCAq5lQUigHXVZeA&cbp=12,14.96,,0,25.05

Arrows in the road do not equal law!

failure to follow them coule be dangerous driving if, for example, you cut someone up in the process. But none of what the OP describes is dangerous!

What you're saying is that it is illegal to go all the way round a roundabout and back the way you've come.

Just bad etiquette, OP. And I do it all the time!

bazz26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc

Supergurrier

Its only acceptable if they gleefully scream wheeeeeeeeee while going around

Max Power1

Thats a good plan OP

Thanks for the idea I shall do this more often, especially seeing as it is not against the ROTR/Law

Joe 90

Supergurrier wrote: »

Its only acceptable if they gleefully scream wheeeeeeeeee while going around

While on opposite lock with smoke coming from the tyres.:)

Dartz

Put this on the CD player and keep going!

Twirling, Twirling.

Then puking.

Anjobe

Max Power1 wrote: »

Thats a good plan OP

Thanks for the idea I shall do this more often, especially seeing as it is not against the ROTR/Law

From the ROTR on roundabouts:

"You must obey any road markings on the lanes and/or other instructions to show what lane to use if you intend to take a particular exit from the roundabout"

So, the OP described a scenario in which the car entering the roundabout did not obey the lane markings, and was therefore also not obeying the ROTR.

In the UK highway code the terms must/must not indicate a legal requirement, for which you can be fined and/or given penalty points, not sure that's the case here though.

Anjobe

Anjobe wrote: »

From the ROTR on roundabouts:

"You must obey any road markings on the lanes and/or other instructions to show what lane to use if you intend to take a particular exit from the roundabout"

So, the OP described a scenario in which the car entering the roundabout did not obey the lane markings, and was therefore also not obeying the ROTR.

In the UK highway code the terms must/must not indicate a legal requirement, for which you can be fined and/or given penalty points, not sure that's the case here though.

1. The ROTR are not law!

2. You are going right, you are just continuing around a roundabout. There is nothing unlawful with doing what OP described.

Max Power1

Anjobe wrote: »

From the ROTR on roundabouts:

"You must obey any road markings on the lanes and/or other instructions to show what lane to use if you intend to take a particular exit from the roundabout"

So, the OP described a scenario in which the car entering the roundabout did not obey the lane markings, and was therefore also not obeying the ROTR.

In the UK highway code the terms must/must not indicate a legal requirement, for which you can be fined and/or given penalty points, not sure that's the case here though.

Can't obey the ROTR they have no basis in law, they are just one person's interpretation of the relevent RTA, which do have basis in statute.

I am going right, as mentioned, hence I am in the correct lane

jimgoose

Shocking bad form, unkosher, not cricket and indicative of the sort of mind that will probably do porridge for tax evasion at some stage. I'll be trying this, and I'm only sorry I didn't think of it. Personally I'd consider it a road-going equivalent of tax avoidance, as opposed to tax evasion.

b318isp

This happens on the N2 exit for Dunboyne heading towards Dunshaughlin from time to time. There are two main reasons:

- A line of eejits in the left-hand lane taking the 3rd exit (right-hand side, past 12 o'clock position) preventing those in the right (and correct) lane from moving back to the left as they travel around the roundabout.
- A backlog causing a jam back onto the roundabout bringing the left hand lane to a standstill

In this case, I stay in the right-hand lane to the next roundabout, and then do a full loop. Although it is not ideal, it is a legal/safe manoeuvre, does not block the roundabout (right lane), avoids forcing your way into a busy left lane and allows other road users to move independent of the blocked lanes. I can understand that it appears frustrating to those stopped; I guess its the lesser of two evils.

Tea 1000

The biggest problem with this method of selfishness, which the selfish individuals obviously don't consider, is that it compounds the traffic problem. For everyone who skips the queue like this, the rest have to wait while they exit, as now that they're on the roundabout the queue has to wait for them to exit, making the queue longer.
So it's worse than queue skipping in the bank or for concert tickets etc.

lway

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This happens a lot at the roundabout in Mallow for the N20 - N72 intersection.

People driving north on the N20 and going left or straight ahead should use the left hand lane. Those turning right, should use the right hand lane.

So many people will do as the OP said and go all the way around the roundabout.

Personally, if there are arrows on the lanes entering a roundabout, then it should be illegal to go all the way around. In Mallow, it clear states that the right hand lane is to take the right hand exit. Anything else and then you are not following the road markings.

Yup, this is one of my peeves when heading up to Galway from Cork which I used to do most weekends. What really took the biscuit was the bank holiday weekend when I was heading up after work on a Friday and managed to pass an Articulated Lorry at one point only for him to skip the whole line of cars queueing patiently and go all the way around the roundabout and head straight on. :mad:

Stuck behind him and a line of other cars until near Limerick. :mad:

idle

Know someone was prosecuted for doing it in mallow a few years ago.
Can't remember if it was for careless/dangerous driving but remember reading the case in the paper.

Max Power1

idle wrote: »

Know someone was prosecuted for doing it in mallow a few years ago.
Can't remember if it was for careless/dangerous driving but remember reading the case in the paper.

Link or it never happened

Cant see what would bring about a prosecution here.

idle

Remember reading it and thinking I won't be doing that again.
Don't believe me if you don't want to

Padraig Mor

Can't believe the number of people who think it's 'bad form' when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I do it all the time at the Dunkettle interchange, although it's admittedly a much bigger roundabout than say Mallow where I can see how problems would arise. Now, going all the way up the right hand lane and cutting into the left lane at the end (like so many drivers), THAT'S bad form.

dh0011

you ar perfectly entitled to do laps of a roundabout including the one in mallow. I often do.

jimgoose

dh0011 wrote: »

you ar perfectly entitled to do laps of a roundabout including the one in mallow. I often do.

I confess to powersliding an OW-01 in the wet around a roundabout on the Dublin Road in Limerick in 1997. I was young then!

Tea 1000

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Can't believe the number of people who think it's 'bad form' when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I do it all the time at the Dunkettle interchange, although it's admittedly a much bigger roundabout than say Mallow where I can see how problems would arise. Now, going all the way up the right hand lane and cutting into the left lane at the end (like so many drivers), THAT'S bad form.

Skipping the queue and adding to tailbacks is bad form. Going left from the right lane is bad driving.

Deise Vu

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The biggest problem with this method of selfishness, which the selfish individuals obviously don't consider, is that it compounds the traffic problem. For everyone who skips the queue like this, the rest have to wait while they exit, as now that they're on the roundabout the queue has to wait for them to exit, making the queue longer.
So it's worse than queue skipping in the bank or for concert tickets etc.

This is absolutely correct. In Waterford it was a particular problem at the Hospital roundabout. In a stroke of genius, that they are never given credit for, the City Council made the right hand lane Dunmore Road into City Centre for straight-through traffic and left lane MUST take a left turn only. Hey presto! Instant end to an awful bottleneck caused by selfish pricks whose time is more important than the rest of us.

The downside is the move was so successful that nearly every roundabout in Waterford has at least one direction where you take the right lane to go straight through. You would not believe how many drivers ignore the many warnings and the road markings and try to drive out the single exit in the left lane in tandem with someone obeying the signs. If there's nothing on the telly you can sit on the wall at the Hospital and just laugh at the carnage. For best results go when the traffic is relatively quiet and travelling at speed.

Grandpa Hassan

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Skipping the queue and adding to tailbacks is bad form. Going left from the right lane is bad driving.

How is the tailback longer when your car is not in it? Yes, you slow down the queue by a car as you are coming off the roundabout, but the queue is one car shorter anyway....

And I really don't get how it is any worse than going all the way round and back where you have come from, which I don't think anyone has a problem with. Indeed it is necessary on many occasions when you can't turn right onto a dual carriageway so have to head left to the nearest roundabout and come back on yourself

Tea 1000

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

How is the tailback longer when your car is not in it? Yes, you slow down the queue by a car as you are coming off the roundabout, but the queue is one car shorter anyway....

Simple traffic physics. If there is nothing on the roundabout coming legitimately from any other exit to the one the queue is going to, then everyone on approach doesn't even need to stop, so the traffic keeps rolling forward. One car comes along and causes the top car in the queue to stop, and you get the snake of stopping effect that magnifies through the traffic. That rectifies itself after a bit of time, but you keep adding plebs full of self-importance and unable to see the bigger picture, and you magnify the congestion problem of the queue many times.
It's how all traffic works. It's not a simple take one car from here and place it somewhere else.
This is a fundamental problem on our roads in general. People don't/can't/refuse to understand the big picture of traffic and the general flow of it. They can't see how they f**k up the flow of traffic on a roundabout. They can't see how the car they're approaching on a motorway isn't going to speed up suddenly, they wait until they get to it then brake hard then bully out to overtake - when a simple well timed merge would have been seamless. Same story with merging onto motorways, dealing with cyclists, pedestrians, tractors, everything.
Cop ta f**k on people!!
/Rant

Deise Vu

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

How is the tailback longer when your car is not in it? Yes, you slow down the queue by a car as you are coming off the roundabout, but the queue is one car shorter anyway....

You are obviously not thinking that one through very clearly. If you have 10 cars in a line and no oncoming traffic and all are turning left or going straight through they can enter the roundabout in a contiuous line and proceed without stopping. If car number 10 is going left (or even straight though) and he decides his time is more valuable than the other 9 fuddy-duddys who are slowing him down he can accelerate in the right lane, overtaking most of the others do a 270 degree circuit exiting left. This will mean 4 or 5 cars having to stop and start again and we are all familaiar with the delays that happen when several cars are in a line (such as leaving traffic lights).

Now multiply the number of cars by hundreds and you can imagine the delays that caused.You are also blocking oncoming traffic as you pass the 180 degree point.

hi5

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Skipping the queue and adding to tailbacks is bad form. Going left from the right lane is bad driving.

When you're turning right on a 'two lane in one lane out' roundabout, you need to go left from the right lane anyway.

djimi

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Skipping the queue and adding to tailbacks is bad form. Going left from the right lane is bad driving.

Youre not turning left from the right hand lane. Its no different to someone who enters the roundabout at the 12oc exit taking what would be the 9oc exit to the people in the long queue. At worst its cheeky, but I dont see how its breaking any laws, nor do I see how its bad driving.

who_me

I see this happen often on the way through Mallow for big Munster games (thus, lots of traffic). There's always a long queue through the roundabout, and always a few who skip it by using the wrong lane, then going around.

On a couple of occasions, it's lead to a bit of aggro, where no one lets the car going around cut back in (on the roundabout) to use the correct exit and he/she ends up playing silly buggers, driving side-by-side in one lane, or even up on the footpath/island on occasions. Daft.

Speak Now

Deise Vu wrote: »

This is absolutely correct. In Waterford it was a particular problem at the Hospital roundabout. In a stroke of genius, that they are never given credit for, the City Council made the right hand lane Dunmore Road into City Centre for straight-through traffic and left lane MUST take a left turn only. Hey presto! Instant end to an awful bottleneck caused by selfish pricks whose time is more important than the rest of us.

The downside is the move was so successful that nearly every roundabout in Waterford has at least one direction where you take the right lane to go straight through. You would not believe how many drivers ignore the many warnings and the road markings and try to drive out the single exit in the left lane in tandem with someone obeying the signs. If there's nothing on the telly you can sit on the wall at the Hospital and just laugh at the carnage. For best results go when the traffic is relatively quiet and travelling at speed.

The roundabout i was talking about is only up the road. The one where the dual carriage way ends coming to Williamstown.

ardmacha

but I dont see how its breaking any laws, nor do I see how its bad driving.

the breaking the law is debatable. It is clearly bad driving as it is increasing the queue.

ShaunieVW

Tbh Id do it, Maybe its selfish but I wont spend ages in a queqe just to be nice.

milltown

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This junction clearly has a right pointing arrow and it says "Town Centre".

By not going right on the N72, you are breaking the law as you are not following what the road markings are indicating.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.137225,-8.653681&spn=0.000007,0.003449&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.13734,-8.654688&panoid=NKm60BNCAq5lQUigHXVZeA&cbp=12,14.96,,0,25.05

So if I don't go into town from the right lane I can expect to be done for it?
What if I forgot my bags and had to go back home for them? Do I have to go all the way to town first?

FWIW, before the N4/M50 interchange was upgraded, the traffic corps would regularly park themselves on the roundabout watching for people coming from Lucan direction going right around the roundabout to skip the queue of people heading north on the M50. I still don't know what you could be done for or why you couldn't just claim you forgot you had to go north and went south out of habit before realising?

Maybe the strategy was just to delay these people long enough with a friendly chat that any time saving was negated.

wonski

Going around roundabout is perfectly legal - how many types of arrows would we need to make it perfectly legal, as some of you think right arrow means right only???
There are places where no right turn was imposed, as there is roundabout close enough to accomodate for this traffic. If anyone knows that Cinema in Naas, and hotel on Naas Road - you know what i mean i hope;)

wonski

mitosis wrote: »

If the right lane is right turn only, that is turn right! It is patently wrong and illegal not to do so.

Yeah, right?
What is the definition of right turn on roundabout?
What if the right turn is not exactly 90 degrees? (or if the arrow is not pointing exactly where your exit is?)

ardle1

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This happens a lot at the roundabout in Mallow for the N20 - N72 intersection.

People driving north on the N20 and going left or straight ahead should use the left hand lane. Those turning right, should use the right hand lane.

So many people will do as the OP said and go all the way around the roundabout.

Personally, if there are arrows on the lanes entering a roundabout, then it should be illegal to go all the way around. In Mallow, it clear states that the right hand lane is to take the right hand exit. Anything else and then you are not following the road markings.

Yeah,, but when you pass the next or following exit,,,
you are now in the proper lane!!
so dont think any laws are being broken.
Can look a bit 'arseholy' when someone speeds past 10 cars waiting.

corktina

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This happens a lot at the roundabout in Mallow for the N20 - N72 intersection.

People driving north on the N20 and going left or straight ahead should use the left hand lane. Those turning right, should use the right hand lane.

So many people will do as the OP said and go all the way around the roundabout.

Personally, if there are arrows on the lanes entering a roundabout, then it should be illegal to go all the way around. In Mallow, it clear states that the right hand lane is to take the right hand exit. Anything else and then you are not following the road markings.

basically that roundabout is marked out in a daft way. Heading North, most traffic is going straight on or left and yet they are both in the same lane, with a nice empty lane for the few turning right. The straight-on-ers block the left turners..... Make the left lane left turn and the right lane all other exits and the problem is solved.

(Same heading south, 95%+ of traffic is going straight on or right and yet they are all forced into the right lane with ,again the traffic for the N72 blocked by that on the N8)


you would not have a hazardous situation if BOTH lanes were for straight on as there are two lanes at the exit.

the markings before the roundabout have no impact on traffic ON the roundabout ,in my view you are not breaking any law if you go right round it.

Tea 1000

hi5 wrote: »

When you're turning right on a 'two lane in one lane out' roundabout, you need to go left from the right lane anyway.

Yes, but that's not what I meant.

djimi wrote: »

Youre not turning left from the right hand lane. Its no different to someone who enters the roundabout at the 12oc exit taking what would be the 9oc exit to the people in the long queue. At worst its cheeky, but I dont see how its breaking any laws, nor do I see how its bad driving.

I meant approaching in a right hand lane, then taking the first exit off the roundabout without going around it. Used to happen in Limerick at a roundabout that's no longer there.

rocky

At the same time, what if you're entering in the right only lane but change your mind and go straight through, taking off very quickly and not inconveniencing other cars in the left lane that are a bit slower? You decrease the potential queue, everyone happy... except the guards, if they see you...

Deise Vu

rocky wrote: »

At the same time, what if you're entering in the right only lane but change your mind and go straight through, taking off very quickly and not inconveniencing other cars in the left lane that are a bit slower? You decrease the potential queue, everyone happy... except the guards, if they see you...

Changing your mind about the direction you are going in the space of 20 metres, overtaking on a roundabout, assuming other drivers will not be accelerating as recklessly as you... sure, what could go wrong?

Edit: PS: If you are ever in Waterford, traffic planners are very fluid about which lane you must use (like the Cork planners love roundabouts into another roundabout and Dublin loves 'defeating-the-whole-purpose-of bloody-roundabouts' traffic lights combined with roundabouts). The absolute apex of the Waterford planners occasional bursts of insanity is the roundabout outside the train station. It is dual-carriageway on and off and there are quirks such as being able to turn left from the right lane coming from the Rosslare direction and, from South Kilkenny the absolutely bananas being able to turn right from the left lane. So while you are 'changing your mind' about turning right and accelerating past a car on your left, he might be legally turning right into you.

rocky

Deise Vu wrote: »

Changing your mind about the direction you are going in the space of 20 metres, overtaking on a roundabout, assuming other drivers will not be accelerating as recklessly as you... sure, what could go wrong?

Ha! Accelerating hard is reckless now? If they do, have a circle of the roundabout...