God bless Angus cattle

locky76

First four calves on the ground in the past two days, all flying it and two from heifers. God bless the angus i haven't seen any of them calving yet...
(Hopefully this post doesn't jinx it:rolleyes:, i'll keep ye posted)
On a broader note do people think that angus are the way to go for a suckler to beef enterprise with ease of calving and ability to put on cheap weight off grass/ small amount of meal to finish?

blue5000

Have to agree with you OP, no de-horning either. You are right though, to get the most out of them you have to finish them.

Milton09

locky76 wrote: »

On a broader note do people think that angus are the way to go for a suckler to beef enterprise with ease of calving and ability to put on cheap weight off grass/ small amount of meal to finish?

Yes - I'm seriously considering it, have heavy mature SI cows now that are relatively hard to feed and going out of shed at end of week and will have the place ploughed in no time.

+1 on the calving, I watched an LM heifer calve a AA calf on the camera last week, out no problems, was sucking in 15 mins and unbelievibly galloping around the pin in less than 50 mins - I couldnt believe my eyes.

Alibaba

Absolutely love the Angus. Easy to calve , easy to feed , would live under a bush ! Plus lovely quiet cattle.

3 the square

locky76 wrote: »

First four calves on the ground in the past two days, all flying it and two from heifers. God bless the angus i haven't seen any of them calving yet...
(Hopefully this post doesn't jinx it:rolleyes:, i'll keep ye posted)
On a broader note do people think that angus are the way to go for a suckler to beef enterprise with ease of calving and ability to put on cheap weight off grass/ small amount of meal to finish?

what about the hereford, got bull last year just to bull the late cavers only have 3 bulls and one heifer calf off him so far had to use the jack on all of em but all cows and calves grand . should i start getting worried that he more of bull for suckler cows and put him up d ramp? or is it too early to say yet????

Manoffeeling

Back to the old style of farming. A lot to be said for it.

agriman27

Yeah I am starting to think a tradional breed suckler herd could be the way to go too. Input costs would be lower and labour input reduced. Cow weights would also be lower and therefore more hope of getting cows out earlier on our heavy wet soil. People argue that smaller cattle and carcase weights would be to much in the difference to continental cattle but maybe an increase in cow numbers and output would compensate for lower weights I don't no?

blue5000

Only problem is if you start breeding traditional type cattle now it will be 2-3 years before they are finished and by then beef factories could well be looking for big 400kg+ carcases again:(

Timmaay

blue5000 wrote: »

Only problem is you start breeding traditional type cattle now it will be 2-3 years before they are finished and by then beef factories could well be looking for big 400kg+ carcases again:(

Most annoying thing about beef farming in my view, factory always moving the goalposts as such.

Use alot of AA here, on most the heifers alongside a good few cows that aren't for breeding, don't remember have a problem with any one of them over the last few yrs. The stock LM bull has thrown afew massive calves, and afew of his offspring have lost the will to live after afew days, annoying, whereas the AA always seems to be up running around and thriving, even if they are tiny.

yellow50HX

Yeah, they are hardy feckers, pop out of the mother straight on to the ground hop up and are drinking the mother withina few minutes. Easy to fed too and despite their size they'll fight their corner.

We have a fair bit of AA breed into the cows. AAX cows are get mothers too. The problem we found with cattle with a high % of AA is that they don't weight. A strong amount of AA in the mother will pass the genes on to calf. Very handy too not having to poll them.

Grecco

Best all rounder for the part time farmer. Only problem is they make feck all in the mart

locky76

Grecco wrote: »

Best all rounder for the part time farmer. Only problem is they make feck all in the mart

Not an issue if you're finishing them, I get them all out the gate to the factory between 15 & 18 months, average carcase weights for heifers 290kgs, bullocks 355 kgs, 500kgs of meal eaten in their lifetime...

renandstimpy

locky76 wrote: »

First four calves on the ground in the past two days, all flying it and two from heifers. God bless the angus i haven't seen any of them calving yet...
(Hopefully this post doesn't jinx it:rolleyes:, i'll keep ye posted)
On a broader note do people think that angus are the way to go for a suckler to beef enterprise with ease of calving and ability to put on cheap weight off grass/ small amount of meal to finish?

From someone who had an Angus bull for years the advantages are easy calving which if you have an off farm job is a must as you may not be there for them all. No dehorning . If you bring to finish you get extra for joining AA scheme which depending on amount of cattle sent to factory can add up . On the down side as stated above you will have to finish them to get best return and you will have to buy in replacements or use Ai . Also cows are costly to keep and you can buy cheap black weanlings in marts so why breed them you would be costing yourself money .

This is the reason we switched to a Lm bull last year and having just finished calving the first batch we are delighted at the outcome . small shapely calves fired out didnt handle any just after tagging and dehorning some this morning and they have turned themselves inside out in 2 weeks .Ive 3 heifers ear marked for replacements and way more options for rest of calves .


Its limousine for me from now on . saying that i was stressing to see what the new bull would throw .

whelan1

renandstimpy wrote: »

From someone who had an Angus bull for years the advantages are easy calving which if you have an off farm job is a must as you may not be there for them all. No dehorning . If you bring to finish you get extra for joining AA scheme which depending on amount of cattle sent to factory can add up . On the down side as stated above you will have to finish them to get best return and you will have to buy in replacements or use Ai . Also cows are costly to keep and you can buy cheap black weanlings in marts so why breed them you would be costing yourself money .

This is the reason we switched to a Lm bull last year and having just finished calving the first batch we are delighted at the outcome . small shapely calves fired out didnt handle any just after tagging and dehorning some this morning and they have turned themselves inside out in 2 weeks .Ive 3 heifers ear marked for replacements and way more options for rest of calves .


Its limousine for me from now on . saying that i was stressing to see what the new bull would throw .

How do the lim compare temper wise are they wild?

wiggy123

angus cattle have a lot of plus's to them! very few minus's and i do believe over the next few years--both dairy and suckler men will be using more of them.. as was the experiences of farming in the last 12 months nearly

renandstimpy

whelan1 wrote: »

How do the lim compare temper wise are they wild?

Ill give you the most honest answer i can and i can only speak for our farm .
I have a 3/4 bred aa cow other 1/4 is bb and she would kill ya .. her days are numbered . Ive a lot of limousine x cows quiet as a mouse, ive 2 pedigree saler cows we nick name them the widowmakers . ive a lot af aa x cows that are also like lambs .

Its alright saying aa are quite and dont get me wrong they are but unless your running a pedigree herd there is a certain % of this advantage lost as most peoples cows are crosses .we had offspring from our aa bulls that were off all different crosses of cows and they were mental .Out of 8 calves tagged and dehorned today we only came across one mental one .

And my personal opinon is that the days of quiet cattle is gone as the only time there handled nowadays is dehorning tagging injecting which imprints a negative assosiation with us , compared to the years gone by were there was more moving and walking cattle form a to b this all helped to quieten them . I think Quiet cattle should be termed quieter cattle . sorry for raving on

moy83

Great thread , are you breeding aa bulls to aa cows locky ? Or would it leave any more or less money to give them a charlie or limo bull to the aa cows ?
We have mostly aax cows and there is never a bother with them except that to get the most from their calves you would want to be finishing them because their weanlings dont sell as well as continentals in te mart .
We now have aa x blue ,aa x lim and a couple of aa X part in the mix aswell but these still arent guaranteed a great calf every time either .
The next step for a better calf would be to take heifers off the continental crosses above . Then I would have a fine lump of a cow that would hopefully throw me an even finer lump of a calf , but she would be eating a nice bite more than the old aa cow , and wouldnt have a fraction of the milk of an aa x which will impact on the weanlings performance aswell .
I know two lads that are getting out of sucklers because they have bred up to the best of cows over the years but feel that they still arent getting paid enough for their weanling to cover all their costs and effort .

What im thinking lately is that a more extensive approach might suit the sucklers better for all thats out of them

Now I know there are lots of people that have fine cows and calves on here and do a great job of them so dont "ate " me for my thoughts on them but I cant see myself bothering to try and breed a better suckler cow , Id be happier with a handy old cow with milk and put effort and money into finishing the offspring . What do ye think of that ?

yellow50HX

whelan1 wrote: »

How do the lim compare temper wise are they wild?

Where did this whole mad limo's come from? The amount of people that hear say it baffles me. We have a mix of AA, fr, lim, cross cows and 1 AA/bb cross.

Over the years we have had a few mental cows most were fr's. since we went with sucklers the worst were BBX. we have add a few limx and a couple of AAX. But not that many. Our last 2 lim bulls were v very quite and their heifers have been like lambs.

A few of he neighbours have other breeds, sim, bb cows and some of them are mental. Like the lads above say much of the cattle today are seldom herded so are not as used to people. We check the cows and alves a couple of times a day so they are used to being moved and are used to people.

Farmer Pudsey

I do not do sucklers however I would be slow going down the complete Traditional route as calf can be too light. It also depends if you can carry to finish.

On good land a bigger type cow LmXFr or CxXFr crossed to an AA or HE bull to easy calving and will finish fast.

On marginal land where you have to sell off spring again a LmXFr cross cow to a LM bull. Issue with AA and HE cows on marginal is the colour of the calf can be wrong for export.

See these are Hybrid bulls used for breeding in Canada back on to HE and AA cows. Any farmer that could produce such bulls and finish into AA and HE scheme would make money. They are breeding off AA and HE cows back to SI bulls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-U7wZToVtI&list=PL326C29BE364DA2B6


Look at the super baldies and baldies SIXAA, and the H2 which are HEXSI and super Guppers whicj are RedAA cows X to a Gelvais bulls.

To qualify Schemes you have to use AA and HE bulls.

johnpawl

moy83 wrote: »

Great thread , are you breeding aa bulls to aa cows locky ? Or would it leave any more or less money to give them a charlie or limo bull to the aa cows ?
We have mostly aax cows and there is never a bother with them except that to get the most from their calves you would want to be finishing them because their weanlings dont sell as well as continentals in te mart .
We now have aa x blue ,aa x lim and a couple of aa X part in the mix aswell but these still arent guaranteed a great calf every time either .
The next step for a better calf would be to take heifers off the continental crosses above . Then I would have a fine lump of a cow that would hopefully throw me an even finer lump of a calf , but she would be eating a nice bite more than the old aa cow , and wouldnt have a fraction of the milk of an aa x which will impact on the weanlings performance aswell .
I know two lads that are getting out of sucklers because they have bred up to the best of cows over the years but feel that they still arent getting paid enough for their weanling to cover all their costs and effort .

What im thinking lately is that a more extensive approach might suit the sucklers better for all thats out of them

Now I know there are lots of people that have fine cows and calves on here and do a great job of them so dont "ate " me for my thoughts on them but I cant see myself bothering to try and breed a better suckler cow , Id be happier with a handy old cow with milk and put effort and money into finishing the offspring . What do ye think of that ?

Thinking along the same lines myself. Have aax cows for years now have chx and lmx and pedigree part calving end of this year, be interesting to see which is doing the business. A lot to be said for the aaxbrfr I think, great mothers with plenty milk.

locky76

I run a pedigree angus bull with a mixed bag of cows Moy to tell you the truth, the best cows I have (based on weights of their offspring) are simmentals I bucket fed as heifer calves, they were out of my next door neighbours freisan milking herd, I like the idea of having bucket reared calves as it seems to calm them down a lot.
Other cows I have are continentals bought in as weanlings, limos from a dairy herd and I've 12 whitehead heifers around the 350kg mark who I'll be picking out the best four or five as replacements for the coming breeding season.
On a related note I'm cutting my breeding season to 10 weeks this year and down to eight weeks the following year- a cow not going in calf isn't any sort of a disadvantage- it's a natural culling regime and brings in nice shillings for a fleshy cow, let her rear the calf and then fatten her up.

moy83 wrote: »

Great thread , are you breeding aa bulls to aa cows locky ? Or would it leave any more or less money to give them a charlie or limo bull to the aa cows ?
We have mostly aax cows and there is never a bother with them except that to get the most from their calves you would want to be finishing them because their weanlings dont sell as well as continentals in te mart .
We now have aa x blue ,aa x lim and a couple of aa X part in the mix aswell but these still arent guaranteed a great calf every time either .
The next step for a better calf would be to take heifers off the continental crosses above . Then I would have a fine lump of a cow that would hopefully throw me an even finer lump of a calf , but she would be eating a nice bite more than the old aa cow , and wouldnt have a fraction of the milk of an aa x which will impact on the weanlings performance aswell .
I know two lads that are getting out of sucklers because they have bred up to the best of cows over the years but feel that they still arent getting paid enough for their weanling to cover all their costs and effort .

What im thinking lately is that a more extensive approach might suit the sucklers better for all thats out of them

Now I know there are lots of people that have fine cows and calves on here and do a great job of them so dont "ate " me for my thoughts on them but I cant see myself bothering to try and breed a better suckler cow , Id be happier with a handy old cow with milk and put effort and money into finishing the offspring . What do ye think of that ?

just do it

Alibaba wrote: »

Plus lovely quiet cattle.

Not all of them, some are dangerous, especially at calving!

KatyMac

Angus cows make mighty mothers as long as you don't have to go near them for about 4/5 days! I've got a few aax cows and never have had a problem with pulling calves, but think they would kill me if I touched either them or their calves until they've settled. I usually can tell - the mother stops putting herself between me and the calf (about 5 days), then I bring them in as they normally calve outside and tag and do whatever needs doing!
I can go up to every animal, including the calves, and touch them in the field once the madness of calving is over. I try to touch each animal at least once a day if time allows. Some of them come over to me to touch their nose to my hand. I think 'mad cattle' come about because they don't have enough human contact without them being poked and prodded and frightened.

just do it

locky76 wrote: »

On a related note I'm cutting my breeding season to 10 weeks this year and down to eight weeks the following year

Fully agree with a defined breeding season but it should be a multiple of 3 weeks. The gives each cow an equal opportunity to go in-calf.

just do it

agriman27 wrote: »

Yeah I am starting to think a tradional breed suckler herd could be the way to go too. Input costs would be lower and labour input reduced. Cow weights would also be lower and therefore more hope of getting cows out earlier on our heavy wet soil. People argue that smaller cattle and carcase weights would be to much in the difference to continental cattle but maybe an increase in cow numbers and output would compensate for lower weights I don't no?

For wet land I think carrying smaller cows is the best option. Not only get them out to grass earlier but also do less poaching while they are out. I was talking to one man close by who switched to an AA bull a few years ago due to back problems and he reckons he can carry 12 AA cows for 10 of his heavier CHx cows. Also he sells them at 12-15m in the mart and gets good money for them. I presume they're bought by finishers with an eye to finishing them in a matter of weeks after purchase.

just do it

It seems to be the few days after calving that AA are dangerous. I wonder does this run in particular bloodlines?

manjou

Have changed to angus last year and have angus bull with the cows.The calves are as big as any calves i have had of contintel bulls but may be a confirmation grade less but will all grade good rs.Calving easier all on their own and no dehorning.Will finish them and think they should weigh well but take less meal to get them there. Also just bought shorthorn bull to run with heifers and so will go back to having all traditional breeds on farm the reason being that the do not need as good a quality forage as contintel catttle and getting good forage silage and grass is becomming a problem with weather cant top and silage not getting cut on time etc. Also if you check the tully bull results over the years the traditional breeds are matching continentals for dlwg and fce .

grazeaway

manjou wrote: »

Have changed to angus last year and have angus bull with the cows.The calves are as big as any calves i have had of contintel bulls but may be a confirmation grade less but will all grade good rs.Calving easier all on their own and no dehorning.Will finish them and think they should weigh well but take less meal to get them there. Also just bought shorthorn bull to run with heifers and so will go back to having all traditional breeds on farm the reason being that the do not need as good a quality forage as contintel catttle and getting good forage silage and grass is becomming a problem with weather cant top and silage not getting cut on time etc. Also if you check the tully bull results over the years the traditional breeds are matching continentals for dlwg and fce .

did anyone watch the documentry on BBC4 about the history of farming in britan a few months ago? i think they were orginally done a few years ago. Anyway one of them was on the beef trade and how many suckler farmers and now starting to move back to AA and HF cattle. They were showing how the small cattle have changed ove rhte years and are now being breed big enough again to match the contienal cattle but a still easier to manage.

i was a on a farm walk a few years ago and the fella was finsihing these huge CH bulls for the export market, every day he was feeding a huge amount of meal to them to make the grade. One of the lads on it was a beef finsher too and he did a few sum's. in order to break even the bulls needed to be making about €2.5k each in the factory. If they made the top grade and reached the target weights they would be knocking on 3k, but if they didnt make the top grade he wouldnt get the extra bonus and only the heviest would make about 2.5k. Looked a massive gamble, the price the feed these guys was huge and he had them on grass to cut costs, i'd hate to see how much they would have cost if he had to feed them silage ina shed as well. I texted on of the lads on it a few weeks later to know if it when ok for him. half made the grade and got the top price but he lost 2 of the bulls. in the end he made a profit on them, but lost on every one the following 2 years as his feeding costs got too high.

Buncha Fives

I think that the traditional route will have to be given strong consideration by suckler farmers (particularly part-time) considering the wet weather and the rising cost of concentrates.

There is an awful lot to be said for a lot to be said for a low maintenance cattle, a lot of lads go chasing the big prices for cattle but do not look at the bottom line where meal bills and vet bills etc. have to considered. In my discussion group there is a great variation in the farmers, there are some so called progressive farmers who get top prices for their weanlings but the vet knows the road to their farm like the back of his hand...doing sections and the like, they also feed a lot of meal. On the other hand there is a guy who keeps angus, his cows have a short calving interval, he rarely touches any of them at calving and the only time they see the meal lorry is when its on the road going to the other farmers place!!

For the so called progressive suckler farmer who is pushing things to the absolute maximum there seems to be more and more work involved and the costs are always increasing making margins tighter, it is almost becoming like dairy farming where nothing can be left to chance and for a part time farmer like myself this is becoming very difficult.

With a bonus available for angus cattle and a reduced work load at calving time and no dehorning, shorter gestation period, smaller cow and reduced fodder intake it has to be given strong consideration. Obviously angus cattle don't sell as well and dont make as much money but I wonder when the somes are done to they actually leave the same profit with a lot less hastle.

KatyMac

just do it wrote: »

It seems to be the few days after calving that AA are dangerous. I wonder does this run in particular bloodlines?

5 of my cows are from the same dairy herd (therefore sired by the same bull), 2 of them even have the same mother, so I think there is a good possibility of it running in the bloodline. I bought them as 3 week old calves and reared them, so they are no strangers to me. I will have a daughter of one of them coming into herd next spring so it will be interesting to see if she is the same once the calf hits the ground.

leg wax

nice thread and dont want to derail it,but as you guys say for you to get the most out of the angus ,you have to finish them yourself,as they do not sell great as weanlings,my question if there was such a premium and bonus for angus and a lot less costs in finishing them, well why are they then so poor sellers as weanlings, it does not make sence to me, are the beef finishers missing something or are the angus breeders missing something as both cannot be right.

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

nice thread and dont want to derail it,but as you guys say for you to get the most out of the angus ,you have to finish them yourself,as they do not sell great as weanlings,my question if there was such a premium and bonus for angus and a lot less costs in finishing them, well why are they then so poor sellers as weanlings, it does not make sence to me, are the beef finishers missing something or are the angus breeders missing something as both cannot be right.

On a similar theme, we tried angus. Ran an aa bull for 7 years. Finished bullocks for the producer group scheme. It didn't pay for us. Calving was easy enough. But finishing cost money - and in 1996 when we were finishing, meal was cheap. There was a premium for angus at the time, but it still was not enough. I could only see it paying if we were able to grow our own grain or source cheap local grain.
We were finishing at 24 months. You could finish at 30 months with grass, but you're talking about keeping less cows to allow for extra space for the bullocks.

With 60+ cows, we are on a 30:20:10 split of Charolais:BB:Lim with an odd aa on a heifer.
Autumn calvers (October/Nov) are sold in September at 10 to 11 months old.
Spring calves are sold in November and February.
In reality, the profit from a good calf (BB, CH or LIM) is relatively more than we used to have from finished AA Bullocks.

Calving difficulty is an issue raised a lot here. I'm a firm believer that 90% of calving difficulty can be controlled by what the farmer feeds his animals.
We had 2 assisted calvings this year. 1 was a section on a CH calf coming backwards. The second was an aa on a heifer.
Over 20 BB's on the ground and we haven't even had to assist 1 this year.
In Calf Cows are fed on a calculated diet twice per day while they are housed. None are thin.

When I was selling the last of my spring born BB's last February/march, I was saying God Bless BB's. I'd be taking half the price if my calves that day were BB's. I'm also saying thank god I didn't listen to people's advice on here last year when I was ai'ing about there being no future in BB's.

Keep those boats rolling!! It's the only way to keep pressure on Irish meat factories.

Farmer Pudsey

leg wax wrote: »

nice thread and dont want to derail it,but as you guys say for you to get the most out of the angus ,you have to finish them yourself,as they do not sell great as weanlings,my question if there was such a premium and bonus for angus and a lot less costs in finishing them, well why are they then so poor sellers as weanlings, it does not make sence to me, are the beef finishers missing something or are the angus breeders missing something as both cannot be right.

One big issue withh AA especially off heifers is that easy calving bulls are used. These can often have poor growth rates. I had a few AA bullocks once and they only averages 300-400 grams /day over 12 months. They had fresian with them who came in and went out the same day slightly underfinished and they averaged 700 -800 grams/day. the day they were bought they all cost the same, but the fresian weres 100kgs heavier. This is a big issue withh AA. You need a big framed AA bull to breed big calves and you need mature cows. Growth rate is ver important.

On the other side I bought AA off sucklers that killed 360-400kgs as 20-22 month old bulls. My own opinion is that you need a bit of contenintal breeding on the mothers side to bring a big calf. A SI or LM cross fresian would be idea. LMX are hardier I consider. Also remember if you use a tight breeding season 8-10 weeks and cull cows at 7-10 years these will bring in a good cull value. Buy your replacments as either calves or as bucket fed weanlings to be able to calve down at 22-24 months.

You want calves born in Feb-March as when they are weaned in October you want them near 300kgs, going to grass at near 400kgs and housing in Sep/Oct after 6-8 weeks feeding 2kgs/day to kill before Christmass at 22-24 months. as bulls.

HE bulls are often run with more mature cows however some suckler farmers run these with HE cows and bulls and heifers can kill qiute light. Especilly where they keep there own replacments so that cows are near full bred HE. If breeding to finish you need a decent framed cow.

yellow50HX

leg wax wrote: »

nice thread and dont want to derail it,but as you guys say for you to get the most out of the angus ,you have to finish them yourself,as they do not sell great as weanlings,my question if there was such a premium and bonus for angus and a lot less costs in finishing them, well why are they then so poor sellers as weanlings, it does not make sence to me, are the beef finishers missing something or are the angus breeders missing something as both cannot be right.

size and weight, but you can finsh AA's earlier then other they just wont be as big. have been noticign that a lot of the weanling we sell are slaughtered off at between 18-24 months (ICBF website). Many would be 1/4 to 1/8 AA

rancher

reilig wrote: »

On a similar theme, we tried angus. Ran an aa bull for 7 years. Finished bullocks for the producer group scheme. It didn't pay for us. Calving was easy enough. But finishing cost money - and in 1996 when we were finishing, meal was cheap. There was a premium for angus at the time, but it still was not enough. I could only see it paying if we were able to grow our own grain or source cheap local grain.
We were finishing at 24 months. You could finish at 30 months with grass, but you're talking about keeping less cows to allow for extra space for the bullocks.

With 60+ cows, we are on a 30:20:10 split of Charolais:BB:Lim with an odd aa on a heifer.
Autumn calvers (October/Nov) are sold in September at 10 to 11 months old.
Spring calves are sold in November and February.
In reality, the profit from a good calf (BB, CH or LIM) is relatively more than we used to have from finished AA Bullocks.

Calving difficulty is an issue raised a lot here. I'm a firm believer that 90% of calving difficulty can be controlled by what the farmer feeds his animals.
We had 2 assisted calvings this year. 1 was a section on a CH calf coming backwards. The second was an aa on a heifer.
Over 20 BB's on the ground and we haven't even had to assist 1 this year.
In Calf Cows are fed on a calculated diet twice per day while they are housed. None are thin.

When I was selling the last of my spring born BB's last February/march, I was saying God Bless BB's. I'd be taking half the price if my calves that day were BB's. I'm also saying thank god I didn't listen to people's advice on here last year when I was ai'ing about there being no future in BB's.

Keep those boats rolling!! It's the only way to keep pressure on Irish meat factories.

Hope you realise that italian feedlots have huge single farm payments.....just thought I'd tell you that so you remember the next time you're calling for the scrapping of same

reilig

rancher wrote: »

Hope you realise that italian feedlots have huge single farm payments.....just thought I'd tell you that so you remember the next time you're calling for the scrapping of same

So if some of the guys in Ireland getting big payments gave up some of their SFP and it was paid to the Italians, we could get even more for our export weinlings?

It has to be worth considering!

What's the SFP like in Tunisia?

That's where most of mine went.

mikeoh

My 2 cents worth is that we keep a small herd of pb Angus with our mostly limousin x sucklers .what bulls we don't sell for breeding are squeezed and finished with limo bollocks . This year the Angus bullocks went to factory n December at 24 mts and averaged 340kg , the limousin weren't fit to kill till last month and averaged 390kg that works out at €200 less a head for the Angus but the limousin have ate way more than that in the last 4 months and had to get meal too!!!............as for temperament we had a Angus cow that had to go she was so dangerous but her daughter can be hand milked in the field after calving....as for keeping more Angus than other breeds ....they all eat the same only Angus will put up with poor conditions a lot better and recover very fast when feeding available where continentals fall back very fast when grass scares

reilig

Just a thought with some approximate simple figures.

To keep it all simple, lets keep the figure small.

Farmer A keeps 10 cows on 50 acres. He uses an AA bull and finishes his cattle for the factory at 24 months.

All of his cows calve in February/March. Through most of the winter 2012 he had 10 cows, 10 angus weinlings (8 to 12 months) and 10 angus bullocks and heifers aged 20 to 24 months.

How much would he need to be getting for his 10 bullocks and heifers in the factory to have profit of €300 per head?

(Note these are all hypothetical figures)

Farmer B keeps 15 cows on 50 acres which is similar in quality as Farmer A's land and he has quite similar variable costs.
He keeps AngusXLimousin Cows. Calves them all in February/March to an easy calving BB and lets them out to grass as they calve. He feeds €1500 worth of meal to the calves from May to October (€100 each) and has his 15 calves at an average weight of 340kg. They realise €3 per KG on average.

Which farmer would have the most work to do - the farmer keeping 30 animals each winter or the farmer keeping 15 animals?

Taking each year on average, which farmer would be likely to have the most profit or the least loss?

just do it

either last year or the year before the journal did a J3 section on the better farmers at the end of the 3yrs in the programme. They had the wexford lad with best of land producing top quality weanlings. High input system, high stocking rates etc. Then on the page directly opposite they had the lad from Roscommon (I think) who had switched from solely beef finishing to the low input system with angus cows and finishing the offspring. The difference in gross margin per ha was less than 10%. I recall thinking the high input system suited lads blessed with good land and the rest of us should be looking at the other option.

reilig

just do it wrote: »

either last year or the year before the journal did a J3 section on the better farmers at the end of the 3yrs in the programme. They had the wexford lad with best of land producing top quality weanlings. High input system, high stocking rates etc. Then on the page directly opposite they had the lad from Roscommon (I think) who had switched from solely beef finishing to the low input system with angus cows and finishing the offspring. The difference in gross margin per ha was less than 10%. I recall thinking the high input system suited lads blessed with good land and the rest of us should be looking at the other option.

Joe Murray is the Better Farm in Roscommon and he definitely isn't using Angus and finishing.
Would it not make more sense to have the low input system in Wexford (or on the good land) where cattle could be finished on grass, with short winters and drier weather. A system of just keeping over the winter on more marginal land would seem to be a better idea to me. Finishing cattle on marginal land would require meal supplements over winter. You are also faced with longer housing periods, more fodder requirements and poorer grass growth. It's not the ideal place for finishing an animal - best to have the calf born at the start of the grass growing season, fed and sold at a reasonable price by the end of it without the cost of housing the calf at all.

just do it

reilig wrote: »

Joe Murray is the Better Farm in Roscommon and he definitely isn't using Angus and finishing.
Would it not make more sense to have the low input system in Wexford (or on the good land) where cattle could be finished on grass, with short winters and drier weather. A system of just keeping over the winter on more marginal land would seem to be a better idea to me. Finishing cattle on marginal land would require meal supplements over winter. You are also faced with longer housing periods, more fodder requirements and poorer grass growth. It's not the ideal place for finishing an animal - best to have the calf born at the start of the grass growing season, fed and sold at a reasonable price by the end of it without the cost of housing the calf at all.

I think the big issue then is your stocking rate is predominantly made up of heavy cows vs. lighter cows and younger stock. I think I still have the section at home so will have a look for it out of interest.

reilig

just do it wrote: »

I think the big issue then is your stocking rate is predominantly made up of heavy cows vs. lighter cows and younger stock. I think I still have the section at home so will have a look for it out of interest.

LimousinXAA cows are no bigger than AA ones. In fact ours tend to be leaner than your average AA cow and therefore tend to be lighter and easier on ground. When stock start pushing 18- 20 months of age, they tend to be getting heavy too - especially if you intend finishing them.

yellow50HX

reilig wrote: »

LimousinXAA cows are no bigger than AA ones. In fact ours tend to be leaner than your average AA cow and therefore tend to be lighter and easier on ground. When stock start pushing 18- 20 months of age, they tend to be getting heavy too - especially if you intend finishing them.

we have AAX, LMX, FR/LM, AA/LM cows. you will notice the differences between the AA and LM's. the AA tend to be darker, shorter, and more stocky. The LM's tend to be taller and leaner. its been noticable when we have been culling them that the AA weights less then the LM after been left to put on weight, but they weight roughly the same when reaign the calf

just do it

I see the point about LMxAA cows. Producing continental weanlings from these makes sense a there is a market for them. The cows in the journal article were larger SM cows.

yellow50HX

just do it wrote: »

I see the point about LMxAA cows. Producing continental weanlings from these makes sense a there is a market for them. The cows in the journal article were larger SM cows.

yeah neighbour has CH and SIM cows and they are huge, make our ons look like yearlings. A few broke in last year and they were around the same size as the bull

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

Just a thought with some approximate simple figures.

To keep it all simple, lets keep the figure small.

Farmer A keeps 10 cows on 50 acres. He uses an AA bull and finishes his cattle for the factory at 24 months.

All of his cows calve in February/March. Through most of the winter 2012 he had 10 cows, 10 angus weinlings (8 to 12 months) and 10 angus bullocks and heifers aged 20 to 24 months.

How much would he need to be getting for his 10 bullocks and heifers in the factory to have profit of €300 per head?

(Note these are all hypothetical figures)

Farmer B keeps 15 cows on 50 acres which is similar in quality as Farmer A's land and he has quite similar variable costs.
He keeps AngusXLimousin Cows. Calves them all in February/March to an easy calving BB and lets them out to grass as they calve. He feeds €1500 worth of meal to the calves from May to October (€100 each) and has his 15 calves at an average weight of 340kg. They realise €3 per KG on average.

Which farmer would have the most work to do - the farmer keeping 30 animals each winter or the farmer keeping 15 animals?

Taking each year on average, which farmer would be likely to have the most profit or the least loss?

but you are giving the advantage of the AA to Farmer B's case also, although not pure the LMxAA are still only decent sized.

Should you not be using huge Sim cows for Farmer B??

My impression is that people are not saying that pure AA is the way to go - however having a strong influence of it in the beef herd is - at least that's what i would be advocating anway

mf240

Angus cows and a charlaois bull breed super stock and the cows are easy kept for the winter.

Although I think dairy calves to beef/stores is a more profitable system and easier to keep down a job as no night work ect.

just do it

I've 2 AAxBFR cows that are poor quality. Out of holstein heifers no doubt, probably bred to an east easy calving AA bull as opposed to a beef bull, if you know what I mean. Looked good when I bought them freshly calved but have disappointed since then. Have to say I hope never to buy in stock again now that I've adequate numbers.

whelan1

just do it wrote: »

I've 2 AAxBFR cows that are poor quality. Out of holstein heifers no doubt, probably bred to an east easy calving AA bull as opposed to a beef bull, if you know what I mean. Looked good when I bought them freshly calved but have disappointed since then. Have to say I hope never to buy in stock again now that I've adequate numbers.

buying in stock makes you appreciate what you breed yourself... nothing like homebred animals, you know what you are getting. Hope to be in a position not to have to buy in again have over 90 replacements for this year and next....

mikeoh

just do it wrote: »

I've 2 AAxBFR cows that are poor quality...........................................................I don't think any other breed could make a half decent beef animal out of a Holstein and this in turn gives the Angus an unjustified bad reputation as there is so many AAxHfr on the market......does anyone use an Angus bull on sucklers, and how do they find them? Some of the modern Angus at local shows are like black charolais for size and weight.....but most of the bulls in AI are the opposite to suit dairy heifers

just do it

I've used a few GJB straws this Spring so hopefully I'll have a few calves next year by him. One of the big benefits of AI, you can mix and match and at least you'd hope even the poor AI bulls are as good as a decent stock bull.