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Solar Install; the on-going saga
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I'm thinking of going down the 48v road. I'd be more inclined to put the investment in a hydro rig if I can get the right site, but considering the fickle nature of renewables 'tis best have as many sources as possible. Battery shenanigans! Hahaha, bring it!
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Off-grid really doesn't really make a lot of cents apart from the challenge unless you are very remote, it usually costs more to cycle a battery than grid charges, coupled with lack of generation when batteries are full and replacing the batteries every 7ish years it's not viable for most.
I'd probably consider grid-tie further down the line, when I'm in the mood to have certifiable equipment.
Those free inverters are all gone now, and the feed-in tariffs have dropped to less than half what they were in good 'ole near-sighted Éire. I'll more than likely be moving to the UK for this, they've far superior schemes.0 -
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Alternator charge circuit is now re-wired as per post #53 with minor modifications.
New additions to the family.JPG
I used a double schottky diode mounted on it's own heak sink for the circuit. One side protects the starter battery from unregulated solar charge. The other is to protect the Tristar's lightning protective devices from the overwhelming inductive potency of my mighty fridge fans
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See page 37, fig 5.3 here. for the hows and whys.
I tested the circuit with my cheapo Halfords charger which made it's glorious and spectacular exit of this world with a bang and a puff of that magic smoke.
Normally I'd charge the batteries as per bank but I was trying to get the charger to simulate the alternator and it did for five minutes then I think it lost a fight with the Tristar.
I second guessed myself about a few things I could have done wrong and re-wired them wronger then fixed it properly and realised that was how I had it the first time, and twas a sh1te charger anyways so no matter. It's in the bone yard now.
However the alternator is working just fine in the new arrangement. It compensates for loading within -300mA, tested up to 14amps with fully charged batteries and isolated from solar.
There's 0.4v drop on the relay activated battery link and diode which is no big deal because the solar module can boost this to the required 14.4v with no stress due to the additional current and besides when my starter is fully charged 14.8v - 0.4v = 14.4v
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I went out of my way to get a fused relay for this to reduce the amount of fuse holders I have everywhere, now I realise in the new set-up this is already protected by a maxi-blade and circuit breaker so all it's doing is adding resistance, I'll be swapping that first opportunity. I'm still debating if a larger relay is better because it's more conductive or worse because it requires a stronger electromagnet.
So...I'm currently in the market for a good cheap 20A, 25A or 30Ax3 bank mains charger...still debating if I want to spring for a Sterling Power ProCharge U. Any recommendations are welcome.0 -
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I had another epiphany this morning.
I was trying to convince myself I needed one of these. To replace my mains charger.
I'm finding it very difficult to justify the cost for 5 reasons.
A: my car cost less
B: I'm only going to use it 12-20 times a year.
C: Apart from offending my standards, any cheap charger will do because the solar can finish the job correctly after the mains charger is done.
This is a state of the art 30A mains charger for £300+, I can get the same functionality from a 45A solar controller for £120 (turns out now is the time to buy solar equipment...everything is on sale in the Winter). £120 in mains charger world won't get you much worth noting as far as I can tell.
E: There seems to be some issue with both Sterling and Pronautic chargers as the input voltage sensing relays are frequent to give up...although any reports of this I've seen are promptly followed by both companies' excellent after-service and unit replacement.
So eureka, I don't need a separate mains charger. I need a brutish 20A 24v transformer.
According to the manual the TS can take up to a 48v input.
Time to email Morningstar again.
TriStar as Mains Charger.JPG
Details on wiring diagram;
Because of recent installation of a diode between the starter battery and solar module and rerouting of charge I've lost the ability to charge my starter off the solar module, that's why the switched +ive is being added.
The changeover relay is to prevent +24vDC heading into the solar module and I think a better solution than a diode because I don't want any voltage drop from the solar module.0 -
D'oh
It just dawned on me; I only want 20A ~ 25A @14V, not 20A @24V so I only need a 350 watt traffo...Wa-hey even cheaper :cool:.0 -
It'll be a while before I get this tackled. But thanks to drawing this out I realised I ordered the wrong thermostatic switch. It'll be Normally Open I'll be needing then (open until 50°C then closed thereafter).
I'll spare yee another page of mathematical formulae and sums.
A: I bet nobody'll read them
and B: chances are I got something wrong anyways. ...what can I say I'm a cut twice measure once kinda guy. If the components work as they should under a bench test then it's a go-er. I'll take a multimeter over a calculator any day.
Suffice to say I've hopefully re-calculated correctly the minimum required resistance for this circuit with new fan specs. to keep the fans operating within their voltage tolerances with linear variable speed control via a potentiometer giving max to min revs. without stalling (noise control), and an override-off switch for night-time if this isn't enough. An override-on switch could be added in parallel to the thermostatic switch but I don't see the need (unless I was predicting a thermostatic switch failure...eh i might just use two TS switches in parallel).
Fridge Fan Circuit Diagram.JPG
If anyone is thinking of doing similar you could make it a lot simpler by using one of these instead of a resistor and dumping the potentiometer for a simpler on/off setup. I've looked at the efficiencies of a regulator versus a resistor and it's negligible. My only minor concern is that a resistor is neater and cheaper. Not that it'd be difficult to hide a regulator behind the fridge. :rolleyes:
Using a regulator also opens the market up for any 12v fan, I spent a day trying to source ones that had a wide input range.
Incidentally the link in post #46 for 6 cheapy fans...complete cowboys! They sent me one fan, then I had to order 3 more and after agreeing they'd cover postage they only sent a partial refund. :mad:0 -
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I just received a reply from Morningstar.Morningstar wrote:Hello Liam,
The xfmr output is within spec for the TS-45 controller. We use DC power supplies for in-house testing so this should be fine.
Regards
...
MS Technical support
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Sir Liamalot wrote: »you could make it a lot simpler by using a regulator and dumping the potentiometer for a simpler on/off setup.
I found a neat little PWM DC motor speed controller while looking for something else, typically after I've ordered the less ideal thing. This can't be regulated, so it will need a resistor in the circuit and/or fans with wide voltage tolerances...or you could skip the resistor and just remember to never set it above 70% while charging the batteries.
For those willing to argue over mA
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Sir Liamalot wrote: »I found a neat little PWM DC motor speed controller while looking for something else, typically after I've ordered the less ideal thing. This can't be regulated, so it will need a resistor in the circuit and/or fans with wide voltage tolerances...or you could skip the resistor and just remember to never set it above 70% while charging the batteries.
For those willing to argue over mA
you'll have spent the price of a battery by the time your finished 0 -
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Tehehe everyone's picking on my poor fridge.
Holyhutzpa sent me this a few days ago, it's an interesting mod. to retrofit a 3-way fridge with a Waeco compressor:holyhutzpa wrote:
Is this the Euronics one?
24Ah p/d @ 40dB
Beats the Waeco @ 34Ah p/d & 45dB
Let's knock that Euronics one up 25% for the inverter loss and electron thieves. I agree you could make it more efficient but this is the cover your posterior approach.
30Ah p/d assuming hot weather = more photons, cold weather = less fridge and hope that works. And assuming the compressor motor can't be swapped/bodged for a 12v one.
Saving me €95 (rough estimate) per year in gas less 15% for new ventilation system lets say 10% for arguements sake.
So €85 annual gas saving. Requiring substantial recalibration of the woodwork, an additional 100/120watt solar, digital alternator regulator (if Tristar isn't cutting the mustard....still awaiting field tests),+100Ah batteries, 150 watt pure sine wave inverter, an AC motor soft starter
, bag of gubbins....shesh! What's that ring out to? Oh yeah...sell 3-way fridge, buy compressor fridge. Still not enough photons and no roof space left...ok tilting brackets and I'm there.
*€450 - €600* install costs sez the hazard-a-guess-pixies, depending on the going rate of a second hand 3-way fridge! So about the same price of a Waeco and no way to power it or a 3-way except the economy is loadsa new gizmos to play with.
In bottles of gas years that's a lot longer than I intend to wild it.
If I was to start a new build then yes I'd seriously consider it. Currently I think I'm happy to efficient the bejaysus outta the one I have and eventually service it...any week now..honest.:rolleyes::D
Absorption fridges have limited life expectancy especially if they're not run, I hear the biggest design flaw is the inner gubbins aren't protected from oxidation and rot from the inside out. I don't think I'll buy another.
Gas while not ecological is quiet, convenient, and reliable; two bottles..always got gas.
Good suggestion though..wasn't trying to knock it.
Throw in a mains charge every 3-5 days you could get away with less solar and maybe batteries.0 -
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The price of those danfoss compressors is just silly
You must be used to that by now
The whole marine/camping market are a bunch of rip-off merchants.
If I walk into an electrical wholesaler and ask for 20m of 1.5m artic cable, a 16amp plug and socket it'll be €25- €30
If I walk into a camping store and ask for a 20m electrical hook-up lead then it's €50.
I could give 10 more examples without stress.I wouldn't be surprised if it was a normal ac compressor and the controller an inverter
I think they're switched reluctance motors actually.Danfoss wrote:The BD compressors are fitted with a brushless direct current motor which is electronically commutated by an electronic unit.
Found that here
The Euronics one is still way ahead at twice the volume even with an outrageous 25% inverter loss.
I think compressor fridges have their place on 30+footers and >3.5 tonners that have the expedition kit to support it. Or on the weekend trippers who are never more than 3 days from an EHU.
If you want to tour one it'll be hard work to meet the demand...still possible though.
I see where you're coming from;You must be german - plan what you need in the fridge before you open it
We wouldn't get anywhere near that with the 5 of us. Just looking at the spec for our and is 270g / 24 hours at 25 deg average temp.
...still funny 0 -
I pulled out all my undersized cable, swapping 1.5mmᴓ and 2.5mmᴓ for 4mmᴓ stranded, broken down to 2.5mmᴓ stranded for local regulators to give me a voltage drop of 2% at the the fridge and the 12v outlets.
I gutted my 7.5A 12v. cig socket for the ports and reconnected it on 4mmᴓ.
I installed the switch to link the starter and leisure batteries for solar charge complete with Idiot Light. I wanted the light to switch on automatically when I linked the batteries but realised that a switch between battery +ives is on on both sides. I'm fresh outta single pole, double throw 25A DC switches so I had to switch a spur instead. Idiot switches on idiot light when he links the batteries. Idiot sees idiot light after sunset and remembers to switch off battery link. Idiot switches off idiot light.
I have a split charge relay in a box somewhere, I might eventually swap this out but it could also require some protection from the alternator.
I'm still waiting for a resistor and speed control for the fridge fans. They're very quiet though. Inaudible if there's any background noise...except for the one with a gimpy bearing :mad:. On the bright side they're only 125mA each to run not the advertised 180mA.
They're on two parallel 50°C Normal Open thermostatic switches tied to the upper condenser heat sink. This enables the fans when either thermostat is >50°C. They work great, they don't run very long in this weather unless the fridge is at full whack. Great craic just watching them auto blasting.
Baffles are holding well, mosquito nets are shredded...I'd better recruit some more spiders. The gas hob igniter wire assembly was bouncing on it's wires after popping it's rivet...scary things you find behind a fridge sometimes.:eek:
The fridge has gone from running at 9.5A to 10.5A my shunted ammeter tells me, I seem to have made it more effective but less efficient...bugger.
This sounds very high to me; a 100watt element running at 125watts.
It's alone on a 10amp circuit breaker and not tripping though.
And my RMS clamp meter tells me it's drawing 5.5A from the furthest battery and 3.6A at the nearest.
The inverter can run the AC element for 10.5A -11A IIRC (I'll check cast-away notes at a later date). This would eventually be better as the thermostat on the AC element would reduce running consumption.
I extended a mains socket to where my traffo/charger is going to live.
What's the consensus about AC earthing to the chassis? I'm pro local earthing via the EHU earth, but not entirely convinced it's any benefit to extend to the chassis. Would it not be a potential hazard for DC if it was? How are coach builds earthed?
I spent 3 hours chasing a short circuit on the main consumer circuit breaker, pulled out the fridge again :rolleyes: and all my new wiring to check for meltage. Tracked it down to the overhead lighting circuit. Dropped the ceiling single handed and tried all that wiring for ground faults. Then realised it was a pair of incandescent bulbs.
Net savings;
Striplight LEDs are consuming 15% to 45% less with the greatest saving on the highest intensity.
Laptop 12v power is ~20% reduced and no longer getting hot at the outlet.I opened up the Halfords cheapo charger looking to salvage some gubbins. I'm entirely unimpressed, that contraption was made to fry.
13A fuse protecting 6A cable on a 500mA device with no protection on the DC side. The regulators are looking kinda toasted. The effin' thing is made of resistors must be 200 of the blighters...would it have the one I needed? ...of course not!
I learned quickly when tackling a job of this magnitude that it's impossible not to lose your screwdriver...the trick is to lose a screwdriver in every location you are working!0 -
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I've figured out why it's called a TriStar now
World leading solar controller Digital alternator regulator Mains charger
All temperature compensated and fully programmable.
and it's on sale!
My traffo arrived today.
Carefully Read the Instructions.JPG
2 minutes later.JPG
System is up and working. There's no actual changeover relays yet...that's just me pulling/plugging fuses, flicking trips and switches and I haven't even blown anything else up yet. It'll be a relief when it's all automated and idiot-proof all the same.
The Empire Expands.JPG
The toggle switch on the side of the TS-45 is the battery link for solar charge. At the moment it's also a 125A battery sense lead for the alternator.
Traffo is working fine but it's very buzz hummy when the Tristar is in PWM absorption (hopefully...I haven't heard it in bulk or float yet). I was waiting for it to explode but it seems happy enough, maybe it's powered by bees. I'm entirely willing to forgive this because now I have a 25Amp state of the art mains charger for €40.
I'll let yous know if the magic smoke escapes.
The spare diode is tied up again. The traffo seems to be drawing power from the TS-45 when the AC is off. So that's now blocking this sheniganary. The analogue adjust on the traffo goes from 21v-29v which I thought is fairly impressive.
Turns out my solar module has been down for two days, I just thought it was cloudy/shaded. I think I pulled the +ive outta the circuit breaker with the kitchen shenanigans.
I had to resort to a borrowed Aldi charger last night, you know for what it is, it's not bad. It did a better job of charging the bank than the Halfords jobbie ever did...even if it did take 13 hours and then I had solar back online. Paddy's right, it won't float...at least it's stopped trickle equalising my starter now (traffo is only getting used during the day...it's that loud...and that's before the fan lifts-off hahaha! 25 amps though doesn't take long Mwahaha!
I've been thinking about a split charger, I've decided against mine because A: diodes in charge circuits don't work (unless they're compensated for) B: I had a look at mine and I've no doubt I'll melt it in a matter of weeks, there's no place for a 20 amp relay (10A per battery bank) in a 40 amp setup. This one has caught my attention; good value, no diodes...for what it's worth...I'm happy with the idiot switch for now.
Other recent events; I take back all I said about those cheapy fan purveyors. The company I bought them from replied to my negative feedback with a promise to send me another fan and cover postage to replace the one with the bad bearing if I amended my feedback comments.
I don't even have to return the bad one after I explained it was butchered and an hour deep into fridge country. 0 -
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