So what's the best child-friendly, small dog out there?

dtipp

`
Need some advice and suggestions.

I grew up on a farm - where we always had dogs, up to five at the one time. But they were big dogs, collies and labradors.

Now, I'm living in a semi-detached house in a town - with small kids (the youngest is 3) and I'm looking to get a dog again. I loved having a dog when I was young and I want the kids to have that enjoyment too.

But I guess it'll have to be a small dog - there's an enclosed back garden, but not enough for a big dog to run free on. And though I'd have little experience with purebreds (just one of the dogs when I was young was a purebred and he was very sickly) I was thinking of something like a Maltese or something similiar (definitely not paying more than a couple of hundred).

Any advice, and also (though I'm not sure if I'll be breaking any house rules asking this) where would I go to buy a purebred dog?

Cheers

Irishchick

If you visit a reputable rescue <snip> they can match you with a suitable dog that will match your lifestyle. Plus you will have given a dog a home.

The donation (a lot less than the cost of buying and supporting breeding when there is no need)means the dog will be wormed vaccinated and neutered/spayed when you adopt it.

As per the forum charter, please do not recommend individual rescues by name.
Thanks,
DBB

borderlinemeath

There is no specific breed that is 'good with kids', it's down to the training & socialization that you do with the dog, any size, any breed.

There's plenty of medium & large breed dogs that are part of families living in regular houses with small gardens so I wouldn't limit yourself to a small dog. What I would say is that while you had dogs growing up in a farming environment, having a family dog will be a different scenario. Mental and physical stimulation will be key for your dog to ensure its wellbeing and quality of life, whereas a farm reared dog would 'work' for that stimulation and exercise.

When choosing a breeder it is advisable to contact the breed club but be prepared to wait as responsible breeders tend to have a waiting list. Have a read of the puppy farm sticky at the top of the page which explains why it's best to avoid online sites such as donedeal and what to look out for.

tk123

borderlinemeath wrote: »

There's plenty of medium & large breed dogs that are part of families living in regular houses with small gardens so I wouldn't limit yourself to a small dog.

+1 we have a small terraced house with a small garden and a golden retriever. He doesn't need to run free in a garden - he's taken on walks and would rather be inside with us.

Outkast_IRE

There are alot of dogs that will suit your needs , others above have reccomended the same as i would.

I will say though that no matter how well the dog is trained etc, most dogs wont take much abuse from kids even if its unintended, kids will do as kids will do.

Kids should be taught the proper way to interact with the dog, and told what areas the dog likes to be rubbed and to be careful not to stand on paws, or pull by tail etc.

Generally when the dogs are socialised properly, and the kids are taught that the dog must be treated with respect they will get along fine.

ABajaninCork

A Shih Tzu! Non-shed. Small, friendly, outgoing personality. Great with kids - my friend bought one for her granddaughter, and just LOVE to play! I always say a Shih Tzu never grows up.

Knine

Purebred dogs are not any more likely to be sickly if you get them off a reputable breeder. I have lots of dogs and the only sickly one is actually a cross breed. One of my cross breeds also died of heart failure aged 2 years.

It is not reputable breeders who are responsible for dogs dying in pounds but rather back yard breeders and puppy farmers only interested in making money. I call them Greeders rather than Breeders.

There is no best small dog for children, rather its the best dog that suits your circumstances and the amount of training and socialisation of the dog.

If you contact the Breed Clubs however, it will cost more then a couple of hundred to purchase a pedigree as it costs a lot of money to produce decent dogs. Another idea for you is to go to an IKC show where you will get to see lots of breeds.

Some of the breed clubs also would know of pedigree rescues that need homes. Of course a crossbreed will make just as good a pet as any pedigree if showing etc is not important to you.

ShaShaBear

A pure-bred puppy from a reputable breeder plus vet visits for boosters will be more than "a couple of hundred".

Size of dog will not come into it, as no-matter how small it is, it will need more than "to run free on" a garden. The dog will need to be walked at least once, but preferably twice a day. So don't feel the need to limit yourself to a small breed, you're going to have to walk it regardless.

As for breed, as people have already said, there is no go-to rule whereas breeds and children are concerned. It all comes down to correct socialization of the puppy. And obviously, never, ever leave your children alone and unsupervised with the puppy, as much for the puppy's safety as that of your children. Accidents can and will happen, and 9 times out of 10 the poor dog will get the blame. You must also be aware that puppies will bite. You will need to correctly train them out of this normal behavior.

As for age (which I feel needs to be addressed) be very aware, as I said above, that puppies will and do bite and nip - its part of their natural socialization as puppies, and normally they would experiment with their siblings. You should also be aware of the fact that you will need to toilet train the pup, and this can take anything from a few days to a few months. Be prepared to find surprises all over the place, depending on what areas of the house you allow the pup to use. And finally, be aware that most puppies, especially when they hit the 6 month mark, will be VERY excitable and jumpy - you should definitely be aware of this with a child barely out of the terrible twos :P

Lastly, and just as my own preference, I would suggest visiting your local dog rescue to enquire. They often have pure-bred and cross-bred puppies and young dogs, as well as older dogs (who come with the benefit of already being trained to different extents and will have been neutered and vaccinated) and you can stress the fact that you have children. They will match you up with a dog that suits you for a donation that is a fraction of the cost of a purebred puppy and they will have received the same veterinary care, and will likely be microchipped.
Some rescues will even do foster programmes with you, allowing you to take the suggested dog on a trial basis to see if they suit you - if you find you can't cope, or it wasnt what you expected, you can give the dog back without feeling guilty and knowing you saved the rescue a fair few bob in kennelling costs, and if it works out, you've given a dog a second chance.
(Of course, I have nothing against buying a purebred puppy, its something I plan to do myself in the future, but based on your requirements, there is no real need for you to pay for a purebred)

Lastly, just to re-iterate on a point:
My collie is fantastic with children, and I know most people would not recommend a collie for family life with young kids.
My cousin has a Shih Tzu, who has bitten both of her children once, and I know many people would definitely recommend this breed for families with children.
By and large, a dog's behaviour will be a product of its environment, and not its breed

Best of luck, and enjoy the next 10+ years with your new child :P

Outkast_IRE

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Lastly, just to re-iterate on a point:
My collie is fantastic with children, and I know most people would not recommend a collie for family life with young kids.
My cousin has a Shih Tzu, who has bitten both of her children once, and I know many people would definitely recommend this breed for families with children.
By and large, a dog's behaviour will be a product of its environment, and not its breed

Best of luck, and enjoy the next 10+ years with your new child :P

I would have to agree, i also have a collie, and because she was socialised with children so well with kids etc from a young age she is very patient with them.
I live in a cul de sac next to a primary school and kids often wander over to the front of the house to rub the dog when going past, she loves the attention.

Also very good watchdogs, can spot someone who doesnt fit a mile off and will give grumpy barks to leave us know. No breakins or attempts on our row of houses cause of the dog too, she can identify any noise that doesnt fit a mile off at night.

ShaShaBear

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I would have to agree, i also have a collie, and because she was socialised with children so well with kids etc from a young age she is very patient with them.
I live in a cul de sac next to a primary school and kids often wander over to the front of the house to rub the dog when going past, she loves the attention.

Also very good watchdogs, can spot someone who doesnt fit a mile off and will give grumpy barks to leave us know. No breakins or attempts on our row of houses cause of the dog too, she can identify any noise that doesnt fit a mile off at night.

My boy is the same. We live in the countryside at the minute, and he runs straight to our window if he hears a car coming up the driveway, or voices that sound a bit too close. He knows our car if Daddy (my OH :rolleyes: ) is coming home though, you can see the difference. And yet the exact same type of car driven by someone else up the lane causes a complete different reaction.

borderlinemeath

While I did state earlier than any size or any breed dog can be suitable with the right training and socialization - a collie would be one that might not be suitable for a small garden/children household. If understimulated then they have been known to herd children and even nip at them as the collie herding instinct is fairly hardwired into the majority of them. They are such an intelligent breed they need more mental stimulation than most dogs.

DBB

I'm also inclined to just add a caveat that although good socialisation is really important, it is not the full story in what makes a good kid-friendly family dog. Genes play a HUGE role too, and there are breeds, and many individuals within all breeds, which will still make poor family pets despite extensive socialisation. I'll bet there are many posters here who've raised pups, even littermates, identically, but still found huge differences in their behaviours.

WIZE

West Highland Terrier

I say this as i have 2 never an issue with kids pulling out of them

DBB

WIZE wrote: »

West Highland Terrier

I say this as i have 2 never an issue with kids pulling out of them

That's great that you've had good experience with the two you have, but take it from someone who has extensive experience them, hundreds of them, they are generally not to be recommended to live full time with young children. They're often fine with visiting children, but just don't have high enough tolerance to live with children 24/7.
I would say that at least half of the westies surrendered to rescue, are surrendered because there's been an "incident" with a child. They generally just don't have the patience, or tolerance of being over-handled or cuddled.
They are one of the breeds I would categorically recommend against for a family with small children, because about 8 out every 10 westies I know would rather not live with children on a full-time basis.

ShaShaBear

borderlinemeath wrote: »

While I did state earlier than any size or any breed dog can be suitable with the right training and socialization - a collie would be one that might not be suitable for a small garden/children household. If understimulated then they have been known to herd children and even nip at them as the collie herding instinct is fairly hardwired into the majority of them. They are such an intelligent breed they need more mental stimulation than most dogs.

Just to point out I wasn't advocating a collie, I totally agree, it just so happens that my idiot is good with kids, but most people wouldn't advise them, and rightly so - was just trying to get the point across that while, say 20 people have had no issue with a particular breed, doesn't mean you wont

Intelligent breed :rolleyes: Clearly you've never seen my Shadow attack the bubbles that come on my monitor when the PC goes to sleep

Seriously though, while there are probably breeds that are genetically predisposed to slightly more tolerance of general screaming, pulling, pushing and heavy petting, OP will still need to make sure they socialise the puppy (not directed at you borderlinemeath, just a conclusion in general )

borderlinemeath

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Just to point out I wasn't advocating a collie, I totally agree, it just so happens that my idiot is good with kids, but most people wouldn't advise them, and rightly so - was just trying to get the point across that while, say 20 people have had no issue with a particular breed, doesn't mean you wont

Intelligent breed :rolleyes: Clearly you've never seen my Shadow attack the bubbles that come on my monitor when the PC goes to sleep

Seriously though, while there are probably breeds that are genetically predisposed to slightly more tolerance of general screaming, pulling, pushing and heavy petting, OP will still need to make sure they socialise the puppy (not directed at you borderlinemeath, just a conclusion in general )

Absolutely, there's always exceptions, what I was thinking in my head was that firstly I posted telling the OP that any dog is capable of being a family pet but rereading through and they had collies on the farm but in a regular sized back garden they can be a different story!

ShaShaBear

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Absolutely, there's always exceptions, what I was thinking in my head was that firstly I posted telling the OP that any dog is capable of being a family pet but rereading through and they had collies on the farm but in a regular sized back garden they can be a different story!

Definitely, that's how my boy started out. My dad had no idea what he was at when he got a collie for me, and if I knew then what I know now I would have insisted on a different breed. Fortunately he gets proper stimulation now, but he does still try to herd myself and my partner on the occasion.

Cedrus

dtipp wrote: »

`
Need some advice and suggestions.

I grew up on a farm - where we always had dogs, up to five at the one time. But they were big dogs, collies and labradors.

Now, I'm living in a semi-detached house in a town - with small kids (the youngest is 3) and I'm looking to get a dog again. I loved having a dog when I was young and I want the kids to have that enjoyment too.

But I guess it'll have to be a small dog - there's an enclosed back garden, but not enough for a big dog to run free on. And though I'd have little experience with purebreds (just one of the dogs when I was young was a purebred and he was very sickly) I was thinking of something like a Maltese or something similiar (definitely not paying more than a couple of hundred).

Any advice, and also (though I'm not sure if I'll be breaking any house rules asking this) where would I go to buy a purebred dog?

Cheers

As others have said, you are not likely to get a pedigree dog of any quality in this price range, although a few years back we did get the result of a happy accident where the dog found a hole in a fence and we got two pedigrees in one

While a small dog might have enough space in a back garden they still need to be walked, just because they have the space doesn't mean that they will actually exercise. We have two small dogs and while one has plenty of physical activity of his own volition, the other is a bit of a slob and HAS to be taken for walks. however both of them benefit from the mental activity of walks, they bark a lot more if they haven't been walked.

It's much easier for a child to accidentally threaten a small dog, some of the best behaved dogs will snap if a child suddenly looms over them while a slightly larger dog will not feel the same level of threat, a confident well socialised dog is essential around children (and adults who haven't been socialised with dogs).

I don't have personal experience, and I am open to correction, but I'm thinking of a greyhound for you, not too big but enough not to be nervous, not too demanding of exercise, and there are plenty of them for re-homing so good for the budget.

borderlinemeath

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Definitely, that's how my boy started out. My dad had no idea what he was at when he got a collie for me, and if I knew then what I know now I would have insisted on a different breed. Fortunately he gets proper stimulation now, but he does still try to herd myself and my partner on the occasion.

I used to mind one that herded everything, humans, horses, other dogs..he even used to herd the dogs playing throw the ball, he would watch them watching the ball then herd them back when they caught it. He was never worked a day in his life and was also fascinated with his reflection in his water bowl:D

ShaShaBear

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I used to mind one that herded everything, humans, horses, other dogs..he even used to herd the dogs playing throw the ball, he would watch them watching the ball then herd them back when they caught it. He was never worked a day in his life and was also fascinated with his reflection in his water bowl:D

In his water bowl? :P I think collies are slowly losing their intelligent reputation. Earlier today, Shadow walked into the landing window not once, not twice, but three times - because there was a butterfly on the window and clearly that means the window is not there.
Then again he is just after lifting the throw off the couch, carrying it to my OH, and tried to drag it onto the armchair beside him. He had to cover him with the blanket, and now the eegit is fast asleep. Still absolutely baffled as to where he got the idea to ask to be tucked in. :rolleyes:

Cedrus

ABajaninCork wrote: »

A Shih Tzu! Non-shed. Small, friendly, outgoing personality. Great with kids - my friend bought one for her granddaughter, and just LOVE to play! I always say a Shih Tzu never grows up.

I only know one Shi Tzu and and I couldn't recommend her as a pet for an adult much less a child. The only dog I've met that growls when it's being stroked.

dtipp

Thanks for all the replies everyone, greatly appreciated.

I think I'd be wary of getting a big dog, as some have suggested. I know every dog needs to be walked every day, but coming from a farming background I'd feel a bit guilty leaving a big dog in a small garden for much of the day. I know many of ye might already do that, and that's fine, but just not for me.

And I'm not determined it'll be a purebred, but I'm also slightly wary of a rescue dog. I've no experience of this (so I know I'm going to be corrected) but I'm a little worried I might be getting a dog that was abandoned because they might have bitten a child or something similar (and the rescue doesn't know this). And then in I go and bring the dog home to my children! (Like DDB said above: "I would say that at least half of the westies surrendered to rescue, are surrendered because there's been an "incident" with a child.")

Obviously a "couple of hundred" won't suffice based on some of the replies if I am to go the route of a pedigree, and, if I do it that way, I want to do it properly - not a puppy farm.

Think the consensus is I should contact a rescue or club and see what they say.

borderlinemeath

dtipp wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies everyone, greatly appreciated.

I think I'd be wary of getting a big dog, as some have suggested. I know every dog needs to be walked every day, but coming from a farming background I'd feel a bit guilty leaving a big dog in a small garden for much of the day. I know many of ye might already do that, and that's fine, but just not for me.

And I'm not determined it'll be a purebred, but I'm also slightly wary of a rescue dog. I've no experience of this (so I know I'm going to be corrected) but I'm a little worried I might be getting a dog that was abandoned because they might have bitten a child or something similar (and the rescue doesn't know this). And then in I go and bring the dog home to my children! (Like DDB said above: "I would say that at least half of the westies surrendered to rescue, are surrendered because there's been an "incident" with a child.")

Obviously a "couple of hundred" won't suffice based on some of the replies if I am to go the route of a pedigree, and, if I do it that way, I want to do it properly - not a puppy farm.

Think the consensus is I should contact a rescue or club and see what they say.

There is no need to be wary of a rescue dog. Go the puppy route and you can end up with a dog that doesn't like kids if the breeder didn't socialize them with children from early on in their lives. Particular emphasis needs to be placed on getting the right pup from the right breeder when you want it to be a family pet, so many back yard breeders don't know the importance of early socialization, they're usually just in it for the cash.

Good rescues will not rehome a dog to a family if it isn't good with kids. There are some great rescues that use experienced fosters who will assess the dogs temperament and ability to live in a home environment before a rescue will rehome to anybody. Just don't confuse rescues with pounds as they don't assess dogs, or vaccinate, or neuter, they take your release fee, you pay your licence and that's it. Maybe if you say what part of the country you were in posters could pm you details of local reputable rescues?

Just to add, if you're intent on getting a small dog, most of the smaller breeds such as a Maltese, wouldn't be suitable for leaving in a back garden all day anyway. Our wonderful Irish weather can be too cold for some breeds.

misses with rifles

ABajaninCork wrote: »

A Shih Tzu! Non-shed. Small, friendly, outgoing personality. Great with kids - my friend bought one for her granddaughter, and just LOVE to play! I always say a Shih Tzu never grows up.

a shih tzu is that a zoo with no animals

Mod note: Funny, but stay OT thanking you.

Ash.J.Williams

My niece just got a west highland, which is perfect for kids and yet are hardy farm dogs too! Small and cute for a month or two but I just saw her yesterday and she had grown and filled out quite a bit

DBB

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Good rescues will not rehome a dog to a family if it isn't good with kids. There are some great rescues that use experienced fosters who will assess the dogs temperament and ability to live in a home environment before a rescue will rehome to anybody. dog,

+1 to this.
I wasn't trying to scare you with what I said about westies above, op, just giving my experience and recommendation not to choose this breed if you've young kids. But the critical thing is, the rescue KNOWS that individual dogs are not good on homes with kids, men, cats, whatever, because they have a full history of the dog from the owner, and therefore the dogs have a provenance that's worth it's weight in gold (assuming that the owner is being honest. Very few lie when directly asked has their dog bitten before, tbh)
If you've got small kids, a good rescue will not give you a dog without it first being assessed with kids over time in foster care, nor will they give you a dog without a provenance (eg one that they just don't have a history on with kids).

Inexile

You need to look at your whole lifestyle, not just the size of your back garden when choosing a dog. You need know whether or not it will be a house dog, where will it sleep, how much exercise are you willing to provide, how much grooming are you up to. Some of the small breeds mentioned earlier in this thread require a fair amount of work to keep their coats in good order.

There was nice thread a few months back with a link to a site that helped select the breed most suitable to you and feed back on it was it fairly accurate. I cant find it but some else on here may be able to do so.

Good luck with your search

dtipp

Thanks.
I'm in North Tipp.
Any PMs with suggestions where to go appreciated.

ShaShaBear

And I really don't want this to sound hateful or cruel towards you, OP - but I think you really need to consider what you mean when you say "out the back most of the day". This is really not suitable for any dog, regardless of its breed or age. Obviously if you will be working and absolutely refuse to keep the dog inside, but will let it in when you get home for the evening that's alright, but just throwing it out the back and leaving it there until someone feels like going out to pet it will absolutely not do. You will end up with a very high-strung, anxious and probably yappy dog.

Just consider how often you can interact with this dog, for how long you can interact with it, and what you will be willing to do when the weather is not suitable for putting a dog outside, which is every second day in this country.

The size of your garden is irrelevant, it is no more cruel to leave a rottie outside from 9 till 5 than it is to leave a terrier out there.

boomerang

Cedrus wrote: »

I don't have personal experience, and I am open to correction, but I'm thinking of a greyhound for you, not too big but enough not to be nervous, not too demanding of exercise, and there are plenty of them for re-homing so good for the budget.

100% agree! It is a pity people don't know a bit more about them. They are a fantastic dog with children! They are steady, placid, patient and adore kids. For a young family they're ideal. They are a healthy breed, very quiet, clean, non-shedding, don't take up a lot of space, are lazy sods, love cuddling up in front of the TV with the kids and are happy with short walks. A good rescue would match you with a grey who's not bothered about cats so you wouldn't have that worry.

Inexile

boomerang wrote: »

100% agree! It is a pity people don't know a bit more about them. They are a fantastic dog with children! They are steady, placid, patient and adore kids. For a young family they're ideal. They are a healthy breed, very quiet, clean, non-shedding, don't take up a lot of space, are lazy sods, love cuddling up in front of the TV with the kids and are happy with short walks. A good rescue would match you with a grey who's not bothered about cats so you wouldn't have that worry.

Im a big fan and indeed advocate for the greys and would agree with all said above. I didnt refer to them in my earlier post as, apart from not wishing to push my own preference/agenda, from what the OP has stated they may not suit. Greys are actually indoor dogs. They have very little fat and feel the cold acutely - its why I wrap mine up in a very nice jacket for most of the winter and in this so called summer. Otherwise they are an ideal family pet.

If OP is intestered in a Grey look up "Greyhound Rescue Association of Ireland" for a listing of various rescues or pm me if you want a to know more about the group Im involved with.


Post edited to remove rescue organisation(s). Please keep recommendations to PM.
Thanks.
DBB

Edited again to add: I have reinstated Inexile's full post, due to a reconsideration of the rules. See below :-)

boomerang

Josie (grey) is here draped across the armchair in her bright pink fleecy day coat.

Agree on keeping greys indoors. But maybe OP you're only assuming that your dog will have to be outside during the day when you're not there? There are a whole host of reasons why it'd be better to have them in the house while you're out. The dog's comfort and safety are number one. The noise nuisance to neighbours is another.

Also think about whether the dog is going to sleep indoors at night or outside in a kennel or shed. That set-up wouldn't suit a toy breed as they crave human company, and even large breeds can suffer from the cold, if they're short-coated. Puppies are definitely not suited to sleeping on their own outdoors.

dtipp

There would be no one at the house from noon to five each week day, so I only meant the dog would be out the back during those hours. I intend on allowing the dog access to the house, though probably only downstairs. There is a shed in the garden and so shelter from rain but I'd intend that the dog sleeps in the house.

ShaShaBear

dtipp wrote: »

There would be no one at the house from noon to five each week day, so I only meant the dog would be out the back during those hours. I intend on allowing the dog access to the house, though probably only downstairs. There is a shed in the garden and so shelter from rain but I'd intend that the dog sleeps in the house.

Great news
In that case, unless you absolutely prefer a small dog, I wouldn't confine your choices as such. If you rescue an adult dog, they will be fine outside for a few hours with a hot water bottle and a bed and some toys, but that wouldn't really be suitable with a puppy. However, crate training would be the way to go if you wanted to protect the house and let the dog be inside while you're gone!

DBB

Just to update this thread,
Inexile recommended OP to check out an website which represents a number of different rescues, which I removed due to the charter rules re not linking to rescues.
However, after discussion and due consideration, it seems unfair to have applied this rule in this instance, as there wasn't one rescue being pushed on the OP, which is what that rule is all about.
For this reason, I have reinstated Inexile's full post, and apologies to Inexile for the inconvenience.
Thanks,
DBB

Tisserand

I have a Maltese. He lives inside the house and while I don't have kids, he is great with my very young nieces. Would recommend this breed based on my own experience but perhaps other boardsies might have had a different experience?

dtipp

Just as an update:

I've emailed a local Animal Rescue explaining my plans and situation etc, so we'll see what they say.

Thanks all for comments.
I have to admit, if I hadn't posted here, I might well have gone the donedeal ad route.

westies4ever

WIZE wrote: »

West Highland Terrier

I say this as i have 2 never an issue with kids pulling out of them

christ no! too quick to temper. in fact a certain rescue that deals with westies wont rehome them to a home with children under 10.

magentas

dtipp wrote: »

Just as an update:

I've emailed a local Animal Rescue explaining my plans and situation etc, so we'll see what they say.

Thanks all for comments.
I have to admit, if I hadn't posted here, I might well have gone the donedeal ad route.

This post has made my day!:D Well done for considering the rescue route dtipp, it's so rewarding to open your heart and your home to a rescue dog and you will be teaching your children compassion towards animals. It really is a lovely thing to do.

Best of luck and hope it all works out well for ye!