which timber for insert stove

Dec the trucker

can anyone tell me is spruce or popular any good when seasoned for an insert stove? i have about an a half acre to spare in a low side of a field and was thinking of planting trees for future fuel. buying split ash lately but would prefer to grow my own.

ABlur

Dec the trucker wrote: »

can anyone tell me is spruce or popular any good when seasoned for an insert stove? i have about an a half acre to spare in a low side of a field and was thinking of planting trees for future fuel. buying split ash lately but would prefer to grow my own.

Waste of time in my opinion, you need kiln dried wood for any heat from these stoves.

Dec the trucker

sorry but your wrong there. we are burning ash and beech well seasoned and the heat is unreal from it.

Username John

Dec the trucker wrote: »

can anyone tell me is spruce or popular any good when seasoned for an insert stove? i have about an a half acre to spare in a low side of a field and was thinking of planting trees for future fuel. buying split ash lately but would prefer to grow my own.

We have an insert stove, and have burned a bit of Spruce. Its not as good as Ash, but at the same time - once you control the burn, I find its fine...
Heatwise I would find no difference, it will burn quicker relative to Ash tho... As long as its seasoned, you should be fine...

Would you not consider planting Ash? Or is your ground a bit too wet do you think?

Oldtree

Am thinking of putting in a stove too, but not an insert as I want as much heat from the fire to come out into the room, possibly up to 90% and I remain unconvinced that insert stoves can achieve ratings comperable to ordinary outset stoves.

SEAI would appear to disagree with me given the comparrison ratings on this page:

http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Technical/HARP_Database/Solid_Fuel_Room_Heaters/


Ash is by far the best wood to burn imo, but you cannot buy seedlings now due to the Ash Dieback. You could plant out your own seedlings, like I am doing. However i cahanged the ratio of ash I was going to plant and instead put in more sycamore (my own seedlings too). I have a mixture of poplar (unknown fast grower and aspen), 3 types of willow, ash and sycamore.

I'm not sure that a half acre will be enough to keep the stove going. My current plan is for a 10 or so year rotation with about 250-300 trees planted per year, about 2m apart.

An important issue when burning the likes of spruce is there is more resin in the wood and this leads to a sootier chimney that will need more cleaning than say burning ash. When burning wood the chimney will, in general, need to be cleaned more often than say if burning coal.

reilig

Oldtree wrote: »

When burning wood the chimney will, in general, need to be cleaned more often than say if burning coal.

We won a few bags of coal in a draw last winter and when we burned it, it was a mess. We were cleaning out the range nearly every week. We're burning wood - ash, willow and spruce, at the moment and it's a lovely clean fuel. Very little soot - what we're burning has been dried for 24 months, and the ash pan only needs emptying every 4th day compares to every day with coal or turf.

wayoutwest

Sitka Spruce [kiln dried,or at least two summers air dried] is an excellent firewood for a stove and its readily available. It pops and spits a bit so you do need a good fireguard using in an open fire. It burns nice and hot, so works best in a stove,where you can control the air intake.I burn only wood - two thirds spruce and one third hardwoods....there are times when I'm burning 100% spruce.
Ash would be better, in that there is less drying time/ more heat from the same volume of fuel, but with the Ash Dieback that has arrived - I don't think I would risk planting any at this time. With Spruce, I think that you would have to wait 10 or 15 years before extracting the first 'thinnings'.

Dec the trucker

Oldtree when you say your own seedlings do you mean clippings from your trees? I'm in the process of reclaiming my rocky field and was going to leave a section of it to plant. Thanks for the info folks.

manjou

Have a stove and burn whatever timber has fallen on farm.Different timber burns at different rates spruce burns quicker but if you close it down it gives of good heat.The thing is spruce grows quicker so it may burn quicker but you will have more of it to burn so an acre of ground will produce the same heat or more from spruce than ash over a period of time my theory anyway.The secret is to cut it well in advance and let it season and dry for at least 12 months before use.

Oldtree

reilig wrote: »

We won a few bags of coal in a draw last winter and when we burned it, it was a mess. We were cleaning out the range nearly every week. We're burning wood - ash, willow and spruce, at the moment and it's a lovely clean fuel. Very little soot - what we're burning has been dried for 24 months, and the ash pan only needs emptying every 4th day compares to every day with coal or turf.

it was the flue I was talking about, but may sit happily corrected.

Oldtree

Dec the trucker wrote: »

Oldtree when you say your own seedlings do you mean clippings from your trees? I'm in the process of reclaiming my rocky field and was going to leave a section of it to plant. Thanks for the info folks.

Actual ash and sycamore seedlings from my own wood, not clippings.
have used willow cuttings but small ones get their leaves eaten by slugs as I put directly into meadow and do not kill off grass, and am trying 2 foot long cuttings this year thanks to advice from a contributer here.
I also plant out rooting willow cuttings done in a maintained bed for a year or two beforehand.

Oldtree

manjou wrote: »

Have a stove and burn whatever timber has fallen on farm.Different timber burns at different rates spruce burns quicker but if you close it down it gives of good heat.The thing is spruce grows quicker so it may burn quicker but you will have more of it to burn so an acre of ground will produce the same heat or more from spruce than ash over a period of time my theory anyway.The secret is to cut it well in advance and let it season and dry for at least 12 months before use.

Only thing for me is you have to replant spruce when you cut it down.
poplar and willow regrow from the stumps, probably quicker than before as a large established root system exists already.

wayoutwest

Yer right there Oldtree, I've got through 8 cubic metres of year dried Sally logs this winter[ran out of spruce] - not bad firewood, it just needs an extra bit o' kindling to get it going and not to be worrying about the very loud gunshot sounds occasionally coming from burner ....luckily I hav'nt got any nervous pets/children.
If O.P does go for softwood - he could plant Larch [prettier tree[I think] .Does anyone have any expereance of burning well seasoned Larch[in a stove]compared to burning well seasoned Spruce?
Also,which [out of the two]would be the fastest growing, and suffer the least problems [diseases etc].If one was to plant softwoods specifically for firewood, I wonder what would be the ultimate species to go with, considering quality of fuel/speed of growth/ecological benefits.

locky76

Dec the trucker wrote: »

can anyone tell me is spruce or popular any good when seasoned for an insert stove? i have about an a half acre to spare in a low side of a field and was thinking of planting trees for future fuel. buying split ash lately but would prefer to grow my own.

Spruce, spruce, spruce- any plantation for fuel will take a while to establish but if you can wait an extra few years spruce is the only way to go, it's a bullet proof species, has been tried and tested in Irish conditions and looks great as it's maturing and when it's matured.
It'll produce 25m per hectare per annum and once you get the rotation going (i.e. having the facilities to store your annual requirement for 18 months) you'll be in clover.
A lorry load or two will tied you over until the plantation is established...
I'vce a mate who bought a 1970's house which has quite a sizeable amount of spruce (>200) planted along the boundaries and three or four trees fulfilles his annual requirement now
It mightn't be any harm to plant a bit of larch on a 70/30 split for some bio-diversity...
I've been burning it for the past three years (and supplying family and friends) and I can't fault it

wayoutwest

locky 76 -How can you get 25 tonne per hectare per annum?. Are you saying to plant a hectare of spruce every year and that will produce a lorryload of logs every year[after 30 or 30 years growing]?

locky76

The yield class for spruce on a suitable site will be around 20 to 25, i.e. 1 hectare will increase in volume by between 20 to 25 cubic metres per annum...

wayoutwest wrote: »

locky 76 -How can you get 25 tonne per hectare per annum?. Are you saying to plant a hectare of spruce every year and that will produce a lorryload of logs every year[after 30 or 30 years growing]?

Oldtree

locky76 wrote: »

The yield class for spruce on a suitable site will be around 20 to 25, i.e. 1 hectare will increase in volume by between 20 to 25 cubic metres per annum...

not if it is cut down every 10 years on a short rotation. I think that the yield class is for the complete rotation of the crop, over 40 years.

Oldtree

wayoutwest wrote: »

Yer right there Oldtree, I've got through 8 cubic metres of year dried Sally logs this winter[ran out of spruce] - not bad firewood, it just needs an extra bit o' kindling to get it going and not to be worrying about the very loud gunshot sounds occasionally coming from burner ....luckily I hav'nt got any nervous pets/children.
If O.P does go for softwood - he could plant Larch [prettier tree[I think] .Does anyone have any expereance of burning well seasoned Larch[in a stove]compared to burning well seasoned Spruce?
Also,which [out of the two]would be the fastest growing, and suffer the least problems [diseases etc].If one was to plant softwoods specifically for firewood, I wonder what would be the ultimate species to go with, considering quality of fuel/speed of growth/ecological benefits.

Willow is there at the top for ecological benefits. Dosnt acidify the soil, early source of nectar for bees, grows fast and regrows from cut stumps. cant beat it really, except for my lovely ash and the way she burns.
Always plant a few varities to avoid any pest doing ya in.

Dec the trucker

I am thinking eucalyptus is the way to go. They grow for sport and some species coppice nicely too. Great heat from them. Has any of ye tried growing them? He'll of a lot faster than ash or spruce to grow.

locky76

Oldtree wrote: »

not if it is cut down every 10 years on a short rotation. I think that the yield class is for the complete rotation of the crop, over 40 years.

Leave it as long as you can before the first bit of cutting, only cut a small % each year, you'll be cutting the first planted crop for 50+ years if managed correctly- with a half acre you're looking at buying in timber anyway.
I don't see the benefit of willow, hazel etc on short rotations- you end up with small diameter timber etc. and it's not as proven long term in Irish conditions as spruce is...
Spruce will produce a yield class of 20+ on any sort of reasonable soil

reilig

Oldtree wrote: »

Willow is there at the top for ecological benefits. Dosnt acidify the soil, early source of nectar for bees, grows fast and regrows from cut stumps. cant beat it really, except for my lovely ash and the way she burns.
Always plant a few varities to avoid any pest doing ya in.

+1

My experience of willow is that it burns far longer than spruce. Once you dry it properly, it's a great fuel. It's easy to establish. Around here, we replant cuttings of native willow and have little problems with snails eating it.

Ash is the best, there's no doubt, but willow grows at twice the rate and does not butn for 50% less than ash, so it is a winner!

Squiggle

Dec the trucker wrote: »

I am thinking eucalyptus is the way to go. They grow for sport and some species coppice nicely too. Great heat from them. Has any of ye tried growing them? He'll of a lot faster than ash or spruce to grow.

I'm thinking eucalyptus too. Double the yield of willow and apparently very easy to split. I'm thinking of sowing a mixture of gunni, which is extremely fast growing and coppices well and dalrympleana, which coppices better is vigorous and has great form.

tabby aspreme

Was some eucalyptus damaged with the prolonged frosts in 2010 / 2011.

Oldtree

Eucalyptus would be very risky here in Mayo, seen lots of them dead.

Dec the trucker

thanks lads for all the info.ye are giving me a lot to think about. sort of thinking a mix of ash spruce and larch. eucalyptus might be a bit risky with the winters we are getting past few years.

wayoutwest

i remember reading [in a past F.F thread on eucalyptus] that -12 degrees was the point that killed the trees during the last two frozen winters that we had.I have seen some trees[N.W] that were killed during that time.
Apparently, its an excellent firewood and the growth levels are unmatched but the downside is that it really sucks the life out of the soil[as well as water] to the point that fertilliizer is needed between felling and re-planting.It also produces a chemical that prevents other species growing up around it - so better for block, rather than mixed planting?

I've burned Larch in the past,and if I remember correctly, it was slightly hotter than Spruce, but popped and spat a little bit more.

Squiggle

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Was some eucalyptus damaged with the prolonged frosts in 2010 / 2011.

Oldtree wrote: »

Eucalyptus would be very risky here in Mayo, seen lots of them dead.

Frost can be a problem alright if the temperature goes into double digits below zero though I'm in the south east which is not as problematic frost wise as some more northern/inland parts. There are so many varieties of eucalyptus that it's a question of striking a balance between suitability regarding frost tolerance, ability to coppice and vigorousness. The JFK arboritum has successfully grown nitens for years but they don't coppice well which is not much use unless you have any amount of space to grow the trees. Gunni is a very rapid grower but on coppicing you get multi co- dominant stems which is not ideal because of smaller diameter wood. A natural characteristic of dalrympleana is one or two dominant stems per stump after cutting back, the same is true for the closely related rubida though it's yield potential is unclear. I'm leaning towards dalrympleana and gunni at this stage but I've more research to do !

Oldtree

Euc is easy to split as it is not as dense as say willow. easier to split but you would have to split more and it strikes me that you would also have to burn more to get the same heat output, so more carrying too.

It would be an interesting exercise to compare the end wood weight produced to the final calorific value between euc and willow on a short rotation.

The griselina was another example of what can happen to more sensitive plants here, the bark was frozen over a 2 night period of very cold cold but then temperatures suddenly warmed up the following day and the frozen bark just exploded off the plants and ringbarked them. the were not designed to cope with this kind of temperature change.

All I can say is that it need one night of serious cold or a cold hot change in temp and your wood is gone. we are going to get more weather of a similar nature in the future so why take the risk?

You might like this which is unbelievable, look at the size of the people:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81821162

Squiggle

Food for thought there Oldtree. What type of Willow is most suitable for short rotation coppicing and where can it be sourced?

El Kabong!

Hi squiggle.... I used a 5 mix hybrid willow and get it from Mammoth Willow in the UK.

Squiggle

Found this article from Teagasc on best practice for short rotation coppicing of willow. Future Forests, whom I have bought hedging from in the past , and am happy to recommend, also sell un-rooted willow cuttings.

Qualitymark

As I understand it, softwoods like any of the piney stuff are very resinous. They burn hot but fast, and they coat the chimney with their discharge. The best woods to burn are things like beech and ash, well dried. (If they're not dried, they'll also coat the chimney.)

$kilkenny

To be honest, save yourself alot of money and hassle and just use softwoods... Very well dried, I have about 4 tonne of stuff and hopefully alot more soon drying in this weather, got a few fresh lenghts about 2 months ago and honestly id say they would burn with a crack of a match.
Unfortunatly for me with exams it will be 2 weeks time before I can get it all chopped and sheded for next years season, softwood will be and are alot easier to get and cheaper, a load of hardwood from coillte these days is about 1800, a load of of softwood is 1200 or so these days.
All I ever burn or sold is softwood, naturally air dried down to around 15 maybe 20 percent, cant get hardwood, dont want it either.