Do you have a history?

Wade in the Sea

A rather clever Spanish philospher in the 20th Century by the name of Santayana once said ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

The Labour Party are proposing that History be made no longer compulsory for post primary students while the Gaelic Language spoken by a minority in this country remains at the core of Education?

I smell a rat! Socialists are notorious for revisionism, but you wouldn't know unless you've studied history....

So what's more important - speaking a language that belongs in History or knowing that it once existed?

The Backwards Man

I'm sayin nuttin.

Rastadoyle

roy may have a hist ye

admiralofthefleet

ive a large histroy in the garden shed

endacl

Nil a fhios agam.

Death and Taxes

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

A rather clever Spanish philospher in the 20th Century by the name of Santayana once said ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

The Labour Party are proposing that History be made no longer compulsory for post primary students while the Gaelic Language spoken by a minority in this country remains at the core of Education?

I smell a rat! Socialists are notorious for revisionism, but you wouldn't know unless you've studied history....

So what's more important - speaking a language that belongs in History or knowing that it once existed?

My apologies but could please explain your apparent link between the Irish Labour Party and Socialism? It is akin to comparing sewarge to champagne!

Arcsin

Is maith liom caca milis.

pragmatic1

Geography would have been a much better contender to get downsized.

pragmatic1

Arcsin wrote: »

Is maith liom caca milis.

Is maith leatsa cac.

Arcsin

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Is maith leatsa cac.

An bhfuil cead agam dul go dti an leitreais? Is maith liom cac.

endacl

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Geography would have been a much better contender to get downsized.

Indeed. There's far too much of the stuff. Can't walk out the front door without tripping up over bloody geography. History's handy to avoid. Its always behind you...

pragmatic1

Arcsin wrote: »

An bhfuil cead agam dul go dti an leitreais? Is maith liom cac.

NIL :mad:

The Backwards Man

Ta me balls

SEPT 23 1989

Labour will be buried in the next election:mad:

Frank Black

Our current expensive education system could be effectively replaced by an afternoon showing children how to use google.
We can then use the kids current years of primary and secondary education (ages 4 to 17) by creating a cheap labour force to allow us compete with the Eastern European and Chinese manufacturing industries.
Sure the teachers will lose their jobs, but those guys are always complaining anyway. It's a win-win for Ireland.

Insect Overlord

Is the OP pissed off about Gaeilge?
Or is this a rant about sly political actions?

I can't tell which point they're trying to make at all.

admiralofthefleet

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Labour will be buried in the next election:mad:

they will be buried before that, the local elections are next year. im looking forward to seeing fat rabbite thrown out of politics

Uriel.

why can't we have both?

aaronjumper

Uriel. wrote: »

why can't we have both?

No recession in your house! :pac:

ian87

I normally delete mine. I do be looking at some shocking stuff.

Wade in the Sea

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Is the OP pissed off about Gaeilge?
Or is this a rant about sly political actions?

I can't tell which point they're trying to make at all.

A bit of both really. If you want to focus on what Irish Children of today will NEED in the future you can argue the case for Maths, English, Science or even a main stream European language, but how can anyone say in the same breath that the Irish Language reinforces your Irishness, but knowing how you came to be Irish does not?

Iwasfrozen

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

A rather clever Spanish philospher in the 20th Century by the name of Santayana once said ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

The Labour Party are proposing that History be made no longer compulsory for post primary students while the Gaelic Language spoken by a minority in this country remains at the core of Education?

I smell a rat! Socialists are notorious for revisionism, but you wouldn't know unless you've studied history....

So what's more important - speaking a language that belongs in History or knowing that it once existed?

History was never compulsory for post primary students?

Legs.Eleven

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

History was never compulsory for post primary students?

Up till the Junior Cert is was, was it not?

Wade in the Sea

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

History was never compulsory for post primary students?

It was/is compulsory upto the Junior Cert.

Iwasfrozen

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

It was/is compulsory upto the Junior Cert.

No? I didn't do it for the Junior Cert?

pastorbarrett

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

Socialists are notorious for revisionism, but you wouldn't know unless you've studied history....

Nevermind socialism, history as subject matter is the greatest exercise in revisionism.

Iwasfrozen

meridiangroup wrote: »

Nevermind socialism, history as subject matter is the greatest exercise in revisionism.

This, history in this country is very biased.

Wade in the Sea

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No? I didn't do it for the Junior Cert?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-junior-cert-1.559492

kilkenny12

Another "anti Irish language" thread..

History always repeats itself.
Irish is great craic.
If ya want to bash a useless subject, get rid of art.

joebloggs32

There's no future in history.

Corkfeen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

This, history in this country is very biased.

Erm..... History classes in secondary education tends to be biased in most countries. It's not unique to Ireland.

Legs.Eleven

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No? I didn't do it for the Junior Cert?

Eh.....maybe you didn't hear about the exam?

Iwasfrozen

Corkfeen wrote: »

Erm..... History classes in secondary education tends to be biased in most countries. It's not unique to Ireland.

Yeah but we can't change the history lessons offered in other countries.

Iwasfrozen

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Eh.....maybe you didn't hear about the exam?

Pretty sure I would have.

Prodigious

Corkfeen wrote: »

Erm..... History classes in secondary education tends to be biased in most countries. It's not unique to Ireland.

Ah, grand so.

Legs.Eleven

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Pretty sure I would have.

Not being smart but twas compulsory in my day (1822)

joebloggs32

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Up till the Junior Cert is was, was it not?

it was up to the individual school to decide

Legs.Eleven

joebloggs32 wrote: »

it was up to the individual school to decide

You sure?

Gran Hermano

My history is here http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?user=91412&sort=newest

Corkfeen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yeah but we can't change the history lessons offered in other countries.

I agree that the manner in which it is taught is awful. I'd prefer that students didn't simply learn off dates and events but instead learnt of how there are numerous different interpretations of most historical events so that students can weigh up the merits of the arguments. It would benefit them in terms of critical thinking at the very least. What changes would you propose?

joebloggs32

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You sure?

ya. I'm a history teacher

Iwasfrozen

Corkfeen wrote: »

I agree that the manner in which it is taught is awful. I'd prefer that students didn't simply learn off dates and events but instead learnt of how there are numerous different interpretations of most historical events so that students can weigh up the merits of the arguments. It would benefit them in terms of critical thinking at the very least. What changes would you propose?

I'd prefer a more balanced view of the world. At the moment history tends to be very hiberno-centric and focused on the big bad English invading poor defenseless Ireland. It's very black and white and I'd rather they thought more about the root causes of colonialism and it's effects on the wider world scale. Analyze why things happened instead of just saying they did.

Wade in the Sea

kilkenny12 wrote: »

Another "anti Irish language" thread..

History always repeats itself.
Irish is great craic.
If ya want to bash a useless subject, get rid of art.

First off - I am not anti Irish/Gaelic. Irish has a use, but better as a 3rd level Arts subject. My point is how can you choose to retain Irish as a compulsory subject but reject History?

You make my point. Only those who do not learn from history repeat it. There are rediculously identical events taking place today that took place in the 1920s ands 30s in Europe. And only a few can see it. The next step in the absence of strong leadership will be auto-cratic systems that will promise and in the short term, deliver solutions but at the expense of others. But the Labour party want our children focused on a language spoken less widely than Clingon!

Cody Pomeray

Corkfeen wrote: »

I agree that the manner in which it is taught is awful. I'd prefer that students didn't simply learn off dates and events but instead learnt of how there are numerous different interpretations of most historical events so that students can weigh up the merits of the arguments.

If you did LC history since 2005 (?) when the new curriculum came in you'll know that it has changed dramatically from repeating dates.

Even before this new curriculum, the old exam was something like 4 essays and a research topic, so I'm not even sure when history was last " learning off dates and events".

You really have to know your stuff and be able to make coherent points for the history course. I'd be satisfied that anyone getting an A or a high B in history would feel comfortable studying it at University.

Also, yes history is not compulsory. It was an option since 1st year in my school anyway....

dxhound2005

joebloggs32 wrote: »

it was up to the individual school to decide

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You sure?

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

First off - I am not anti Irish/Gaelic. Irish has a use, but better as a 3rd level Arts subject. My point is how can you choose to retain Irish as a compulsory subject but reject History?

You make my point. Only those who do not learn from history repeat it. There are rediculously identical events taking place today that took place in the 1920s ands 30s in Europe. And only a few can see it. The next step in the absence of strong leadership will be auto-cratic systems that will promise and in the short term, deliver solutions but at the expense of others. But the Labour party want our children focused on a language spoken less widely than Clingon!

You are not learning from the history of this thread. History is not a compulsory subject either on the Junior or Senior cycle. But like geography which is also not compulsory I expect that most schools will teach it. So whatever rat you are smelling is somewhat contrived I think.

Wade in the Sea

Corkfeen wrote: »

I agree that the manner in which it is taught is awful. I'd prefer that students didn't simply learn off dates and events but instead learnt of how there are numerous different interpretations of most historical events so that students can weigh up the merits of the arguments. It would benefit them in terms of critical thinking at the very least. What changes would you propose?

History is about why not what

Damn you Irish times for making that sound cliche!!!!!!

Corkfeen

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

If you did LC history since 2005 (?) when the new curriculum came in you'll know that it has changed dramatically from repeating dates.

Even before this new curriculum, the old exam was something like 4 essays and a research topic, so I'm not even sure when history was last " learning off dates and events".

You really have to know your stuff and be able to make coherent points for the history course. I'd be satisfied that anyone getting an A or a high B in history would feel comfortable studying it at University.

Also, yes history is not compulsory. It was an option since 1st year in my school anyway....

I actually only got as far as Junior Cert history, I am currently finishing my history undergrad though.:pac: I have found that many people in my course who had studied Leaving Cert history, struggled with adapting the way in which they analysed it. It tends to be one of the major complaints of history lecturers.

tdv123

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yeah but we can't change the history lessons offered in other countries.

Why not?

Legs.Eleven

joebloggs32 wrote: »

ya. I'm a history teacher

Oh. Is it compulsory at honours level or am I talking like an auld one like she would the ha'penny and penny farthing?

Cody Pomeray

Corkfeen wrote: »

I actually only got as far as Junior Cert history, I am currently finishing my history undergrad though.:pac: I have found that many people in my course who had studied Leaving Cert history, struggled with adapting the way in which they analysed it. It tends to be one of the major complaints of history lecturers.

I can't imagine why, my understanding is the course was specifically designed to construct a natural lead-in to third level programmes.

It has a large research component and a big emphasis on critical awareness and making balanced judgement calls.

I presumed everyone was very happy with the syllabus. Not sure how someone would, or should, go about improving it.

Skid X

There was an After Hours thread recently where someone (too young to remember) said that the Troubles in Northern Ireland, weren't that bad, and there weren't any bombs as bad as the one in Boston recently.

If ever there was evidence that History should be compulsory, that was it.