Long term implications of fodder shortage

crusher000

I ran a thread here last week about the crisis of fodder shortage and some wise guys even posted smart answers about selling stock etc. But I do believe that the severity of the situation will only truly come to light in the next year or two. Milk yields will be seriously effected and animals that should be maturing or the quality of meat could be effected by the rationing of fodder now. Will we see a shortage of beef/milk thus causing an increase in price next year and beyond ?

Are my concerns un founded as I'm not an expert on the subject or is there a genuine cause for concern on the topics raised above ? Is the Governent/IFA treating the whole matter as seriously as they should ? Love to hear your sincere thoughts on the matter.

whelan1

dont mention "ifa":D

Dampintheattic

crusher000 wrote: »

I ran a thread here last week about the crisis of fodder shortage and some wise guys even posted smart answers about selling stock etc. But I do believe that the severity of the situation will only truly come to light in the next year or two. Milk yields will be seriously effected and animals that should be maturing or the quality of meat could be effected by the rationing of fodder now. Will we see a shortage of beef/milk thus causing an increase in price next year and beyond ?

Are my concerns un founded as I'm not an expert on the subject or is there a genuine cause for concern on the topics raised above ? Is the Governent/IFA treating the whole matter as seriously as they should ? Love to hear your sincere thoughts on the matter.

I'm stocking the freezer up with rabbits and the likes already. There won't be e bit of red meat to be got in a years time:eek:

Farmer Pudsey

Dampintheattic wrote: »

I'm stocking the freezer up with rabbits and the likes already. There won't be e bit of red meat to be got in a years time:eek:

Rabbit meat is white like chicken

djmc

I think cattle will get scarce a lot of cull cows gone to factory silage ground fed lads will be reducing stock during this year as well if weather doesn't get very good as there won't be any second cuts also most are in a bad way for money

grazeaway

crusher000 wrote: »

I ran a thread here last week about the crisis of fodder shortage and some wise guys even posted smart answers about selling stock etc. But I do believe that the severity of the situation will only truly come to light in the next year or two. Milk yields will be seriously effected and animals that should be maturing or the quality of meat could be effected by the rationing of fodder now. Will we see a shortage of beef/milk thus causing an increase in price next year and beyond ?

Are my concerns un founded as I'm not an expert on the subject or is there a genuine cause for concern on the topics raised above ? Is the Governent/IFA treating the whole matter as seriously as they should ? Love to hear your sincere thoughts on the matter.

i reckon your spot on. i reckon that a lot of the lads making the smart comments were those running finishing or cycle systems. Those of us that are trying suckler or dairy herds need to have sufficent stock on the farm to ensure we have enough replacments and are reaching our ouptut targets.

because so many animals have been sold before time or require more work to get to finishing stage the naturl raise, storea nd finsih cycles are out of whack. i do think that ther will be a shortage of beef by teh end of this year and into early next year as the animals for then wont be around. similarly for people tyrign buil dup dairy herds and have had to cull they will be short stock too.

as for the fodder shortage almost every farm has now exhausted its buffer stock (fed the last of my silage last night), what can be saved this summer will very much set teh targets for what can be kept next winter. If we have another crap summer like last year then there will be a reduction in animals kept next year an there will be a surge of selling next oct/nov as farmers may not have enough fodder to survive the winter and will not be in a postion to fund buying in fodder over the winter.

pakalasa

There's no wiggle room for anything to go wrong now. We need a good summer, even a fair one will cause problems if we get an early or late winter. We do export 80% of our beef so what happens in Ireland has no effect on factory prices. Worldwide demand / supply are the main drivers of price. Farmers earnings are a different story, what with banks unwilling to lend and everything.

crusher000

It's fair to say that the Irish consumer is oblivious to this impact. Alex Ferguson retiring can get more coverage on our papers than the prospect of some very difficult times ahead. I only own three ponies and always relied on the farmer with the couple of bails left after the winter to keep me going through the summer. I have very little grass for them more of a run. Got bails organised by local IFA last week and most the farmers I purchase hay off every year were queing for hay as well.

F.D

Long term i would say it will take farmers years to claw back what ever they have pumped in just to make it through the fodder crisis,
and hopefully it wont put any to the road
In reality the government planted the expansion seed but made no provisions of how to achieve this,
If you ask me you shouldn't expect anything out of them or the IFA and you wont be surprised, all they do is firefight in a crisis
where as they should be on the look out for it coming and try and advise a way to prevent it
I think farmers will have to sit down and use some more of there common sense and science to farm in the future and not believe all the speil been pushed down there neck by different groups, nor just do the same routine as they have done for years,

kevthegaff

would it not make more sense to produce maize, beet, corn, soya here for our own dairy/beef/suckler farmers than exporting mainly barley, wheat. What is the percentage of corn exported in this country?

Timmaay

Interesting piece in the IFJ rag today about the UK suppliers being unhappy at us Irish for dumping cheap cheese over there and dropping the price. Seems crazy that a country only 100miles away can produce it so much cheaper, despite the Irish farmers having gone through probably the most expensive combination of summer/winter and spring in record.

Just on the long term impact of fodder shortage, avoided any sort of repeat of this spring where cattle were left staving due to the national shortage, should some one of the national bodies not be doing a detailed enough survey on how much fodder actually gets produced this summer, and have measures in place early if there is going to be a definite shortfall. There appeared to be nothing of the sort this year, other than recommendations from the likes of Teagasc that if you were short during the winter then to do something about it then, the national opinion back then seemed to just hinge all on banking on an early spring which we obviously didn't get!

Timmaay

kevthegaff wrote: »

would it not make more sense to produce maize, beet, corn, soya here for our own dairy/beef/suckler farmers than exporting mainly barley, wheat. What is the percentage of corn exported in this country?

It probably would make more sense to produce less of these crops that grow better in warmer climates, and more grassland instead, but try telling your local tillageman to give up his land for the sake of the national interest :P

F.D

kevthegaff wrote: »

would it not make more sense to produce maize, beet, corn, soya here for our own dairy/beef/suckler farmers than exporting mainly barley, wheat. What is the percentage of corn exported in this country?

As with most things here the inputs are probably too high compared to importing all these feedstuffs
Look at all the green houses in holland
how is it not viable for us to grow our own veg etc vs importing it from there

grazeaway

kevthegaff wrote: »

would it not make more sense to produce maize, beet, corn, soya here for our own dairy/beef/suckler farmers than exporting mainly barley, wheat. What is the percentage of corn exported in this country?

not as straight forward as that. maize is a great crop but is very reliant of the land it is grown on and has got an awful battering from the cold wet summers of late. so cant be grown every where on the island, also it needs to balanced out with other fodder in a diet.

beet though not as fickle as maize it also cant be grown every where and also need a lot of work to till the ground and harvest it too. much of the barley we grow is split between malting and feeding. similary with the wheat and oat, most of it produced in ireland is exported for animal feed while we have to import wheat for bread making. I dont think we can even grow soya here.

Jonblack

Dampintheattic wrote: »

I'm stocking the freezer up with rabbits and the likes already. There won't be e bit of red meat to be got in a years time:eek:

What about the two veg . At present there is a shortage of feed for our animals, next it will be us. Prospects not looking good for my veg garden. Wash out last year , nothing plant yet this year.

bob charles

kevthegaff wrote: »

would it not make more sense to produce maize, beet, corn, soya here for our own dairy/beef/suckler farmers than exporting mainly barley, wheat. What is the percentage of corn exported in this country?

because there is a major comparative advantage for us to import these crops excluding beet. WE export little or none of our crops and we are able to grow one of the highest yielding wheat crops in the world with our climate. Its great to see the milk should take over the island brigade out in force

rancher

Timmaay wrote: »

It probably would make more sense to produce less of these crops that grow better in warmer climates, and more grassland instead, but try telling your local tillageman to give up his land for the sake of the national interest :P

Our tillage farmers would be among the best in the world, wouldn't they?. also growing grain is a more efficient usage of land than beef/lamb for feeding the world population

rancher

bob charles wrote: »

because there is a major comparative advantage for us to import these crops excluding beet. WE export little or none of our crops and we are able to grow one of the highest yielding wheat crops in the world with our climate. Its great to see the milk should take over the island brigade out in force

Do you not think that the outlook is bleak for drystock farmers when their SFP is cut
Milk or large scale tillage looks to be the only sustainable options

Tipp Man

There are 2 major problems as far i see it

1) the weather was unprecidantly bad from the 1st June last year straight through until the very last week of April. There was a huge amount of fodder consumed before the winter started (a couple of weeks earlier than it should) coupled with such a late spring meant that the whole country has consumed an exceptionally high level of feed. You would have to imagine that the perfect storm of events won't happen again in quite a while. If it does happen again in the near future then it may be time to reassess our feeding/stocking needs at farm level

2) farmers are as much to blame as anybody by trying to push things to the maximum and beyond - having too high stocking rates, counting a 12 week winter as a normal winter etc etc - and for what exactly? So they can say they are more like NZ farmers?

Each farmer needs to sit down and see what he can produce in a normal/average year and stock his farm (fodder also) accordingly. This is farm specific as every farm is different.

The worst thing that people could do now is have a mad panic this year culling stock, making a huge amount of silage etc etc. Thats were the real money will be lost

rancher

Tipp Man wrote: »

There are 2 major problems as far i see it

1) the weather was unprecidantly bad from the 1st June last year straight through until the very last week of April. There was a huge amount of fodder consumed before the winter started (a couple of weeks earlier than it should) coupled with such a late spring meant that the whole country has consumed an exceptionally high level of feed. You would have to imagine that the perfect storm of events won't happen again in quite a while. If it does happen again in the near future then it may be time to reassess our feeding/stocking needs at farm level

2) farmers are as much to blame as anybody by trying to push things to the maximum and beyond - having too high stocking rates, counting a 12 week winter as a normal winter etc etc - and for what exactly? So they can say they are more like NZ farmers?

Each farmer needs to sit down and see what he can produce in a normal/average year and stock his farm (fodder also) accordingly. This is farm specific as every farm is different.

The worst thing that people could do now is have a mad panic this year culling stock, making a huge amount of silage etc etc. Thats were the real money will be lost

Very true, no one led farmers into this only themselves, hopefully they will learn from this and when they come to january and find they have six weeks fodder available,they will take remedial action....blaming some one for not seeing a crisis coming when they didn't see it themselves is not the answer.....

KatyMac

After last night's rain my fields are seriously soggy yet again. Haven't been able to drive on half the farm to put fert out yet. And there is an awful lot of moss - I've got high sulphur fert to put out in the hope it will help. This is what is going to decide what stock I keep for the winter not anyone in teagasc/ifa or whatever.

Username John

Timmaay wrote: »

Just on the long term impact of fodder shortage, avoided any sort of repeat of this spring where cattle were left staving due to the national shortage, should some one of the national bodies not be doing a detailed enough survey on how much fodder actually gets produced this summer, and have measures in place early if there is going to be a definite shortfall. There appeared to be nothing of the sort this year, other than recommendations from the likes of Teagasc that if you were short during the winter then to do something about it then, the national opinion back then seemed to just hinge all on banking on an early spring which we obviously didn't get!

Hi Timmay,

No offensive, but what would this get us?

A report, saying X thousand bales / tones of silage made in 2013... What will this do?

My fear is if everyone screams "someone should have seen it coming, someone should have done something" all that will happen is the dept will come in, and do something...

The something might be pretty blunt, they may say "right farmers, ye need to have fodder for X weeks in each of the 4 regions, the same as ye have to have storage facilities... and if ye dont... oh, then ye are obviously planning to starve yer animals.. immediate SFP cut / fine"

Sure from a dept view, that'd be perfect... fodder crisis sorted, more lads kept busy, maybe save a few quid in SFP...

Tipp Man

Username John wrote: »

Hi Timmay,

No offensive, but what would this get us?

A report, saying X thousand bales / tones of silage made in 2013... What will this do?

My fear is if everyone screams "someone should have seen it coming, someone should have done something" all that will happen is the dept will come in, and do something...

The something might be pretty blunt, they may say "right farmers, ye need to have fodder for X weeks in each of the 4 regions, the same as ye have to have storage facilities... and if ye dont... oh, then ye are obviously planning to starve yer animals.. immediate SFP cut / fine"

Sure from a dept view, that'd be perfect... fodder crisis sorted, more lads kept busy, maybe save a few quid in SFP...

Your right - it would be pure madness and is exactly the kind of madness that we don't want to see happen

Farmers need to step up to the plate and take care of their own business

i have to say that i thought the Coops importing fodder was pretty good and is definately something that can be worked on in the future

Farmer Pudsey

It might seem harsh but a lot of lads do not help themselves. Lads in the west had genuine issues however some I know were expecting an early spring like last year.

How many have a fodder reserve or even consider what they do in a situtation like this. I have no reserve left now. Rang a fella I get straw off every now and again and ordered a load( 20ish bales) after harvest might even take two depending on price but one will sort most issue's.

How many farmers will try to wait for hay instead of cutting silage early mid june and getting a second cut off some of the land. How many will put out extra fertlizer to grow more grass. How many will spray fields for weeds to improve quality, if you have you own sprayer it costs about 10-20 euro/acre to give it a good clean for Docks etc.

In January if short of silage how many started feeding a bit of ration and saving silage. The government or the co-op cannot manage your farm it is up yo you.

kowtow

Tipp Man wrote: »

Your right - it would be pure madness and is exactly the kind of madness that we don't want to see happen

Farmers need to step up to the plate and take care of their own business

i have to say that i thought the Coops importing fodder was pretty good and is definately something that can be worked on in the future

Actually it's one of the great reasons for encouraging co-ops to stay small, and stay focussed on serving the farming community as opposed to moving up the chain into value add / processing and distribution. As long as they are simply a "farmers collective" the option remains for the government to provide emergency credit support to them, and by extension to the farming community.

When co-ops become principles in food processing and distribution, however, and make their profits in many markets, it would worry me that they would't be such a valid conduit for government support.

delaval

KatyMac wrote: »

After last night's rain my fields are seriously soggy yet again. Haven't been able to drive on half the farm to put fert out yet. And there is an awful lot of moss - I've got high sulphur fert to put out in the hope it will help. This is what is going to decide what stock I keep for the winter not anyone in teagasc/ifa or whatever.

Post of the day

rancher

Tipp Man wrote: »

Your right - it would be pure madness and is exactly the kind of madness that we don't want to see happen

Farmers need to step up to the plate and take care of their own business

i have to say that i thought the Coops importing fodder was pretty good and is definately something that can be worked on in the future

I'd imagine that once all the various bodies withdraw their subsidies, it will no longer be economic

Dampintheattic

rancher wrote: »

Do you not think that the outlook is bleak for drystock farmers when their SFP is cut
Milk or large scale tillage looks to be the only sustainable options

Outlook for dry stock has been bleak for a decade, even with SFP!

"That's" why SFP needs to be redistributed to balance out income across sectors and farm size, etc!

BIG, farmers in the most profitable sectors, generally farming in the best land, and in the better climate areas of the country, do not need income support as much as dry stock and suckler farmers, in small fragmented farms, hanging on by their nails, on marginal land, with the Atlantic Ocean driving near constant rain on their backs!

Do you agree?

bbam

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Outlook for dry stock has been bleak for a decade, even with SFP!

"That's" why SFP needs to be redistributed to balance out income across sectors and farm size, etc!

BIG, farmers in the most profitable sectors, generally farming in the best land, and in the better climate areas of the country, do not need income support as much as dry stock and suckler farmers, in small fragmented farms, hanging on by their nails, on marginal land, with the Atlantic Ocean driving near constant rain on their backs!

Do you agree?

I'm a long way from the Atlantic but no stranger to marginal land, don't fall into the old trap of thinking you need to be from the west to farm poor land and smal holdings.

If the SFP is going to remain I think there needs to be a decent classification of farming land in the country.
Beat out some of the office dwellers in the department and have a scoring system for the land in specific areas. The SFP could be redistributed based on that and a combination of activity over a two-three year system.

Regarding the fodder shortage lads need to farm their farms rather than being led round by the nose trying to achieve some notional stocking density.

I disagree with Ranchers comment above, there was plenty of encouragement to expand, expand, expand. Increase stocking densities to more profitable levels and generally try and emulate what the top 1/3 of farms were capable of.
It was at talks, in the papers and in the journal. Not enough emphasis on matching farming practice to the particular farm, and then building in a buffer for fodder.

We're not all farming in the Golden Vale so there's no point in lads going on trying to match farms there.

Timmaay

Username John wrote: »

Hi Timmay,

No offensive, but what would this get us?

A report, saying X thousand bales / tones of silage made in 2013... What will this do?

My fear is if everyone screams "someone should have seen it coming, someone should have done something" all that will happen is the dept will come in, and do something...

The something might be pretty blunt, they may say "right farmers, ye need to have fodder for X weeks in each of the 4 regions, the same as ye have to have storage facilities... and if ye dont... oh, then ye are obviously planning to starve yer animals.. immediate SFP cut / fine"

Sure from a dept view, that'd be perfect... fodder crisis sorted, more lads kept busy, maybe save a few quid in SFP...

Ha ok, I'm still too naive to see it from that point of view, which is the last thing we need!

rancher

bbam wrote: »

I'm a long way from the Atlantic but no stranger to marginal land, don't fall into the old trap of thinking you need to be from the west to farm poor land and smal holdings.

If the SFP is going to remain I think there needs to be a decent classification of farming land in the country.
Beat out some of the office dwellers in the department and have a scoring system for the land in specific areas. The SFP could be redistributed based on that and a combination of activity over a two-three year system.

Regarding the fodder shortage lads need to farm their farms rather than being led round by the nose trying to achieve some notional stocking density.

I disagree with Ranchers comment above, there was plenty of encouragement to expand, expand, expand. Increase stocking densities to more profitable levels and generally try and emulate what the top 1/3 of farms were capable of.
It was at talks, in the papers and in the journal. Not enough emphasis on matching farming practice to the particular farm, and then building in a buffer for fodder.

We're not all farming in the Golden Vale so there's no point in lads going on trying to match farms there.

And weren't we all taught how to measure silage pits, calculate tonnage, and fodder requirements of your stock. when farmers are being advised, it's taken for granted that you know that ,

mf240

You often find some of the best farmers in marginal areas, not saying having bad land makes you a good farmer but it sure as hell frightens the bad ones away.

Farmer Pudsey

On good land you can afford to make mistakes on marginal land you end up losing a load of money.

1chippy

Lads have to remember this has been a serious winter. How much buffer feed should i keep 2 months 3 months a spare years? Silage and meal are expensive and the cash reserves are not there within beef to hold a large buffer. There are very few businesses out there who can afford to hold double the inventory that they believe they will utilise. Farming does not have the backing to hold large reserves. The lowly stocked lads can shout about boys being overstocked and how they knew better and are great farmers. Then there are the lads like myself who realistically just got lucky by having extra feed. I know i'm going to get knocked for this but the lads out there who are pushing there farms to the last are the lads who we are learning from whether that be directly or indirectly. They are running their show to the tightest possable margins and should be commended for their efforts, not knocked at the first oppurtunity like now when a completly unprecedented year like the last one has passed. To get the most out of what we have we have to work that to its maximum capacity and that doesnt leave much room to tie up large volumes of capital in a just in case situation when the majority of farmers out there are just about surviving by the skin of their teeth.
Sorry rant over

bbam

rancher wrote: »

And weren't we all taught how to measure silage pits, calculate tonnage, and fodder requirements of your stock. when farmers are being advised, it's taken for granted that you know that ,

Dangerous to take things for granted.
Shown the country over by the sheer numbers of lads who found themselves over stocked without enough feed.
I'm not saying we're not responsible for ourown farms, just that some lads followed the bigger, bigger, better advice and found themselves in a real jam. Surely you can see this has happened.

delaval

bbam wrote: »

Dangerous to take things for granted.
Shown the country over by the sheer numbers of lads who found themselves over stocked without enough feed.
I'm not saying we're not responsible for ourown farms, just that some lads followed the bigger, bigger, better advice and found themselves in a real jam. Surely you can see this has happened.

In this area we noticed it was the usual suspects who got really badly caught and they are not the most heavily stocked ones.

Conmaicne Mara

Think the most astute comment made in all this debacle was one poster talking about his grandfathers saying, hay in the barn was like money in the bank.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. You can drive around on bald tires in the rain too, but eventually they'll bite you on the arse. Same thing in a weather dependent job, you have to plan for it, and you should plan for it.

No use in bitching about the government (broke), Teagasc (infallible), any farm organisation (self interested), or anyone else. We each farm our farms, the buck stops at your doors and mine.

freedominacup

kevthegaff wrote: »

would it not make more sense to produce maize, beet, corn, soya here for our own dairy/beef/suckler farmers than exporting mainly barley, wheat. What is the percentage of corn exported in this country?

As close to zero as makes no difference. And I'll grow some soya the year after you start and show the rest of us how it's done.

freedominacup

bbam wrote: »

Dangerous to take things for granted.
Shown the country over by the sheer numbers of lads who found themselves over stocked without enough feed.
I'm not saying we're not responsible for ourown farms, just that some lads followed the bigger, bigger, better advice and found themselves in a real jam. Surely you can see this has happened.

What are you saying so?

kevthegaff

freedominacup wrote: »

[/B]

As close to zero as makes no difference. And I'll grow some soya the year after you start and show the rest of us how it's done.

ok

kowtow

Of course we are all responsible for our own farms, and the buck stops at the silo. That is as it should be in a free market.

...Except that we do not operate in a free market. The margins in farming, and the return on capital employed are permanently adjusted by a capricious political mechanism (CAP / SFP) which - among many other effects - distorts the short term conacre market which (in a rational market) would be available to farmers to produce extra feed for their stock - to say nothing of a quota system which, in the manner of it's abolition, invites rational farmers to invest in additional post 2015 production in 2011,12,13 while at the same time restricting the financial output from their existing assets which ought properly to finance that expansion.

This is a business made artificially inefficient by political mechanisms.

The weather is unpredictable, but, to coin a phrase, it is predictably unpredictable. The volatility which results can be handled by farmers operating at maximum efficiency and flexibility - unfortunately the farmer's ability to do so is constrained by market interference which is truly unpredictable, and utterly beyond his control.

Tipp Man

1chippy wrote: »

The lowly stocked lads can shout about boys being overstocked and how they knew better and are great farmers. Then there are the lads like myself who realistically just got lucky by having extra feed. I know i'm going to get knocked for this but the lads out there who are pushing there farms to the last are the lads who we are learning from whether that be directly or indirectly. They are running their show to the tightest possable margins and should be commended for their efforts, not knocked at the first oppurtunity like now when a completly unprecedented year like the last one has passed. To get the most out of what we have we have to work that to its maximum capacity and that doesnt leave much room to tie up large volumes of capital in a just in case situation when the majority of farmers out there are just about surviving by the skin of their teeth.
Sorry rant over

I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. It's great to hear about the lads who are pushing things to the max and beyond - their numbers are fantastic and this rosy picture is painted that everybody should be trying to match them

It's pure rubbish - we are only be fed the good news when it comes out - it's rare if ever that you get the full picture and certainly when something is costing a pure fortune you never hear about it

1 thing the Kilkenny Greenfields has shown is that talk is cheap and things are easy on paper. Trying to make proper money at farming is alot more than talk and numbers on paper.

Don't be fooled by fellas blowing about how great they are. There are a huge number of farmers going to go broke in this country between now and 2025 - it will be unprecedented in this country. And it is the guys who are pushing things to the max who will go first and go the fastest

bbam

freedominacup wrote: »

What are you saying so?

IMHO Not enough emphasis wa put on ensuring lads match farming practice to their own farms, the result was highly stocked farms in areas where long housed seasons are the norm, add a bad back end last year and poor spring this year, farms were caught short as a result....

Someone mentioned that as farming is so tight extra feed cannot be retained.. completly disagree.. No matter what your enterprise, if nothing else this spring has taught the need for a plan to stretch feed for an extra month.. the old quote "Failing to Plan is like Planning to Fail"

F.D

Maybe farmers Will be a better educated bunch after this winter
How many farmers know how to or have done the following

1)Measure grass growth, i dont but planning on learning
2) Soil sample : we have done a lot of our land this year to see whats required
3) Know how much KG/Dm the cattle require: again i dont but planning on learning quick
Etc
I'm sure there is loads more to add to the list Maybe there should be a sticky on here with general information

All that is certain is farmers have come from an era where inputs were cheaper and have gotten very expensive very quick and there margins have shrunk even further and i dont think they have had time to react or maybe the time or skills to adjust there system to suit

Eg Can was probably lashed out in the past because of its price where as now its probably not put on as heavy leading to lesser grass growth
and so on

bbam

F.D wrote: »

Maybe farmers Will be a better educated bunch after this winter
How many farmers know how to or have done the following

1)Measure grass growth, i dont but planning on learning
2) Soil sample : we have done a lot of our land this year to see whats required
3) Know how much KG/Dm the cattle require: again i dont but planning on learning quick
Etc
I'm sure there is loads more to add to the list Maybe there should be a sticky on here with general information

All that is certain is farmers have come from an era where inputs were cheaper and have gotten very expensive very quick and there margins have shrunk even further and i dont think they have had time to react or maybe the time or skills to adjust there system to suit

Eg Can was probably lashed out in the past because of its price where as now its probably not put on as heavy leading to lesser grass growth
and so on

I'd add silage testing to that list..
We did it this winter for the first time and it paid back big time in results..

Muckit

F.D wrote: »

All that is certain is farmers have come from an era where inputs were cheaper and have gotten very expensive very quick and there margins have shrunk even further and i dont think they have had time to react or maybe the time or skills to adjust there system to suit

+1. The Ould lad always raves about running up on 70 head of stock on 40acres of wet land.

It was easy farm some 30years or so ago when urea could be bought for peanuts. Stock to the max and if grass got tight, fire out some more. Sudsidies left right and centre.... leave the key in the back door.

Now we're living in an era where there is no margin for error, fa*t and you'I sh*t yourself. And lads'd steal the eye out of your head and the bag manure out of your yard! Ah the good 'oul days of the donkey jacket and the peak cap!

Buncha Fives

I think the fodder shortage this winter will have a major impact on the cattle trade in the not too distant future...I work in a beef factory and there is a serious amount of cull cows going through.

I know the number of calves registered this year has increased but I think the poor weather coupled with high costs will force a lot of farmers to evaluate their system of farming, suckler men producing poor quality cattle will be under most pressure and I expect that a lot of them will stop keeping cows.

The long term impact will be that there will smaller numbers of cattle going through the marts and that quality cattle will be very hard to buy which will in turn make it ever tougher on the beef finishers.

Conmaicne Mara

I don't really agree with this being unprecedented. Last week I was going through a stack of those monthly Teagasc advisory leaflets and as far back as 2009 there was talk of fodder shortages. I would have to check them again but I think 10 & 11 mentioned same.

Irish farmers need to plan longer term and for worse weather, and see good spells or even good years as a bonus and not the norm some seem to think we're entitled to. Yeah, it costs money, but so does the headless chicken routine of running around the UK and France looking for fodder for Ireland. Certainly in the UK there are very hard cases of fodder shortages parts of Cumbria for example. We should be changing or thinking and hedging our fodder requirements into the future just like airlines hedge their fuel costs.

yellow50HX

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I don't really agree with this being unprecedented. Last week I was going through a stack of those monthly Teagasc advisory leaflets and as far back as 2009 there was talk of fodder shortages. I would have to check them again but I think 10 & 11 mentioned same.

Irish farmers need to plan longer term and for worse weather, and see good spells or even good years as a bonus and not the norm some seem to think we're entitled to. Yeah, it costs money, but so does the headless chicken routine of running around the UK and France looking for fodder for Ireland. Certainly in the UK there are very hard cases of fodder shortages parts of Cumbria for example. We should be changing or thinking and hedging our fodder requirements into the future just like airlines hedge their fuel costs.

in fairness to most people this is what they do. most of the time down here in the south we have a 4 month winter (early november to early march) with the odd couple of weeks above and below so most fella will plan for 6 months worth of fodder to buffer that. We finished the last of the silage this week to spare the grass as best as we could. we were feeding silage in july and august as started full time feeding in october. worked out we used about 8-10 months worth of fodder. now one-can can say on thier heart of hearts that they plan for a 8 month winter

Conmaicne Mara

yellow50HX wrote: »

now one-can can say on thier heart of hearts that they plan for a 8 month winter

And that is the problem.

I said before there should be two years worth of fodder on farms, build up reserves until that's reached then feed it out older stuff first. Then you have decent breathing room.

There was people bitching about neighbors not opening up their excess to them a while back, but who planned it better? The fella who was being called a **** with excess fodder, or the fella doing the name calling?

Not even hectacres can lobby God or Mother Nature. There's no guarantee we'll get decent weather any year, whether we think we deserve it or think it should come because we're fed up of what we have.

whelan1

this argument will go on and on, every farm is different, each person should look after themselves first, forget about your neighbours .... two years fodder is a bit ott imo..... also this crack of grazing cows in late january early february only suits some farms, teagasc/farmers journal advice should be adapted to suit your situation, no point blaming them or any of the farming orgainisations, look after yourself number 1