Some PayPal problems...

shamelessidiot

So here's the thing, I was purchasing FIFA coins to flip for profit (buy for £5, sell for £8) as I do occasionally with no problems. This time there was. I was scammed. Out of £50 (sent via goods), so a fair amount of money. The gobsh*te even had the cheek to say:
"i provided the buyer with 1,000,000 coins and he seemed happy about it. He then continued to haras me about giving him extra free coins. He then thretened to dispute the payment if i didnt and this is where we are now. Proof can be provided or payment and conversations." in the dispute ticket.

Anyway, delving further in I find out that he's a known scammer; basically piggybacking someone else's account on a forum to get interested buyers' Skype details. My fault, should have checked these things beforehand. But if he has scammed before I'm fearful that he knows what he's doing, and has already taken the money out of the account so I'm left stranded. But...

The money that was in my PayPal to pay the scammer was sent to me by my Mam using her Visa (AIB if it matters), so if she contacts Visa will she be reimbursed the money she sent me that I subsequently went and threw down the drain? But then my account will be in the swanny, right? I feel as though this is my only option to get the money back. What am I to do? I'm not too bothered about the account, as long as I can just create a new one.

TIA

Nino Brown

I don't really understand how you were scammed. I'm guessing you paid for an item you didn't receive? If so have you opened a dispute with paypal, and if so have they made a decision yet?

I don't think you can do a charge back with paypal. I may be wrong but you can only do a charge back for a fraudulent transaction, and the transaction between AIB and paypal was not fraudulent.

shamelessidiot

Nino Brown wrote: »

I don't really understand how you were scammed. I'm guessing you paid for an item you didn't receive? If so have you opened a dispute with paypal, and if so have they made a decision yet?

I don't think you can do a charge back with paypal. I may be wrong but you can only do a charge back for a fraudulent transaction, and the transaction between AIB and paypal was not fraudulent.

Yup, right on the button. The guy is claiming he sent it to me, when he didn't. He said in the ticket he'd get it 'sorted' (so he steals my money basically) via phone when their lines open up this morning, is it really that easy to get a decision made? I've provided lots of proof, whilst he has provided none of his 'apparent' whatsoever. Now I'm afraid that he's busy photoshopping away to make it look like he's the victim.

I'm confident I'll win the dispute and justice will be served, but I'm fearful that he has already taken the money out of the account. And his account isn't verified so I'm not sure where I stand.

I tried to dispute it as quickly as possible (he blocked me on Skype as soon as I sent the money) as I heard your PayPal balance is then locked – is this true?

Nino Brown

shamelessidiot wrote: »

Yup, right on the button. The guy is claiming he sent it to me, when he didn't. He said in the ticket he'd get it 'sorted' (so he steals my money basically) via phone when their lines open up this morning, is it really that easy to get a decision made? I've provided lots of proof, whilst he has provided none of his 'apparent' whatsoever. Now I'm afraid that he's busy photoshopping away to make it look like he's the victim.

I'm confident I'll win the dispute and justice will be served, but I'm fearful that he has already taken the money out of the account. And his account isn't verified so I'm not sure where I stand.

I tried to dispute it as quickly as possible (he blocked me on Skype as soon as I sent the money) as I heard your PayPal balance is then locked – is this true?

If you dispute the transaction the value of the dispute will be frozen in his account if the money was still there. If it was already gone its a little trickier to recover.
Did you buy this on ebay? I think you'll win the dispute unless he has proof you received the item, which he clearly can't have. Its not easy to forge. Disputes can take time for paypal to decide tho, its a slow process. I've never lost one before for an item not received.

shamelessidiot

Nino Brown wrote: »

If you dispute the transaction the value of the dispute will be frozen in his account if the money was still there. If it was already gone its a little trickier to recover.
Did you buy this on ebay? I think you'll win the dispute unless he has proof you received the item, which he clearly can't have. Its not easy to forge. Disputes can take time for paypal to decide tho, its a slow process. I've never lost one before for an item not received.

Sounds good. What do you mean trickier? Are you saying it's still possible?

Nino Brown

If you bought from ebay, the item most likely had buyer protection, and in that case, then yes I think you get the refund regardless of if they money is gone from his account or not.

shamelessidiot

Nino Brown wrote: »

If you bought from ebay, the item most likely had buyer protection, and in that case, then yes I think you get the refund regardless of if they money is gone from his account or not.

Nah that's a problem. All business (if you will) was done through a written Skype conversation. I have provided the logs in the dispute, though. That's what I'm worried about – I seemingly have no protection currently other than getting a chargeback on the card, but then PayPal are the ones being screwed out of £50 and a scammer has had his way.

Nino Brown

shamelessidiot wrote: »

Nah that's a problem. All business (if you will) was done through a written Skype conversation. I have provided the logs in the dispute, though. That's what I'm worried about – I seemingly have no protection currently other than getting a chargeback on the card, but then PayPal are the ones being screwed out of £50 and a scammer has had his way.

You may still be okay, this is from paypal's site:

13.1 How am I protected if I have a problem with a purchase?
PayPal Buyer Protection is available for purchases you make both on eBay and off eBay:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/popup/UAeBay-outside

I have no experience with claims outside of ebay tho, best of luck with it anyway.

JustAThought

Nino Brown wrote: »

You may still be okay, this is from paypal's site:

13.1 How am I protected if I have a problem with a purchase?
PayPal Buyer Protection is available for purchases you make both on eBay and off eBay:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/popup/UAeBay-outside

I have no experience with claims outside of ebay tho, best of luck with it anyway.

Get onto PayPal AND eBay & send them a clear step by step desctiption of what happened; to an outsider this one is garbled if you're not part of the transaction it isn't clear at all what happened. Go from there.

Unearthly

The problem here I think is that the item you bought is a 'virtual' intangible item and wasn't purchased on eBay. As far as I remember you won't be covered for buyer protection. Off eBay transactions have to be physical items delivered by post to be eligible. I would still open up a dispute anyway cause this is how PayPal will eventually find out that this person is a scammer. In terms of issuing a chargeback, this is only possible if the card was used to fund the transaction. If you used money in your PayPal balance then you won't be covered either

shamelessidiot

Nino Brown wrote: »

You may still be okay, this is from paypal's site:

13.1 How am I protected if I have a problem with a purchase?
PayPal Buyer Protection is available for purchases you make both on eBay and off eBay:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/popup/UAeBay-outside

I have no experience with claims outside of ebay tho, best of luck with it anyway.

Those seem to be for online retailers selling via PayPal. This was more just like a personal purchase, I didn't go through any checkouts or anything. Just sorted the details through Skype, sent the money and hoped he'd send me the goods. Sounds kinda sketchy, but I've done it numerous times without a hitch.

Nino Brown

Unearthly wrote: »

The problem here I think is that the item you bought is a 'virtual' intangible item and wasn't purchased on eBay. As far as I remember you won't be covered for buyer protection. Off eBay transactions have to be physical items delivered by post to be eligible. I would still open up a dispute anyway cause this is how PayPal will eventually find out that this person is a scammer. In terms of issuing a chargeback, this is only possible if the card was used to fund the transaction. If you used money in your PayPal balance then you won't be covered either

FIFA coins aren't even a real thing? I thought they were like some sort of collector coin or something. If they're not real things I'm afraid you're probably screwed OP.

Nino Brown

shamelessidiot wrote: »

Those seem to be for online retailers selling via PayPal. This was more just like a personal purchase, I didn't go through any checkouts or anything. Just sorted the details through Skype, sent the money and hoped he'd send me the goods. Sounds kinda sketchy, but I've done it numerous times without a hitch.

Doesn't have to be a retailer, it says as long as you click send money, and select for goods then you have buyer protection. But if FIFA coins are virtual then that doesn't apply, sorry, I thought they were real.

shamelessidiot

Unearthly wrote: »

The problem here I think is that the item you bought is a 'virtual' intangible item and wasn't purchased on eBay. As far as I remember you won't be covered for buyer protection. Off eBay transactions have to be physical items delivered by post to be eligible. I would still open up a dispute anyway cause this is how PayPal will eventually find out that this person is a scammer. In terms of issuing a chargeback, this is only possible if the card was used to fund the transaction. If you used money in your PayPal balance then you won't be covered either

Yeah, that's correct. No protection. The only protection I seemingly have is that I sent the money via 'Goods', and not 'Gift'.

What I'm saying about the chargeback is that I used the card on a different PayPal to send money to my own PayPal, so I then had the PayPal credit to make the purchase. Wouldn't I be able to get a chargeback on that transaction (sending money to myself from a CC)? I couldn't add the card to my account as the second name on the card is different to my own.

shamelessidiot

Nino Brown wrote: »

Doesn't have to be a retailer, it says as long as you click send money, and select for goods then you have buyer protection. But if FIFA coins are virtual then that doesn't apply, sorry, I thought they were real.

Nah they're virtual coins used to buy players on FIFA video games. So virtual goods don't follow the same rules?

Nino Brown

shamelessidiot wrote: »

Yeah, that's correct. No protection. The only protection I seemingly have is that I sent the money via 'Goods', and not 'Gift'.

What I'm saying about the chargeback is that I used the card on a different PayPal to send money to my own PayPal, so I then had the PayPal credit to make the purchase. Wouldn't I be able to get a chargeback on that transaction (sending money to myself from a CC)? I couldn't add the card to my account as the second name on the card is different to my own.

No, because you sent the money from your credit card to your paypal account. You'd basically be doing a charge back against yourself which isn't possible. The bank will only do a charge back against a transaction they believe is fraudulent. You putting money into your paypal account is not fraudulent. The fraudulent transaction was between paypal and the seller, so you need to deal with those 2 parties

shamelessidiot

JustAThought wrote: »

Get onto PayPal AND eBay & send them a clear step by step desctiption of what happened; to an outsider this one is garbled if you're not part of the transaction it isn't clear at all what happened. Go from there.

Why eBay? They weren't involved whatsoever. This was a transaction made for valuable virtual coins on a video game via Skype. Looks like chargeback through Visa is my only option now.

shamelessidiot

Nino Brown wrote: »

No, because you sent the money from your credit card to your paypal account. You'd basically be doing a charge back against yourself which isn't possible. The bank will only do a charge back against a transaction they believe is fraudulent. You putting money into your paypal account is not fraudulent. The fraudulent transaction was between paypal and the seller, so you need to deal with those 2 parties

It was my Mam's credit card to my account? For all they know we could be complete strangers? We have different second names.

Nino Brown

shamelessidiot wrote: »

Nah they're virtual coins used to buy players on FIFA video games. So virtual goods don't follow the same rules?

I'm afraid not, it falls under the category of intangible items:

Items purchased off eBay:
Items are eligible unless they are excluded below:
Real estate, motor vehicles, capital equipment, travel tickets, and events tickets
Intangible items
Services
Items purchased using PayPal Payments Pro or Virtual Terminal
You may not file a dispute for a Personal Payment

Unearthly

shamelessidiot wrote: »

Yeah, that's correct. No protection. The only protection I seemingly have is that I sent the money via 'Goods', and not 'Gift'.

What I'm saying about the chargeback is that I used the card on a different PayPal to send money to my own PayPal, so I then had the PayPal credit to make the purchase. Wouldn't I be able to get a chargeback on that transaction (sending money to myself from a CC)? I couldn't add the card to my account as the second name on the card is different to my own.

Unfortunately chargeback won't be possible either. What would happen is that the money would be taken back from your PayPal account, putting you into a negative balance with PayPal and returned to the original card.

My best advice is to ring PayPal and ask the agent on the phone to report this individual.

Nino Brown

shamelessidiot wrote: »

It was my Mam's credit card to my account? For all they know we could be complete strangers? We have different second names.

I know, but think about it, then you would basically be saying that you fraudulently took your mother's money. You could maybe get your mothers E50 back, and have the cops at your door investigating fraud. You'd have to get your mother to call the bank, and say you stole her money or defrauded her.

shamelessidiot

Nino Brown wrote: »

I know, but think about it, then you would basically be saying that you fraudulently took your mother's money. You could maybe get your mothers E50 back, and have the cops at your door investigating fraud. You'd have to get your mother to call the bank, and say you stole her money or defrauded her.

Ah yeah I understand. In future I'll just do it through her account, on her card so if anything does happen a chargeback will actually be possible. Lesson learned I guess. I just hate seeing scammers get away with it. Frustrating.

shamelessidiot

Unearthly wrote: »

Unfortunately chargeback won't be possible either. What would happen is that the money would be taken back from your PayPal account, putting you into a negative balance with PayPal and returned to the original card.

My best advice is to ring PayPal and ask the agent on the phone to report this individual.

For what? Scamming? If they completely disregard virtual goods, is it even worth my time? Apparently you're not even allowed to dispute a virtual goods transaction.

shamelessidiot

Nino Brown wrote: »

You can probably still dispute it, but you don't have buyer protection, it's a lot less likely that you'll get your money back, but its worth a shot

That's even if they still have the money in their account. Do you reckon it's worthwhile to give them a call? I've never had to deal with something like this before. I'm clueless.

Unearthly

shamelessidiot wrote: »

For what? Scamming? If they completely disregard virtual goods, is it even worth my time? Apparently you're not even allowed to dispute a virtual goods transaction.

Yes just say you feel the person is not an honest seller. They will escalate to relevant department.

Also I would still recommend opening up a dispute. It will probably be closed instantly but the dispute will go on record for the sellers account. If someone gets too many disputes on their account, PayPal will cease business with them and close their account.

Nino Brown

shamelessidiot wrote: »

That's even if they still have the money in their account. Do you reckon it's worthwhile to give them a call? I've never had to deal with something like this before. I'm clueless.

Yeah give them a call, after a quick search it looks like you don't have much hope of success but they may close his account or something if you report him.

shamelessidiot

Unearthly wrote: »

Yes just say you feel the person is not an honest seller. They will escalate to relevant department.

Also I would still recommend opening up a dispute. It will probably be closed instantly but the dispute will go on record for the sellers account. If someone gets too many disputes on their account, PayPal will cease business with them and close their account.

Yeah I opened up a dispute as soon as he blocked me on Skype. Was about 5mins after I sent the money.

He said this in the dispute: "No i will contact paypal directl to sort out this matter when there lines open tommorow if they ask for eveidance it can be prooved" – clearly illiterate. But... can it easily be sorted over the phone?

Unearthly

shamelessidiot wrote: »

Yeah I opened up a dispute as soon as he blocked me on Skype. Was about 5mins after I sent the money.

He said this in the dispute: "No i will contact paypal directl to sort out this matter when there lines open tommorow if they ask for eveidance it can be prooved" – clearly illiterate. But... can it easily be sorted over the phone?

When you opened up the dispute, did you state the goods were virtual?

Also does it give you an option to escalate it to a claim?

shamelessidiot

Unearthly wrote: »

When you opened up the dispute, did you state the goods were virtual?

Also does it give you an option to escalate it to a claim?

Nope, I have to wait until the 19th. Is it best off I just wait? And nope, no mention of virtual coins. So for all they know they could be tangible?

Unearthly

shamelessidiot wrote: »

Nope, I have to wait until the 19th. Is it best off I just wait? And nope, no mention of virtual coins. So for all they know they could be tangible?

Ok that's good. Escalate to a claim. This means the seller has 10 days to provide proof they delivered the item. This would be usually providing a tracking number from a shipping company.


Best case scenario : seller doesnt respond and you get the money back in 10 days.

Worst case scenario: seller contacts PayPal and tells them its a 'virtual item.


Worth a try

shamelessidiot

Unearthly wrote: »

Ok that's good. Escalate to a claim. This means the seller has 10 days to provide proof they delivered the item. This would be usually providing a tracking number from a shipping company.


Best case scenario : seller doesnt respond and you get the money back in 10 days.

Worst case scenario: seller contacts PayPal and tells them its a 'virtual item.


Worth a try

Ah right, seems like a fairly sensible thing to do. Sure I have already lost the money, so nothing else to lose. Thanks!

shamelessidiot

Just off the phone with PayPal, they basically told me that if I escalate it it'll be shut straight away. Well that sucks. Going to keep it open, in hope he sends it back (highly unlikely). I know who I'm not using to send money with again!