Microsoft Uturn on Windows 8

200motels

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/steve-ballmer-the-boss-who-bet-his-company-on-windows-8--and-lost-as-computer-giant-announces-biggest-product-uturn-since-new-coke-8605776.html

Big Lar

Well if you don't try you will never know I guess, hard to believe they are calling it a failure after selling 100 million licences.

Soundman

Will this "update" be optional though? If not, then what happens to those of us, like myself, who actually like Win8 and the way it is designed?

batman2000

Big Lar wrote: »

Well if you don't try you will never know I guess, hard to believe they are calling it a failure after selling 100 million licences.

Microsoft are not calling it a failure. However licences does not always equal users. It's not hard to believe they will make changes rumoured to be Windows 8.1. Been using Windows 8 for since December 2012.
They are listening to their users....
The only changes I expect will be the return of the Start "Globe" and also the option to boot into the Desktop

The 100 million licences figure probably includes machines which shipped with Windows 8 Pro licences but were downgraded to Windows 7 Pro by the manufacturer or end user under Microsoft's downgrade rights.

unkel

Karsini wrote: »

The 100 million licences figure probably includes machines which shipped with Windows 8 Pro licences but were downgraded to Windows 7 Pro by the manufacturer or end user under Microsoft's downgrade rights.

What percentage of the total shipped would that be? Surely no more than a few percent tops?

unkel

unkel wrote: »

What percentage of the total shipped would that be? Surely no more than a few percent tops?

In the business market it could be significant. I've come across a lot of new HP business systems which have Windows 8 media in the box but Windows 7 preinstalled.

AlmightyCushion

Karsini wrote: »

In the business market it could be significant. I've come across a lot of new HP business systems which have Windows 8 media in the box but Windows 7 preinstalled.

It would have been the same with Vista and probably 7 as well though.

Overheal

It was. During every major transition companies want to linger on the previous OS. I still have customers that make queasy groans when I tell them all out products are 64-bit, that was what 6 years ago now?

Oh yeah: the article is a big over the top. This isn't a U-Turn, a U-Turn would have been more like "Uh yeah, everyone who bought Windows 8 we're giving you a free installer to load Windows 7", or the complete abolition of the tile interface. Adding a start button and a boot to desktop mode isn't exactly a U-Turn, more than it is an admission of something they probably ought to have caught with a wider set of whatya callems... screen testings. Especially testing with - old people. Worked great for me, being trained at the retail level in it, for the intent of training customers, but they did themselves no favors by leaving it there, because most customers clearly needed more hands on help to handle it. Ultimately the changes are not that dramatic, when you really break it down, but to the average user you might as well have swapped out their keyboard for a chinese layout for all the sense it makes to them. People were already upset with the gradual changes between XP, Vista and 7.

zenno

I have been using windows 7 professional since it was released in RC and it does everything i need it to do, but i decided to try windows 8 a few months ago and i have no touch screen but i really see no point in so-called upgrading to windows 8 as win7 does everything win8 does, just a waste of money but i got the windows 8 disc for very cheap.

The start button was not a major issue at all but using windows 8 on a non- touch screen makes absolutely no sense at all. Using a mouse and keyboard on this win8 is pointless, hence why i went back to windows 7 of which does everything i need and is the most stable operating system i have ever used.

Will see what windows 9 is like in the near future.

The other thing people say is that windows 8 is faster in that it has faster load-up timing and usability, well that is only because when they installed windows 8 it was a clean install and obviously it will be faster as it has less garbage to load, but give it time as files accumulate and you will see no speed difference.

liamog

zenno wrote: »

I have been using windows 7 professional since it was released in RC and it does everything i need it to do, but i decided to try windows 8 a few months ago and i have no touch screen but i really see no point in so-called upgrading to windows 8 as win7 does everything win8 does, just a waste of money but i got the windows 8 disc for very cheap.

The start button was not a major issue at all but using windows 8 on a non- touch screen makes absolutely no sense at all. Using a mouse and keyboard on this win8 is pointless, hence why i went back to windows 7 of which does everything i need and is the most stable operating system i have ever used.

Will see what windows 9 is like in the near future.

Improved task manager, file copy improvements and the new Win X power menu, that and general improvements which means it boots faster. All great reasons to upgrade to Win 8 on a desktop.

zenno

liamog wrote: »

Improved task manager, file copy improvements and the new Win X power menu, that and general improvements which means it boots faster. All great reasons to upgrade to Win 8 on a desktop.

I don't think that alone justify's the hassle of upgrading to windows 8.

Sure i gave it a week before i decided to return to windows 7 but that's just me. Everyone to their own i suppose. I'll wait for windows 9.

Sure windows 7 is not old by any stretch of the imagination, it does the job perfectly well.

liamog

zenno wrote: »

I don't think that alone justify's the hassle of upgrading to windows 8.

Sure i gave it a week before i decided to return to windows 7 but that's just me. Everyone to their own i suppose. I'll wait for windows 9.

Sure windows 7 is not old by any stretch of the imagination, it does the job perfectly well.

Was their an actual reason for going back to 7 other than the hassle? We should add multi monitor support to Win 8 list as well.

zenno

liamog wrote: »

Was their an actual reason for going back to 7 other than the hassle? We should add multi monitor support to Win 8 list as well.

It's just like this... I don't like cauliflower so i don't eat it, I don't like windows 8 so i don't use it, simple really. multi monitor support is available in windows 7 so that's nothing new.

If you like windows 8 then great, but not everyone likes it. I might have to work on a few to fix but that's as far as i will go in using it.

Any way there are compatibility issues with special software i have to use so they won't work on win8 so i'm happy enough with 7 for the time being.

dartup

no business will use windows 8,its not computer friendly,when you turn on your computer you want to do computer work not sort through apps,you also want on off button and a button that will search for programs,you want the desktop coming up first,

AlmightyCushion

zenno wrote: »

It's just like this... I don't like cauliflower so i don't eat it, I don't like windows 8 so i don't use it, simple really. multi monitor support is available in windows 7 so that's nothing new.

If you like windows 8 then great, but not everyone likes it. I might have to work on a few to fix but that's as far as i will go in using it.

Any way there are compatibility issues with special software i have to use so they won't work on win8 so i'm happy enough with 7 for the time being.

But if you spend 2 minutes installing a piece of software, you get all the advantages of Windows 8 but get to avoid the UI and have it work like Windows 7.

As a side note, after arranging the start screen a bit, I could actually see myself using it over start8. I arranged all my stuff into separate groups and it works nicely. Everything is laid out nice and neatly. Scrolling up and down on the mouse wheel or sliding on my touchpad works a lot better than finding things buried in a folder of a folder in the start menu.

AlmightyCushion

dartup wrote: »

no business will use windows 8,its not computer friendly,when you turn on your computer you want to do computer work not sort through apps,you also want on off button and a button that will search for programs,you want the desktop coming up first,

You can add a power button if you like plus as someone said above you can change it so the computer's power button shuts down the computer. Also, there is no button for searching for programs because you just start typing and it searches for programs (as well as files and settings). It works like Windows 7 but you don't have to open the start menu, it's one less step.

Businesses won't change because they are reluctant to change and for a good reason. Windows 7 is really a more logical step for a business to make the switch to in most cases.

liamog

zenno wrote: »

It's just like this... I don't like cauliflower so i don't eat it, I don't like windows 8 so i don't use it, simple really. multi monitor support is available in windows 7 so that's nothing new.

If you like windows 8 then great, but not everyone likes it. I might have to work on a few to fix but that's as far as i will go in using it.

Any way there are compatibility issues with special software i have to use so they won't work on win8 so i'm happy enough with 7 for the time being.

That's what I am trying to find out, there's a lot of opinions given where I don't like it becomes the final answer when pushed. As someone who used 7 extensively then upgraded to 8 I'm trying to put my finger on what the difference is that is turning people off.

Win 8 on the desktop to me contains a number of improvements that I miss when using my Win 7 PC in work.

Overheal

when you do a file search in the start menu in 7, does it search within documents? 8 does this pretty smoothly (even with hand-written notes in windows journal) just wondering if 7 did it. Its a feature that has made my life much easier, given that in a lecture setting I'm not exactly given the foresight or advantage to name my notes as whatever I learned (nor is it practical from a folder organization standpoint: its cleaner to keep it as chapter 7.3 7.4 or similar) so when I need to quickly find my notes on say, Stokes Theorem, I don't need to remember anything else, just do a file search for Stokes and wham, theres my note, from Chapter 15, and again in my Unit 5 review sheet.

zenno

liamog wrote: »

That's what I am trying to find out, there's a lot of opinions given where I don't like it becomes the final answer when pushed. As someone who used 7 extensively then upgraded to 8 I'm trying to put my finger on what the difference is that is turning people off.

Win 8 on the desktop to me contains a number of improvements that I miss when using my Win 7 PC in work.

I obviously know that you can just use the original windows desktop but this is why i see absolutely no reason to upgrade to it as it is basically the same as using windows 7 but my main gripe with it is that i use a lot of older software that i need to connect to the system and to change two way radio settings and transmission settings and the software will not work on windows 8 but the software works perfectly on windows 7. Compatibility mode on windows 8 is of no use.

There are other software programs i need and use and they will not work either, so basically if i just needed windows 8 as an entertainment system i would be fine but until they make the compatability better so that i can use my software then it's a no go.

Also windows 8 actually ran slower than win7 on my system when i installed it clean with a full format of the hard drive. Don't get me wrong, win8 looks like a decent system but it is not for me personally at this time.

I want things running smooth and i cannot have the problem of incompatibilities.

AlmightyCushion

Overheal wrote: »

when you do a file search in the start menu in 7, does it search within documents? 8 does this pretty smoothly (even with hand-written notes in windows journal) just wondering if 7 did it. Its a feature that has made my life much easier, given that in a lecture setting I'm not exactly given the foresight or advantage to name my notes as whatever I learned (nor is it practical from a folder organization standpoint: its cleaner to keep it as chapter 7.3 7.4 or similar) so when I need to quickly find my notes on say, Stokes Theorem, I don't need to remember anything else, just do a file search for Stokes and wham, theres my note, from Chapter 15, and again in my Unit 5 review sheet.

I think it did.

Overheal

Well, I didnt upgrade for the tiles either. I did it for the Live Account syncing and like in my last post I'm a sucker for the improvements they've been making to search ever since vista. Vista made me a fan because of just how few keystrokes it took to launch the calculator, as opposed to the XP start menu jungle tree of doom. 7 was an improvement on that, and 8 makes some improvements to that - though I would like it the app/settings/file searches weren't so exclusive - if I just start typing "Add Printer", employ the same common sense that 7 showed. Still, they made another upgrade on the file indexing, and I like it.

I think it did.

See, I cant remember. And to its credit, I wasn't doing digital notes back then either.

batman2000

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

But if you spend 2 minutes installing a piece of software, you get all the advantages of Windows 8 but get to avoid the UI and have it work like Windows 7.

As a side note, after arranging the start screen a bit, I could actually see myself using it over start8. I arranged all my stuff into separate groups and it works nicely. Everything is laid out nice and neatly. Scrolling up and down on the mouse wheel or sliding on my touchpad works a lot better than finding things buried in a folder of a folder in the start menu.

There are actually lots of nice tricks to Windows 8. A good quick how to guide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8NpwiEuzc

iMyself

The windows 8 argument is simple. People do not like change. There are a lot of people out there who are computer illiterate, and I'm not just talking about older people. It takes them a great deal to learn the very basics, they learn only the bear minimum that is required for them to get by using a computer. They see Microsoft come along, and from their perspective, completely change everything they are familiar with and they don't like it.

What disappoints me in the Windows 8 debate is all the other users. The tech savvy and the IT professionals whose arguments simply do not make sense. I can't live without a start button, I want it to go straight to desktop, I mean ffs what silly arguments. the amount of so called professionals I know who did not realise that windows key on the keyboard will pop up the tiles screen, or even that it pops up the start menu in windows 7. nor are they familiar with any of the windows key short cuts either in windows 7 or windows 8.

I absolutely love windows 8. I installed it on my non touch laptop and have recently bought a Surface and without a doubt it blows Android and iOS out of the water (I have owned both) with regards to functionality and practical use. It's a tablet you will use. It's a tablet you can get work done on. I don't care that it doesn't have 20 million apps because it does everything I need out of the box. The only app I have installed is Mobile.HD to play videos and that along with the stock software is all I am ever going to need. not to mention that 99% of apps on iOS and android are complete and utter junk.

I had someone ask me advice about whether to get a tablet or a laptop\pc. After about 5 minutes it was apparent when he said tablet he actually meant an iPad, as if there was no other type even worth considering. The problem he had was that he could not see any use for it other than pissing about with apps. There is a gap in the market for a tablet with the productivity of a PC. Windows 8 meets that need. It's in the early days, no doubt, but hopefully it will survive and evolve.

As for the OP, Windows blue is an update. Microsoft have been doing it for years. Apple do it and Google do it. what the fcuk is all this talk about a U turn?! Because they're going to put a start button back and allow you to boot straight to desktop (which you can already do, but again not for the computer illiterate)?! I don't get it. I simply don't see the problems other people see. What are people going to moan about when they put these features in? It doesn't have a farting noise app?

zenno

iMyself wrote: »

The windows 8 argument is simple. People do not like change. There are a lot of people out there who are computer illiterate, and I'm not just talking about older people. It takes them a great deal to learn the very basics, they learn only the bear minimum that is required for them to get by using a computer. They see Microsoft come along, and from their perspective, completely change everything they are familiar with and they don't like it.

What disappoints me in the Windows 8 debate is all the other users. The tech savvy and the IT professionals whose arguments simply do not make sense. I can't live without a start button, I want it to go straight to desktop, I mean ffs what silly arguments. the amount of so called professionals I know who did not realise that windows key on the keyboard will pop up the tiles screen, or even that it pops up the start menu in windows 7. nor are they familiar with any of the windows key short cuts either in windows 7 or windows 8.

I absolutely love windows 8. I installed it on my non touch laptop and have recently bought a Surface and without a doubt it blows Android and iOS out of the water (I have owned both) with regards to functionality and practical use. It's a tablet you will use. It's a tablet you can get work done on. I don't care that it doesn't have 20 million apps because it does everything I need out of the box. The only app I have installed is Mobile.HD to play videos and that along with the stock software is all I am ever going to need. not to mention that 99% of apps on iOS and android are complete and utter junk.

I had someone ask me advice about whether to get a tablet or a laptop\pc. After about 5 minutes it was apparent when he said tablet he actually meant an iPad, as if there was no other type even worth considering. The problem he had was that he could not see any use for it other than pissing about with apps. There is a gap in the market for a tablet with the productivity of a PC. Windows 8 meets that need. It's in the early days, no doubt, but hopefully it will survive and evolve.

As for the OP, Windows blue is an update. Microsoft have been doing it for years. Apple do it and Google do it. what the fcuk is all this talk about a U turn?! Because they're going to put a start button back and allow you to boot straight to desktop (which you can already do, but again not for the computer illiterate)?! I don't get it. I simply don't see the problems other people see. What are people going to moan about when they put these features in? It doesn't have a farting noise app?

Well see, this is your problem right here, well, in bold above.

Why would a person use an operating system that has incompatibilities with the software they use ? Windows 8 might be grand for the user if their software works on it but it's no good for people when they cannot run their own important software on it, what would be the point.

I personally never had a problem with the start button but if it is not compatible with my software then what use is it ?.

Overheal

I have yet to encounter a piece of software that couldnt handle 8, unless you're using some old **** that you should have updated years back or some in-house concoction. Im looking squarely at people who are clung on to licenses for things like Office 2003 or some legacy version of Quickbooks. Or Microsoft Money, or Works. And if you use either of those last two a lot of it boils down to the user's resistance to tolerate any changes to their workflow, even if once learned those changes offer an improvement.

That said, as long as I've been selling Tablets people have expected them to be able to run Quickbooks and Office, and they really aren't fit for either, especially the former, which still requires you to run the desktop software as a basis. The line of Windows 8 x64 and x86 tablets bridges that, you can actually if you're so inclined use a Lenovo Lynx to replace your other PC solutions.

iMyself

zenno wrote: »

Well see, this is your problem right here, well, in bold above.

Why would a person use an operating system that has incompatibilities with the software they use ? Windows 8 might be grand for the user if their software works on it but it's no good for people when they cannot run their own important software on it, what would be the point.

I personally never had a problem with the start button but if it is not compatible with my software then what use is it ?.

What incompatibilities? If you need to install your own important software then you need Windows 8 pro.

zenno

My God you people think you know everything about operating systems.

The software I use is not that old, it is 1 year old and it is business software for two way transmitters, hand talkies and base station systems software which i need to work and they don't work with windows 8, it's that simple. I need to program other transmitters on a weekly bases so i need this software running perfectly, this is the reason i went back to windows 7.

I use other software of which has the same problem with compatibility in windows 8 as well. Now does my comment make sense ?.

I was using windows 8 pro and this is the problem i had.

iMyself

zenno wrote: »

My God you people think you know everything about operating systems.

The software I use is not that old, it is 1 year old and it is business software for two way transmitters, hand talkies and base station systems software which i need to work and they don't work with windows 8, it's that simple. I need to program other transmitters on a weekly bases so i need this software running perfectly, this is the reason i went back to windows 7.

I use other software of which has the same problem with compatibility in windows 8 as well. Now does my comment make sense ?.

I was using windows 8 pro and this is the problem i had.

Well thanks for elaborating because yes your original post didn't make any sense. So obviously you need to stick with windows 7. Not sure how that is Microsoft's fault or how it makes windows 8 crap. It's one of two things, a) you don't have the right drivers installed or b) the drivers are not available, in which case the fault is with your software provider.

And no I don't know everything there is to know about operating systems but I do know a lot about them, it's part of my job to know.

delly

Other than the touch overlay, is there any other big differences in the UI. When I got my first Win7 machine I installed Classic Shell, and when a friend got a a Win8 laptop, I installed it for him too. It's tied to the windows key so from the start he has used it without having the hassle of the traditional Win8 home screen.

http://www.classicshell.net/

At least they are listening to feedback. Vista came and went without having any of its deficiencies addressed.

The True Puka

One thing I hope they bring back is the Windows Classic theme/interface. I am using this on 7 and it is much easier on the eye and cleaner.
And it is the ACTUAL Classic interface (grey backgrounds, blue title bars etc a ala Win 95) I'd like to see brought back as an option, not the faux classic high contrast colour schemes that you can download that try to mimic the classic interface. It's just not the same.