Galway Airport park & ride

Mrs OBumble

New service between Galway City and airport starts next Monday.

Looks like they've done a nice job with the branding, including getting a very SEO friendly URl at http://galwayparkandride.com/

Every 20 mins at peak times, 30 off peak, roughly 7am - 7pm, Mon-Fri.

Will be fascinating to see if Farrells can make the economics stack up.



PS, and OT: does anyone understand why "ride" is a synonym for f*** - except in the context of Park & Ride when it's OK? Where I come from a ride is strickly a trip from place to place in someone else's car, with no extras involved. I keep forgetting and asking for the same thing here ... occasionally a little embarassing

bikeman1

I always laugh and look at them weird when my American cousins are over and say, are we going for a ride in the car!!!

On topic, hope it works well for them. Biggest problem with Galway is the lack of bus lanes and priority.

For a small city the traffic is chronic.

yer man!

bikeman1 wrote: »

I always laugh and look at them weird when my American cousins are over and say, are we going for a ride in the car!!!

On topic, hope it works well for them. Biggest problem with Galway is the lack of bus lanes and priority.

For a small city the traffic is chronic.

Still, the bus lanes really help from the East of the city, even at the busiest, a bus from Oranmore takes 20-25 mins to get to Eyre square and 30 minutes to NUIG.

monument

Is this going to use coaches over urban buses?

galwaycyclist

monument wrote: »

Is this going to use coaches over urban buses?

Yep as far as I know they are intercity type coaches. There will be no stops between the P&R site and the coach station.

Mrs OBumble

monument wrote: »

Is this going to use coaches over urban buses?

I borrowed a photo from their Facebook page (which I can't access at work) - 'tis on this page: http://news.galwaytransport.info/2013/05/galway-airport-park-and-ride-pilot-2013.html

Looks like a coach from the outside anyways, don't know if the interior is up to inter-city spec.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yep as far as I know they are intercity type coaches. There will be no stops between the P&R site and the coach station.

That's kinda silly as it can't be used to serve the employers on the East of town - Mervue, Ballybane etc. Wouldn't take much to stop it at the Huntsman for access to Mervue Ind Est. and Sean Mulvoy Rd.

antoobrien

monument wrote: »

Is this going to use coaches over urban buses?

The company that are running it (Farrell Travel) doesn't have many (if any) urban buses, so I'd imagine the majority of them will be 53 seater coaches.

flazio

It'd be nice if they divided the coaches into 3 runs.
1. Hospitals, Galway Clinic, Merlin Park, Bon Secours, UCHG
2. Indutrial estates, Parkmore, Ballybrit, Mervue etc,
3. Shopping centres, Briarhill, Headford Road, Westside, City Centre,

diarmuid05

Anybody know if you can leave car overnight and return following day? or later even?

Lapin

Its amazing how you can now travel on a comfortable coach to an airport with no planes up to 30 times a day for €2.

When there were flights to be had from the place, there was one urban city bus service a day and it cost €5.50.

munchkin_utd

Lapin wrote: »

Its amazing how you can now travel on a comfortable coach to an airport with no planes up to 30 times a day for €2.

When there were flights to be had from the place, there was one urban city bus service a day and it cost €5.50.

Its an airport full of ironies.

- It was pushed as essential to Galway city as it was "important to foreign tourists", yet the stats show that extremely few overseas tourists used it.
- A natural purpose for the airport would have been a hub for onward travel to the tourist centre of the aran islands - but of course that now has a separate airport 30km or so in Connemara.
- There was many onward connections via Dublin that would have made sense and boosted passenger numbers significantly should there have been through ticketing (i.e. I remember arriving and departing from/ to germany beside the galway plane, frustrating when you were actually heading to Galway I can tell you) but of course Aer Arran couldnt organise such a minor cooperation with aer lingus, but ironically they COULD organise a major cooperation with aerlingus that resulted in them not even flying under their own name any more.

AlekSmart

monument wrote: »

Is this going to use coaches over urban buses?

Oh Oh....Am I correct in thinking that you're beginning to smell the NTA's rat here..?

With Dublin Bus disposing of perfectly good Volvo/Alexander vehicles on the grounds of them not being Low Floor,accompanied by various Politico's all looking for a photo-op on new low-floor vehicles,I hope I'm not alone in wondering why the NTA will not demand Low-Floor Accessibility on all new route allocations....?

Low Floor technology is no longer new or ground breaking,and frankly to see operators being facilitated to continue with high-floor vehicles totally unsuited to the job at hand,smacks of race to the bottom....or worse still...evidence that the NTA simply don't understand the difference between new and old ....?

Mind you,it's not only the NTA that suffers from confusion on Low vs Hi-Floor Vehicles.....

http://bartons.ie/bartons-double-deckers.html

I'm quite sure that had BAC referred to the exact same vehicle as being "Low-Floor,Easy Access" it would have been marched at gunpoint before the Advertising Standards Authority.....;)

antoobrien

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oh Oh....Am I correct in thinking that you're beginning to smell the NTA's rat here..?

It's running with (new looking) 53 seater coaches.

Victor

Some traditional layout, high-level coaches do have wheelchair access, but of course, that won't be useful for everyone.

yew_tree

Government Jet has landed in Galway a short while ago I believe.....I wonder is Enda taking the bus into town.

westmidlands

Looks like the Galway Airport Park & Ride is cancelled with immediate effect, I just saw the news on the Galway Bay FM website. I used it a handful of times and I have to say I am not surprised, hardly anybody ever on any of the buses.

galwaycyclist

westmidlands wrote: »

Looks like the Galway Airport Park & Ride is cancelled with immediate effect, I just saw the news on the Galway Bay FM website. I used it a handful of times and I have to say I am not surprised, hardly anybody ever on any of the buses.

Hopefully, this might wake up a few influential people to the transport implications of an oversupply cheap parking in the city centre.

veryangryman

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hopefully, this might wake up a few influential people to the transport implications of an oversupply cheap parking in the city centre.

Snore. Yank up parking costs when people have alternatives like a bypass bus lanes and who knows... A gluas. Park and ride with terrible bus times to town was never going to work

Vic_08

veryangryman wrote: »

Snore. Yank up parking costs when people have alternatives like a bypass bus lanes and who knows... A gluas. Park and ride with terrible bus times to town was never going to work

What comes first, a great bus service or a removal of private car created congestion that makes bus use unattractive?

dowlingm

If the money raised from jacking up parking rates actually funded better bus service maybe some would accept it.

antoobrien

dowlingm wrote: »

If the money raised from jacking up parking rates actually funded better bus service maybe some would accept it.

No they wouldn't, they'd take their business elsewhere - like they're already doing because they can't get into Galway in the first place.

monument

veryangryman wrote: »

....Park and ride with terrible bus times to town was never going to work

Agreed.

Even with higher city centre parking, P&R needs to have a high frequency service.

Very high priority with few or no gaps in bus lanes also helps -- something also missing from the failed Galway P&R.

Other elements which were mentioned already in the thread also are needed (very strong marketing) or helps (low floor buses and a system of P&R not just one route or one car park etc), but the failed service lacked even the core basics of high frequency and strong priority.

dowlingm

antoobrien wrote: »

No they wouldn't, they'd take their business elsewhere - like they're already doing because they can't get into Galway in the first place.

So it wouldn't make it worse then

KevR

Announcement yesterday that fares to Galway from Oranmore railway station have been reduced from €8 to €6 return. I believe parking is still free.

The monthly and annual tax saver tickets are excellent value.

The train doesn't have the same frequency as the Airport bus service did BUT it only takes 7 mins to get to Eyre Square on the train from Oranmore. 7 minutes....

Laviski

KevR wrote: »

Announcement yesterday that fares to Galway from Oranmore railway station have been reduced from €8 to €6 return. I believe parking is still free.

The monthly and annual tax saver tickets are excellent value.

The train doesn't have the same frequency as the Airport bus service did BUT it only takes 7 mins to get to Eyre Square on the train from Oranmore. 7 minutes....

yeah this is a winner for those that want to get into work..

first train in the morning
8am gets you into eyre square at 8:10
last train from eyre square is 18:40.

from the the looks of the times you have 4 morning slots then 1 lunchtime slot and 4 evenings slots to get back. to be honest if they were to every look at park and ride again they should just promote this service.

i'm just surprised that the park and ride for xmas worked so well and the park and ride from the airport didn't take off.

They were in different locations.

The one at the airport didn't have near the passing traffic of the one at the racecourse plus the Xmas one is geared to shoppers.

antoobrien

Laviski wrote: »

yeah this is a winner for those that want to get into work..

first train in the morning
8am gets you into eyre square at 8:10
last train from eyre square is 18:40.

The proportion of people working in locations where this (and the unlamented p&r) serve usefully is tiny wrt the amount of people working in the city.

Any yet people think that this is a good thing?

It's no good the the vast majority because they start work before 8am and they don't work in the city centre area that these "serve".

It's no wonder people ignore "services" like this.

markpb

antoobrien wrote: »

It's no good the the vast majority because they start work before 8am and they don't work in the city centre area that these "serve".

Can you back up that claim or is it just based on anecdotal evidence?

Mrs OBumble

Laviski wrote: »

i'm just surprised that the park and ride for xmas worked so well and the park and ride from the airport didn't take off.

Totally different target markets.

The Christmas one is used by people making one-off journeys that they don't have a pre-existing plan for. It would work from the airport as well as from the racecourse (maybe even a little better 'cos the airport is easier to get to).

A bus serivce targeting workers or students takes some time to grow, becuase it needs to convince people to change their existing arrangements: if someone has been driving all the way to work until now, it takes a while to change their behaviour.

Mrs OBumble

markpb wrote: »

Can you back up that claim or is it just based on anecdotal evidence?

Observation.

Most of the jobs in Galway are in industrial estates littered around the edges of the city. Day shifts at Boston, Medtronic (the two big ones) tend to start between 7 and 8 AFAIK, ditto some of the other medical device factories.

NUIG and UHG are also large employers, located in Newcastle not the city centre.

The only large city-centre employer I'm aware of is Revenue (a couple? of hundred), and Dunnes Stores and Debenhams (all sorts of shifts).

antoobrien

markpb wrote: »

Can you back up that claim or is it just based on anecdotal evidence?

Based on living in Galway and having relatives that work in various factories across Galway. Almost all the factories start before 8am (I don't know of any that start after 8).

LXFlyer

antoobrien wrote: »

The proportion of people working in locations where this (and the unlamented p&r) serve usefully is tiny wrt the amount of people working in the city.

Any yet people think that this is a good thing?

It's no good the the vast majority because they start work before 8am and they don't work in the city centre area that these "serve".

It's no wonder people ignore "services" like this.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Observation.

Most of the jobs in Galway are in industrial estates littered around the edges of the city. Day shifts at Boston, Medtronic (the two big ones) tend to start between 7 and 8 AFAIK, ditto some of the other medical device factories.

NUIG and UHG are also large employers, located in Newcastle not the city centre.

The only large city-centre employer I'm aware of is Revenue (a couple? of hundred), and Dunnes Stores and Debenhams (all sorts of shifts).

To work effectively, P & R services such as this need to address two markets:
1) Workers in the city centre
2) Shoppers

It needs to be high frequency at peak times - 20 minutes is not high frequency. Cork's P & R operates at 5-10 minute frequencies in peak and 15 minutes throughout the day.

To be fair there is a misconception here. These sort of services are not designed to serve the big employers out in the industrial estates - they are aimed at the city centre market.

The problem with the industrial estates is that staff are coming from all directions - this is the same with business parks in Dublin. Public transport can only do so much in these cases - such as linking with the city centre, as it would be impossible to provide services for everyone.

There are a large number of small businesses in Galway city centre, with staff working standard hours - these all add up and they would be part of the main target market.

antoobrien

lxflyer wrote: »

To work effectively, P & R services such as this need to address two markets:
1) Workers in the city centre
2) Shoppers

P&R did this, it failed miserably.

It ran more frequently than most city bus services.

Explain why it failed?

LXFlyer

antoobrien wrote: »

P&R did this, it failed miserably.

It ran more frequently than most city bus services.

Explain why it failed?

Maybe the location was wrong - the passing traffic to the city centre may have been insufficient.

I'd have thought somewhere like Ballybrit would be better.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

P&R did this, it failed miserably.

It ran more frequently than most city bus services.

Explain why it failed?

Frequency was not greater than most city bus services; about the same. Every 20 mins.
Cheap and vast city center car parking and lack of bus lane inbound from Duggans in Renmore to Eyre Square is the main reason it did not work.

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

Frequency was not greater than most city bus services; about the same. Every 20 mins.

Bus| peak frequency
401 | 20
402 | 30
403 | 30
404 | 40
405 | 20
407 | 30 mins
409 | 15 mins


Out of 7 busses it was less frequent than 1, as frequent as 2 and more frequent than 4 - which is most of them.

what_traffic wrote: »

Cheap and vast city center car parking and lack of bus lane inbound from Duggans in Renmore to Eyre Square is the main reason it did not work.

Cheap parking my eye, the day rate of €4 isn't cheap and that's the cheapest rate available in town unless one had rented a space long term.

lxflyer wrote: »

Maybe the location was wrong - the passing traffic to the city centre may have been insufficient.

Location could not have been better - smack bang in the centre of all the approach roads from the east of the river. The road it was on reguarly backs up (up to) 1 mile from the first set of lights at the city so passing traffic is not a problem.

lxflyer wrote: »

I'd have thought somewhere like Ballybrit would be better.

Ballybrit would be a disaster for park and ride as it would be pouring traffic right into one of the areas that needs traffic removed from it.

That's pretty much as idiotic as saying we should put a P&R in the university.

I've said it before and I'll say it again services like these are useless unless they are serving where people want to go, and in Galway it's clearly not the city centre.

munchkin_utd

antoobrien wrote: »

Cheap parking my eye, the day rate of €4 isn't cheap and that's the cheapest rate available in town unless one had rented a space long term.

That is cheap in the greater scheme of things!

For example, the ilac centre in Dublin is €2.80 an hour with a daily rate of 35euro.
The city car parks in Cork are less but still looking at €3per hour and a daily rate of 18euro.

Fees like that really make park and rides or plain public transport attractive.

antoobrien

munchkin_utd wrote: »

That is cheap in the greater scheme of things!

Not really, the hourly rate for most of the car parks is €2.20 per hour (don't know what the max day rate is).

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Fees like that really make park and rides or plain public transport attractive.

Galway City council seem to think the same way as they have recently proposed to raise the car park prices, but then the car parks are one of their best source of incomes (3.4m projected this year, 4th behind housing rent, water & amenity rental).

People are already going away from Galway for their business and now this is will drive more of them away. What kind of braindead twit proposes increasing a charge that will hurt their revenue stream?

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Cheap parking my eye, the day rate of €4 isn't cheap and that's the cheapest rate available in town unless one had rented a space long term.

antoobrien wrote: »

Not really, the hourly rate for most of the car parks is €2.20 per hour (don't know what the max day rate is).

So an hourly rate of €2.20 is not cheap, and a day rate of €4 is not cheap either?

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So an hourly rate of €2.20 is not cheap, and a day rate of €4 is not cheap either?

Nope, neither are "cheap". Put to stop the histrionic pedantics that I know will be coming one is cheaper than the other.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

Galway City council seem to think the same way as they have recently proposed to raise the car park prices, but then the car parks are one of their best source of incomes (3.4m projected this year, 4th behind housing rent, water & amenity rental).

True. Not in City council's interest to do anything about car traffic in the city.
How much is our other state body here in Galway City - Galway Harbour Board making from Car Parking?

Your right on frequency of buses. Average is 30 minutes(also when citydirect) is included.

411 30
412 30
413 30
414 120


I thought more of them were 20 minutes.:o

Perhaps frequency of local buses should be looked at as well rather than park and ride?

what_traffic

Found this:
http://www.galwayharbour.com/shipping.php?id=18

Galway Harbour Company
Two Pay and Display car parks totalling 140 spaces.
Current charge is €2.00 per hour.

260 permit car park.
Car park spaces can be booked annually, quarterly or monthly.
€650 annually, €60 monthly

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

True. Not in City council's interest to do anything about car traffic in the city.
How much is our other state body here in Galway City - Galway Harbour Board making from Car Parking?

I'm sure you'll find it in their accounts, but I seem to remember something like half their revenue was from parking.

what_traffic wrote: »

Your right on frequency of buses. Average is 30 minutes(also when citydirect) is included.

411 30
412 30
413 30
414 120


I thought more of them were 20 minutes.:o

It's a common misconception based on the local service - surely they're all that way - (I can get the 403 or 409) alas they're not.

I know I brought them all in, but it's really only the ones that serve the east of town that are relevant to the P&R (even then I left out the 410, which is probably of more relevance than the 401).

It does serve to highlight the next point though:

what_traffic wrote: »

Perhaps frequency of local buses should be looked at as well rather than park and ride?

And more importantly the cost of said services needs to be examined.

They could also do some tweaking with the frequencies, while not affecting the overall numbers of buses on. If they increased the peak time frequency by 5 minutes and reduced the off peak by 5 minutes on certain routes (in this case the 409 & 403), it'd probably make more of a difference than a 600 space park & ride could ever hope to.

Also for a Sunday/off peak service, instead of making the 403 hourly & 409 half hourly, just split the services, i.e. when the 409 reaches Parkmore it becomes the 403 & vice versa (the 403 would then be half hourly leaving the square). It'd keep a bus going through Doughiska every half hour and it'd raise the frequency of buses going though casltepark (surely be better than one bus every hour).

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Nope, neither are "cheap". Put to stop the histrionic pedantics that I know will be coming one is cheaper than the other.

So what would you regard as a cheap hourly rate?

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So what would you regard as a cheap hourly rate?

50c

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

50c

Which equals €4 for 8 hours - which is the Daily rate for the Dyke Road Car Park which you think is expensive?

Galway Harbour Monthly works out at €3 per day if taking 20 working days on average per month; even cheaper if using at the weekends.

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

Which equals €4 for 8 hours - which is the Daily rate for the Dyke Road Car Park which you think is expensive?

For an hourly (or part of) rate - one does not park in the dyke for less than two hours. I still think that €4 per day is too high (just like €3.60 return is too high on the bus).

what_traffic wrote: »

Galway Harbour Monthly works out at €3 per day if taking 20 working days on average per month; even cheaper if using at the weekends.

Careful now, you could be perceived to be promoting the use of car parks;)

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

Careful now, you could be perceived to be promoting the use of car parks;)

Car parking in Galway City is so so cheap - it really is no wonder people are stuck in car traffic so often in the City.

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

Car parking in Galway City is so so cheap - it really is no wonder people are stuck in car traffic so often in the City.

Car parking isn't cheap - otherwise by the 50c per hour rate you have criticised earlier which the dyke in theory uses (it doesn't it's a day rate) would mean that the dyke would be full all day every day, which it is not.

what_traffic

There are 1,019 car parking spaces in Galway City Center which cost €4 and less per day. This is just Galway City Council and Galway Harbour figures combined.
Can we add to this figure? Is there other private car parks in the city with these kind of cheap day rates? and free car parking(City and County Hall come to mind)