Bmw 520D or 523i

seanoc67

Hi,

Im considering buying either an E60 Facelift ( LCI ) 520D or 523i, Obviously in Ireland , Car tax and petrol and diesel are still quite expensive but Is it worth it to buy a 523i because the tax is €1080 and it would be more expensive to run but I dont want to run into problems with a 520d because I believe they have engine problems. ? So any recommendations ?

Anan1

The 163bhp 520d would be a cheaper option if you're worried about the timing chain issue on the later 2.0 diesel. The 523i is in a different league to either, but more expensive to run. Depends on your mileage, your pockets, and your priorities I suppose.

Eric Cartman

if you can afford to run the 523i then the 525i might also be a decent bet as its the same engine

also if you can afford to run the 523/25i then dont settle for the 520d.

seanoc67

Ye, thats what i was thinking because I'd rather pay the bit extra than instead of getting issues from the diesel..

Big Nasty

What sort of mileage OP?

seanoc67

Well the 523i Is the LCI and the mileage is 47,000 miles.

Big Nasty

seanoc67 wrote: »

Well the 523i Is the LCI and the mileage is 47,000 miles.

What sort of mileage do you do?

Alanstrainor

One car will get in the region of 24mpg and the other could get twice that. They really aren't all that comparable. It all comes down to your mileage really.

seanoc67

Actually, Im using my sons account. I do 3,200 miles a year. Ive a mercedes benz CLK 200 Kompressor ( New shape ) , Its 2003 and it has 32,000 miles. But even though Im not an excessive driver, I dont want too pay the really high tax but at the same time i'd rather a 523i.

Big Nasty

3200!?! :eek:

Petrol 525i

/thread

Bpmull

Op there's no point in buying a diesel to do 3200 miles a year. The 523i would be a nicer car too.

seanoc67

Yes, Only 3,200 miles a year.. Obviously one of the lowest 2003 clk 200 mileage out there but one of the reasons i dont do much mileage is because of the price to run my Merc.

seanoc67

Yes, Only 3,200 miles a year.. Obviously one of the lowest 2003 clk 200 mileage out there but one of the reasons i dont do much mileage is because of the price to run my Merc.,,,,,

Bpmull

The thing is diesels are good on fuel on long trips and motorways. A 520d won't do anywhere near 50mpg around town. So if you only do town driving then there mighten be as much of a saving as you think fuel wise anyway. So it does depend in what type of driving you do. I can see your point about the 523i though that there's no point in buying it if you have to leave it parked up because it too expensive to run.

seanoc67

Exactly, Because I dont like a sluggish car or anything too noisy and especially if its gonna give me a heap of problems because I find personally with bmw's maybe not the 2010 upwards but ones before that you have to be safe on picking the model because they can lead to engine problems. My brother has a 640d gran coupe and you would never think its a diesel and its so economical but thats because everything is new and updated eg efficient dynamics etc etc. Sandra,

The diesel for 3000 miles a year over the petrol ?

What's the difference in tax between the two and the purchase price , miles etc ?

Surely if you can afford either 5 series then the difference in tax would hardly break the bank ?

Bpmull

In terms of 520d the 163bhp engine alot more reliable the 177bhp caused plenty of trouble especially with timming chains. The 177bhp was out from about 2007ish. So you would be better of with an earlier 163bhp version.

seanoc67

Around €300 in tax difference. But they're just some points i was raising, Im just on two minds which one i should pick especially over fuel economy. I understand i dot do much mileage but its the fact that i dont want a beautiful car sitting in the garden with the petrol reserve light on it constantly.

seanoc67

seanoc67 wrote: »

Around €300 in tax difference. But they're just some points i was raising, Im just on two minds which one i should pick especially over fuel economy. I understand i dot do much mileage but its the fact that i dont want a beautiful car sitting in the garden with the petrol reserve light on it constantly.

Do you know the difference in mpg between the 2 ?

20 mpg ?

seanoc67

Yes i understand. thats why im on two minds at the moment..

Anan1

seanoc67 wrote: »

Around €300 in tax difference. But they're just some points i was raising, Im just on two minds which one i should pick especially over fuel economy. I understand i dot do much mileage but its the fact that i dont want a beautiful car sitting in the garden with the petrol reserve light on it constantly.

At your mileage, fuel is a very small part of your overall cost of ownership. Your main concern should be depreciation.

Alanstrainor

seanoc67 wrote: »

Yes i understand. thats why im on two minds at the moment..

There should be no two minds about it at your mileage. The diesel car will cost more to buy, and in reality the cost to run either will be negligible at your mileage.

belcampprisoner

http://forums.5series.net/e61-touring-discussion-4/523i-vs-520d-24642/

seanoc67

Yes alan. I took that into consideration aswell because what i find bizarre is that when these cars came out brand new eg the 523i, It was more expensive to but over the 520d but now its vice versa . I understand thats because of the recession but really the 523i is obviously a much better car and maybe even though it will be more expensive to run, Im getting a better car for cheaper.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

At your mileage, fuel is a very small part of your overall cost of ownership. Your main concern should be depreciation.

Exactly!

And could end up costing thousands.

Leonard Hofstadter

We had a thread on this fairly recently, indeed it revolved around changing a petrol powered CLK for a diesel powered E60:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056881322

seanoc67

seanoc67 wrote: »

Yes alan. I took that into consideration aswell because what i find bizarre is that when these cars came out brand new eg the 523i, It was more expensive to but over the 520d but now its vice versa . I understand thats because of the recession but really the 523i is obviously a much better car and maybe even though it will be more expensive to run, Im getting a better car for cheaper.

I think you really know the answer then ?

523I !

seanoc67

Thanks for all your help. I realised its obviously not worth to buy a 520d. 1. Its more expensive to buy, 2. Leading to more issues. 3.. Too noisy.. 523 all the way.

seanoc67

seanoc67 wrote: »

Thanks for all your help. I realised its obviously not worth to buy a 520d. 1. Its more expensive to buy, 2. Leading to more issues. 3.. Too noisy.. 523 all the way.

Indeed and the sound of it should be good too, you won't regret it !

bmwguy

Did you have a thread on this before? If I remember you dont drive the CLK because of heavy fuel consumption, but actually like the car? Changing to either of the BMWs will cost much more in the long run than actually driving your CLK. If you just want a change, go for it but this is not a money saving idea

wersal gummage

Bought a 2005 m sport e60 a few weeks ago. 523i.

Very happy with it and they are great value at the moment.

I would definitely look for a 525 though. Same mpg, tax and (for me at least) insurance. However, I spent 3 months looking for the right car and no clean, reasonably priced 525s popped up in that time. They are few and far between. In the end I settled for the 523.

Do very little mileage and mpg is of no real concern to me. Very happy with the car so far, wouldn't even consider a diesel at your mileage. You will pay a premium for the diesel in the purchase price that you'll probably never make back at your low mileage.

R.O.R

The 523i isn't great to drive. It's not powerful, it's thirsty and and LCI is likely to pop coils left, right and centre. The 520d is better to drive. It doesn't have the "wonderous" 6 cylinder sound track that everyone always harps on about, but it has a radio which I find preferable on long journeys.

Did I ever mention the LCI 523i that had at least 13 injectors replaced? Yet, not a single timing chain failure on any of the many N57 engined cars on the books.

rebel.ranter

I've physically seen two N47 Timing chain failures. One 2008 520d Sport that was repaired for €1,600 by an independent mechanic, the other was a 2008 318d, cost €6,000 at the dealers (done under warranty after a lot of argument). There are at least a further two people on BMW-Driver.net with the issue too. So the issues do really exist.
With regard to the LCI 525i, this is actually a 2996cc engine, N53 with 218BHP &176g/km. so it is not to be confused with the pre LCI 523i which is only 2497cc with 190BHP & 174g/km (not relevant for motor tax but maybe VRT).
It is very hard to find a second hand 523i or 525i here or even in the UK.
I'm a BMW fan but I wouldn't buy an N47 engined BMW in a fit! (That's the 2.0L 4 cylinder diesel).
Get a 2.0L Mondeo or a 1.9L Skoda Superb if you want/need a diesel....

Leonard Hofstadter

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I've physically seen two N47 Timing chain failures. One 2008 520d Sport that was repaired for €1,600 by an independent mechanic, the other was a 2008 318d, cost €6,000 at the dealers (done under warranty after a lot of argument). There are at least a further two people on BMW-Driver.net with the issue too. So the issues do really exist.
With regard to the LCI 525i, this is actually a 2996cc engine, N53 with 218BHP &176g/km. so it is not to be confused with the pre LCI 523i which is only 2497cc with 190BHP & 174g/km (not relevant for motor tax but maybe VRT).
It is very hard to find a second hand 523i or 525i here or even in the UK.
I'm a BMW fan but I wouldn't buy an N47 engined BMW in a fit! (That's the 2.0L 4 cylinder diesel).
Get a 2.0L Mondeo or a 1.9L Skoda Superb if you want/need a diesel....

Pre LCI 523i is 174 bhp. Post LCI (the one to avoid) is 190. All E60 525is are 218 bhp, apart from the 04 models, which have the M54 engines from the E39 and consequently have 192 bhp.

I also wouldn't touch an N47 with a bargepole, but then again, I would never buy a 5 series unless it had six cylinders. The 520d is also too noisy for an executive car, the models with the correct number of cylinders sound so much nicer when you want to have fun, and are quieter than the fours when you don't.

Only 750 to tax a 525i is great, seems like some fun can be eventually be had again ?

218 HP for the 2008 seems a little low for a 3.0 L ? 199 lbs torque. That not feel slow in a car that size ? quoted 7.7 seconds 0-62 isn't too bad. Audi can get that and more from a 2.0L .

Anyone know if the 525i has issues with LPG ?

The 530I knocks the tax up to 1200, shame as 260 would be nicer especially another 20lbs torque or so.

The jump in tax wouldn't seem worth it though as the performance isn't a huge jump.

Matt Simis

Deleted User wrote: »

Only 750 to tax a 525i is great, seems like some fun can be eventually be had again ?

218 HP for the 2008 seems a little low for a 3.0 L ? 199 lbs torque. That not feel slow in a car that size ? quoted 7.7 seconds 0-62 isn't too bad. Audi can get that and more from a 2.0L .

The engine size is largely irrelevant in the post CO2 world. Also Audi dont get more than 218 from an NA 2.0.. or even close to it??

You talk about tax as if its an engine/driving attribute, its not. If having fun or a good car was the priority, pay more tax, buy older, pay less in TCO.

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

The engine size is largely irrelevant in the post CO2 world. Also Audi dont get more than 218 from an NA 2.0.. or even close to it??

You talk about tax as if its an engine/driving attribute, its not. If having fun or a good car was the priority, pay more tax, buy older, pay less in TCO.

No Audi don't produce close to 200 HP in their naturally aspirated 4's. But what I was getting at is the power they produce from the smaller engines, though 6 cylinders would be nice. The Audi would probably be higher to tax too.

Fun is nice, paying 1200 in road tax is not. I have limits as to the amount I'm prepared to pay for fun and I suppose the 2008+ 525i strikes the best balance between tax and fuel consumption and purchase cost for an 08. Finding one though with the spec I want would be a challenge and in excellent condition, has to be leather. I would imagine this is where I'd have to go to the U.K, finding one not clocked would also be a challenge I'd say.

But it's something I'll think about before I finally move to electric.

There has to be a LPG station in Carlow Town before I'd make the move though. And I'd have to make sure LPG won't kill it.

seanoc67

Well trust me I've experienced many bmw's, I know what they're like especially if you go for a diesel, Maybe not 2010 models upwards but definitely before that. I understand no car would be perfect but I'd rather a car that pops coils then getting a new timing chain. Its just a catch 22 in my eyes.

@82

Interestingly looking around the web, 25 mpg seems to be average for the 530i and on LPG @82 C l would be almost the same as Diesel at 50 mpg.

Question is would you get 50 mpg with the 3.0L diesel ?

But jaysus you couldn't go for the Diesel at that rate.

rocky

seanoc67 wrote: »

Well trust me I've experienced many bmw's, I know what they're like especially if you go for a diesel, Maybe not 2010 models upwards but definitely before that. I understand no car would be perfect but I'd rather a car that pops coils then getting a new timing chain. Its just a catch 22 in my eyes.

Why do you want an LCI? Pre-LCI 6 cylinder petrols have pretty good reliability...

WacoKid

525i pre 2006 is a 2.5l and post 2006 is a 3.0l engine. If your mileage is low then an auto 6 cylinder petrol is much smoother, especially at low speeds.

Petrols are cheaper to maintain also and i heard that from a BMW mechanic.

Also, as stated there is a premium on diesels as everyone wants one so there is good value on petrols. Pay-on-the-forecourt (diesel) or pay-at-the-pump (petrol).

The exception in all this is the 530d which is really does tick all the boxes, for me anyway and I'm a 525i owner.

seanoc67

Well the reason im looking on buying these particular lci 523 is because its the only i've came across with decent mileage and its a very clean sturdy car. Im just wondering does the 523i give major problems or are they just little things.

rocky

Yes, as pointed multiple times in this thread, the LCI 523i has coilpack and injector trouble, but you seem to be fine with it...

jimgoose

The brother got a 2010 520d some time back. It's a beauty of a car, and seldom gets below 60MPG. However, we both agree it could badly do with a little more engine, and that the 530d would've been a better overall bet, if he could have found a nice one at the time.

seanoc67

Hi Jimgoose my brother has a 131 Bmw 640D gran coupe, and its like a dream to drive. Im sure that would never have problems with its engine well hopefully not but probably wont because its obviously newer efficient dynamics and all eco friendly etc etc. But thats not an option for me. Im just on a catch 22, I feel like i'd need a petrol station out my back garden for the 523i.

jimgoose

seanoc67 wrote: »

Hi Jimgoose my brother has a 131 Bmw 640D gran coupe, and its like a dream to drive. Im sure that would never have problems with its engine well hopefully not but probably wont because its obviously newer efficient dynamics and all eco friendly etc etc. But thats not an option for me. Im just on a catch 22, I feel like i'd need a petrol station out my back garden for the 523i.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the engine, far from it. It's just that it feels somewhat underpowered in a two-ton car. Having said that, the brother is coming from a CLK 320 and I have a three-litre Jag, so our opinions can probably be ignored by most normal people! The 520d is a superb car and very economical to run. You'll enjoy it.

WacoKid

Just to follow on I paid 6k less for my 525i than a lower spec 520d albeit M Sport also. My combined mpg is 25, not sure what 520d is.

All I know is for the miles I do it was the right approach.

Tea 1000

seanoc67 wrote: »

Hi Jimgoose my brother has a 131 Bmw 640D gran coupe, and its like a dream to drive. Im sure that would never have problems with its engine well hopefully not but probably wont because its obviously newer efficient dynamics and all eco friendly etc etc. But thats not an option for me. Im just on a catch 22, I feel like i'd need a petrol station out my back garden for the 523i.

Why would it never have problems with the engine? All that efficient dynamics crap that you talk about is exactly what's killing the reliability on these engines.

jimgoose

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Why would it never have problems with the engine? All that efficient dynamics crap that you talk about is exactly what's killing the reliability on these engines.

As far as I can see from the brother's yoke "that efficient dynamics crap" mainly consists of that automatic stop/start business that drives me nucken futs. That's why the use deep-cycle batteries in 'em, and luckily enough a recent ECU update that allows you to turn it off properly.

The rest of it is much the same stuff that any modern EFI rig does, only faster and more often. Oh, and that brake thing for charging the battery.

rocky

rocky wrote: »

Yes, as pointed multiple times in this thread, the LCI 523i has coilpack and injector trouble, but you seem to be fine with it...

So what BMW is trouble free then ? what about 530i ? The diesels are supposed to give lots of trouble too.

rocky

Deleted User wrote: »

So what BMW is trouble free then ? what about 530i ? The diesels are supposed to give lots of trouble too.

In my estimation, an N52 powered BMW is reliable, which means 05-07 pre LCI. Including the 530i.