To start my own business or not...

Ellie1994

Hi everyone,
I'm 19 and have had no look finding a summer job like many other students-HOWEVER... I have come up with a plan.. i'm studying Social Media Marketing and its a brand new course, because of this there is no one in the country with a specific qualification yet.. I was thinking of setting up my own little business.. I would help businesses get onto social network sites and manage the sites until they are comfortable enough to manage it on their own. of course i would be charging a small fee .. what do you think? is this a really stupid idea? thank you in advance!

MissFlitworth

No, not a stupid idea at all, plenty of businesses probably could do with a hand getting their social media up & running and understanding how to manage it properly. Just be aware though that there are genuinely loads & loads of people working professionally in social media in Ireland. They tend not to have done specific social media courses but have professional experience and a talent for it (and loads of connections). So absolutely go for it but it might be a good idea to look locally & think small for potential customers first

Swampy

Great idea. Go for it.

Ellie1994

MissFlitworth wrote: »

No, not a stupid idea at all, plenty of businesses probably could do with a hand getting their social media up & running and understanding how to manage it properly. Just be aware though that there are genuinely loads & loads of people working professionally in social media in Ireland. They tend not to have done specific social media courses but have professional experience and a talent for it (and loads of connections). So absolutely go for it but it might be a good idea to look locally & think small for potential customers first

oh I was definitely going to target local businesses so no chain store or franchises as they would have all their marketing done in HQ i assume!
thanks for the positivity

belcampprisoner

its a good idea if you can finance yourself for a while

Zascar

I work in this area and it's growing massively with every business scratching their head wondering what they should be doing - and wondering who can help them with it. Trust me If you are any good and honestly know even the basics well, you'll be able to find business no worries. So much available out there for free also, HubSpot have loads of great blog posts and articles, seomoz too and countless other blogs.

Get someone to help you with a business plan but if you can get a bunch of clients to pay you a monthly retainer for looking after it all - you could have a nice little business for yourself. If I could turn back time now that's what I would have done years ago.

Ellie1994

Zascar wrote: »

I work in this area and it's growing massively with every business scratching their head wondering what they should be doing - and wondering who can help them with it. Trust me If you are any good and honestly know even the basics well, you'll be able to find business no worries. So much available out there for free also, HubSpot have loads of great blog posts and articles, seomoz too and countless other blogs.

Get someone to help you with a business plan but if you can get a bunch of clients to pay you a monthly retainer for looking after it all - you could have a nice little business for yourself. If I could turn back time now that's what I would have done years ago.

Really? god you ,make it sound all so easy! haha how much of a retainer would you recommend?

L.Jenkins

Just dropping in to provide an idea. You could join LinkedIn to start expanding on connections and the possibility of drumming up some business as hard as that could be.

Ray Palmer

I don't want to put a damp blanket on this but I don't see the value or where the money is. A web page is incredibly cheap to get done now and for small businesses there isn't much money to be made off them.

Social media is really all about the constant updates more so than have a presence. So who is going to update it? If it is your business then you are working quite a bit and have to be in constant contact with your clients. If is them they won't keep it up to date and/or constantly ringing you about issues.

How much will a small company pay for this service and what return will they actually get? Monthly pay model or once off fee?

The companies likely to benefit and use such a service are likely to be savvy enough to be able to set-up accounts themselves. Lots of businesses won't really get much out being on social media either.

It would be about quantity and therefore difficult to organise and get right.

This is kind of what is included in a website package now with the updates managed by the customer. They don't really charge more for it other than the website creation. So you are competing with free or you have to start doing websites and there is very little money in that now unless you have bigger clients with fancy websites.

I don't see it as separate business just an add on to setting up a website and probably not one charged for.

Ellie1994

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I don't want to put a damp blanket on this but I don't see the value or where the money is. A web page is incredibly cheap to get done now and for small businesses there isn't much money to be made off them.

Social media is really all about the constant updates more so than have a presence. So who is going to update it? If it is your business then you are working quite a bit and have to be in constant contact with your clients. If is them they won't keep it up to date and/or constantly ringing you about issues.

How much will a small company pay for this service and what return will they actually get? Monthly pay model or once off fee?

The companies likely to benefit and use such a service are likely to be savvy enough to be able to set-up accounts themselves. Lots of businesses won't really get much out being on social media either.

It would be about quantity and therefore difficult to organise and get right.

This is kind of what is included in a website package now with the updates managed by the customer. They don't really charge more for it other than the website creation. So you are competing with free or you have to start doing websites and there is very little money in that now unless you have bigger clients with fancy websites.

I don't see it as separate business just an add on to setting up a website and probably not one charged for.

I completely see what your saying but social media marketing isnt all about constructing a website. Its about harnessing a FREE tool that can keep your business in the mind of your market! And in my eyes social media isnt all sell, sell, sell but its a way of getting to know your market and customers in a way that doesnt annoy or deter them from your shop. Do you know what the analytics are like on Facebook alone? you can learn all sorts of information that you would have been able to know before without bombarding everyone with invasive questionnaires.. ,and know one likes that!

Also I admit social media marketing on its own would be a fairly rubbish way of marketing your company BUT that is why it's designed to be used in conjunction with traditional marketing. Only a fraction of their time and energy is spent on social media marketing.

Sites called aggrigators that gather all the information from different social media sites and when you compose a post it is pushed out to all your sites making it easier to manage and less time consuming. Also my aim is to find someone in the small business who like social media and show them how to manage it as they would be able to write more passionately about their work then I ever could!

And finally, i'm not being niave about this. I appreciate that some people do not see he benefits and think it is all 'just a fad' and to be honest I've taken my fair share of people telling me that i've done the wrong thing and i'm wasting money and time on my course. I'm not trying to force this onto anyone, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, if their open to social media marketing then of course i will be there to guide them and educate them in how to use it effectively. So i take everything you say on board but their are some people out their who are willing to see what social media marketing can do for their business.

(ps. I aim to charge for the hours i spend setting everything up for them and the initial first posts. so essentially it would be a once off fee)

Lyn256

Great idea if you're not working and have nothing to lose.

(This will also be fab on your CV in the future now matter how successful you are-shows drive and ambition and that your a self starter)

Have you anyone (through family and friends that you can get started with-do a good job for them and then you can use them when you talk to other businesses)

What you'll find in the market is that some business people know a good bit but others now little.

When you're dealing with businesses-focus on what it can do for them-the benefit- not what you going to do.

Maybe take a look at some businesses locally and see who seems to be doing a bit but not a lot and target them with some ideas of what you can do to bring additional business in for them.

Hope that helps-best of luck!

Ellie1994

Lyn256 wrote: »

Great idea if you're not working and have nothing to lose.

(This will also be fab on your CV in the future now matter how successful you are-shows drive and ambition and that your a self starter)

Have you anyone (through family and friends that you can get started with-do a good job for them and then you can use them when you talk to other businesses)

What you'll find in the market is that some business people know a good bit but others now little.

When you're dealing with businesses-focus on what it can do for them-the benefit- not what you going to do.

Maybe take a look at some businesses locally and see who seems to be doing a bit but not a lot and target them with some ideas of what you can do to bring additional business in for them.

Hope that helps-best of luck!

Thank You!

Ray Palmer

After you have described it I see even less value and don't see who would benefit.

You will have a problem with people looking at a 19 year old and believing you know what you are talking about.

I really don't want to stop you pursuing something you believe in but what you just said about the benefits and how it would work sounds useless.

You effectively are talking about a consulting business but you don't have years of experience behind you. The businesses that could benefit from this are going to be incredibly limited. It isn't the fad element it is what use is such information and the people who use such information probably already have it.


Name a business type and size you reckon will hire you because I am at a loss to who would want the service. It kind of sounds like a benefit to large companies who will already have it while a smaller company won't benefit from the information and doesn't need it.

I worked in market research for a few years and have a fair idea of who wants and requires such information. Research the demand before you spend too much time on it.


In the future I can see the qualification getting you a job but I only see it as an auxiliary service in an established company.

Don't set-up a business to do this and try to use one of the direct hire sites to see if you can sell your services. If that works set-up a business

Ellie1994

How can a benefit be useless??? isnt that a contradiction??

I understand that many businesses have already attempted to do their own social media marketing but the question is if thier doing it effectively and from what i've seen their not.. A page is set up and them nothing is done with it.. EVER! that is a perfect example of how not to do it!

Their are plenty of businesses that would appreciate some assistance in this area for example clothing stores, pubs, nite clubs, restaurants, vets, bookies, hairdressers, pharmacy's, family run supermarkets. etc

I see that your (strongly) opposed to this but do you not think i would have put some thought into it before i even considered doing it?
and anyway I'm unemployed.. I've nothing to do for 3 months of the summer- this idea requires very little money to start up (which is essential as I'm down to my last €100) so I have nothing to loose.
I could take your advice and not try at all but I'm afraid I'd go insane so I might as well give it a go.. whats the worst that could happen?

Ray Palmer

Ellie1994 wrote: »

How can a benefit be useless??? isnt that a contradiction??

I understand that many businesses have already attempted to do their own social media marketing but the question is if thier doing it effectively and from what i've seen their not.. A page is set up and them nothing is done with it.. EVER! that is a perfect example of how not to do it!

Their are plenty of businesses that would appreciate some assistance in this area for example clothing stores, pubs, nite clubs, restaurants, vets, bookies, hairdressers, pharmacy's, family run supermarkets. etc

I see that your (strongly) opposed to this but do you not think i would have put some thought into it before i even considered doing it?
and anyway I'm unemployed.. I've nothing to do for 3 months of the summer- this idea requires very little money to start up (which is essential as I'm down to my last €100) so I have nothing to loose.
I could take your advice and not try at all but I'm afraid I'd go insane so I might as well give it a go.. whats the worst that could happen?

Ok I don't see a benefit. What I was commenting on is what you called benefits, I am not seeing it.

I am not strongly opposed to the idea I am not seeing value. As you are essentially going to market the idea what you have said isn't enticing me. Think of me as a potential customer and you are trying to sell your service. I am being quite moderate in my queries, somebody paying will be a lot more sceptical.

My advice is to try it but limit the effort before you can see if you can get paid for doing it. See the link below to see what people offer. There are tons of teenagers who offer to boost Google rating and twitter etc... for $10.

The reason people don't use the social media is it heavy maintenance. Is there a real benefit? Is somebody going to follow a twitter feed on a local hairdressers? Re they going to like it on Facebook and welcome messages? Are the woman in their 60s going to pay attention to such things.

To sell this your customers' customers need to be hooked into these things.

If you are going to do this I would offer my services for free to a customer you can show benefits. It has to have a benefit and you have to show it.

Do website design as well to increase possible revenue.

Lyn256

I disagree Ray, the one area that small businesses are really interested in finding more about is Social Media. I. myself did a course through DLR Enterprise Board last year-I couldn't get onto the first course I wanted as it was full.
I (and others) came away from the course with some knowledge but also the recognition that there is a lot more to it and that there is a lot more to know and that it is probably a service that should be outsourced to someone with indepth knowledge of the area. I did leave the course recognising that it is a powerful resource that can be harnessed by small businesses if they have know-how

I'm not running my own business at the moment but I know that if I was it would be a service that I would outsource and one that I would be interested in talking to someone about if they had knowledge, didn't cost me too much and could bring value (extra customers/extra sales) to my business!

Why discourage the OP, Ray-setting up a small business is a fantastic learning opportunity for her whether she is successful or not.

Good luck OP-hope it works out for you!!

Mrs OBumble

Moved from Work & Jobs.


OP, Ray Palmer clearly doesn't understand the business area you are in. Possibly he's just a bit old fashioned about social media - or just doesn't realise how social-media-illiterate some people are.

Personally I believe that there might just be a market for you - at the moment anyway. But you will need to come across as credible, and also network with the right people to get referred to potential clients who will pay (small businesses are notorious for not doing so). Also, make you sure that you are always demonstrating benefit to your customers: is showing that they are getting more sales, not just more Facebook "likes" (which are worthless in themselves).

Ray Palmer

Lyn256 wrote: »

Why discourage the OP, Ray-setting up a small business is a fantastic learning opportunity for her whether she is successful or not.

I am letting him know the reality. While studying something you may well be lied to about the importance and have an altered view of the market.

Take a small local hairdressers with maybe 3 hairdressers. What can social media do? You let your customers know about specials (if you do them). Now your customer base is primarily middle aged to older woman. How many use social media? Posting up on your social media is going to hit how many of your customers? Are you going to entice a bunch of new customers? Will a flyer shot in the area be better?

Bookies, pubs and chemists would be similar IMHO. Benefit to a night club alright and maybe a clothes shop. Social media does not add value to many businesses. I am linked to a few of these ill advised business such as an alarm company and a wardrobe makers. Knowing there is a new alarm box and a wardrobe deal doesn't help as I am unlikely to purchase another such item for a good few years.

If somebody is going to spend money on advertising and marketing wants to see a cash return. If there is none then it failed.

Lyn256

Ray-you have it all wrong. In my locality, I follow my hairdressers, a local restaurant, pub and a few others and they post new menus, products, services offers etc and while I don't take up every offer,I've certainly taken up a few and/or forwarded them others that may have an interest in them. It depends on the business-it can be a great 'notice-board' for small retail/service businesses

In particular, one local restaurant that I hadn't been into for years-I've gone in twice in the last few months based on their photos menus and generally engaging me in what they do.
I also follow my local independent shoe shop and have bought shoes for my kids based on photos that they put up.

So social media definitely offers benefits to small businesses if used well. Its not an end in itself but it can offer a much better return on investment when compared to advertising or leaflet drops . . .

Lyn256

Also Ray, the OP learns a few lessons on having a small business. maybe learns what face-to face selling is, gets confidence in dealing with people. The OP, literally, has nothing to lose-why discourage?????
Let them try it out and see how they get on-it will be a real learning experience and certainly third level education can teach you the theory of something-so now the op can get out and see what the practise actually is.

Many great business people learnt most from their failures (not that I expect the OP to fail but at least they have to gumption to try!)

seosamh1980

The one thing I would say is that if you do intend to do this you need to correct your spelling, grammar and punctuation. There are so many errors in your posts and yet you plan on being in charge of people's online presence?

Zascar

Ray what experience do you have in the online world can I ask? I'm not sure you understand the challenges that small and medium businesses face with online marketing. I work with them every day so i do. Trust me it is a lot more than social media. Someone with even a basic (Student) knowledge can provide a lot of value so I think the OP has a chance.

I'm flat out and have to run but I'll post more tomorrow.

Bandara

I think its an excellent idea, I've met lots of very busy and successful guys without the time or understanding to cope properly with social media.

A lot of them are simply not doing it as they are afraid of doing it incorrectly, its put on the preputal long finger as anyone they try to speak too frightens the hell out of them with jargon and terms.

If you can save them 5 hours a month for general housekeeping tasks and uploads while leaving the simple stuff to them there is a significent value to them, a value that any smart individual would pay to utilise.

You need to get yourself one or two clients, offer to do it for free, get yourself accustomed to what the demands/issues are and then go after real paying business.

Good luck.

lucky john

This is an area I have been thinking about lately. Apart for the time involved in updating profiles on twitter or facebook I just have absolutely no interest in either of them. Its therefore impossible to be motivated enough to get started on facebook. The problem is, how feasible is it these days not to seriously think of having some kind of presences. It not just for sales you could potentially make but the ones you could actually loose.

I keep an eye on Google analyst most days to see what's happening on my web site. A couple of things interested me in the last while. 30% of visitors now access from mobil devices and in one day 30% of visitors were referred directly from Facebook. Therefore someone on facebook put a link to my site in a comment. I have no idea how to find that comment to know if it was good for me or bad. If I had someone to consult like the op with knowledge in this area and a facebook presence to engage in that conversation I think I would gain a benfit. Conversation that effect my business could be going on around me all the time. So how feasible is it not to be involved in some way? I think any business that sells a product or services may have no choice in the end. The type of business suggested here by the op could definitely have a future.

Age is no hindrance. Most clients will do this remotely so will never need to know. Young and clued in may even be a usp.

Look up a company called Social Media Ireland in Dublin. They are involved in this business. You migh get an idea whats going on in this area from them.

Hanley

Lyn256 wrote: »

Ray-you have it all wrong. In my locality, I follow my hairdressers, a local restaurant, pub and a few others and they post new menus, products, services offers etc and while I don't take up every offer,I've certainly taken up a few and/or forwarded them others that may have an interest in them. It depends on the business-it can be a great 'notice-board' for small retail/service businesses

In particular, one local restaurant that I hadn't been into for years-I've gone in twice in the last few months based on their photos menus and generally engaging me in what they do.
I also follow my local independent shoe shop and have bought shoes for my kids based on photos that they put up.

So social media definitely offers benefits to small businesses if used well. Its not an end in itself but it can offer a much better return on investment when compared to advertising or leaflet drops . . .

Big plus one to this. I'm calling a dentist tomorrow because of their social media presence. I've spent over €100 in the last month in Camille because of their Facebook presence. There's numerous other examples in my own life too. Never mind the success of my own biz based mostly off social media activity.

I've attended numerous conferences and workshops mainly because of FB pages.

It's an emerging market that can be VERY beneficial to a biz and given that there's really no capital investment for the OP, I think he'd be mad not to consider it. And would happily speak to him on methods of amplifying my own social media reach if he could be of help.

Ray Palmer

Seeing as people think I am some clueless idiot with no experience in this I have over 17 years experience in IT and 3+ years in market research. I actually know what I am talking about. I also know how to do a cost benefit analysis.

One of the large companies I worked for spent a lot of money on their social media presence in a big project. The bottom line was no increased revenue. There was a claim by the marketing company that it made existing customers happy. This was just them playing around with the stats to show a benefit. I do understand the business and there is little to no benefit for the majority of the businesses suggested by the OP.

Unless your client's customers are into social media there is pretty much no point. You can send out all the news you want but if none of your customers are connected it has no value.

The suggestions I don't know the business is laughable. As most people who work in IT I get asked a lot to sort out IT problems and advise people on what to do. I have designed website for people as per their requests after explaining the value to them not being that great. The reason I don't do it is because there is no money in it because so many people do it. I have years of experience working with major companies and this idea is just a very small portion of work done now as it has been proven to be so useless. To a small business it has very limited use and none for many business types.

For those that questioned my knowledge what is yours?

I meant to put this link in an earlier post.

https://www.elance.com/p/lpg/marketing/social-media-marketers?rid=1TN5N&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=C-Marketing-Specific-Person-MB&utm_term=%2Bmarketers%20%2Bsocial%20%2Bmedia&ad=22579184298&bmt=b&adpos=1t2&gclid=CKL236WbhrcCFfQ72wodYyQAFA

Hanley

If all you're doing on social media is pitching clients offers and telling them about deals, and not trying to provide useable, timely and relevant information to build a relationship with them - you're wasting your time

At least 80+% of RevFit Facebook and newsletter activity is sharing articles, information and useable tips that people who have liked the page can use and will enjoy reading and learning from. Anything else is a waste of time.

So, if your idea of social media activity is the former and not the latter, you don't know what you're talking about despite working in a related industry. And if you do think of the latter when talking about social media activity, then I can't possibly see how you conclude there's no benefit. Especially given my specific n=1 examples above.

Atomico

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Seeing as people think I am some clueless idiot with no experience in this I have over 17 years experience in IT and 3+ years in market research. I actually know what I am talking about. I also know how to do a cost benefit analysis.

One of the large companies I worked for spent a lot of money on their social media presence in a big project. The bottom line was no increased revenue. There was a claim by the marketing company that it made existing customers happy. This was just them playing around with the stats to show a benefit. I do understand the business and there is little to no benefit for the majority of the businesses suggested by the OP.

Unless your client's customers are into social media there is pretty much no point. You can send out all the news you want but if none of your customers are connected it has no value.

The suggestions I don't know the business is laughable. As most people who work in IT I get asked a lot to sort out IT problems and advise people on what to do. I have designed website for people as per their requests after explaining the value to them not being that great. The reason I don't do it is because there is no money in it because so many people do it. I have years of experience working with major companies and this idea is just a very small portion of work done now as it has been proven to be so useless. To a small business it has very limited use and none for many business types.

For those that questioned my knowledge what is yours?

I meant to put this link in an earlier post.

https://www.elance.com/p/lpg/marketing/social-media-marketers?rid=1TN5N&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=C-Marketing-Specific-Person-MB&utm_term=%2Bmarketers%20%2Bsocial%20%2Bmedia&ad=22579184298&bmt=b&adpos=1t2&gclid=CKL236WbhrcCFfQ72wodYyQAFA

Hi Ray,

I have a lot of experience in online marketing, mainly online advertising, SEO and social media. No offense now, but the two bolded quotes above do highlight that you don't know what you are talking about. I will happily tell you I know very little about IT in the true sense of the word (i.e. systems, databases, maintenance, etc), so hopefully you don't mind admitting you don't understand social media

Being experienced in IT doesn't mean you are going to 'get' social media, no more than being an excellent restaurant critic would mean you'd be a whiz behind the scenes in the kitchen.

On the second quote - the reason your company saw no impact (or what you perceived as no impact) on revenue, is because social media is not there to drive revenue directly. It is for branding, awareness, exposure, building a brand, an identity, engaging with your fans and disseminating useful information and content. It also can increase revenue, especially indirectly - but that is not the principal goal.

I can tell you that I have a client who is seeing a revenue increase right now, off the back of an increased investment in social media. This is neither here nor there in some ways, since the expectation that 'doing social media' has to directly increase sales simply isn't there.

You do it to build your brand and build trust, and to develop a community - which will then also be more receptive to purchasing from you or taking whatever action it is you want them to take.

Ray Palmer

Hanley wrote: »

If all you're doing on social media is pitching clients offers and telling them about deals, and not trying to provide useable, timely and relevant information to build a relationship with them - you're wasting your time

At least 80+% of RevFit Facebook and newsletter activity is sharing articles, information and useable tips that people who have liked the page can use and will enjoy reading and learning from. Anything else is a waste of time.

So, if your idea of social media activity is the former and not the latter, you don't know what you're talking about despite working in a related industry. And if you do think of the latter when talking about social media activity, then I can't possibly see how you conclude there's no benefit. Especially given my specific n=1 examples above.

This is a prime example of somebody thinking they are the market and everything they do is the same for everybody else. That isn't the case.

Care to explain your knowledge of the field?

Car to explain how social marketing is going to contact your average 50 year old who doesn't use or own a computer? Maybe they spend 20 minutes on-line a week. Explain to me how posting stories on the company website helps them.

It comes down to who actually uses social media and if they are your customers. If they don't match up there is none to little value. Trendy clothes shop great, little boutique shop for woman in their 60s not so great.

As for all the content, the OP is not offering that so it is a heavy maintenance that the customer has to do. Does this all sound like I don't know what I am talking about? The way I see it you sound like you haven't considered the whole market.

edanto

@Ellie1994 Go for it. Make a list of local/small businesses that you think are missing out on social media, and approach them with a package. Make sure they understand exactly what you'll be doing - will you just be setting up the page for them or will you be posting content regularly?

Posting content for them comes with a lot of risks, and you might be better off coaching them to post items themselves - maybe your initial package is that you set up f'book/twitter, and do a 1h session with them (by phone/join.me) weekly for 3 months to help them build their brand online. You might well find plenty of businesses that will commit to spending €500 on that.

Particularly since you are just testing the waters, you don't want to be locked into supporting someone for ages with all their techie problems. But by all means, if it seems like they need a new website/emailing system, partner up with someone that can solve that problem and give you a commission.

As you can tell from the thread here, not everyone thinks it's a great idea in practise, but some do. Key thing is, there's no shortage of good ideas when it comes to starting a business, it's really all about execution and hard work. Good luck, and it'd be great if you came back to the thread here at the end of the summer and told us how it worked out for you.

Ray Palmer

Atomico wrote: »

Hi Ray,

I have a lot of experience in online marketing, mainly online advertising, SEO and social media. No offense now, but the two bolded quotes above do highlight that you don't know what you are talking about. I will happily tell you I know very little about IT in the true sense of the word (i.e. systems, databases, maintenance, etc), so hopefully you don't mind admitting you don't understand social media

Being experienced in IT doesn't mean you are going to 'get' social media, no more than being an excellent restaurant critic would mean you'd be a whiz behind the scenes in the kitchen.

On the second quote - the reason your company saw no impact (or what you perceived as no impact) on revenue, is because social media is not there to drive revenue directly. It is for branding, awareness, exposure, building a brand, an identity, engaging with your fans and disseminating useful information and content. It also can increase revenue, especially indirectly - but that is not the principal goal.

I can tell you that I have a client who is seeing a revenue increase right now, off the back of an increased investment in social media. This is neither here nor there in some ways, since the expectation that 'doing social media' has to directly increase sales simply isn't there.

You do it to build your brand and build trust, and to develop a community - which will then also be more receptive to purchasing from you or taking whatever action it is you want them to take.

Actually the market research I did was all about the impact of marketing and brand awareness. So low and behold I do know a lot about brand awareness.

What you seem to miss is brand awareness is an issue that most small businesses don't really get a benefit from. It is generally the preserve of larger companies. There is an element of it on a smaller scale but it does not scale well.

I do take a simple approach to marketing. It either increases revenue or it doesn't. As I have said it depends on your target market and social media marketing only works for certain market sections. I understand social media for what it is the same as a web presence. Maintain it or don't use it. This is huge problem as the customer is only going to be shown how to do it.

As for the company I was working for not getting revenue from their campaign this was a big deal. I spent months working on a product specifically for social-media customers. The didn't get sales and the ages of people connecting was pretty far away from the target customers. This is after a marketing company telling us how it would all work. I did reports on who was connecting and sales. An analytical approach to see if it was working. It didn't pint blank.

One of the benefits touted was being able to analysis customers due to information gathered. If it only small section use such media it isn't much use. If those people don't buy the service and we hope brand awareness will means years to come they will buy that isn't very effective. I have heard a lot of marketing speil in my life that sounds like religion. Quantifiable results are blooding important when shelling out money. Market research quantifies marketing. Good example is the creature comfort ads, people loved the ads and they were massively popular but market research showed people thought they were for gas and not electricity. Marketing fail.

Social media has it's place but it isn't for every business. There has been very little actual benefits described by the OPs proposal. Treat me like a customer who wants it explained how it will increase my revenue, I doubt brand awareness is high on many small businesses.

Peterdalkey

IT people should be legally barred from messing with anything to do with website design, social media and customers. They are backend operators and should just deal with the data. They know nothing about design, marketing or communications and are the reason that most larger companies make a complete mess of their online presence .... They think it is their area because computers are used... If that logic were true, they would be responsible for all finance, admin etc etc functions,

OP social media is great for lots of businesses especially local or B2C but is generally a waste of space for B2B sellers, stick to the former and you will find a ready market crying out for low cost solutions and knowledge... Most businesses are in desperate need of more custom and sales to survive. The tough bit will be getting off your ass and knocking on the doors selling your service. Do that and you will have a busy fulfilling and rewarding summer..

Cheers

Peter

Atomico

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Actually the market research I did was all about the impact of marketing and brand awareness. So low and behold I do know a lot about brand awareness.

What you seem to miss is brand awareness is an issue that most small businesses don't really get a benefit from. It is generally the preserve of larger companies. There is an element of it on a smaller scale but it does not scale well.

You don't know anything about it, sorry! Brand awareness is 'brand' + 'awareness', very simple. Are you saying that Jane's hairdressers which has just opened up doesn't need local residents becoming aware of her new business? That's madness.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I do take a simple approach to marketing. It either increases revenue or it doesn't.

Would you say the only function of marketing is to increase revenue?!

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As I have said it depends on your target market and social media marketing only works for certain market sections. I understand social media for what it is the same as a web presence. Maintain it or don't use it. This is huge problem as the customer is only going to be shown how to do it.

It does depend on the target market and it works better for some market sectors than others, that is for sure. There are very few businesses which can't benefit from it though, and also you haven't mentioned the fact that different channels work better for certain sectors than others!

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As for the company I was working for not getting revenue from their campaign this was a big deal. I spent months working on a product specifically for social-media customers. The didn't get sales and the ages of people connecting was pretty far away from the target customers. This is after a marketing company telling us how it would all work. I did reports on who was connecting and sales. An analytical approach to see if it was working. It didn't pint blank.

This is mildly infuriating - why as an IT guy who has some market research experience, would you be working on social media for a critical project?

The fact that the people connecting were far from the target market just goes to show that the approach was deeply flawed, and it's no wonder it failed! One of the big advantages of online marketing over traditional media is the ability to target your market really precisely. Did you look at Facebook ads for example, where you can target really specifically?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

One of the benefits touted was being able to analysis customers due to information gathered. If it only small section use such media it isn't much use. If those people don't buy the service and we hope brand awareness will means years to come they will buy that isn't very effective. I have heard a lot of marketing speil in my life that sounds like religion. Quantifiable results are blooding important when shelling out money. Market research quantifies marketing. Good example is the creature comfort ads, people loved the ads and they were massively popular but market research showed people thought they were for gas and not electricity. Marketing fail.

Correct re quantifiable results, which can be achieved when you know what you are doing and you have someone with years of experience in the field!!

Don't intend to be harsh but it's a bit frustrating when you could have had someone with great experience and a track record working on that project, win-win for all parties when results could have been achieved I am sure.

Great thread!

I'm launching a new product soon and was investigating hiring a social media company. Its skin care so I was looking at companies specialising in that.
So I found one of the more experienced ones and they were charging 6K month for ongoing service. With the margins Im getting as exclusive distributor I worked out I would have to sell 667 units a month to justify the cost.

So while its a branding exercise launching a new product and getting it seen by as many people as possible, the cost needs to be justified, and I need to be seeing such an investment generate X amount of income. I figure I could track a lot of orders through blogs, facebook analytics and so on and get a rough idea of what the ROI was for my investment, albeit some of it monetary and some of it brand awareness.
I asked the company the question about revenue, hoping to get back some numbers on viewer numbers and so on, so I should be roughly able to calculate the cost of acquiring a customer, factor in the whole brand awareness thing and decide whether to go for it or not.
They never replied.

So my advice OP is if your going to do this, you need to be able to talk to the businesses your approaching about numbers. If your gona charge a shop 100 euro a month to handle it for them sell it to them via the numbers. Advertising is about the cost of acquiring a customer in my view, and facebook and twitter are basically a form of advertising.
If you can say your 100 euro is going to get you viewed by 1000 people a month, 20 of which are going to purchase something from you, in this business owners mind it would justify the cost. Now I know you cant say that with any degree of certainty until you build up some stats, but you dont have to guarantee anything, and a good pitch should win the customer.

Personally I think there are better ideas for a new business because there is a lot of competition out there, and Ray may be right it might just not work. But if it doesnt its not the end of the world at all. Probably it will be your sales skills that will be the difference between it working or not.

Hanley

How long is a piece of string Q alert, buuuut what's a reasonable price to be quoted for this sorta thing?!

Lots of factors I know, but any standard costing models?

Lyn256

Social media is an effective tactical marketing tool. If a business has a particular target market in mind, they can very effectively use social media to target that particular market.
No tool is completely effective. But if the target market of a business is a market that engages in social media-then its a great tool.
Think about leaflets drops or local advertising (the mainstay of many small businesses) - social media can be a far more effective way of getting in front of your desired target market.
Some businesses do digital marketing well, some don't-same as any form of marketing.

If you can show a small business that investing . . .say €250 with you and that will bring them €1000-€2500-€5000 in extra business-well its a bit of a no-brainer!!

So many small businesses just don;t get it-its not just about putting up a facebook page and getting 'likes' but creating content that engages your audience, capture their information and send them relevant offers/services/enticements to spend money with them!

Brush up on your sales skills and remember that when you're selling your service that its not about you but them and what you can offer them

Hope that helps

Ray Palmer

Peterdalkey wrote: »

IT people should be legally barred from messing with anything to do with website design, social media and customers. They are backend operators and should just deal with the data. They know nothing about design, marketing or communications and are the reason that most larger companies make a complete mess of their online presence .... They think it is their area because computers are used... If that logic were true, they would be responsible for all finance, admin etc etc functions,

Most idiotic ill informed comment I have read in a long time. It shows a complete lack of understanding of an entire sector. It doesn't sound like you have any experience on the subject.

I can assure you I know a lot about design. You assume once somebody works in IT they are all developers. I have done design courses and spent a couple of years working on UI. I have spent years working with customers.

Most large companies would actually use a marketing department so the on-line presence is managed by them . If they don't have a marketing department they hire a company. So the mess has nothing to do with the developer. The whole thing is devised by marketing. They determine the design mostly and you learn pretty quickly they don't listen so you deliver what they want rather than what they need.

As for design only the very big companies hire graphic designers for their products so the majority of things are actually designed by a group of people. Made up of sales, project manager, testers and developers etc... Then there is the UAT testing. This very site is IT developed.

Ray Palmer

Atomico wrote: »

Don't intend to be harsh but it's a bit frustrating when you could have had someone with great experience and a track record working on that project, win-win for all parties when results could have been achieved I am sure.

I had typed out a bigger response but it went walkies.

A new shop does need to become known. What is more effective flyers or social media? Which is cheaper considering an external consultant has to be used for one?

Marketing is about increasing revenue, the exception would be health warnings and government type information. For a business it is revenue and it all boils down to that. Brand awareness is to increase revenue or retain it. No point in customers liking the product but not buying it.

I was on the project working on the product, I needed to be informed of the planned marketing and the result. That is why I had the information. I did not design nor determine the marketing strategy. A marketing company was, one specialising in social media.

We heard all the talk about how it could be targeted and how the product would sell. Estimates of 40,000 sales etc... 143 sales was the result. The figures were pretty conclusive our target audience of 55+ were not being hit. They simply don't spend enough time on line nor on social media sites.

So a large well known company with a marketing company and a large budget didn't make money using social media. The project came from management because they heard the buzz of social media as the way forward. The believed the marketing company and hired them. I had nothing to do with the design of this campaign.

Your claim is that it didn't work because of me and others in the IT department. We had no say and delivered what they wanted. It was either the marketing company or the medium. You seem to think it was the companies fault but they have years of experience. Maybe it was their fault and the medium was fine but I think it was the medium as it simply only reaches a select audience. Having been around when the dot com bubble burst I think it is clear that the importance is overrate and I have direct experience showing that.

JD Dublin

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Most idiotic ill informed comment I have read in a long time. It shows a complete lack of understanding of an entire sector. It doesn't sound like you have any experience on the subject.

I can assure you I know a lot about design. You assume once somebody works in IT they are all developers. I have done design courses and spent a couple of years working on UI. I have spent years working with customers.

Most large companies would actually use a marketing department so the on-line presence is managed by them . If they don't have a marketing department they hire a company. So the mess has nothing to do with the developer. The whole thing is devised by marketing. They determine the design mostly and you learn pretty quickly they don't listen so you deliver what they want rather than what they need.

As for design only the very big companies hire graphic designers for their products so the majority of things are actually designed by a group of people. Made up of sales, project manager, testers and developers etc... Then there is the UAT testing. This very site is IT developed.

Actually Ray it is a comment from an experienced businessperson who has ( probably ) handled the dirty end of the stick when it comes to paying for these sort of activities.

If in doubt about Peter Dalkey's bona fides then a little digging on this website will show you he knows what he talking about. You'll also see he calls a spade a spade - sometimes to the annoyance of the shovellers out there.

The point about all of this is that someone who knows F all about the workings of a computer can be great at social media i.e. marketing, and vice versa. All the IT experience and qualifications in the world won't make up for that. Just like architects, some can't draw for nuts, yet can visualise the greatest buildings in the world. They may not have any formal qualifications etc but can produce great design.

OP your idea is great, if you want to PM me I have a business and am looking for this service exactly. You may not retire on what I pay you, but you will have income for as long as you can do a job on social media for me.

QUOTE So a large well known company with a marketing company and a large budget didn't make money using social media. The project came from management because they heard the buzz of social media as the way forward. The believed the marketing company and hired them. I had nothing to do with the design of this campaign.

QUOTE Your claim is that it didn't work because of me and others in the IT department. We had no say and delivered what they wanted. It was either the marketing company or the medium. You seem to think it was the companies fault but they have years of experience. Maybe it was their fault and the medium was fine but I think it was the medium as it simply only reaches a select audience. Having been around when the dot com bubble burst I think it is clear that the importance is overrate and I have direct experience showing that.END QUOTE

Now you are getting to some kernel of truth and you are correct - social media does not work for all consumers. Some of the posters here are of the belief it seems that Social Media is the solution to the world's ills - it isn't, but it can be part of the marketing effort. Ray as you point out it is not for every segment of the market.

Atomico

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I had typed out a bigger response but it went walkies.

A new shop does need to become known. What is more effective flyers or social media? Which is cheaper considering an external consultant has to be used for one?

Marketing is about increasing revenue, the exception would be health warnings and government type information. For a business it is revenue and it all boils down to that. Brand awareness is to increase revenue or retain it. No point in customers liking the product but not buying it.

I was on the project working on the product, I needed to be informed of the planned marketing and the result. That is why I had the information. I did not design nor determine the marketing strategy. A marketing company was, one specialising in social media.

We heard all the talk about how it could be targeted and how the product would sell. Estimates of 40,000 sales etc... 143 sales was the result. The figures were pretty conclusive our target audience of 55+ were not being hit. They simply don't spend enough time on line nor on social media sites.

So a large well known company with a marketing company and a large budget didn't make money using social media. The project came from management because they heard the buzz of social media as the way forward. The believed the marketing company and hired them. I had nothing to do with the design of this campaign.

Your claim is that it didn't work because of me and others in the IT department. We had no say and delivered what they wanted. It was either the marketing company or the medium. You seem to think it was the companies fault but they have years of experience. Maybe it was their fault and the medium was fine but I think it was the medium as it simply only reaches a select audience. Having been around when the dot com bubble burst I think it is clear that the importance is overrate and I have direct experience showing that.

If this product was aimed at over 55 year olds, and the sole or main approach to reaching them was social media, then it sounds like both the company you work for AND the marketing company were fairly clueless.

That age group do not spend as much time online as younger demographics, and as with all marketing strategies, a multi-pronged approach is required. It's not like you can launch a social media campaign, sit back and wait for the orders to roll in.

Also, you are still looking at this from the point of view of social media > revenue, which as I said is not the case. It is more an indirect driver of revenue.

Why, for example, did your company not look at online advertising instead, e.g. Google AdWords? Or search engine optimisation?

If you use one method of targeting a particular market / demographic, then you are putting all your eggs in one basket. So you can't be hugely surprised if the strategy then flops.

Ray Palmer

JD Dublin wrote: »

Now you are getting to some kernel of truth and you are correct - social media does not work for all consumers. Some of the posters here are of the belief it seems that Social Media is the solution to the world's ills - it isn't, but it can be part of the marketing effort. Ray as you point out it is not for every segment of the market.

If you read back that has always been my point. As a stand alone service it isn't a great idea. I believe there is a business there if done right but not as proposed.

As for Peter Dalkey's comment I stand by that to make that statement it would require absence of business knowledge of what and how the IT sector works. He may know business but he doesn't know the IT industry nor how things arrive on a computer to be used.

Peterdalkey

I never knew how Jacobs got the figs into Fig Rolls. I just like them. I do not know how my iPhone ir iPad works, but I don’t need to, they are but tools of doing business and IT is just a functional tool as well. Branding, marketing, service, manufacturing etc etc are the real ways of adding value. IT is but a support function, albeit an important one, in a business, it seems to that many IT people overestimate their own importance in the overall enterprise. No wonder they are getting subbed out more and more.
You seem to have taken my comments above as a personal affront, so perhaps if the hat fits, wear it!

Ray Palmer

Atomico wrote: »

If this product was aimed at over 55 year olds, and the sole or main approach to reaching them was social media, then it sounds like both the company you work for AND the marketing company were fairly clueless.
.

What is the OP suggesting his business will be? He isn't talking about anything other than social media. All I have pointing out is that social media only works for a particular part of the market. You are agreeing with me.

Social media has it's place but as a stand alone service the value is not great and it maybe of no use for the businesses core customer. It is an axillary service and it is why I don't see it as a good business idea. It will have to show a revenue.

The idea on this service is to show people how to create and maintain their social media. As a stand alone service it doesn't have much merit and best to go through the existing ways to offer this service than set-up a business to do it. People will maintain your presence for a fee which is probably a better business model along with on-line ads and web design.

Ray Palmer

Peterdalkey wrote: »

I never knew how Jacobs got the figs into Fig Rolls. I just like them. I do not know how my iPhone ir iPad works, but I don’t need to, they are but tools of doing business and IT is just a functional tool as well. Branding, marketing, service, manufacturing etc etc are the real ways of adding value. IT is but a support function, albeit an important one, in a business, it seems to that many IT people overestimate their own importance in the overall enterprise. No wonder they are getting subbed out more and more.
You seem to have taken my comments above as a personal affront, so perhaps if the hat fits, wear it!

You are clueless on what IT is given what you said. I don't take your views personally I just know you don't know what you are talking about from what you said. It is support service in many companies. As design it is primarily done by IT people it illustrates you have no idea. Many companies are just about technology and services provided by IT. It is a multi-disciplined industry and you seem to think we are all coding monkeys.

Everywhere I have worked the head people primarily come form IT back grounds. I have worked on contract in a lot of companies and worked on many different product types. Business improvements generally come from IT departments.

Your iPhone was designed by IT people but apparently they know nothing about design.:rolleyes:

After looking at your website I don't see what you know about design. It isn't even technically right and I spotted 4 major errors.

Graham

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Your iPhone was designed by IT people but apparently they know nothing about design.:rolleyes:

Wasn't the iPhone was designed by industrial designers and electronics engineers?

Ray Palmer

Graham wrote: »

Wasn't the iPhone was designed by industrial designers and electronics engineers?

The things that made it work such as the interface and OS system were all IT. It is pretty useless thing without them. IT includes designers and engineers also, I worked on chip design for example but still consider myself IT. It is pretty ridiculous to suggest IT people know nothing about design especially considering the person who said it has a terribly designed website.

Lyn256

Give it a rest Ray . . .

Is this thread not about a motivated and entrepreneurial 19 year old who recognises that in order to make some summer cash, they need to get up off their bum and go out and offer their service to the world

When did it become about you extolling the virtues of IT over every other business function . . . .

Now any chance we can bring this back to advising the OP on what might help them succeed!!!!!!!!!!!!

Graham

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The things that made it work such as the interface and OS system were all IT.

The interface was for the most part put together by the UI/UX team, without them the OS/interface would almost certainly not be what it is today.

IT may include designers and engineers but at the same time being a designer/engineer does not make you an IT expert.

Going back to the OP's original question;

I would definitely give it a try OP, you haven't got much to loose by having a go.

smash

There are a lot of companies who offer Social Media Marketing services when creating websites. They have digital marketing departments to do it.

I don't know how any college can turn it into a full time course, the DMI have been doing it for ages and it's only 36 hours in total. Or you can do a 1 day course.

Ray Palmer

Ok back on topic.

As a stand alone service it is a hard sell.

It has a limited market and must therefore be targeted correctly to what business must be targeted. Even successfully selling it to somebody may be bad if they get nothing out of it and then start bad mouthing you. This will deprive you of who it would be successful for.

Realistically price the service as you are effectively selling training. If you want to do it as a service it is a much better idea IMHO. So many updates a month etc...

There are sites where you can offer your services I suggest using those.

Do your taxes, I would suggest sole trader and not a business and all the complication of that.

Insure you use secure passwords and make sure they are changed when you hand over.

Get what they expect in writing and get it signed by both parties.

Either do web design or partner with somebody else because it is an easier thing to sell to a business. You could easily learn how to do this yourself.

I would offer a heavily discounted or free service to the first client to show a case study of success to other potential clients.

Dress professionally if you are calling to customers. Shirt and tie!

I would have my own website too with your sales burb on it

smash

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Either do web design or partner with somebody else because it is an easier thing to sell to a business. You could easily learn how to do this yourself.

Some of the worst advice I've ever read on this forum to be honest.