EU seeks to "harmonise" gun ownershop across the EU!

Stinicker

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056933761

The sooner Ireland gets out of this EU monstrosity the better!

returnNull

whats the conspiracy?

Anynama141

I'm all for gun control. One less means of being murdered, thanks very much.

Torakx

Should ban cars too, they kill way more people.
Cars kill people! They are killers ^^

returnNull

Torakx wrote: »

Should ban cars too, they kill way more people.
Cars kill people! They are killers ^^

and like guns,cars are used in robberies too:pac:

derry

Anynama141 wrote: »

I'm all for gun control. One less means of being murdered, thanks very much.

not correct logic the majority of cites in the world and the USA which allow gun ownership have violent crimes like murder house breaking rape reduced dramatically as criminals don't like to get into gun fights as often they lose .Criminals prefer unarmed populations to steal and murder and rape as criminals can always get guns

The cites in the world with the most gun controls have the often got the highest violent crime and murder rate .Chicago and New York where gun control is highest the murder rates from guns is highest

Ireland has now about one violent murder a week and the guns used are illegally owned and not licenced guns so the criminals guess what don't respect gun laws anyway so gun laws don't stop criminals who get guns anyway and if they cant get them they can make them youtube has many video on how to hand make your own AK 47 machine gun with full auto takes few days to make it in average well equipped house garage

Now on the internet exist plans how to make AR 15 machine gun and hand gun using your 3 d printer

So all you need is the ammo and the planet is swimming in ammo and there is plans on the net to make lethal bullets from 3 d printer and few easy to get chemicals


So the idea laws can stop guns is up there with sticking your head in the sand the bad guys wont rob or kill you because your unarmed is up there with brain washed .The cops will come to find your cold bodies as it takes them 20 minutes average to arrive to crimes and they get 20 minutes to leave crime scene and often the evidence isn't there to prove who did it

The biggest drop in crime in county MAYO happened there was 98% drop in crime when one farmer decided to use his shot gun to kill a well known violent thief who would often do his crimes in day time .He practically liked to torture his victims for many hours many of the victims who were elderly.

Basically Ireland is still common law your still allowed to defend yourself in your house with lethal force if necessary. If you happen to have a old shot gun in your house and it was there from the old days and you used it there is no crime broken as the law to licence the gun is to bring it outside your property .Many farmers know that and still have gun under the bed old grandpas gun from the old days and the Gardra probably know that but don't pay attention to it as they are not robbing banks with these tools they are protecting themselves against well known local thugs the Garda cant arrest due to lack of evidence



So you can be a Irish person with no gun living in terror in the city or country side while the Irish thugs with guns can get their way or you or you could be swiss and where every house has got a machine gun given to them by the government and gun crimes like bank robberies and violent crimes are low as the criminals often get dead from swiss bullets from swiss citizen's who generally all own guns

The brainwashed in Ireland and the UK think the government can protect them and the Americans and the Swiss know a magnum 45 does it better

Government prefer to have unarmed societies to rob them as governments on average turn into the biggest criminals

Stalin and Hitler disarmed their populations before exterminating them and stealing their wealth

A armed population can fight back so that's why the criminally run hijacked by communists EU wants the EU population disarmed and you can say in the death camps in the Curragh wish I had have bought a gun to fight back with

Derry

BloodBath

I've never seen so much disinformation in 1 post.

not correct logic the majority of cites in the world and the USA which allow gun ownership have violent crimes like murder house breaking rape reduced dramatically as criminals don't like to get into gun fights as often they lose .Criminals prefer unarmed populations to steal and murder and rape as criminals can always get guns

Gun related crimes in all of these states or countries is far higher than countries with tight gun laws.

The cites in the world with the most gun controls have the often got the highest violent crime and murder rate .Chicago and New York where gun control is highest the murder rates from guns is highest

You can't compare American cities in a country where there is a gun for every man woman and child. The ease and availability of cheap guns makes state specific gun laws pointless.

Ireland has now about one violent murder a week and the guns used are illegally owned and not licenced guns so the criminals guess what don't respect gun laws anyway so gun laws don't stop criminals who get guns anyway and if they cant get them they can make them youtube has many video on how to hand make your own AK 47 machine gun with full auto takes few days to make it in average well equipped house garage

If guns were legal in Ireland I can guarantee you this figure would be a lot higher. I won't even comment on making your own ak47....

Now on the internet exist plans how to make AR 15 machine gun and hand gun using your 3 d printer

There are lots of things on the internet. Good luck firing that gun.

So all you need is the ammo and the planet is swimming in ammo and there is plans on the net to make lethal bullets from 3 d printer and few easy to get chemicals

Again complete hogwash. Even if it were true these are advanced metal fab 3d printers that cost hundreds of thousands of euro. This isn't some easily available thing.

So the idea laws can stop guns is up there with sticking your head in the sand the bad guys wont rob or kill you because your unarmed is up there with brain washed .The cops will come to find your cold bodies as it takes them 20 minutes average to arrive to crimes and they get 20 minutes to leave crime scene and often the evidence isn't there to prove who did it

I'd sooner be in our situation than the US where every mentally disturbed person or people with anger management issues have easy access to guns. There is a tiny amount of gun related crime in Ireland compared to the US. The vast majority of it is gang related used in gang related killings. Not targeting innocent members of the public.

The biggest drop in crime in county MAYO happened there was 98% drop in crime when one farmer decided to use his shot gun to kill a well known violent thief who would often do his crimes in day time .He practically liked to torture his victims for many hours many of the victims who were elderly.

Again complete hogwash. Where are you pulling this 98% figure from? A mentally unstable farmer kills a fleeing thief by shooting him in the back. Yes that's a great example for an argument to legalise guns.

Basically Ireland is still common law your still allowed to defend yourself in your house with lethal force if necessary. If you happen to have a old shot gun in your house and it was there from the old days and you used it there is no crime broken as the law to licence the gun is to bring it outside your property .Many farmers know that and still have gun under the bed old grandpas gun from the old days and the Gardra probably know that but don't pay attention to it as they are not robbing banks with these tools they are protecting themselves against well known local thugs the Garda cant arrest due to lack of evidence

More fantasy. Farmers can get licenses for guns. Small caliber rifles and shotguns mainly.

So you can be a Irish person with no gun living in terror in the city or country side while the Irish thugs with guns can get their way or you or you could be swiss and where every house has got a machine gun given to them by the government and gun crimes like bank robberies and violent crimes are low as the criminals often get dead from swiss bullets from swiss citizen's who generally all own guns

Live in terror? Haha give me a break. So you would prefer the situation in the US where anybody and everybody has a gun. You don't know what unstable lunatic or criminal/junkie has a piece and the police will pull guns on you at the drop of a hat.

The brainwashed in Ireland and the UK think the government can protect them and the Americans and the Swiss know a magnum 45 does it better

Yeah we're the brainwashed ones.

Government prefer to have unarmed societies to rob them as governments on average turn into the biggest criminals

The US is a shining example of a non corrupt political system thanks to it's it's citizens having guns right?

Stalin and Hitler disarmed their populations before exterminating them and stealing their wealth

Hitler didn't exterminate his own (non Jewish) citizens. Regardless do you think small arms can stand up to an army? Do you think an army today would kill it's own citizens in a western country?

A armed population can fight back so that's why the criminally run hijacked by communists EU wants the EU population disarmed and you can say in the death camps in the Curragh wish I had have bought a gun to fight back with

We already have tight gun laws. This EU directive makes no difference to us.

Witcher

BloodBath wrote: »

If guns were legal in Ireland I can guarantee you this figure would be a lot higher.

If guns were legal?

Are you aware they already are?

BloodBath

If you read my post you would know I do. There are strict regulations in place on gun ownership and the type of guns that can be owned.

Witcher

BloodBath wrote: »

If you read my post you would know I do. There are strict regulations in place on gun ownership and the type of guns that can be owned.

Perhaps you should have articulated your point better. Something being controlled does not make it illegal. You need a licence to drive a car just as you need one to own a firearm...doesn't mean cars are illegal.

BloodBath

Ok is this what you are resorting to?

Instead of countering any of my points you focus on a grammatical error?

Well done sir.

Witcher

BloodBath wrote: »

Ok is this what you are resorting to?

Instead of countering any of my points you focus on a grammatical error?

Well done sir.

It's not a grammatical error. Your logic was flawed not your grammar.

BloodBath

I made it pretty clear in my post if you had read all of it.

Sorry I didn't proof read it for you.

Now do you actually have anything interesting to add to this argument?

If not why are you posting here?

Witcher

BloodBath wrote: »

I made it pretty clear in my post if you had read all of it.

Sorry I didn't proof read it for you.

Now do you actually have anything interesting to add to this argument?

If not why are you posting here?

I just like to correct ignorance.

keelanj69

Blay wrote: »

It's not a grammatical error. Your logic was flawed not your grammar.

Now that that is cleared up please reply to his post.

BloodBath

I'll take that as a no then.

Ok buddy cya later

Witcher

keelanj69 wrote: »

Now that that is cleared up please reply to his post.

His post wasn't addressing me and I've no interest in debating the rights and wrongs of gun ownership in the US which most of his post on focused on. I was correcting his point in relation to Irish firearms legislation.As an Irish gun owner, I like info in relation to Irish firearms laws to be correct.

BloodBath

So I wasn't addressing you and you have no interest in debating any of the issues.

Again I ask why are you posting here?

You are aware you have already made several forum rule infractions?

Witcher

BloodBath wrote: »

So I wasn't addressing you and you have no interest in debating any of the issues.

Again I ask why are you posting here?

You are aware you have already made several forum rule infractions?

I was correcting a falsehood in your post. Apparently you can't handle that.

Perhaps you would list those infractions?

BloodBath

I did handle it.

My choice of words was poor but from the entire post I think it's pretty clear I am aware that there legal means of obtaining guns in Ireland.

This makes your post totally unnecessary.

I will leave the moderation to the moderators.

Penn

Blay wrote: »

I was correcting a falsehood in your post. Apparently you can't handle that.

Perhaps you would list those infractions?

Allow me:

Blay wrote: »

I just like to correct ignorance.

This, as well as a few other lines from previous posts, is needlessly antagonistic and borderline abusive. There are better ways to make your points than resort to this.

I advise everyone to stay on topic and discuss the topic civilly or infractions/bans will be handed out.

Brown Bomber

Torakx wrote: »

Should ban cars too, they kill way more people.
Cars kill people! They are killers ^^

& don't forget pressure cookers. WMD In the nanny-state we trust.

Brown Bomber

BloodBath wrote: »

I

Hitler didn't exterminate his own (non Jewish) citizens.

He did as a matter of fact but now is not the best time for a history lesson. Hitler only disarmed Jews. He then went on to try and eliminate them.

Can you see any possible connection between the two?

BloodBath

Can I ask what Nationality you are.

You actually buy that NRA crap that guns don't kill people, people do?

I will reiterate the question. Do you think a modern western army would kill it's own citizens.

Jews in Germany at the time were considered sub human.

Can you explain your sig as well? Are you a supporter of zionism and/or Anders Breivik?

Sonics2k

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Can you see any possible connection between the two?

Absolutely none at all.

hju6

I don't know how to shoot a gun, but if I own three or four I might get lucky,

charlemont

the death camps in the Curragh

Maybe you should tell the media about these camps..

Brown Bomber

BloodBath wrote: »

Can I ask what Nationality you are.

Swedish

[QUOTE=BloodBath;84570337You actually buy that NRA crap that guns don't kill people, people do? [/QUOTE]
These kind of loaded questions are unhelpful.

I can see both sides of the argument on this. Personally I'd prefer it if there were no guns in existence at all but I can understand people wanting to own them for sport/hobby, to protect their property, person, family from threats - including the state.

BloodBath wrote: »

I will reiterate the question. Do you think a modern western army would kill it's own citizens.

States do kill their own citizens. There is little point in making any distinction between an "army" and a paramilitarised police force. See this map for example: http://www.cato.org/raidmap

Applying "modern" and "western" doesn't change very much at all. Don't forget Germany under Hitler was considered at the apex of all these buzz words: Christian, Western, democratic, industrialised etc.

BloodBath wrote: »

Jews in Germany at the time were considered sub human.

Right, and history has shown that to be considered sub-human and disarmed is more dangerous to you and your family than to be considered sub-human and armed.

BloodBath wrote: »

Can you explain your sig as well? Are you a supporter of zionism and/or Anders Breivik?

No (off-topic), no and no.

Brown Bomber

Sonics2k wrote: »

Absolutely none at all.

okay, go on...

Why did the NAZI's disarm the Jews before Kristallnacht?

Wouldn't the Warsaw Ghetto uprising have had more more of a chance if the Jews hadn't been disarmed?

If you and your family were about to be forcibly removed from your home by your government to an extermination camp would you prefer to be armed or not?

Brown Bomber

Stinicker wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056933761

The sooner Ireland gets out of this EU monstrosity the better!

Y'know what gets me? Statistically half of the people from that thread would have voted in favour of the Lisbon Treaty under the illusion it would be all milk and honey and wouldn't interfere with their personal freedoms.

Only when it effects them on a personal level they are up in arms (no pun intended )

I live in the Swedish countryside where wolves roam the woods. Occassionaly attacking domestic animals and even people. Some suits in Brussels have decided that the local people, the one's who live under this threat, can't defend themselves or their property against this threat by force. It's ridiculous.

Sonics2k

Brown Bomber wrote: »

okay, go on...

Why did the NAZI's disarm the Jews before Kristallnacht?

Wouldn't the Warsaw Ghetto uprising have had more more of a chance if the Jews hadn't been disarmed?

If you and your family were about to be forcibly removed from your home by your government to an extermination camp would you prefer to be armed or not?

This directive isn't about removing firearms, it's about better control of their availability to the public.

I had a gun licence here for several years, after I did a few years in the army, so I'm not one to support the out-right ban of them all.

Anyway, your comparison is laughable and a bit sad BB. This has nothing to do with disarming the public and setting up camps.

Honestly :rolleyes:

Anynama141

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Y'know what gets me? Statistically half of the people from that thread would have voted in favour of the Lisbon Treaty under the illusion it would be all milk and honey and wouldn't interfere with their personal freedoms.

Only when it effects them on a personal level they are up in arms (no pun intended )

I live in the Swedish countryside where wolves roam the woods. Occassionaly attacking domestic animals and even people. Some suits in Brussels have decided that the local people, the one's who live under this threat, can't defend themselves or their property against this threat by force. It's ridiculous.

Can you please point to this 'decision' made by these 'suits'?

Thanks.

Brown Bomber

http://www.nyhetspressen.se/1176325.html

Brown Bomber

Sonics2k wrote: »

This directive isn't about removing firearms, it's about better control of their availability to the public.

I had a gun licence here for several years, after I did a few years in the army, so I'm not one to support the out-right ban of them all.

Anyway, your comparison is laughable and a bit sad BB. This has nothing to do with disarming the public and setting up camps.

Honestly :rolleyes:

I take it we won't be seeing an anwer to any of my questions then?

Anynama141

Brown Bomber wrote: »

http://www.nyhetspressen.se/1176325.html

Is this link supposed to be an answer to my question?

It seems a tad disrespectful and rude to post stuff in Swedish. Additionally, what you posted has nothing to do with a 'decision' made by 'suits'. Or even with bears.

Sonics2k

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I take it we won't be seeing an anwer to any of my questions then?

I see no point in answering questions on Nazi history when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You literally jumped straight the BUT THE NAZIS DISARMED PEOPLE SO IT'S BAD FOR THE EU TO DO IT shtick which is just sad.

Penn

Keep it civil, folks. And I agree, I fail to see a sufficient enough link with the Nazi stuff so further discussion of it will be considered to be off-topic unless such a link can be established.

BloodBath

I can see both sides of the argument on this. Personally I'd prefer it if there were no guns in existence at all but I can understand people wanting to own them for sport/hobby, to protect their property, person, family from threats - including the state.

It's a double edged sword though. This leads to widespread circulation and easy access of guns. I don't think it's a basic human right for people to have high powered weapons. Yes anyone can use something as a weapon, a car for example, but a car is not designed to kill people. A gun is specifically designed to kill/maim people or animals. I'm not saying ban them outright. There should be, as is there is now in this country, tight regulations on who can have what guns legally on short permits that need regular renewals and evaluations.

Brown Bomber

BloodBath wrote: »

It's a double edged sword though. This leads to widespread circulation and easy access of guns. I don't think it's a basic human right for people to have high powered weapons. Yes anyone can use something as a weapon, a car for example, but a car is not designed to kill people. A gun is specifically designed to kill/maim people or animals. I'm not saying ban them outright. There should be, as is there is now in this country, tight regulations on who can have what guns legally on short permits that need regular renewals and evaluations.

I agree up to a point. Yet I don't see how your proposal is a solution. No gun control measures would have saved any of the victims in the recent high profile massacres. Lanza had his mother's legally held guns, the Aurora guy had obtained his guns legally, Breivik's rifle was legal and so on.

On the other hand if some of the innocent, law-abiding bystanders/victims were armed it is highly probable that the attackers wouldn't have been able to take so many lives.

Case in point Forth Hood, the scene of a 2009 massacre. It occurred on a military base yet it was a gun-free zone. So the Al Qaeda inspired gunman was able to kill and maim to his hearts content.

There can be no question here that gun control cost lives.

It is crazy to believe that murderers, robbers etc would obey gun any control laws.

Anynama141

BB, are we to take it that you admit that no 'decision' has been made at all?

It's a pity that we've descended to the Daily Mail level of discussion where you can accuse the EU of just about any evil or of being the source of all our problems, with no reference to actual real-world events.

BloodBath

Flip the coin and look at the amount of gun related murders and crimes in the US. They cause far more more problems than they solve. Lanza's mother should never legally have been able to own a semi automatic rifle. Remember gun laws are a lot tighter here than the US. They are a lost cause. I don't expect them to change. It's engrained in their culture. I don't want it ingrained in ours.

It's not about believing whether criminals will obey gun laws. It's restricting access to them reducing gun crime overall. There is no way in hell you can argue that relaxed gun laws lead to less crime.

Brown Bomber

BloodBath wrote: »

There is no way in hell you can argue that relaxed gun laws lead to less crime.

I thought I just did with the Fort Hood example.

Do you disagree that the federally enforced gun laws in this instance were soliders were unarmed in a gun free zone actually cost lives?

Brown Bomber

Anynama141 wrote: »

BB, are we to take it that you admit that no 'decision' has been made at all?

It's a pity that we've descended to the Daily Mail level of discussion where you can accuse the EU of just about any evil or of being the source of all our problems, with no reference to actual real-world events.

I'm not aware of any english language reportage. The European Commission were throwing their toys out of their pram because the local governments were permitting killing wolves against the orders of the EU. It was a big deal here where wolves are a real threat to peoples lives and livelihoods - and not to the bureacrats in Brussels issuing decrees.

Anynama141

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I thought I just did with the Fort Hood example.

Do you disagree that the federally enforced gun laws in this instance were soliders were unarmed in a gun free zone actually cost lives?

And if someone comes up with a singular example of where having a naked flame in a petrol station cost a life, should all restrictions on naked flames in petrol stations and other flammable environments be scrapped?

Or an example of where not having a hole in a boat cost a life? Or a million other things?

This chart shows that the USA is in the top 15 countries in the world for firearm-related murder, up there with a rake of third-world countries. I'm very happy we don't see EU countries in the same dire state.

Witcher

BloodBath wrote: »

Flip the coin and look at the amount of gun related murders and crimes in the US. They cause far more more problems than they solve. Lanza's mother should never legally have been able to own a semi automatic rifle

You can own semi automatic rifles in Ireland too including the exact rifle Lanza used. Gun control measures only look at the person that owns the firearm not those around them. I've two firearms in this room right now but there's nothing to stop a member of my family killing me and taking them just as Lanza did.

Anynama141

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I'm not aware of any english language reportage. The European Commission were throwing their toys out of their pram because the local governments were permitting killing wolves against the orders of the EU. It was a big deal here where wolves are a real threat to peoples lives and livelihoods - and not to the bureacrats in Brussels issuing decrees.

So the articles you linked to were about environmental protection?

You realise that people in Ireland are poisoning sea-eagles and other large birds of prey because they perceive them as a threat to their livelihoods? Are they justified too?

And what has it got to do with your claim that a decision has been made to risk Swedish lives to bears by taking their guns?

Brown Bomber

Blay wrote: »

.I've two firearms in this room right now but there's nothing to stop a member of my family killing me and taking them just as Lanza did.

Except the guns themselves and your ability to use them which would make anyone think twice I'd imagine.

Anynama141

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Except the guns themselves and your ability to use them which would make anyone think twice I'd imagine.

So all he needs to do is keep an armed gun in his immediate possession at all time, and he is safe. The rest of us, not so much unless we all get guns too. And even then, we will only be 'safe' if we shoot first.

What could go wrong?

returnNull

Anynama141 wrote: »

What could go wrong?

lots of dogs mistaken as wolves in sweden

Anynama141

returnNull wrote: »

lots of dogs mistaken as wolves in sweden

I'm also wondering how many people have been killed by bears in Sweden in the last 100 years. Care to tell us, BB?

Brown Bomber

Anynama141 wrote: »

I'm also wondering how many people have been killed by bears in Sweden in the last 100 years. Care to tell us, BB?

I have no idea why you are talking about bears.