Track-lifting in Dundalk

Hungerford

The remaining stub of the Barrack Street branch in Dundalk has been lifted in recent days by Irish Rail. I wonder if they will be targeting any other stray pieces of track in the near future?

Judgement Day

Limerick/Ballybrophy and Limerick Junction/Waterford? :rolleyes:

Losty Dublin

Hungerford wrote: »

The remaining stub of the Barrack Street branch in Dundalk has been lifted in recent days by Irish Rail. I wonder if they will be targeting any other stray pieces of track in the near future?

That stub has been disused since the mid 1990's. High time it was taken out.

belcampprisoner

http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r051.html

dowlingm

Is there any announced plan to reuse that section as a walk/cycleway or other public use?

Losty Dublin

dowlingm wrote: »

Is there any announced plan to reuse that section as a walk/cycleway or other public use?

It is unlikely. All that was lifted at the weekend was a long disused siding and the access points on the "Up" line. It led to the old Barrack Street yard and the Greenore line; it and most of the line towards it has been build over for years now. A path on what remains of the trackbed would only lead from an industrial estate to the former GNR works; it is used as a bus depot.

davidlacey

why do IE take so long to pull up areas which have no chance of being used again but disconnect/pullup areas that could be of use?

Hungerford

davidlacey wrote: »

why do IE take so long to pull up areas which have no chance of being used again but disconnect/pullup areas that could be of use?

The scorched earth policy only applied to freight lines and closed passenger routes so as to discourage troublesome customers from seeking services.

Sligo Quay

dowlingm wrote: »

Is there any announced plan to reuse that section as a walk/cycleway or other public use?

I think we are losing the run of ourselves with walk ways, walk ways by all means in the scenic west or a place of natural beauty, but Dundalk :eek:, next we'll be calling for a walk way on that coastal line in Dublin Docks.

dowlingm

Not a tourist route but something to improve the permeability of the urban area for cycling and pedestrians. Alternatively, a busway to give additional access from the bus garage. Just not a public mixed traffic road.

Losty Dublin

Hungerford wrote: »

The scorched earth policy only applied to freight lines and closed passenger routes so as to discourage troublesome customers from seeking services.

Because lifting a 1/4 mile of a siding that led to a freight yard that has been closed since 1994 is discouraging customers :rolleyes:

Sligo Quay

dowlingm wrote: »

Not a tourist route but something to improve the permeability of the urban area for cycling and pedestrians. Alternatively, a busway to give additional access from the bus garage.

A very good point, yes an urban area for cycling and pedestrians, infact it would have been a good idea for the old Broadstone line, but thats now for LUAS.

ted1

Look at what happened the old harcourt line in Dublin, it cost them a good bit to buy back the land for the green line. I don't think they ever envisaged the luas when they tore up the old line, I guess they didn 't learn there lesson

Captain Chaos

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Because lifting a 1/4 mile of a siding that led to a freight yard that has been closed since 1994 is discouraging customers :rolleyes:

You missed the point completely. Read the quoted post in the post you quoted.

That's why it's been left in place for long and not touched because it was of no use to anybody. If it had some value to someone outside IE it would have been lifted no later than 1995.

Look how quickly North Esk was disconnected from the network. It was not left in place for 20 years. Same for the former North Wall yard and gantry cranes, no it was better to stuff an unused and unwanted commuter station in there.

Losty Dublin

Captain Chaos wrote: »

You missed the point completely. Read the quoted post in the post you quoted.

That's why it's been left in place for long and not touched because it was of no use to anybody. If it had some value to someone outside IE it would have been lifted no later than 1995.

Look how quickly North Esk was disconnected from the network. It was not left in place for 20 years. Same for the former North Wall yard and gantry cranes, no it was better to stuff an unused and unwanted commuter station in there.

I read it, several times in fact, but aside from his anti CIE overtones it is irrelevant and effectively pointless. North Esk had its points removed during a relay and resignaling project on the Cobh line so it wasn't needing any extra costs.

A few weeks ago, I said to a friend of mine last week (Who posts on here, he knows who he is ) that the innoffensive work at Barrack Street would rare up all manner of rabble rousing and tangents aplenty from some of the nay sayers on here; As can be seen with most of the posts on here, I was right They lifted long disused track and points; big deal.

Hungerford

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I read it, several times in fact, but aside from his anti CIE overtones it is irrelevant and effectively pointless.

It wasn't irrelevant - the fact is that Irish Rail appears to have prioritised the disconnection and removal of potentially valuable infrastructure from the network over the understandable removal of curious historical artefacts such as the stub in Dundalk.

shamwari

Here's some pics on the excellent Eiretrains website.

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20D/Dundalk%20South%20Junction/IrishRailwayStations.html

And without wishing to inflame opinions, I have to say that I feel this work in Dundalk is much ado about nothing. The juicy bits were removed 20 years ago. There's no other freight out of Dundalk, the last being the liners (down to 1 short train a week on a Friday) which ceased a few years ago.

The question that needs to be asked is this: What present or future expansion or operational enhancements are compromised by the recent work.

Answer: none.

davidlacey

shamwari wrote: »

Here's some pics on the excellent Eiretrains website.

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20D/Dundalk%20South%20Junction/IrishRailwayStations.html

And without wishing to inflame opinions, I have to say that I feel this work in Dundalk is much ado about nothing. The juicy bits were removed 20 years ago. There's no other freight out of Dundalk, the last being the liners (down to 1 short train a week on a Friday) which ceased a few years ago.

The question that needs to be asked is this: What present or future expansion or operational enhancements are compromised by the recent work.

Answer: none.

its not really about the lifting in dundalk its the fact it takes years for them to do that and other areas such as north esk being disconnected as soon as they could!

shamwari

davidlacey wrote: »

its not really about the lifting in dundalk its the fact it takes years for them to do that and other areas such as north esk being disconnected as soon as they could!

My comments are in the context of Dundalk and that's the topic of this thread, and not North Esk! I'm afraid I don't know a whole lot about North Esk but it was mentioned here earlier that its disconnection was during work associated with Cobh (or Midleton??)

In any event, the elephant in the room is why freight disappeared at all....and it was this which legitimised the dismantling of all of the aforementioned freight facilities.

davidlacey

shamwari wrote: »

My comments are in the context of Dundalk and that's the topic of this thread, and not North Esk! I'm afraid I don't know a whole lot about North Esk but it was mentioned here earlier that its disconnection was during work associated with Cobh (or Midleton??)

In any event, the elephant in the room is why freight disappeared at all....and it was this which legitimised the dismantling of all of the aforementioned freight facilities.

why get rid of the facilities so fast though? as hungerford said earlier it is to make sure where there is a demand IE make sure they get rid of that so that that demand disapears...

shamwari

davidlacey wrote: »

why get rid of the facilities so fast though? as hungerford said earlier it is to make sure where there is a demand IE make sure they get rid of that so that that demand disappears...

But again, this topic is about Dundalk, and I don't see subterfuge or anything sinister in the work that has just taken place there.

North Esk is North Esk and is a different set of circumstances, but has no connection with Dundalk. If we want to talk about North Esk, why not start a separate thread about it??

davidlacey

never said anything sinister just strange how they suddenly decide to do it now

shamwari

davidlacey wrote: »

never said anything sinister just strange how they suddenly decide to do it now

Have you asked anyone in IE why it was done? Even someone working in the station?

davidlacey

shamwari wrote: »

Have you asked anyone in IE why it was done? Even someone working in the station?

who is there to ask? anyone in a station would either a)have no idea b)no interest

shamwari

davidlacey wrote: »

who is there to ask? anyone in a station would either a)have no idea b)no interest

Put it this way, if I were to offer you €1000 to try find out, what would you do?

Victor

Doing things costs money. Presumably disconnecting North Esk was cheaper than installing the required new signalling.

Presumably keeping the Barrack Street connection was cheaper than removing it, until now, although having points in place on an operational does cost a modest amount of money in maintenance and supervision.

This pic from about 2005 shown some wagons being stored there: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,704191,806232,7,0 while the container depot appears busier: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,703948,806432,7,0

Losty Dublin

Victor wrote: »

Presumably keep the Barrack Street connection was cheaper than removing it, until now.

That's pretty much it, Victor. PW teams could have been sent to lift 30 metres of a non used trailing point that causes no safety or speed benefit or to relay, tamp and pack 600 metres of track at a time when track renewal was unrgently needed.

shamwari

This “rationalisation” work is happening at several locations around the network recently and not just Dundalk. Crossovers and sidings that are not in use are being removed. For example, Church Rd sidings in North Wall were lifted last month. The Limerick Cement Factory branch was disconnected 2 weeks ago just before the gang moved to Barrack St Dundalk. Limerick station is going to be re-signalled and the Limerick Cement Branch was part of this downsizing. I’ve also discovered that when they where relaying the Cobh line last year they took the opportunity to remove the old crossover into the yard and replaced it with new straight track.

It’s like a ''tidy up operation'': there’s no other major work going on elsewhere at the mo, so instead of the PWD staff sitting on their backsides, they are sent out to do this work and removing old bits ‘n’ pieces that are unlikely to be used again in the near future.

Behind this work, I’d imagine there is an accountancy exercise of sorts to what’s been removed and ultimately everything done will translate into a cost saving of one sort or another. This is some respects is no bad as everything has to accounted for and cost saving is absolutely paramount in the current climate.

To sum up, there is nothing sinister about what has happened in Dundalk. All they did was lift a road going to nowhere.

davidlacey

shamwari wrote: »

This “rationalisation” work is happening at several locations around the network recently and not just Dundalk. Crossovers and sidings that are not in use are being removed. For example, Church Rd sidings in North Wall were lifted last month. The Limerick Cement Factory branch was disconnected 2 weeks ago just before the gang moved to Barrack St Dundalk. Limerick station is going to be re-signalled and the Limerick Cement Branch was part of this downsizing. I’ve also discovered that when they where relaying the Cobh line last year they took the opportunity to remove the old crossover into the yard and replaced it with new straight track.

It’s like a ''tidy up operation'': there’s no other major work going on elsewhere at the mo, so instead of the PWD staff sitting on their backsides, they are sent out to do this work and removing old bits ‘n’ pieces that are unlikely to be used again in the near future.

Behind this work, I’d imagine there is an accountancy exercise of sorts to what’s been removed and ultimately everything done will translate into a cost saving of one sort or another. This is some respects is no bad as everything has to accounted for and cost saving is absolutely paramount in the current climate.

To sum up, there is nothing sinister about what has happened in Dundalk. All they did was lift a road going to nowhere.

That makes sense when its all put into context. just sounded strange that they decided to do barrack st by itself....until you uncovered the rest

Eiretrains

To add to the list mentioned by shamwari, points and sidings at Rathpeacon north of Cork are being removed. Also in the south we have seen the points and headshunts at Kilmastulla and Silvermines on the Nenagh branch also removed. Soon the network will appear neat, tidy and clinical, without any rusty sidings or unused pieces of track!

davidlacey

Eiretrains wrote: »

To add to the list mentioned by shamwari, points and sidings at Rathpeacon north of Cork are being removed. Also in the south we have seen the points and headshunts at Kilmastulla and Silvermines on the Nenagh branch also removed. Soon the network will appear neat, tidy and clinical, without any rusty sidings or unused pieces of track!

neat and nothing of interest for enthuasists...

Sligo Quay

davidlacey wrote: »

neat and nothing of interest for enthuasists...

Well the railway is not run for the benefit of enthuasists, never realized the yard at the end of the branch was so extensive with plenty of sidings nice pictures eiretrains http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20B/Barrack%20Street/Irish%20Railway%20Stations.html the port at Greenore for shipping used Barrack st railhead a lot in the old days, enthuasists must have been busy, I passed there today but couldnd find where it was, the roads there now are confusing, hard to believe a railhead ever existed there.

ardmacha

Compare the 1995 aerial photo
with the 2005 aerial photo

dowlingm

Centenary Road, Dundalk
The disappearance of the old railway bridge at St. Alphonsus Road, long a thorn in the side of the people who lived there, has opened up the area to many possibilities, some of which are now taking shape. The cost of the scheme was 1.3 million with proposals now in hand to extend it along the line of the old railway, to Hill Street Bridge at a further estimated cost of 4 million, the statutory procedures having recently commenced.

http://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Publications/Annual-Reports/Dundalk-Town-Council1.pdf

Bit dated now so presumably the funds never materialised. Deletion of the Hill Street Bridge would probably be a good thing with longer sightlines and less overlooking of adjacent properties.

Judgement Day

davidlacey wrote: »

neat and nothing of interest for enthuasists...

neat and no traffic!

davidlacey

Sligo Quay wrote: »

Well the railway is not run for the benefit of enthuasists, never realized the yard at the end of the branch was so extensive with plenty of sidings nice pictures eiretrains http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20B/Barrack%20Street/Irish%20Railway%20Stations.html the port at Greenore for shipping used Barrack st railhead a lot in the old days, enthuasists must have been busy, I passed there today but couldnd find where it was, the roads there now are confusing, hard to believe a railhead ever existed there.

What was the death nail for barrack street? had that anything to do with bell liners or was it just following the trend of rail freight in general in ireland being more favoured on roads?

Judgement Day

davidlacey wrote: »

What was the death nail for barrack street? had that anything to do with bell liners or was it just following the trend of rail freight in general in ireland being more favoured on roads?

IE built a new depot in the 1990s in the old North Western yard, with an architectural award winning office building, and then gave up the freight business.

davidlacey

Judgement Day wrote: »

IE built a new depot in the old North Western yard with an architectural award winning office building and then gave up the freight business.

i never realised that yard near the point was so shortlived, that gantry crane was another waste of eu money

Losty Dublin

davidlacey wrote: »

What was the death nail for barrack street? had that anything to do with bell liners or was it just following the trend of rail freight in general in ireland being more favoured on roads?

Barrack Street dealt mainly with sundries and loose freight as well as traffic in and out of Dundalk Port. When it died and the port lost a lot of it's traffic to Warrenpoint and Greenore, the trade in and out pf the port died off. It also carried leather and linen from works beside it and a coal traffic. The breweries in the town gave a lot of trade to the railways; they were served from the main station itself while cigarette trains from Carrolls also gave considerable traffic. When the town council in Dundalk wanted to build a relief road in the 90's, a new freight yard was developed to free up the route for the road.

In relation to container traffic, what killed most of it off was NIR's refusal to handle traffic at Adelaide and Derry; this also applied to keg trains.

The True Puka

What kind of condition was the section of track in. It's a pity it was lifted as the stub seems to have plenty of space around it.
It would have made a fine base of operations for a preservation group. A site like this that is rail connected is badly needed here in Ireland as the only mainline connected preservation site is Carrick on Suir which looks like it will have it's loop cut off faily soon.
Without a mainline connection railtours using preserved stock will be severly curtailed in the future. Even something like a small museum for preserved stock would be welcome.

I was in the Utrech Railway Museum there in January and the way they have things set up is brilliant. The took an abandoned station that was still connected to the network and transformed it into something quite spectacular. A meca for rail enthusiasts.

Why can't something like this be done here in Ireland. Surely the ITG, IRRS and IRPS could band together to give enough clout to see something like this take off. But with the amount of politicking and infighting that goes on in rail circles I wouldn't expect it to happen any times soon.

The stub was fenced off for several years too.

Sligo Quay

Hmmm the yard at Sligo Quay could be next on the hit list, if thats the case, tidying up the network.

gobnaitolunacy

The True Puka wrote: »

Why can't something like this be done here in Ireland. Surely the ITG, IRRS and IRPS could band together to give enough clout to see something like this take off. But with the amount of politicking and infighting that goes on in rail circles I wouldn't expect it to happen any times soon.

Why there will never be a standard gauge preserved line in the Rep.

It's about 50 years too late. All nice gear and lines best suited (and sited) to a successful operation are long gone. (just think, Harcourt st would have been a dinger of a base)

Dearth of population outside of main centres, to volunteer and to support with bums on seats.

A history of pres. groups which can be best described as 'colourful'.

By and large, a culture that is not pre-disposed to interests other than GAA, the craic and dhrink.

Preservation is not the remit of the IRRS, though back in the dim past I think the IRRS lobbied for a couple of retired CIE steam locos to be plinthed and these subsequently passed to the infant RPSI.

Losty Dublin

Sligo Quay wrote: »

Hmmm the yard at Sligo Quay could be next on the hit list, if thats the case, tidying up the network.

The yard was disconnected the other year, wasn't it? The branch remains as a siding though with it's dirty slope it's bugger all use for holding stock.

dm09

Victor wrote: »

Doing things costs money. Presumably disconnecting North Esk was cheaper than installing the required new signalling.

Presumably keeping the Barrack Street connection was cheaper than removing it, until now, although having points in place on an operational does cost a modest amount of money in maintenance and supervision.

This pic from about 2005 shown some wagons being stored there: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,704191,806232,7,0

What you can see from above in that image are not wagons but old sections of track stacked on top of each other which we're dumped there after a major track upgrade in the mid-late 90's.. visible here:



Diageo killed off rail freight in Dundalk when they decided to abandon a 100yr old tradition of moving the beer by rail in favour of road transit (because its cheaper)

The True Puka

With nay-sayer attitudes like that it's little wonder that there isn't a 5'3" preserved line. Look at the Tuam experience, that was up and running before it closed down and there is not a shortage of serviceable lines with the facilities.
For example, the South Wexford line is CWR for a lot of it's length and is well endowed with sidings and loop at wellington bridge. A decent train shed could be put up for 20K.
It would pay off in the long term to have the locos on a secure site with the ability to start and run them occasionally instead of being laid up in Moyasta.
Significant costs savings in the long term by avoiding the need for expensive cranes to shift them around.

davidlacey

The True Puka wrote: »

With nay-sayer attitudes like that it's little wonder that there isn't a 5'3" preserved line. Look at the Tuam experience, that was up and running before it closed down and there is not a shortage of serviceable lines with the facilities.
For example, the South Wexford line is CWR for a lot of it's length and is well endowed with sidings and loop at wellington bridge. A decent train shed could be put up for 20K.
It would pay off in the long term to have the locos on a secure site with the ability to start and run them occasionally instead of being laid up in Moyasta.
Significant costs savings in the long term by avoiding the need for expensive cranes to shift them around.

nah say attitudes are rampent in irish transport sure if irish rail really wanted a proper freight division it would be alive and well

The True Puka

davidlacey wrote: »

nah say attitudes are rampent in irish transport sure if irish rail really wanted a proper freight division it would be alive and well

And it also seems that they are rampant in the enthusiast and preservation community too. And then they are the first ones to start cribbing and moaning about a lack of this or that. I've made several suggestions over the years only to have them dismissed out of hand. In a lot of cases it's down to turf politics and golden circle hancho's wanting to keep things handy and local rather than send it to a better location somewhere more distant.