Autotune

yeppydeppy

So, I'm in a local bar and they are playing a selection of recent / chart music. One song after the other is autotuned. My question is: is autotune here to stay or will peoples tastes return to true musical ability? I think and hope it will die a death and real talent will shine through again but I don't know how long it will take.

kneemos

There's probably a generation that know nothing else so I'd say it's here to stay.

Nodin

Through years of listeing to hard core punk, thrash and the like, I have to say that the notion 'I wonder if they're using autotune' never occurred to me.

TroutMask

I like AutoTune. T-Pain uses it to great effect. Heard a trad guy with AutoTune on his vocals the other day - pretty funny.

o1s1n

It brought us 'Muslamic Ray Guns' - so it can't be all that bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU

GLaDOS

Maybe if you listen to ****e music, otherwise it isn't a problem

Nabber

I use auto tune on the radio. Its so much faster than manual.

These auto tune 'artist' are lazy, just like me with the radio. I don't buy their junk, so all the best. People who buy it, for shame on you.

Sky King

A lot of music uses autotune subtly and you don't know it - the software is extremely intelligent and works great to make mediocre singers sound great.

The effect I reckon you're talking about is / daft punk / cher-believe stylee, and that's basically autotune with the dials turned up to eleven.

i hope that dies a protracted and painful death. Awful, awful sound.

The mark of a really good singer is acapella singing live, without any of the 'studio magic'. If you can find the clip of Sinead O'Connor singing live on Ray D'Arcy you'll know what I mean by good singing talent. Breathtaking sound with out even so much as a hint of reverb on the track

Its a pity good singers are lumped in with crap ones but what can you do eh.

blow69

When Kanye West used it on his 808's & Heartbreak album, he was utilizing it to create a concept album which enabled him to 'sing'

He knows he can't sing.



Then there's people like will.i.am who also can't sing, but now insists on using it in all of his songs. I was listening to a song he has with Bieber earlier on the music channels. Horrible.

cletus van damme

autotune and charlie sheen. can't be bad, in fact it alone justifies autotune.

John.Icy

Sky King wrote: »

The effect I reckon you're talking about is / daft punk and that's basically autotune with the dials turned up to eleven.

i hope that dies a protracted and painful death. Awful, awful sound.

GTFO man...just GTFO.

frozenfrozen

It's just more bad music I don't listen to

yeppydeppy

I don't listen by choice but I'm subjected to it, almost everywhere, when will it end? Give me Old Crow Medicine Show any day. Please don't let someone come back with proof that they do.

hatrickpatrick

I'm a singer myself who has no problem staying in tune and in all honesty autotune does have its uses.
I won't get into the science of it here, but there's a whole world of complication when it comes to modern music. Because instruments like guitars and keyboards have the notes exactly spaced between eachother - but actual frequency ratios are almost never exactly equal distances from eachother - there are always subtle tuning issues with those instruments. Unless you have perfect or relative pitch you're not going to notice them, but because so many professional musicians DO have perfect or relative pitch, it becomes a problem for them while recording, which is why such instruments are often auto tuned prior to the singer recording the vocals, OR alternatively the singer with perfect pitch sings in "true" pitch and is therefore subtly out of tune with the equally tempered instruments.

Personally I don't have problems keeping my voice in tune, but I do tend to use melodyne to autotune the third in chords I play on guitar. I have relative pitch and I can acutely hear the fact that the third is never in a proper ratio with the other strings, depending on the key, and while others literally don't notice the difference, it sounds awful to me when I record my own stuff.

So basically, I wouldn't blame singers necessarily for the need for autotune in modern pop music, it doesn't necessarily mean they can't sing - rather, that most music we record these days is recorded with electronic instruments which divide notes into perfect intervals, which f*cks over anyone with perfect pitch who's trying to sing along with them.

Ruudi_Mentari

when an EDM fan drops an E they tend to come over all EDMO, that's all I know....

also if punk is daft, then so am I if it permits me to have testicles again.

yeppydeppy

I've no problem with it being used for instruments, we've had electric / modified sounds for donkeys and that's ok when it's done right. It's the singer's who can't sing is the problem or maybe they can and it's the music companies pushing it?

Dyr

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm a singer myself who has no problem staying in tune and in all honesty autotune does have its uses.
I won't get into the science of it here, but there's a whole world of complication when it comes to modern music. Because instruments like guitars and keyboards have the notes exactly spaced between eachother - but actual frequency ratios are almost never exactly equal distances from eachother - there are always subtle tuning issues with those instruments. Unless you have perfect or relative pitch you're not going to notice them, but because so many professional musicians DO have perfect or relative pitch, it becomes a problem for them while recording, which is why such instruments are often auto tuned prior to the singer recording the vocals, OR alternatively the singer with perfect pitch sings in "true" pitch and is therefore subtly out of tune with the equally tempered instruments.

Personally I don't have problems keeping my voice in tune, but I do tend to use melodyne to autotune the third in chords I play on guitar. I have relative pitch and I can acutely hear the fact that the third is never in a proper ratio with the other strings, depending on the key, and while others literally don't notice the difference, it sounds awful to me when I record my own stuff.

So basically, I wouldn't blame singers necessarily for the need for autotune in modern pop music, it doesn't necessarily mean they can't sing - rather, that most music we record these days is recorded with electronic instruments which divide notes into perfect intervals, which f*cks over anyone with perfect pitch who's trying to sing along with them.

Aboslutely, when I hear slight tuning differences between guitars and vocals it drives me mental. Here's a really obvious example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WusMzSL8ytM

SV

Bambi wrote: »

Aboslutely, when I hear slight tuning differences between guitars and vocals it drives me mental. Here's a really obvious example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WusMzSL8ytM

sweet jesus.

who in the name of god considers that abomination to be music?

pragmatic1

The only people who are paying for music are pre-teens or should I say the parents of pre-teens. That's why music has been consistently ****e for well over ten years. It caters specifically to that demographic.

TroutMask

SV wrote: »

sweet jesus.

who in the name of god considers that abomination to be music?

Napalm Death are a very important band

TroutMask

pragmatic1 wrote: »

The only people who are paying for music are pre-teens or should I say the parents of pre-teens. That's why music has been consistently ****e for well over ten years. It caters specifically to that demographic.

Can't really agree with this. I'm loving the wide range of music available on: CD, vinyl, cassette and iTunes. Probably spending more than I ever did on music these days.

mike65

Auto tune is just another modern blight, like over compression.

pragmatic1

TroutMask wrote: »

Can't really agree with this. I'm loving the wide range of music available on: CD, vinyl, cassette and iTunes. Probably spending more than I ever did on music these days.

I've maybe spent a tenner on music since I got an mp3 player about 6 years ago. Have thousands of songs on it though. The record industry is in major trouble and it's too good for them.

SV

TroutMask wrote: »

Napalm Death are a very important band

How do you make that out?

They sound like a very shít band to me

Mr. CooL ICE

Do you berleoeorve in leoeorf after lueuerve?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

hah , napalm death ,

they played the burned down theate royal in limerick in 1991 i think , i rem being in the local night spot later and they were there ,
they had their roadies going around beside groups of girls going ' hey , aint that the singer/ bass player / drummer with napalm death ' ?

****wits

Battleflag

It could be on it's way out, Adele is a prime example. She had one of the biggest selling albums in the past few years and has no autotune. Maybe there is a new era on the horizon? Probably not

Lithium93_

Auto tune should be banned outright in my opinion, music is supposed to be all about the human element mistakes and all, and not some computer program.

donegal_road

auto tune is widely used on the live music scene, even the odd pub band will have it built into their effects.

TroutMask

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Auto tune should be banned outright in my opinion, music is supposed to be all about the human element mistakes and all, and not some computer program.

Sure, and banking is about having a gold reserve to back up your paper currency!

TroutMask

SV wrote: »

How do you make that out?

They sound like a very shít band to me

Because they were one of the first Grindcore bands along with Carcass. Hugely influential on the subgenre Death Metal which followed/arose at the same time depending on where you stand. Saw them back in the day, they were great. An acquired taste, granted.

DarkJager

Lets not forget this absolute cringe inducing masterpiece

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5narBAuq87c

yeppydeppy

That's a joke right?

Sky King

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCcu0cbiEbs

yeppydeppy

I'm afraid to watch that.

jamie123

Well just because people use auto-tune does NOT mean they cant sing its just a good effect but however it can be a nuisance if its used on EVERY song an album like Bridgit Mendler uses too much of it even though she can sing live no problem.

SEPT 23 1989

jamie123 wrote: »

Well just because people use auto-tune does NOT mean they cant sing its just a good effect but however it can be a nuisance if its used on EVERY song an album like Bridgit Mendler uses too much of it even though she can sing live no problem.

it is not a good effect to anyone over 14

skimpydoo

yeppydeppy wrote: »

So, I'm in a local bar and they are playing a selection of recent / chart music. One song after the other is autotuned. My question is: is autotune here to stay or will peoples tastes return to true musical ability? I think and hope it will die a death and real talent will shine through again but I don't know how long it will take.

As long as people buy ****e like Brittany Spears, One Direction and X Factor acts it will stay.

frank reynolds

Im certainly not a fan of hers, but Lady Gaga apparently is au-naturale when recording her songs. she wants to prove a point of not using it, and she still sounds as perfectly in tune as the next pop-star who uses it.

bring back grunge that's what i say.
takes a LOT of work and effort to be able to scream/rasp in tune with a band, without it sounding sh!te.

greenflash

frank reynolds wrote: »

Im certainly not a fan of hers, but Lady Gaga apparently is au-naturale when recording her songs.

You mean she has her lad hanging out?

Somewhat Lacking

Extremely auto-tuned music is PAINFUL to listen to. No other word to describe it.

bnt

I don't need a singer to be perfectly in tune with the equal temperament scale. I would like a singer to be in tune with the song. :cool:

For example: if Björk had tried AutoTune on this, the computer would have crashed harder than a plane whose engines have dropped off. Yet it still works - for her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KxtgS2lU94

Sirsok

Music in my day didn't have people with long hair playing instruments loud

Music in my day didn't involve synth machines

Music in my day didn't involve people just talkin fast over a beat

Music in my day didn't involve autotune

Popular music will always change as shown over the years from rock to disco to electro to gangsta rap to whatever we have now....we are all just gettin old and associate the era we grew up in as the best formulae for music there is but it never stops evolving and soon enough autotune will be passé to

bnt

^^^ missing the point. Like all those things you mention, Autotune isn't on "on/off" effect. It's possible to use it subtly and effectively, and it's possible to over-use it and let it ruin the music.

For example, I wasn't the slightest bit offended by Cher's notorious use of Autotune on "Believe", because it seemed to me that its obvious use in some parts of the song was a deliberate effect, not an attempt to get away with something. That and the fact that Cher managed to stay in tune just fine without Autotune for several decades before that song i.e. we know she doesn't actually need it.

Then you listen to T-Pain ... I think the "T" stands for "Temporal", the lobe of my brain that experiences acute pain after songs like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noLrCDzAp5M

.

TroutMask

Wow, this is great! I love T-Pain - always have. His contribution to I'm On A Boat is sublime. Just goes to show that AutoTune, well-used, is a true artistic tool.

Capt'n Midnight

Auto tune is one thing

Spice Girls did like 20 takes on some songs, and studio guys went back over mixing the best bits, down to picking the best takes of individual words. Nowadays the software needs less manual input.



And then there is the Loudness War, which replaces sharp sounds with a wall of noise :mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LoudnessWar?from=Main.RecordOfLoudnessWar

Metallica's newest album Death Magnetic is so distorted and clipped that even mastering engineer Ted Jensen has criticized it, adding that he couldn't do anything since the preliminary mixes came in already "brick-walled". Interestingly, the version made for Guitar Hero 3 was based on a "rough mix" that features far more range, and those tracks have been subsequently ripped and distributed via peer-to-peer services. To sum up: Metallica, the anti-Napster poster boys, now have an album that can only be truly appreciated via piracy, and a video game featuring a guitar with 5 buttons on the fret-board is the best way to enjoy an album... the irony boggles the mind.

Lightbulb Sun

Sure even Bon Iver uses it. Granted it's used as a vocal effect to create a strange voice rather than a tool to enhance an average voice as your Chris Browns will do.

That Daft Punk vocal sound is actually a vocoder and has always been a trademark of their sound.

MadsL

Switch to Contemporary Country Rock, seems to be a bit more pride in vocal performance...unless I'm missing the suble auto-tune.

.jacksparrow.

I think Michael buble uses it in his new song.

Ruudi_Mentari

I trust its use is agreeable here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVKm19JMd9Q

Smiles35

That's not auto-tune Ruudi! That's being put through what's known as a Vocoder http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocoder

/Sound effect nazi :mad: