Garda visibility at speed traps?

Skuxx

Does anybody know the rules (if they exist at all) regarding Garda visibility at speed traps? I passed one today where a Garda was in the middle of a roundabout, hidden behind a sign on the roundabout, while his jeep was parked off a different exit from the roundabout in a gateway! I think I remember hearing that either the guard or his vehicle need to be visible although maybe I'm just dreaming this!!

Anan1

alan1990 wrote: »

Does anybody know the rules (if they exist at all) regarding Garda visibility at speed traps? I passed one today where a Garda was in the middle of a roundabout, hidden behind a sign on the roundabout, while his jeep was parked off a different exit from the roundabout in a gateway! I think I remember hearing that either the guard or his vehicle need to be visible although maybe I'm just dreaming this!!

Why would they need to be visible? The idea is to catch people speeding.

corktina

not cricket though is it!

Skuxx

Anan1 wrote: »

Why would they need to be visible? The idea is to catch people speeding.

I realise that, but why do they publish all the locations of the gosafe vans then? I'm just curious as I'm certain I heard something about it before!

pa990

alan1990 wrote: »

Does anybody know the rules (if they exist at all) regarding Garda visibility at speed traps? I passed one today where a Garda was in the middle of a roundabout, hidden behind a sign on the roundabout, while his jeep was parked off a different exit from the roundabout in a gateway! I think I remember hearing that either the guard or his vehicle need to be visible although maybe I'm just dreaming this!!

There are no rules

keithsfleet

alan1990 wrote: »

I realise that, but why do they publish all the locations of the gosafe vans then? I'm just curious as I'm certain I heard something about it before!

I heard something similar a few years back but I'm fairly certain it was pub talk.

Hootanany

That's entrapment

Mycroft H

The TC garda I got caught for 2 years back was in his navy uniform standing behind a bush. So yea, they're sneaky enough.

colm_mcm

alan1990 wrote: »

I realise that, but why do they publish all the locations of the gosafe vans then? I'm just curious as I'm certain I heard something about it before!

They want public support for the ans as there is the perception that a private company would take the 'shooting fish in a barrell' approach.

I've no problem with 'crouching Garda, hidden speedgun' kinda stuff.

ted1

Anan1 wrote: »

Why would they need to be visible? The idea is to catch people speeding.

No the idea is to deter people and being visible dies this. By catching people they fail to deter them as no one knows that they are there.

Being proactive is better than being reactive.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Fattes

I think I remember hearing that either the guard or his vehicle need to be visible although

In some U.S States but not in Ireland!

Iwannahurl

Hootanany wrote: »

That's entrapment

Rubbish.

Gosub

LOL Spot the copper.

Victor

Hootanany wrote: »

That's entrapment

Go on, explain who is encouraging you to break the law.

Can bank robbers claim the same if there is an unmarked garda car outside?

was.deevey

I realise that, but why do they publish all the locations of the gosafe vans then?

So that you wont drive like a lunatic in a known accident prone area ?

At the end of the day, you are breaking the law, you got caught, and if a evidence can be presented to prove it you are guilty.

I honestly have no sympathy for someone going 100 mph getting caught by a guard hiding behind a bush looking to get off on a technicality.

But I do there should be some tolerance at play +-5kph for arguments sake, getting caught doing 41 in a 40 zone IS ridiculous.

Iwannahurl

Victor wrote: »

Go on, explain who is encouraging you to break the law.

Can bank robbers claim the same if there is an unmarked garda car outside?

I think the view in certain quarters is that the speed camera operators are the robbers.

Hootanany

Speed checks are ment to visa Le to deter offenders hiding behind a bush is entrapment sorry on my phone for spelling.

Hootanany

Visable

Mycroft H

Hootanany wrote: »

Speed checks are ment to visa Le to deter offenders hiding behind a bush is entrapment sorry on my phone for spelling.

Ahh here. You're either breaking the speed limit or you're not. The law is pretty black and white on it. If you're breaking it, don't act surprised when you get caught.

ironclaw

There was some Health & Safety article I read debating whether they had to be wearing high-vis jackets when operating on or near a roadway. I think the final line was they were exempt. Not to be mistaken with the 'must be wearing a hat' malarkey. Either way, hiding is fair game.

Hootanany

I have never recieved points, but i was done before the points came in overtaking very slow vehicles on the Cavan bypass 3 mph above the limit.
I asked Garda am i allowed to go over the limit when overtaking, was told to pay ip as its a grey area.

Anan1

ted1 wrote: »

No the idea is to deter people and being visible dies this. By catching people they fail to deter them as no one knows that they are there.

What nonsense. A ticket is a real deterrent to speeding in a way that occasionally catching sight of a speed trap is not.

ironclaw

Hootanany wrote: »

I asked Garda am i allowed to go over the limit when overtaking, was told to pay ip as its a grey area.

There's no grey area. You can never, ever exceed the speed limit. If your doing 119km/h and someone wants to overtake you, they can legally do a maximum of 120km/h to do it.

ManMade

Hootanany wrote: »

Speed checks are ment to visa Le to deter offenders hiding behind a bush is entrapment sorry on my phone for spelling.

Entrapment is to trick someone into a crime to secure their prosecution. I hate speed cameras but fail to see how the guards are tricking people into speeding. Your either speeding or not.

If they were very visible people would just slow down for the camera... Although once you pass it now the chances of encountering another one soon is slim.:rolleyes:

slimjimmc

Hootanany wrote: »

Speed checks are ment to visa Le to deter offenders hiding behind a bush is entrapment sorry on my phone for spelling.

Not it's not.

I can only gather from your repeated (and incorrect) claim that you misunderstand what "entrapment" means so here's a Wikipedia article on it.

In criminal law, entrapment is conduct by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit

ted1

Anan1 wrote: »

What nonsense. A ticket is a real deterrent to speeding in a way that occasionally catching sight of a speed trap is not.

you don't recieve the ticket till after the offence has ben comitted and no one else knows.

by being visible, you slow down and don't commit and offence neither do the thousands of other drivers.

its abous preventing speeding, not dealing with the aftermath.

ted1

Hootanany wrote: »

That's entrapment

No its clearly not, for a good example of what entrapment is look up John Delorean founder of Delorean cars.

Hootanany

Surely being in plain site would deter speeders hiding is pure revenue raising.

was.deevey

Surely being in plain site would deter speeders hiding is pure revenue raising.

Deter speeders for what ? ... 100meters past the speedtrap when the likely hood of seeing another one is slim and none within a 50 mile radius.

The whole idea is that you NEVER know when there might be a speedtrap ahead, if you dont break the law, you wont get caught, simple concept really.

Celly Smunt

I tell what i hate,coming around a corner to have a load of guards hidden at a checkpoint and trying to slow down so you don't kill them.

Mr Simpson

Hootanany wrote: »

Surely being in plain site would deter speeders hiding is pure revenue raising.

Being in plain sight would deter someone from speeding at that location. Being hidden at all locations should deter from speeding in general, because you would never know where they are, imo

Marsden

ironclaw wrote: »

There's no grey area. You can never, ever exceed the speed limit. If your doing 119km/h and someone wants to overtake you, they can legally do a maximum of 120km/h to do it.

What if a lunatic was driving behind you at a ridiculous speed and a collision was imminent. There's always grey area's, especially in Ireland. We have narrow country lanes with speed limit's of 100 kph but stretches of the 3 lane wide Naas road are 50. Whoever decides speed limit's on these roads must have their head up their swiss. As for the initial post the OP should be right but I'm afraid isn't. Although it's not entrapment, some of the sneaky hiding spot's I've seen guard's using do nothing to help road safety. There's a particular road at the back of Lucan with a speed limit of 50. Driving on this road at 60kph feel's slow and the speed is rarely adhered to. Almost every Sunday a guard jump's on his bike head's down to the bus stop, put's the bike behind it and peep's from behind with his camera.

I'm all for road safety and would be considered an over cautious driver by most but with practices like this, I could easily end up with a ticket. Having to stare down at your speedometer every minute doesn't increase road safety, it just makes it worse.

Celly Smunt

Mr Simpson wrote: »

Being in plain sight would deter someone from speeding at that location. Being hidden at all locations should deter from speeding in general, because you would never know where they are, imo

I call bollocks on that,if that's the case we should have no speeding on roads now.

The_Nipper_One

Kind of a non issue if you obey the limits.

Mr Simpson

pmcmahon wrote: »

I call bollocks on that,if that's the case we should have no speeding on roads now.

A. I said should, not does

B. They arent hidden 99% of the time

C. The speed traps are nearly always in the same place

Oral Surgeon

Hootanany wrote: »

That's entrapment

No, this is entrapment

http://getvideoartwork.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=95396&g2_serialNumber=1

Anan1

ted1 wrote: »

you don't recieve the ticket till after the offence has ben comitted and no one else knows.

by being visible, you slow down and don't commit and offence neither do the thousands of other drivers.

its abous preventing speeding, not dealing with the aftermath.

Take it from an habitual speeder that penalty points work, visible speed traps/friendly words/slaps on the wrist do not. Your argument above would only make sense if there were visible speed traps everywhere.

pmcmahon wrote: »

I call bollocks on that,if that's the case we should have no speeding on roads now.

You're confusing deterrence with prevention.

Barcafan11

Surely they wouldn't be speed traps if you could see them. I would have thought thats the whole point of them. Apart from the few permanent speed cameras that are left, you just never know where they are going to be. I was caught speeding about 9 years ago by a speed trap and once bitten twice shy. €60 fine and 2 points. If they were easily visible people would obviously spot them and slow down. No lessons learned that way.

ironclaw

What if a lunatic was driving behind you at a ridiculous speed and a collision was imminent. There's always grey area's, especially in Ireland

Are you suggesting one should speed up? Increase speed? To avoid a collision?

Those 'what if's' and 'maybes' are the rare, far out examples and for a judge to decide in court if needed. I'm talking about normal, every day driving such as overtaking. The chances of you being caught for speeding during such a short lived, emergency scenario are slim and it would be for the consideration of the Garda involved. Who to be fair would probably take such considerations on board. Getting done for speeding while overtaking is not such a scenario. Its called a speed limit for a reason.

I'm actually struggling to find a scenario where you would need to increase speed to improve the outcome or safety of a situation. Rushing someone to hospital is the only one I can think of.

kirving

Did noone else get the entrapment joke?

GavRedKing

There's a certain place around my area where you come off a slight bend and into a downhill, straight section of road, about 500m away there is a wall where a Garda with a speed gun is reguarly behind pointing the gun up towards the hill, its a 50kmh zone most people coming around the bend would be doing in and around the 50-80kmh.

You literally could not see it until it's too late, sneaky but it's made sure anytime I'm on that stretch of road I'm watching my speed.

cup of tea

In my experience Gardaí love walls. First occasion was out by Bantry, there he was crouched behind the wall with the gun ballanced on top of the wall...gas man!. 2nd time was in Killarney, there was a gap in one of the stone walls, enough for one of the Guards to slide into...and so he did! with an outstretched arm holding the spped gun. Crouching garda, hidden speedgun.

Barcafan11

They used to have one outside the Hazel Hotel in Kildare town catching people approaching the town. There is a huge sign advertising the entertainment in the hotel, and the car would be parked behind it out of sight. Sneaky Sneaky.

ironclaw

Anytime I'm driving in hotspot's I'm always checking bus shelters, low walls or signage for the yellow high vis. A Garda will also rarely shoot into the sun (As sunlight affects that particular band of laser) Annoys me greatly when they flip the advantage in their favor and shoot as you drive into the sun. Double sneaky.

stoneill

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Did noone else get the entrapment joke?

no.

Valetta

ironclaw wrote: »

Anytime I'm driving in hotspot's I'm always checking bus shelters, low walls or signage for the yellow high vis. A Garda will also rarely shoot into the sun (As sunlight affects that particular band of laser) Annoys me greatly when they flip the advantage in their favor and shoot as you drive into the sun. Double sneaky.

Much easier to check your speedo, IMO.

Iwannahurl

ironclaw wrote: »

Anytime I'm driving in hotspot's I'm always checking bus shelters, low walls or signage for the yellow high vis.

Marsden wrote: »

Having to stare down at your speedometer every minute doesn't increase road safety, it just makes it worse.

Where should drivers be directing their attention?

Marsden

ironclaw wrote: »

Are you suggesting one should speed up? Increase speed? To avoid a collision?

Those 'what if's' and 'maybes' are the rare, far out examples and for a judge to decide in court if needed. I'm talking about normal, every day driving such as overtaking. The chances of you being caught for speeding during such a short lived, emergency scenario are slim and it would be for the consideration of the Garda involved. Who to be fair would probably take such considerations on board. Getting done for speeding while overtaking is not such a scenario. Its called a speed limit for a reason.

I'm actually struggling to find a scenario where you would need to increase speed to improve the outcome or safety of a situation. Rushing someone to hospital is the only one I can think of.

I thought there were no grey area's. For everyday driving though I agree with you, I don't mind the introduction of penalty points, lowering speed limits on certain roads and random breath tests if they save lives. I always thought it ironic that after reports on rising fatalities on Irish roads, a disproportionate amount which would occur on dangerous country blackspots, the speeds around Dublin would be reduced and extra speed traps would be set up. Has anyone here managed to do the speed limit on the quays. It's not easy to keep a car under 30.

ironclaw

Marsden wrote: »

I thought there were no grey area's.

Stay under the bridge, I clearly explained my viewpoint on it :rolleyes:

Has anyone here managed to do the speed limit on the quays. It's not easy to keep a car under 30.

Its a stupidly low speed limit but not impossible to keep to. Going in the direction of O'Connel Bridge to Guinness's isn't all that long and its known to be an enforcement hotspot. Anyone caught there is a lemon.

Where should drivers be directing their attention?

On the road. But being aware of 'the road' isn't just the car directly in front of you. Its the previous 4 cars you passed and the 10 cars ahead. Whats the first driver in the queue doing? Is that car in lane 1 going to jump across to lane 3? The junction, the up coming lights etc etc. Its global awareness and anticipation. Most drivers just can't do it, they're focus is that one car in their tunnel vision.

Once you got that, keeping an eye out for high vis jackets, unmarked Mondeo's, Avensis, Vovlo's, Subaru's etc is absolute second nature

Marsden

ironclaw wrote: »

Stay under the bridge, I clearly explained my viewpoint on it :rolleyes:

Not trolling at all, just pointing out that there's rarely a case of black in white in law. Which works out great for solicitors.:cool: