People who never worked getting medical cards

Treehousetim

A friend of mine works with immigrants in dublin. He said this particular group of people all have medical cards although they never once worked in ireland.
So it's free healthcare all the way. On the other hand, other mugs who work/worked ( irish and non irish who dont "qualify") are holding off on getting healthcare when sick due to the expense. Are we total fools?

Geuze

Thousands of people who never worked have med cards in Irl.

Most of them are Irish.



Bear in mind that hosp care in Irl is free, so med cards just save the costs of:

GP fees
Drugs up to 144 pm
A+E fee = 100

ahnowbrowncow

Jaysus OP, you're really grinding your axe about social welfare today

Treehousetim

Fair enough. I'm pissed off feeling like a mug.

Tails142

Geuze wrote: »

Thousands of people who never worked have med cards in Irl.

Most of them are Irish.



Bear in mind that hosp care in Irl is free, so med cards just save the costs of:

GP fees
Drugs up to 144 pm
A+E fee = 100

It's not free to go to the hospital, ranges from 75 euro upwards to a max of 750.

http://www.connollyhospital.ie/en/PatientsVisitors/Admissions/

Used to have a medical card when I was a kid, never really thought much about it. Now that I'm an adult and working I have to pay €80 a month on prescription costs and visit the doctor twice a year at 55 a pop. All I can do is claim 20% back from my tax bill at the end of the year. Don't forget about 75 a month VHI as well. So... its ok I have the money, but the medical card is a nice bonus if you can get it. That's just me on my own, dread to think when there are kids on the scene what I'll be forking out, at least I'll be able to benefit from the drugs payment scheme at last.

Bannasidhe

Treehousetim wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm pissed off feeling like a mug.

Not as much as a mug as you will feel should you ever become unemployed and claim all of these 'free' things your taxes and PRSI help fund- or should we assume you will never claim RA or a medical card or any form of social welfare?

Treehousetim

Anyway back to the topic, does every person have to pay the 75-100 bucks a day for hospital? What happens if you don't pay? Any consequences or does that depend on whether you are someone they can go after ( regular joe) or not?

Bannasidhe

Treehousetim wrote: »

Anyway back to the topic, does every person have to pay the 75-100 bucks a day for hospital? What happens if you don't pay? Any consequences or does that depend on whether you are someone they can go after ( regular joe) or not?

You will be billed by the HSE. There have been issues with non-payment by 'regular joes' so the HSE are being far stricter about following up.

Few years ago I was in and out of hospital and had an operation - no health insurance - bill came to over 1000 euro, paid it off in installments.

BTW - once one is in receipt of SW does one cease to be a 'regular joe'? If so, what does one become?

Tails142

Treehousetim wrote: »

Anyway back to the topic, does every person have to pay the 75-100 bucks a day for hospital? What happens if you don't pay? Any consequences or does that depend on whether you are someone they can go after ( regular joe) or not?

I know someone in work who got a letter from a debt collection agency called Inturum Justitia for not paying a €75 hospital charge in time.

Treehousetim

Nope - regular joe being someone either on welfare or not, who abides by the law, insofar as giving a crap about being issued with a legal letter.

goose2005

OP, the medical card is based on need, not on how much you pay in. Children and teenagers get it too. Really, immigrants aren't a huge strain on services, given that they're generally able-bodied healthy young people.

Geuze wrote: »

Thousands of people who never worked have med cards in Irl.

Most of them are Irish.



Bear in mind that hosp care in Irl is free, so med cards just save the costs of:

GP fees
Drugs up to 144 pm
A+E fee = 100

Also dental and maternity.

Cody Pomeray

Hey guys guess what, we have a system in Ireland that says you won't die or suffer pain if you can't afford (i.e. are living on less than €184 a week for a single person) to go to a Doctor.

I can only imagine what sort of Victorian alternative the OP, and his friend regaling horror stories of immigrants receiving healthcare, are actually proposing.

-Deport the infirm?
-Casual labour in the hospital campus in return for a bed?
-Sick immigrants on sewing machines for Irish export goods?

Seriously, what?

Treehousetim

You are making the assumption that people without medical cards can all afford to go to the doctor.

Cody Pomeray

No, I'm not at all.

Unless I am mistaking your argument, and you don't have a problem with immigrants getting the medical card, and you only want to extend its availability?

Is that it? Keep the immigrants' entitlement?

Treehousetim

The healthcare budget has its limits. Therefore extending it to all will mean those who had it before will get less.

Cody Pomeray

Extending it to all would also be 100% bonkers.

I don't see your point, Tim.

Bannasidhe

I would like to know what the OP means by 'immigrants' - is it all immigrants including those from the UK and other E.U. countries?

Is it Non- E.U. immigrants?

Is it refugees?

Treehousetim

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Extending it to all would also be 100% bonkers.

I don't see your point, Tim.

In some countries all are entitled to free primary care. Why is that so bonkers?

Cody Pomeray

Treehousetim wrote: »

In some countries all are entitled to free primary care. Why is that so bonkers?

Oh just an ideological preoccupation I have about access to certain services being based on the ability to pay. Never mind that.

I'm more interested in this question of immigrants.

Have we now established that your problem is not with immigrants, but in fact with the fact that everybody doesn't have a medical card?

Is that the new point? Are you accepting that immigrants who cannot afford to see a Doctor must be granted medical treatment?

Bannasidhe

Treehousetim wrote: »

In some countries all are entitled to free primary care. Why is that so bonkers?

You think we should have an NHS? - I agree.
But the decision not to have an NHS style health service was not made by people who have medical health cards. It was made by people who retired on generous pensions paid by the taxpayer.

Perhaps we should be focusing on the fees doctors charge - yes, it is often too expensive for an employed person to visit their GP which begs the question how is someone whose weekly income is 188 euro meant to be able to afford 50 euro out of that to pay a GP?

Geuze

OK, ok

I missed the fourth main h/c charge


(1) GP fees
(2) drugs up to 144pm
(3) A/E fee = 100, free with GP letter
(4) hosp care is 75 per night up to max of 750 pa.


Maternity is totally free at point of care.

Treehousetim

I think A/E is free for medical card holders. To be honest that list if entitlements is great. I struggle to afford to go to doctor and my family the same.
More often than not I just don't go and I know lots of people the same.

According to HSE figures, an average medical card holder gets about €280 in free GP fees and over €800 in free drugs each year.

titan18

Geuze wrote: »

OK, ok

I missed the fourth main h/c charge


(1) GP fees
(2) drugs up to 144pm
(3) A/E fee = 100, free with GP letter
(4) hosp care is 75 per night up to max of 750 pa.


Maternity is totally free at point of care.

I dont think that's right at all. Afaik, the 144pm is for the Drug Payments Scheme, which you can get if not eligible for the medical card. The medical card is you pay 1.50 per prescription, but each family/person will only pay up to 19.50 per month in charges.

nesf

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You think we should have an NHS? - I agree.

I don't. It's the same as the water charges argument, if you don't have to pay for it some people will take the piss. In the UK I've friends who tell me of waiting lists to see their GP during busy times mainly due to an attitude of go to the doctor for anything wrong with you because, well, it's free inn'it attitude amongst some people. I also have a friend over there who is in a nightmare scenario where his wife is bedridden most of the time due to severe pain but no cause has been found. They ended up having to go private even though they can't afford it really because of quotas and other nonsense about referrals (GPs are given targets for referring patients on up the chain, you're rewarded if you refer fewer patients than the target). Paying for the GP is not pleasant and definitely not cheap, I get hit more times a year than most people because I've a long term illness and need regular bloods taken and whatnot. But if the alternative is waiting for three days when I or one of my kids have a chest infection I'd rather be ponying up the cash.

Now subsidising GP care and leaving some kind of cost like €20 there, that I wouldn't have a problem with. There's only a problem if you have it free or something small like a fiver.

Treehousetim

Excellent post. There is a problem with abuse when things are free. But try getting the generations of people who had freebies 4 ever to pay. They will feel so wronged! Usual whineing of being entitled and persecution of the poor will be rolled out.

Bannasidhe

nesf wrote: »

I don't. It's the same as the water charges argument, if you don't have to pay for it some people will take the piss. In the UK I've friends who tell me of waiting lists to see their GP during busy times mainly due to an attitude of go to the doctor for anything wrong with you because, well, it's free inn'it attitude amongst some people. I also have a friend over there who is in a nightmare scenario where his wife is bedridden most of the time due to severe pain but no cause has been found. They ended up having to go private even though they can't afford it really because of quotas and other nonsense about referrals (GPs are given targets for referring patients on up the chain, you're rewarded if you refer fewer patients than the target). Paying for the GP is not pleasant and definitely not cheap, I get hit more times a year than most people because I've a long term illness and need regular bloods taken and whatnot. But if the alternative is waiting for three days when I or one of my kids have a chest infection I'd rather be ponying up the cash.

Now subsidising GP care and leaving some kind of cost like €20 there, that I wouldn't have a problem with. There's only a problem if you have it free or something small like a fiver.

I lived in the UK for ten years before the Tory's began to dismantle the NHS (quotas/trusts/ etc) and never had to wait 3 days for an appointment - that is the NHS I am referring to...

As for going because it's free innit - my mother does something similar as 'sure she is paying (or rather my brother is...) for the top VHI package and she may as well get something for her (his) money.'

Bannasidhe

Treehousetim wrote: »

Excellent post. There is a problem with abuse when things are free. But try getting the generations of people who had freebies 4 ever to pay. They will feel so wronged! Usual whineing of being entitled and persecution of the poor will be rolled out.

Just to extend this 'for free' theme - what about free third level fees?

Yes, I know there is a substantial capitation fee but it does not go towards the actual fees and even if it did would constitute at least a 50% discount on what the fees would be - should we stop that too? If we did the middle classes would be screaming about being squeezed and students (and future students) would be protesting on the streets. Again.

I work as a 3rd level lecturer and I have seen first hand how many students abuse their 'free' fees...

Do we make people pay for health care even when they are in receipt of SW but continue to subsidise 3rd level education to mollify the middle class?

Cody Pomeray

Treehousetim wrote: »

I think A/E is free for medical card holders. To be honest that list if entitlements is great. I struggle to afford to go to doctor and my family the same.
More often than not I just don't go and I know lots of people the same.

According to HSE figures, an average medical card holder gets about €280 in free GP fees and over €800 in free drugs each year.

4 posts before this and you were asking why universally free health care was bonkers.

If you could sum up your point in a line, Tim, what would it be, exactly?

Treehousetim

Bannasidhe, Gp visit could be 15 euros for someone on medical card/gp card then 25euros for the rest. As for college fees, isn't everyone entitled not just middle class? And you get grants if you are from a family with low means no?

nesf

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I lived in the UK for ten years before the Tory's began to dismantle the NHS (quotas/trusts/ etc) and never had to wait 3 days for an appointment - that is the NHS I am referring to...

As for going because it's free innit - my mother does something similar as 'sure she is paying (or rather my brother is...) for the top VHI package and she may as well get something for her (his) money.'

And why were the quotas/trusts/etc brought in? Because the system was far too expensive. Was there an ideological element? Certainly, many Tories would dismantle the NHS completely if they could. Were they wrong though? Labour were in Government for quite a long time there, if it was a purely ideological thing those Tory changes would have been reversed no? I mean improving the NHS and keeping it free is a vote winner for a left party plain and simple.


The VHI? Eh, hardly anything is free, you get some partial payment on some things up to a limit and for nearly everything else there's a substantial excess.

nesf

Treehousetim wrote: »

Gp visit could be 15 euros for someone on medical card/gp card then 25euros for the rest. As for college fees, isn't everyone entitled not just middle class? And you get grants if you are from a family with low means no?

15 is much too high for the medical card, might be ok for the GP card but it would be hard on people.