Losses at An Post.

Xenophile

An Post recorded an after tax loss of €40 million for 2012.

With traditional mail continually decreasing I suggest that mail deliveries be reduced from 5 days to 3 days. Suggested delivery days Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

Also on a different aspect of their business I suggest that they end their policy of selling greeting cards in their main offices (not sub post offices). It is unfair competition for Newsagents and Card Shops to have to compete with State subsidised outlets.

The above changes should only be achieved through voluntary redundancies, early retirement, etc.

markpb

Is their annual report available online anywhere or where did you see that?

It's not just card sales that An Post compete with the private sector in. And there's the small issue of the several government contracts that are issued to An Post without a tender like State Savings and (previously) DSW payments.

squod

There's room for expansion in every business once the market is there. What they need is a strategist. There's a PO in most every community operating from a secure premises. It would take a team of dumbasses to fuhk-up or over look potential the PO network has.

I can think of a few subscription services off the top of my head that might be viable.

Xenophile

markpb wrote: »

Is their annual report available online anywhere or where did you see that?

Yesterday's Irish Times.

Rascasse

Reports can be found here.
In reality they lost only €17m as there was a one-off pension charge.

The Group operating loss for the year is €17.5m. Comparison with the prior year, when
there was an operating profit of €2.2m, needs to take into account the significant one
off mails revenue of €28m arising from a General and Presidential electionin 2011.
Turnover from continuing operations at €807.3m is marginally upon 2011. The decline in
traditional mails volumes continued. The year saw increased revenue from subsidiaries.
The programme of cost reduction in the core business continued during 2012.
The Group result aftertaxwas a loss of €39.4m,having taken into account a charge
of €19.8mafter pension accounting, a Group corporation tax charge of €0.1m and the
minority share of profits in subsidiaries of €2.0m.
The pension deficit has decreased from €483.6mat 31 December 2011 to €284.6m
at 31 December 2012 reflecting good investment returns during 2012 and a
reassessment of assumptions in relation to future pay and pension increases.

Legally they can't reduce the the number of deliveries and it would be commercial suicide if the did. They need greater efficiency, fewer staff, and to sort out their pricing. I saw in another thread that to send a 20kg package to Australia by Air Mail costs €65 (there is no difference in cost sending 5kg to 20kg), yet to send one the other way by sea was over twice as expensive! Meanwhile many large multinationals have moved their mailing operations away from Ireland due to several price rises over the years and the availability of consolidators elsewhere in Europe.

Interesting that the new Chairman comes from Deutsche Post, a very successful privatised mail service. A clue to the future perhaps?

Pete_Cavan

Xenophile wrote: »

An Post recorded an after tax loss of €40 million for 2012.

Hardly surprising considering they are yet another semi state company, afforded protection from competition by the state, and continue to operate in a bubble insulated from commercial reality. Just look at the postcode situation.

An Post has opposed the introduction of postcodes in order to maintain its advantage over private courier services and has found a way to prevent the introduction of postcodes despite in 2005 Noel Dempsey announcing that postcodes will be introduced in Ireland by 1st January 2008. An Post want to introduce a system which will only identify a cluster of houses, rather than an individual property using a GPS based system. Not much good in a country where many people living in rural (and even some urban) areas share the same postal address, particularly confusing when there are people with the same surname living at different addresses within the same townland! Instead of developing a system which would benefit the country as a whole, An Post want a system that would be of little help to an ambulance, a courier or a postman that does not know the area, for purely selfish reasons.

A private company, loc8, has already developed a system which identifies individual properties and can be used with satnavs but An Post, like other semi state companies, will still remain in the Dark Ages while the taxpayer subsidies their inefficiency and incompetence. There is a case to be made that An Post provide an important public service and therefore does not necessarily have to cover its own costs, but when they actively prevent the introduction of a system which would save businesses a lot of money through increased efficiency and also allow emergency services to get to properties faster, you have to question why unelected people there have so much power.

Xenophile

Rascasse wrote: »

Legally they can't reduce the the number of deliveries and it would be commercial suicide if the did.

Firstly the law can be changed. I don't accept that income would reduce substantially as people would adjust to the new arrangement. By the way I remember when the Post Office had two deliveries per day and also a Saturday delivery.

I would also suggest that last time of posting be in main post offices be pushed out to 6.30 and give people who are late leaving the office and the general public a bit more flexibility.

Judgement Day

Given the losses at An Post why does the CEO Donal Connell receive €400k as a salary and what does the CEO actually do? As for no competition - every hacker with four wheels under them are fighting for the small parcels/letter business - some posters would need to take their blinkers off. The suggestion that the company cut back their deliveries to three days a week is obviously made by somebody who has no clue how vital an every day delivery is to business - if anything the frequency of delivery should be increased. It was twice a day including Saturday when I was growing up. There's lots wrong at An Post but reliable, five-day a week deliveries is not part of the problem and raising postage costs not part of the solution.

Nonsensical development of new sorting facilities comfy staff quarters and car parking as here in Enniscorthy while retaining the existing premises is the sort of thing that needs looking into. The whole farce that was the An Post SDS parcels delivery is the sort of management inspired nonsense that has wrecked the company.

I note that the An Post board consists of the usual suspects - political appointees, long serving management types and employee reps and, of course, no representatives of the users: http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/About+An+Post/The+Board+and+Executive/

bobwilliams

An post is a feckinn joke.
I know people that work there on shiftwork and they're all gone home bar 1 or 2 at 2am even though they're contracted to work to 6 or 7 in the morning.

And that's every night.It's an ongoing joke at this stage.

dsmythy

An Post oppose postcodes because they would have to pay for it while competitors get it without putting anything towards it. They've made recent investments in new machines which are cutting the number of workers needed and putting some nice retirement packages out there. Unions within still much too strong though so management need to become unafraid or watch the whole operation sink.

ted1

They've a huge fleet of modern vans surly if the extended the life of the vans they would save a packet say replace every 5 instead of 2 years

Sleepy

A heavily unionised, semi-state behemoth is losing money.

Is this even news?

Going Forward

Delivery costs could be substantially reduced by delivering to rural areas 3 days a week instead of 5.

Judgement Day

Going Forward wrote: »

Delivery costs could be substantially reduced by delivering to rural areas 3 days a week instead of 5.

Great idea. Sure while they you're at it why not have recipients texted and told to come in and collect their mail from the nearest large sorting office. :rolleyes:

Xenophile

Judgement Day wrote: »

Great idea. Sure while they you're at it why not have recipients texted and told to come in and collect their mail from the nearest large sorting office. :rolleyes:

No ! this would not work as the charge for the privilege of collecting your own mail a short few years ago was €100.

Judgement Day

Xenophile wrote: »

No ! this would not work as the charge for the privilege of collecting your own mail a short few years ago was €100.

I wasn't seriously suggesting it as a solution but it seems in line with the nonsensical idea of reducing delivery days.

Xenophile

Judgement Day wrote: »

I wasn't seriously suggesting it as a solution but it seems in line with the nonsensical idea of reducing delivery days.

On the contrary it makes good sense and I am sure it will happen sooner or later!

Scortho

Xenophile wrote: »

No ! this would not work as the charge for the privilege of collecting your own mail a short few years ago was €100.

They charged you to do their job for them? Ah now here, that'd be like Michael o Leary charging you 100 quid to unload your bag from the baggage area!

hmmm

From my perspective they've made no effort to change their operations to facilitate the 21st century and Internet shopping. They're still stuck in a 1950s mentality where the business is run for the workers and not for the customer.

I don't care what they do to plug the gap, just as long as it isn't my pocket they put their hand into. They can increase the price of a stamp to a hundred euro for all I care, putting up prices in a decreasing market and driving people to cheaper alternatives seems like a strange decision.

Xenophile

Scortho wrote: »

They charged you to do their job for them? Ah now here, that'd be like Michael o Leary charging you 100 quid to unload your bag from the baggage area!

This is the fact of the matter, at that time the €100 was an annual fee for post to be collected which was addressed to a Box Number. Come, come, now, please don't be giving Michael O'Leary any more ideas.

manna452121

Xenophile wrote: »

Firstly the law can be changed. I don't accept that income would reduce substantially as people would adjust to the new arrangement. By the way I remember when the Post Office had two deliveries per day and also a Saturday delivery.

I would also suggest that last time of posting be in main post offices be pushed out to 6.30 and give people who are late leaving the office and the general public a bit more flexibility.

The majority of mail being collected nationwide goes to 4 sorting locations,Dublin,Cork,Porlaiose and Athlone.If the mail leaving the local post office was changed then the mail getting to the sorting units would be delayed leaving.This would have a knock on affect to all deliveries.

Scortho

Xenophile wrote: »

This is the fact of the matter, at that time the €100 was an annual fee for post to be collected which was addressed to a Box Number. Come, come, now, please don't be giving Michael O'Leary any more ideas.

I'd have no problem with ducksie charging people who didn't take their baggage from the luggage hold. May create issues of Health and safety but If he could around these and it meant cheaper flights for the likes of carry ons, I'd be well for it!

I understand them charging for a po. Box. The price is a bit on the high side though. In effect I'm doing part of their job.

Xenophile

manna452121 wrote: »

The majority of mail being collected nationwide goes to 4 sorting locations,Dublin,Cork,Porlaiose and Athlone.If the mail leaving the local post office was changed then the mail getting to the sorting units would be delayed leaving.This would have a knock on affect to all deliveries.

With motorways all over the country now mail gets to these sorting offices very quickly. An Post needs to be more customer focused, as has been pointed out very eloquently on this thread. There is hardly any main An Post branch in Ireland more than two hours away from the above mentioned centers. Well at least they could move the last posting times in the main branches to 6.00 pm. at least.

Judgement Day

Xenophile wrote: »

With motorways all over the country now mail gets to these sorting offices very quickly. An Post needs to be more customer focused, as has been pointed out very eloquently on this thread. There is hardly any main An Post branch in Ireland more than two hours away from the above mentioned centers. Well at least they could move the last posting times in the main branches to 6.00 pm. at least.

Would there be signs at the main branches indicating what day mail would be delivered on e.g. if their letter was posted on a Wednesday that it would sit in a mail bag somewhere until the Friday delivery?

Xenophile

Judgement Day wrote: »

Would there be signs at the main branches indicating what day mail would be delivered on e.g. if their letter was posted on a Wednesday that it would sit in a mail bag somewhere until the Friday delivery?

Yes this would be a good idea and of course they could do a letter box drop.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84139590&postcount=7744

If An Post actually advertised how the service works it might be taken more seriously. Between people re-using stamps, putting 55c stamps on huge heavy envelopes and generally taking the p*ss with An Post's time and money, a huge amount would be saved if An Post would just make the service/procedures/policies clearer.

There was a price increase recently - I didn't hear anything about it. Now I'm not much of a newspaper reader so maybe it was just me who missed it but you'd think there'd be some sort of widespread announcement.

As far as I'm aware, a 60c stamp covers the smallest, lightest category of local post. Yet I know people who regurlarly send large, heavy post with no extra postage on them. I can only assume that it's more hassle to An Post to deal with this than to just deliver it anyway, particularly when there's no return address. Which is why these people are able to keep sending post half-paid for.

Scortho

true-or-false wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84139590&postcount=7744

If An Post actually advertised how the service works it might be taken more seriously. Between people re-using stamps, putting 55c stamps on huge heavy envelopes and generally taking the p*ss with An Post's time and money, a huge amount would be saved if An Post would just make the service/procedures/policies clearer.

There was a price increase recently - I didn't hear anything about it. Now I'm not much of a newspaper reader so maybe it was just me who missed it but you'd think there'd be some sort of widespread announcement.

As far as I'm aware, a 60c stamp covers the smallest, lightest category of local post. Yet I know people who regurlarly send large, heavy post with no extra postage on them. I can only assume that it's more hassle to An Post to deal with this than to just deliver it anyway, particularly when there's no return address. Which is why these people are able to keep sending post half-paid for.

My mam sends christmas cards to the states on the 55c/60c ones.
What they need to do is refuse to send the likes of these. Parcel to heavy/letter to big/stamp to low a value, well then tough luck, that aint getting posted. Returned to seller, with a fee as well, or shredded if no senders address is on it.
On the 60c stamp issue, they should advertise it in the postoffice window before its purchased, with significant notice, eg national stamp price rising in 3 months. Word of mouth as well as frequent visits to post office to buy stamps and send letters/parcels is enough in my opinion.
Tesco dont advertise that the price of their bread has increased, except on the shelf, if you knew the previous price.
They dont need to waste money running advertisements across all forms of media to let people know that the price is rising by 5c. An even simpler solution would be to stamp all envelopes with the price rise details.
They do/did do this on envelopes that went through the sorting office along the lines of pay your bills on time, or last day for posting for christmas is day x.
But these kind of changes would only happen if its a private company.

spank_inferno

We get our post every 2nd day (Mon-Wed-Fri).
And An Post won't deliver parcels of any size.... (we just get the slip to collect from sorting depot).

There is not much room to cut services further.

Payroll savings would probably be needed.

Scortho

Scortho wrote: »

What they need to do is refuse to send the likes of these.

On the 60c stamp issue, they should advertise it in the postoffice window before its purchased, with significant notice, eg national stamp price rising in 3 months.

They dont need to waste money running advertisements across all forms of media to let people know that the price is rising by 5c. An even simpler solution would be to stamp all envelopes with the price rise details.

Agreed, that's a good idea.

I have to say, as much as I've been less than happy with them in the past (like constantly getting post from the same number house on the next road over), I think that as a semi-state (?) company, people are quick to villainise them and say good riddance rather than actually try to find constructive solutions, which would benefit both the company, the state and the public.

spank_inferno

true-or-false wrote: »

try to find constructive solutions, which would benefit both the company, the state and the public.

1) Post code system, not in the future... now.

2) Privatise, with a certainty that there will be no designated employee share ownership trusts.

Going Forward

Judgement Day wrote: »

Great idea. Sure while they you're at it why not have recipients texted and told to come in and collect their mail from the nearest large sorting office. :rolleyes:

Why should as little as one piece of mail (or one piece of junkmail) be personally delivered to my address each day of the week when 3 or 4 could be delivered on the same day??

There is no need for this waste of time and energy in rural areas.

Scortho

Going Forward wrote: »

Why should as little as one piece of mail (or one piece of junkmail) be personally delivered to my address each day of the week when 3 or 4 could be delivered on the same day??

There is no need for this waste of time and energy in rural areas.

The only thing I can think of is companies who'd have cheques and tenders coming in, but you could probably go down the route of express post for urgent post that needs faster delivery.

Judgement Day

Going Forward wrote: »

Why should as little as one piece of mail (or one piece of junkmail) be personally delivered to my address each day of the week when 3 or 4 could be delivered on the same day??

There is no need for this waste of time and energy in rural areas.

Perhaps this would suit you but a lot of people and businesses rely on daily mail services. A solution that might be better for you would be a process where you could sign a form to opt out of the postal service - sort of like being ex.directory with the telephone. Of course this would result in difficulties for you if you ever wanted something posted to you but that would be your problem.

StillWaters

Is the losses recorded only on their postal services? I would have thought their move into financial services as banks exit the high street would have been lucrative for them, eg NIB customers now use An Post for all their cash transactions.

Pete_Cavan

true-or-false wrote: »

I have to say, as much as I've been less than happy with them in the past (like constantly getting post from the same number house on the next road over), I think that as a semi-state (?) company, people are quick to villainise them and say good riddance rather than actually try to find constructive solutions, which would benefit both the company, the state and the public.

Do you mean constructive solutions, which would benefit both the company, the state and the public like introducing postcodes - because An Post are doing their best to prevent that. An Post, in an act of self-preservation, want a "postal address" system solely for the purpose of helping them to sort mail, as opposed to a postcode which would have wider benefits. An Post are battling their Regulator in the courts (guess who pays for that?) in order to gain more power and continue with their outdated ways. Details of the case here which ComReg are now appealing. Now you might think it doesnt really matter whether their address is Watergrasshill or Rathcormac, but it certainly does if an ambulance is looking for that location. An Post should stop their self-serving protectionism and accept that what the country needs is a unique identifier system which will provide for a speedy response by emergency services, will provide greater efficiency and interaction with GPS technologies, will improve business efficiency and will support spatial planning and coordinating of state services. So personally I see nothing wrong with villainising An Post seeing as they are happy to screw the taxpayers who pay for their company losses.

thebman

StillWaters wrote: »

Is the losses recorded only on their postal services? I would have thought their move into financial services as banks exit the high street would have been lucrative for them, eg NIB customers now use An Post for all their cash transactions.

They are massively over priced on things like insurance from what I can see though.

It seems that way with a lot of their products where you'd consider using them except they are too expensive.

carpejugulum

One half of An Post revenues comes from the welfare contract. So the company would have been bankrupt/significantly restructured if it wasn't for that.
An Post, like RTE and others, keeps wasting public resources and preventing better options for the public.

Rascasse

carpejugulum wrote: »

One half of An Post revenues comes from the welfare contract. So the company would have been bankrupt/significantly restructured if it wasn't for that.
An Post, like RTE and others, keeps wasting public resources and preventing better options for the public.

That isn't even remotely accurate. Postal activities represent nearly 71% of their Irish revenues. Social welfare revenue comes under a bucket that also includes bill payments, AIB etc and totals 22% of revenue.

An Posts problems are efficiency and staff costs. They reduced their head count this year and I imagine that will continue for many years to come. I also saw that stamps will go up each year with inflation which should help too.

What better options are An Post preventing? There really isn't room for more than one postal operator in Ireland.

Going Forward

Judgement Day wrote: »

I wasn't seriously suggesting it as a solution but it seems in line with the nonsensical idea of reducing delivery days.

Theres a new thing now called email, might catch on:D

Judgement Day

Going Forward wrote: »

Theres a new thing now called email, might catch on:D

Yeah and it's really useful for people wanting to send anything by way of a large envelope and bigger.

belcampprisoner

stop rural deliveries,give everyone free post box,once a week they could come to post office to collect mail

put ads on stamps.

put ads on post boxes, and uniforms, and vans and bikes

charge 1 euro to collect pension or other social welfare checks

start selling milk etc in post offices

Going Forward

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yeah and it's really useful for people wanting to send anything by way of a large envelope and bigger.

Part of a solution may be to introduce a business/premium rate for required next day deliveries alongside a lower rate for 'personal" post to be delivered within 2-3 days?

Busted Flat.

Why do they not ask Paddy Power to pay back the money the manager gambled in Gorey. It might ease things a bit. Then again what were the fat cats in on post doing while the manager gambled the money while he was in charge of.
Is he the exception.

Judgement Day

belcampprisoner wrote: »

stop rural deliveries,give everyone free post box,once a week they could come to post office to collect mail

put ads on stamps.

put ads on post boxes, and uniforms, and vans and bikes

charge 1 euro to collect pension or other social welfare checks

start selling milk etc in post offices

Hello! Rural people are taxpayers too and thus are entitled to the same service as those living in urban areas. However, your idea has some merit assuming in return that rural dwellers have their income tax slashed.

Busted Flat.

carpejugulum wrote: »

Postal activities don't generate profit. An Post would collapse without the welfare contract.

An Post spends 72% on its staff so it's obvious what needs to be cut.

It could help, to cut out online gambling, and internet connection, to Paddy Power.

carpejugulum

Judgement Day wrote: »

Hello! Rural people are taxpayers too and thus are entitled to the same service as those living in urban areas. However, your idea has some merit assuming in return that :rolleyes:rural dwellers have their income tax slashed.

Rural services are subsidized by urban taxpayers.

Busted Flat.

carpejugulum wrote: »

Rural services are subsidized by urban taxpayers.

Does that mean, equality does not exist in this Kip. Try and remember, most people living in Dublin have culchies as parents. Cop on.

spank_inferno

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Try and remember, most people living in Dublin have culchies as parents.

Dont mean to sidetrack, but no..... most dubs have dub parents.

Most cork people have corkonion parents... etc.

Xenophile

carpejugulum wrote: »

Rural services are subsidized by urban taxpayers.

Urban dwellers but especially companies and organisations based in Dublin have an on going need to send mail to rural addresses.

Judgement Day

Xenophile wrote: »

Urban dwellers but especially companies and organisations based in Dublin have an on going need to send mail to rural addresses.

Surely companies can use DHL or some such, and the urban dwellers can send the mail down monthly with the V d P food parcels. I have to say that some of the contributions in this thread are so daft that I keep checking that the thread isn't in AH. :rolleyes:

carpejugulum

Xenophile wrote: »

Urban dwellers but especially companies and organisations based in Dublin have an on going need to send mail to rural addresses.

Which is rapidly diminishing. The biggest regular senders of mail - e.g. banks and utility companies - try to sign up everyone to email delivery.
Parcels can be send by competitors, who would be much cheaper if they did not have to compete with such an unfair competitor.