€800 -€1.2k gaming computer

MisterMioster

1. What is your budget? [€1000~ willing to go 100 or 200 over if needed]

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [Gaming] (If gaming include which games: ARMA II, ARMA III, Battlefield 3/4)

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [No, I have no parts]

5. Do you need a monitor? [Yes]

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [Preferably a 22 inch or 24 inch, at 1920x1080]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? [1920x1080/1440x900/etc.] [Yes/No]

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [Keyboard/Mouse/Wireless Card/Card Reader/Speakers/etc.] I need a keyboard, mouse, wireless card, decent default speakers on the case. I don't know what a card reader does in detail, but if it's needed, yes.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [No unless it's safe]

8. How can you pay? [Credit Card/Laser]

9. When are you purchasing? [In 10-60 days]

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? [County Wicklow.]

BloodBath

All you need is a keyboard. The German layout is different.

The case also comes in silver or white.

There's good overclocking potential here too.

Item|Price
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€207.02
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€29.83
ASRock Z77 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€82.94
8GB G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-10667U CL9|€49.23
Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 XT Boost, 2GB GDDR5, DVI, HDMI, 2x Mini DisplayPort, lite retail|€225.36
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.62
Cooltek Antiphon Black, ohne Netzteil|€64.00
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 450W|€50.76
Samsung SSD 840 120GB SATA 6Gb/s|€85.16
WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€58.01
LG 22EA53VQ-P|€134.16
MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) Englisch|€85.50
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.19
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Wavemaster MX-3+|€39.99
TP-Link TL-WN781N, 150Mbps, PCIe x1|€9.90
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1184.65

MisterMioster

http://www.hardwareversand.de/USB/60177/Sharkoon+Skiller+Gaming+Keyboard.article

I'm pretty sure that has English QWERTY as the keyboard layout?
Also I prefer this case:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?adp=0&aid=73553&agid=631&apop
It's 20 euro cheaper, has anti vibration, 6.fans and some other cool features...plus it looks nicer and has meshed sides for airflow? Or could the other case be better and why?

BloodBath

I wouldn't take the picture as to what layout it is. You could e-mail them to make sure.

The cooltek case is much better quality but go for whatever you prefer. The looks are subjective anyway.

MisterMioster

What makes it better?

MisterMioster

Maybe your choice for the case is better as it hasn't many places where dust can get in? But will it stay cool enough with only

MisterMioster

with only 3 fans*

BloodBath

Sound dampened, better build quality, better fans, rubber grommets in the cable management holes, native 2.5" bays, black case cables, dust filters.

3 fans is more than you get with most cases. Additional case fans are cheap anyway.

MisterMioster

Alright, it also has dust filters and some day ill get liquid cooling as an upgrade...
Will that keyboard I linked a few comments up have an English layout? On the picture it had the English qwerty layout.

Sorry for so many questions,I'm just trying to get a perfect gaming pc for my budget....if I can i want to lower the price to 1000-1100 without getting a cheaper GPU or CPU or RAM etc

Will that case have good default sound quality or is that speaker set necessary?
Will I lose out on a lot without the SSD? I know SSDs are quicker than HDDs for loading pictures and other files but is it really going to boost my gaming?

MisterMioster

Nvm, I emailed about the keyboard and all my questions except for the one about SSDs have been answered;
Will I lose out on much if I don't get the SSD? I know they're faster but is it really worth the extra 80-90 euro?

Gumbi

MisterMioster wrote: »

Nvm, I emailed about the keyboard and all my questions except for the one about SSDs have been answered;
Will I lose out on much if I don't get the SSD? I know they're faster but is it really worth the extra 80-90 euro?

It makes general computing usage so much more convenient. Programmes installed in 10 seconds instead of a minute. Games loaded much faster. Booting the computer in 15 seconds.

Once you get one you'll never go back But if you'd like to save money, it's fine to leave it out, but I would definitely get one in due time.

MisterMioster

Thanks, would there be any other way of lowering the price without lowering the gaming performance?
If I could get 1100 I'd be very happy, if I can't lower the price without lowering game performance, it stays at 1180.


Would this wifi card work well on mulitiplayer, ArmA and BF multiplayer, with a decent internet provider?
And will this combo allow me to play ultra settings, 1920x1080p with a very good FPS? (for me decent = 20-35, very good = 40+ average.)

BloodBath

The ssd will only improve loading times. You could drop it for now if you wanted to save some money and get it later.

What do you mean the case has speakers already?

Serephucus

If you want a decent gaming experience, don't use WiFi, use an ethernet cable.

There is no audio output of any kind without the speakers. You could plug headphones in or something, but without speakers, nothing's going to be making any noise (except the fans).

As for BF3, I can't find an extra review, but at a guesstimate, I'd say you'll spend the majority of time above 30FPS at Ultra settings.

MisterMioster

Thanks Ser' and Blood, turns out the Sapphire HD 7870 XT 2GB w/Boost, i5 3570K quad core 3.4GHZ and 8GB RAM gets an average of 60FPS, max of 85/115 and minimum of 50/55 FPS in Battlefield 3's campaign...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn9W8x06O8A
(Plus this video's user's processor is not as good as the i5 3570k)

And in arma 3 alpha it gets 40FPS in an intense firefight and 75 when roaming according to the recent comments on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5g-n8pwcKg
Plus, it should get more FPS in the official version once it's out too.

Thanks so much for this build Blood....for 1180 I feel like I'm getting something like my friend's monster of a pc (worth 1600)
He says he gets an average of 55FPS in an Arma 3 firefight, and I'm going to be probably getting 40~ for 720 less....
And I just thought the case might have built in steroes, because my laptop's case does? Idk, doesn't matter much anyway, I'll just get the SSD and Stereo, they're worth the extra price.

But is this really the best I can get for 1180~? And my room is too far away from the internet box for an ethernet cable...I can't hook up the internet in my room because there isn't any phone cable sockets in my room.

MisterMioster

Like what I mean is, a computer like the one you send the parts to me Blood would cost like 1500 at least in stores like pc world, currys etc here in ireland...yet I'm getting it for 1180. Any other cheaper parts with the same quality?

Serephucus

In a word, no.

BloodBath

Not really. Most of the parts I picked are top quality budget options. If there were cheaper parts with the same quality I'd be recommending them

If you really want to save some money now you could delay the ssd purchase. It won't affect the performance of your games anyway.

If you didn't want to overclock then you could change the cpu + board to the non overclockable versions and drop the cpu cooler saving €80. You could save another €15 getting the club3d version of the same 7870xt.

That would bring it to under 1k for pretty much the same performance.

MisterMioster

If I were to over clock would it boost my FPS by much? Sometimes I've seen OCing only adding 5FPS?

Gumbi

MisterMioster wrote: »

If I were to over clock would it boost my FPS by much? Sometimes I've seen OCing only adding 5FPS?

It depends on the game, but general speaking, you'll likely have a gain of more than 20% per game with that card if you overclock it.

BloodBath

Some games are more cpu dependant than others. RTS games are usually pretty cpu dependant. You might get benchmarks showing large gains in those but it would be smaller in fps games.

You're always going trade off some performance for price. The only other way of getting the price down would be to cut the case, mouse, speakers ect down to super budget options but I wouldn't.

MisterMioster

Alright, sorry for so many questions I just want to feel 100% happy if I spend 1.2k (I'm going to boost the 450W to 500W (+4) and get a keyboard(+15-20) whichll add another 20~)

Yeah ArmA 2 is super CPU intensive so the i5 3570k overclocked is a god for Arma 2...ArmA 3 is CPU intensive but not half as intensive...
Will that cooler keep the i5 3570k cool while OCed or will I need something else?

BloodBath

Yes it's hand's down the best budget cooler. (sub €30)

I've overclocked two 3570k's to 4.5ghz+ with them and they max at around 65c.

MisterMioster

Wow 4.5 GHZ compared to a 3.4GHZ when not OCed? That is way more than what I thought I'd get...

Also, is there any thing I should worry about when making the pc? My desk will be cleared from all things besides the pieces, my desk is made of wood and is on a wooden floor. There is a carpet nearby but about a metre from the desk, so will static be a problem? And will I have to always be careful with static when playing my pc or will the case keep it safe? I heard taking off socks and standing on a wooden floor when building will remove changed of frying your pc parts ? But should I get one of those ground charge wrist bands?

It's just I've heard stories of pcs worth 2k or so being fried by static when being built..

MisterMioster

chances not changed*

BloodBath

Just ground yourself on something metallic that's grounded like a radiator before touching the parts and you will be fine.

Gumbi

BloodBath wrote: »

Yes it's hand's down the best budget cooler. (sub €30)

I've overclocked two 3570k's to 4.5ghz+ with them and they max at around 65c.

Doing what? Small FFTs gets about that (a tad more maybe) at 4.6ghz. IntelBurnTest gets me to 85/86, though.

BloodBath

Large FFT's. Smalls don't get high at all. I have good airflow though. 2x200mm intakes, 1 x 200mm and 140mm exhaust.

MisterMioster

What do you reckon I'd get temperature wise with that case+i5 OCed to 4.5GHZ +cooler you picked for me blood ?

BloodBath

It's hard to say. The silicon lottery will dictate how far you can go at what voltages.

Those chips seem to be pretty consistent though.

I'd say you could do 4.4 - 4.6 depending on how good the chip is.

-Edit-

Intel burn is around 80-85c also. You will rarely ever see these temps in normal use and only for short periods if you do. It's still under the throttling temp. I haven't had a single crash running @ 4.5ghz.

Gumbi

BloodBath wrote: »

It's hard to say. The silicon lottery will dictate how far you can go at what voltages.

Those chips seem to be pretty consistent though.

I'd say you could do 4.4 - 4.6 depending on how good the chip is.

-Edit-

Intel burn is around 80-85c also. You will rarely ever see these temps in normal use and only for short periods if you do. It's still under the throttling temp. I haven't had a single crash running @ 4.5ghz.

It makes me think that 4.7 is possible on my chip, even 4.8, if I can stomach 100 degrees in IBT. I mean it stays 772-74 MAX in Prime large FFTs.

Serephucus

I think I'll poke that friend of mine who may/may not take my parts come Haswell, and see if he minds getting a de-lidded chip... At this point I'm curious to see how far I can take it. 4.7 and I was getting temps of around 80° from Prime.

Gumbi

Serephucus wrote: »

I think I'll poke that friend of mine who may/may not take my parts come Haswell, and see if he minds getting a de-lidded chip... At this point I'm curious to see how far I can take it. 4.7 and I was getting temps of around 80° from Prime.

I was thinking of buying a nice cooler IF I end up purchasing Haswell. I might even get it now and see how far I can take this chip. I am comfortably 4.6 at the moment, the fan doesn't ramp up when gaming much at all (no more than ambient fan temps really). Never go over 60 degrees while gaming.

What cooler you have to get 4.7ghz with 80 degrees in Prime? At what voltage too?

Serephucus

Water loop, with a bunch of radiator, and probably a lot of air bubbles too. Needed voltage of around 1.35 for 4.7, IIRC.

Gumbi

Serephucus wrote: »

Water loop, with a bunch of radiator, and probably a lot of air bubbles too. Needed voltage of around 1.35 for 4.7, IIRC.

Looks near enough to my chip. I need 1.275v for 4.6 (I got a new board with manual voltage controls ). Don't think my cooler could handle 1.35v though.

Serephucus

I'm game-stable at around those settings, but I need closer to 1.3 to get everything IBT/Prime stable.

Gumbi

Serephucus wrote: »

I'm game-stable at around those settings, but I need closer to 1.3 to get everything IBT/Prime stable.

That's less than the previous one you quoted. Do you mean 1.4?

Serephucus

No... I need around 1.3 for 4.6, and 1.35 for 4.7.

Gumbi

Serephucus wrote: »

No... I need around 1.3 for 4.6, and 1.35 for 4.7.

Sorry, misunderstood.

Serephucus

No worries.

MisterMioster

Alright I guess I'll just find out about overclocking at another time

MisterMioster

Will I need more than 500W to overclock my CPU to 4.5GHZ, will it be ok temperature wise and what's the silicon lottery ? Will I have to do anything to my GPU if I overclock my CPU?

BloodBath

The 450w I linked has enough power for overclocking both the cpu and gpu. The 3570k at stock only uses around 77w. Overclocked maybe 100-120w

The card would use around 200w overclocked.

About 50w max for the rest of the system.

I'd say full load around 300w-350w for normal gaming use. It might peak nearer to 400w rarely.

You could go to the 500w version of the same psu if you wanted a bit more headroom. It's only about €4 more.

The silicon lottery is basically how good of a processor did you get. All processors will have minute differences in their quality that will effect how high they can be clocked at what voltages. Some people need higher voltages to get the same clocks as others.

You don't have to do anything to your gpu but it can also be overclocked. Gpu overclocking is actually easier than cpu overclocking.

tuxy

MisterMioster wrote: »

Will I need more than 500W to overclock my CPU to 4.5GHZ, will it be ok temperature wise and what's the silicon lottery ? Will I have to do anything to my GPU if I overclock my CPU?

No 500 watt is perfect for an overclocked CPU and a single GPU
4.5 is the most likley max overclock for you.
Just about every CPU will fit into the 4.2 - 4.8 GHZ range.
A bit of luck is involved, on air cooling you would be unlucky to only reach 4.2 but very lucky to reach 4.8 so something in between is the most common result
No you can leave the GPU as is but can also overclock the GPU if you want even more performance in games but it's optional.

MisterMioster

You can overclock the GPU too? o.O
And thanks but for the info but is there any tutorials on how to overclock the GPU or CPU? I should have the pc in my Wednesday if it ships on Monday.

BloodBath

Yeah, you can get very good performance upgrades depending on your card. 30%+ is not unusual.

Linus is your man if you want to learn how to do anything pc hardware related.

Have you ordered yet?

MisterMioster

Not yet will be tomorrow or Monday. It'll take some time to find out the best way and specs to overclock it at but I suppose ill get it done.

MisterMioster

I don't know if ill do it because even after watching the videos I fear I will mess it up because I don't have a clue what voltage or multiplier settings I will use but I really want that +30% boost for gaming.. Im a newbie in terms of overclocking so bear with me..

Does OCing decrease CPU and GPU life? What did you guys do when OCing and did you get a guide?

Gumbi

MisterMioster wrote: »

I don't know if ill do it because even after watching the videos I fear I will mess it up because I don't have a clue what voltage or multiplier settings I will use but I really want that +30% boost for gaming.. Im a newbie in terms of overclocking so bear with me..

Does OCing decrease CPU and GPU life? What did you guys do when OCing and did you get a guide?

To be fair, I think a 30% boost is pushing it. 20% plus is a fairer estimate, unless you have a good idea of what you're doing.

I was clueless when it came to overclocking a few months ago, but I just read a crap-load of articles online, asked questions here, and now I have a reasonbale grasp of how it works, how to do it, etc. It seems easy now that I understand it, but I appreciate it is difficult to comprehend all the information when learning about it for the first time.

It's perfectly safe if you know what you're doing. Yes, increasing the voltages degrades your chip more than it normally would. But computer chipss, especially cpus are manufactured with very generous tolerances.

We're talking a difference of 6 years vs 10 years or something. Not even that. Unless you go crazy with changing the voltage you'll be fine.

marco_polo

Even 10 years is probably an extremely conservative estimate of average CPU lifespan. There is not much data because people simply don't keep them long enough, but if kept running in near optimal conditions, i'd say its at least double if not treble that time.

I don't think I have ever come across a CPU that simply died of old age, if they do fail they tend to get fried by another component failures or user error.

Overclocking definately shortens the expected life of a CPU, but done carefully, even this shortened one would still be far in excess of its useful lifespan.

MisterMioster

Well it's 133% of the normal clock rate (3.4GHZ--->4.5GHZ) so I just assumed 30% of performance I guess. I just need some basic instructions on how to overclock an i5 and recommendations on what voltage to use etc..

Aren't CPUs with a 'K' at the end such as the i5 3570K meant to be overclocked so they would degrade quicker ?