I have started watching Raw from 1997

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

as the title says, I started watching Raw from Jan 1997, I'm currently up to march, just 1 more raw until wrestlemania 13. I watched the first "RAW is WAR" last night, and Shawn "lost his smile" a few episodes before that.
I started watching them again for nostalgic reasons, I was only 10 in 1997 but its amazing how much I actually remember. Its so different to the current product! The matches were a lot longer, most singles matches were around 10-15 mins long, and it really was a wrestling show, not an entertainment show like it is now.

Watched the first European title match between Owen and the British Bulldog last night. One of the best matches of 1997, so many moves used in that match that you done see in the WWE currently.

jaykhunter

If you're marathoning the shows, consider writing a few lines of any highlights u come across or important moments

A Primal Nut

Yeah I've been doing something similar. Started from the day after Summerslam 97 and have got as far as June 99 now. So much fun to watch.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Im watching around 2 raws a night, I more a less leave it on in the background. Some of the promos Steve Austin cut as a heal are so good. Im just at the very start of the attitude era now, Vince mentioned how the wrestlers have "attitude" during commentary at a raw in jan '97. Mant highlights ahead so!

On another note, its easy to see how Nitro used to beat raw in the ratings in 1997. The lighting, sound and overall set on Nitro was a lot better than Raw.

seandotcomm

I did the same myself about a year and a half ago. I only started watching around the Rock Bottom PPV in 98 when I was a kid so it's great so go back further. Some great stuff with Pillman, Golddust, The Nation etc. Hoping to start watching from 98 onward pretty soon

rossie1977

the format of raw changed in late 1997 and its still basically the same format we have today, raw in early 1997 was more akin to what sd is like today (more in-ring action and less angles)

krudler

Any excuse to post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xmuwYeWP-U

jaykhunter

Christ, this is NOT a file sharing forum. Discussion only please.

krudler

Does anyone know what episode it was when it went from the old Raw format (red,white,blue ropes and small entrance) to the titantron Raw is War? It was early 97 if I remember right but not fully sure.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

krudler wrote: »

Does anyone know what episode it was when it went from the old Raw format (red,white,blue ropes and small entrance) to the titantron Raw is War? It was early 97 if I remember right but not fully sure.

that is the last episode I watched. It was the first raw in march of 1997, the week after the European championship was introduced. I think they still ised the red white and blue ropes for a while after that though.

Maverick91

I'm doing something similar, just started watching the Old Raw episodes starting from 1998. I only started watching wrestling in 2000 so it's interesting to see what it was like back then.
Just finished watching No Way Out 1998. Was a decent PPV, solid but nothing amazing apart from the main event which was one of the most hardcore matches I've ever seen in terms of weapon usage

krudler

I much preferred the look of the product back in the late 90's, the stage, the ring area with the old barriers, fans were closer to the ring, the tone of the show was more chaotic etc. Summerslam 98 was one of my favourite pvs from then.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Started watching Raw 97 there a while back too.

Sid's promos were immense in the early months of the year. Hero.

gimmick

Folks, please stop asking where he is getting these. I am sure you will figure it out if you think about it.

warnings will be handed out if it continues.

krudler

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Started watching Raw 97 there a while back too.

Sid's promos were immense in the early months of the year. Hero.

loved his match with Shawn at the 96 Survivor Series, the MSG crowd were having none of HBK, booing him all the time.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

krudler wrote: »

loved his match with Shawn at the 96 Survivor Series, the MSG crowd were having none of HBK, booing him all the time.

Steve Austin's promos were class, I used to hate him back then! I was so pissed off when he won the Rumble.

krudler

Dallas Faithful Region wrote: »

Steve Austin's promos were class, I used to hate him back then! I was so pissed off when he won the Rumble.

Which one did he cheat to win? the 97 one? he got eliminated but came back in, the 98 one was good too when he was kicking the sh1te out of everyone else in the rumble in the weeks leading up to it.

gnfnrhead

krudler wrote: »

Which one did he cheat to win? the 97 one? he got eliminated but came back in, the 98 one was good too when he was kicking the sh1te out of everyone else in the rumble in the weeks leading up to it.

97. He had the I Quit match with Bret at Wrestlemania 13, whereas the next year he faced Michaels for the title. Runner Up in 1999 with Vince winning but not going to Wrestlemania. 2000 was... joking :P

Dont know how I'm able to remember that so easily

A Primal Nut

Always found it odd that Austin won the Rumble but wasn't in the WrestleMania main event, Sid-Taker doesn't seem that big but maybe Sid was a huge star at the time? I know Michaels lost his smile, etc but I wonder was the original plan to do Austin-Michaels that year? Even Bret-Austin would have been a huge main event to have.

Also strange to think it was another year before Austin finally won the title.

Bret Vs HBK was planned for WM 13 but HBK got "injured".

I wonder what the plan was for Austin if HBK hadn't of pulled out?

krudler

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Always found it odd that Austin won the Rumble but wasn't in the WrestleMania main event, Sid-Taker doesn't seem that big but maybe Sid was a huge star at the time? I know Michaels lost his smile, etc but I wonder was the original plan to do Austin-Michaels that year? Even Bret-Austin would have been a huge main event to have.

Also strange to think it was another year before Austin finally won the title.

Bret won the title at the In Your House before Mania, then dropped the title to Sid on Raw the next night, Taker was #1 contender and Bret feuded with Austin as he interfered costing him the title, they'd been feuding on and off for months at that point though. I guess they didnt see Austin as a top star just yet at that point, he was well over though

gnfnrhead

The I Quit match made Austin. Without that I dont think he'd have went on to be so big so quick.

briany

krudler wrote: »

I much preferred the look of the product back in the late 90's, the stage, the ring area with the old barriers, fans were closer to the ring, the tone of the show was more chaotic etc. Summerslam 98 was one of my favourite pvs from then.

You mean the metal ones with the bars? I always thought that the wrestlers got sick of fans reaching through those and patting the wrestlers on the back after a bump to the outside. The wrestler would be lying there all banged up and you'd see hands coming through to touch. I have to think some of those hands took untoward liberties at some stage.

The tone of the show was more passionate at that time. Simple as. It was a leaner organisation, they still had rounded, experienced talents who were a product of territories and everyone on screen looked like they cared and they had better 'cause it was their promotion's future on the line. They also had ECW to take their cue from. We'll never see that confluence of circumstances again as wrestling fans, so we might as well fire up the time machine.

Loughc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bret Vs HBK was planned for WM 13 but HBK got "injured".

I wonder what the plan was for Austin if HBK hadn't of pulled out?

I believe the original plans for WM13 were bret vs hbk,
Austin vs Sid,
Taker vs vader

It was prob a good thing hbk was "injured" so.

krudler

briany wrote: »

You mean the metal ones with the bars? I always thought that the wrestlers got sick of fans reaching through those and patting the wrestlers on the back after a bump to the outside. The wrestler would be lying there all banged up and you'd see hands coming through to touch. I have to think some of those hands took untoward liberties at some stage.

The tone of the show was more passionate at that time. Simple as. It was a leaner organisation, they still had rounded, experienced talents who were a product of territories and everyone on screen looked like they cared and they had better 'cause it was their promotion's future on the line. They also had ECW to take their cue from. We'll never see that confluence of circumstances again as wrestling fans, so we might as well fire up the time machine.

Indeed, the late 90's was a great time to be a wrestling fan, especially 96-98 when the MNW were in full swing, once WCW started getting crap in 99 onwards it was all downhill. 2000 was a good year in WWF as well from what I can remember, the roster was jam packed with talent. It's a shame to think the current generation won't experience a product as good as that again, crowds are dead these days for the most part, look back at attitude era ones, the amount of signs (and funny ones at that) was crazy, the crowd popped multiple times thoughout shows.

Loughc

krudler wrote: »

Indeed, the late 90's was a great time to be a wrestling fan, especially 96-98 when the MNW were in full swing, once WCW started getting crap in 99 onwards it was all downhill. 2000 was a good year in WWF as well from what I can remember, the roster was jam packed with talent. It's a shame to think the current generation won't experience a product as good as that again, crowds are dead these days for the most part, look back at attitude era ones, the amount of signs (and funny ones at that) was crazy, the crowd popped multiple times thoughout shows.

Differnet crowd tho, back in the late 90's Raw was full of drunk college kids, nowadays the crowd is mostly families and hundreds of little jimmys, it'll never be a good as it was.

Then again back in 1995 the WWF was in a awful state and it turned around (mostly because of the competition from wCw)

A Primal Nut

krudler wrote: »

Bret won the title at the In Your House before Mania, then dropped the title to Sid on Raw the next night, Taker was #1 contender and Bret feuded with Austin as he interfered costing him the title, they'd been feuding on and off for months at that point though. I guess they didnt see Austin as a top star just yet at that point, he was well over though

True but if he won the Rumble that year they must have seen something in him? How did they explain onscreen that the Rumble winner didn't challenge the champion at WrestleMania? Or did they just ignore it?

Omackeral

A Primal Nut wrote: »

True but if he won the Rumble that year they must have seen something in him? How did they explain onscreen that the Rumble winner didn't challenge the champion at WrestleMania? Or did they just ignore it?

He won through shenanigans so they held a Fatal Four Way at the IYH featuring the last four combatants from the Rumble. (Although technically 'Diesel' aka Glen Jacobs was in the last four but wasn't included). Then Hart dropped the strap on Raw the night after winning at In Your House, as previously stated.

krudler

Loughc wrote: »

Differnet crowd tho, back in the late 90's Raw was full of drunk college kids, nowadays the crowd is mostly families and hundreds of little jimmys, it'll never be a good as it was.

Then again back in 1995 the WWF was in a awful state and it turned around (mostly because of the competition from wCw)

I think it was around 93-96 ish I stopped watching regularly, would catch it every few weeks and it seemed absolute arse

the groutch

Omackeral wrote: »

(Although technically 'Diesel' aka Glen Jacobs was in the last four but wasn't included).

Omackeral

Yep, 'Diesel'. As in the fake one. Hence the inverted commas.

briany

Loughc wrote: »

Differnet crowd tho, back in the late 90's Raw was full of drunk college kids, nowadays the crowd is mostly families and hundreds of little jimmys, it'll never be a good as it was.

Then again back in 1995 the WWF was in a awful state and it turned around (mostly because of the competition from wCw)

Crowds were hot back in the 80s too and their makeup was much the same as it is right now. There's more to it than the crowd makeup. There's a certain jadedness amongst your typical crowd now and that's for a number of reasons, none of which can exactly be rolled back on a whim. That's the way it is and it was why it was so refreshing on Raw a couple weeks back to see that 'smart' crowd. Reminds us how much better a truly involved crowd makes a show.

Loughc

briany wrote: »

That's the way it is and it was why it was so refreshing on Raw a couple weeks back to see that 'smart' crowd. Reminds us how much better a truly involved crowd makes a show.

But that crowd was out for themselves, they showed very little respect for the product. They essentially p!ss€d all over the Sheamus/Orton match. That crowd was too smart for its own good even if it was entertaining to watch there needs to be a happy medium between the two.

briany

Loughc wrote: »

But that crowd was out for themselves, they showed very little respect for the product. They essentially p!ss€d all over the Sheamus/Orton match. That crowd was too smart for its own good even if it was entertaining to watch there needs to be a happy medium between the two.

Crowds can do that by not getting very involved in good matches or shouting 'what', annoyingly, over decent promos when they don't even know where that came from. It can't say it wasn't entertaining to see the whole show brought out of it's comfort zone by what that crowd brought.

krudler

Loughc wrote: »

But that crowd was out for themselves, they showed very little respect for the product. They essentially p!ss€d all over the Sheamus/Orton match. That crowd was too smart for its own good even if it was entertaining to watch there needs to be a happy medium between the two.

you could see Sheamus trying not to laugh a few times, he probably found it as entertaining as the announcers did, JBL was having a hoot. "respecting the product"? Fans can cheer what they want during a match, it was really refreshing to see reactions like that and not just kids cheering who the WWE tells them to. If that match was in front of any regular raw crowd you'd probably hear "boring" chants or tumbleweed, that Raw? mexican waves and non stop chanting, it was a great laugh. That crowd made that Raw, the fact we're talking about it weeks later is testament to that.

Loughc

krudler wrote: »

you could see Sheamus trying not to laugh a few times, he probably found it as entertaining as the announcers did, JBL was having a hoot. "respecting the product"? Fans can cheer what they want during a match, it was really refreshing to see reactions like that and not just kids cheering who the WWE tells them to. If that match was in front of any regular raw crowd you'd probably hear "boring" chants or tumbleweed, that Raw? mexican waves and non stop chanting, it was a great laugh.

I don't disagree for a second, it was a great laugh. But imagine if the crowd was like that every week, week in week out, story delevopment would go out the window. And it could result in getting top superstars getting buried and lost in the shuffle.

krudler

Loughc wrote: »

I don't disagree for a second, it was a great laugh. But imagine if the crowd was like that every week, week in week out, story delevopment would go out the window. And it could result in getting top superstars getting buried and lost in the shuffle.

Oh yeah if it was a constant thing it'd get old, animated crowds are great though, going back to the Attitude Era crowds, obviously not every one of them was white hot but they were definitely far louder and more animated than the Cena kid filled crowds of the last few years. I love when Raws and ppvs are in "smart" cities, Chicago, New York, NJ, Philly, etc. seems the further south you are the quieter the crowds are, wonder why that is? Wrestling is a big a part of down South culture as the Northern states.

Reganio 2

I am watching Raw 1998 and I remember why I hate Austin, he is destroying the whole roster without even being in a match its much worse than Cena or HHH burying everyone. Its just desperate.

jaykhunter

I'd love it if we had a passionate, veteran crowd every week. WWE would have to try much harder and we'd get better, more compelling storylines and serious talent focus. WWE get away with so much and fans latch onto what good we do get. WWE need someone to push them out of complacency, tell them that (for example) what they're doing with Sheamus and Randy Orton isn't good enough, you can't reserve big stars just for Mania, and trot out Kofi vs Miz every week for a year. They need to be told "OK is not good enough"...they've no competition to push them, so the crowd should.

Loughc

jaykhunter wrote: »

They need to be told "OK is not good enough"...they've no competition to push them, so the crowd should.

Will Vince listen to the crowd over his own ego tho, you have to remember even if they boo or heckle the product, they've still paid to go see the WWE, Vince is still making money off the crowd.

Will their silly chants change anything other than destroying any chance Fandango had by hotshooting him to WWE's attention and then they go on and destroy the gimmick.

DM_7

If they got that type of crowd every week things would be differant. But they are not going to turn away from aiming the show at the audience that normally turns up or watches to attract another audience.

briany

jaykhunter wrote: »

I'd love it if we had a passionate, veteran crowd every week. WWE would have to try much harder and we'd get better, more compelling storylines and serious talent focus. WWE get away with so much and fans latch onto what good we do get. WWE need someone to push them out of complacency, tell them that (for example) what they're doing with Sheamus and Randy Orton isn't good enough, you can't reserve big stars just for Mania, and trot out Kofi vs Miz every week for a year. They need to be told "OK is not good enough"...they've no competition to push them, so the crowd should.

I would love to see crowds do that. That would be like old ECW where performers sometimes got over simply because of their tenaciousness and credibility as an actual worker, not because of a gimmick, a body, a catchphrase or a sexy valet. No way should performers simply expect respect because of the way they're presented, as superstars, no way. That kind of thinking is what comes about when you try to over homogenize and inflate the importance what is essentially still a carnival attraction at it's core. Nothing wrong with it being knocked down a peg or two.

jaykhunter

These are all good points. I know that ECW went bankrupt but the ideas, freshness and way of involving and igniting the crowd was excellent and can be used be WWE. But yeah, there has to be a creamy middle in there between what the crowd want and what the company wants.

I know WWE make bank, and they aim their product towards kids, but their audience doesn't increase i.e. kids get turned off & replaced every 2-3 years. So it's not like a learning program like Barney, it's an entertainment show whose average fan is over 30. But basically to their target demo, it's a fad or a phase; they're not creating any lifelong fans. Maybe if they had a product that people could get really interested/emotional about they'd stick around longer.

krudler

jaykhunter wrote: »

These are all good points. I know that ECW went bankrupt but the ideas, freshness and way of involving and igniting the crowd was excellent and can be used be WWE. But yeah, there has to be a creamy middle in there between what the crowd want and what the company wants.

I know WWE make bank, and they aim their product towards kids, but their audience doesn't increase i.e. kids get turned off & replaced every 2-3 years. So it's not like a learning program like Barney, it's an entertainment show whose average fan is over 30. But basically to their target demo, it's a fad or a phase; they're not creating any lifelong fans. Maybe if they had a product that people could get really interested/emotional about they'd stick around longer.

That a million times, I'm an 80's kid, so I started watching in the Hogan era, and it was geared towards kids then too, as I got to 12+ and it hit the post-Hogan pre-Attitude era I lost interest. Once I was 17-18 I got into it again because wrestling was cool again, they appealed to the young male audience and got it spot on, now there are kids watching who weren't even born when Cena debuted!

krudler

went looking for an episode of Raw, look at the difference between the crowd in the opening of this, and any normal episode these days:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcoOcry38ZY

look at the amount of signs!

jaykhunter

Don't watch, it'll make you happy, then make you sad.

seandotcomm

krudler wrote: »

RAW 2000 vid

Signs were the memes of yore

krudler

jaykhunter wrote: »

Don't watch, it'll make you happy, then make you sad.

I watched a chunk of it, I know people say rose tinted glasses and all that and its not like everything pre-pg era was gold but damn it was more entertaining back then. watch the last 15 mins of that episode, crowd is going bananas for most of it. You'd forget how over Kane was back then.

hufpc8w3adnk65

krudler wrote: »

RAW 2000 vid

Thats EPIC!The signs are everywhere!Hell even the opening theme has more energy then todays!

Also what happened too haven pyro open the show?This week we got ADR new remixed theme too open!No wonder no one was marking out!

2ndcoming

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I am watching Raw 1998 and I remember why I hate Austin, he is destroying the whole roster without even being in a match its much worse than Cena or HHH burying everyone. Its just desperate.

It's called opening a can of whup ass and it was exactly what 14/15 year old me was waiting to see every week!

cian68

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I am watching Raw 1998 and I remember why I hate Austin, he is destroying the whole roster without even being in a match its much worse than Cena or HHH burying everyone. Its just desperate.

Only really comparable to Cena in 2004/2005 or HHH in maybe 2000. Austin won his first world title in 98 so this was them making a star rather than keeping one on top.