keep it legal, keep it safe?

clairefontaine

I'm not sure of the Gosnell case is getting much attention in Ireland,so far I haven't come across it.

I'm posting this article here from the Atlantic Monthly, a reputable periodical which no one can here can accuse of being a right wing propegandist Christian blah blah blah, about an abortionist on trial in the US.

This is by far one of the most disgusting and disturbing things I have ever come across, and there are lessons to be learned about regulation and the health authorities before you consider the legalising of abortion and what needs to be in place if and when it is legalised.

Warning:graphic images and descriptions.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/why-dr-kermit-gosnells-trial-should-be-a-front-page-story/274944/

PlainP

clairefontaine wrote: »

I'm not sure of the Gosnell case is getting much attention in Ireland,so far I haven't come across it.

I'm posting this article here from the Atlantic Monthly, a reputable periodical which no one can here can accuse of being a right wing propegandist Christian blah blah blah, about an abortionist on trial in the US.

This is by far one of the most disgusting and disturbing things I have ever come across, and there are lessons to be learned about regulation and the health authorities before you consider the legalising of abortion and what needs to be in place if and when it is legalised.

Warning:graphic images and descriptions.

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/04/the-anti-abortion-movements-intelligence-failure/275011/

Is this it?
I'm on my phone so don't know if the link will work.

Lyaiera

clairefontaine wrote: »

I'm posting this article here from the Atlantic Monthly, a reputable periodical which no one can here can accuse of being a right wing propegandist Christian blah blah blah, about an abortionist on trial in the US.

I don't know anything about the Atlantic Monthly or it's political allegiance but it seems to be pretty damning of the right wing anti-abortion groups in that article. It talks about how this place was often used seeing as it was only protested once a month. It talks of women feeling ashamed having to get an abortion because of protesters. It talks of the lack of services meaning later and later abortions are being sought and it talks of shutting down abortion providers for which there is no evidence of wrong doing.

Rogue nutter doctors will always happen, but thankfully they are rogue (look at Shipman in the UK.) The anti-abortion people protesting clinics and trying to shame women are evil.

clairefontaine

Oops. Silly me. I forgot to include the link.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/why-dr-kermit-gosnells-trial-should-be-a-front-page-story/274944/

rainbow kirby

Cases like this actually do a very good job of demonstrating why abortion services should be safe, legal and regulated - performed in hospitals as a normal part of OB/Gyn care where needed.

If we didn't have the UK on our doorstep, it's quite likely that we would have ended up with a similar backstreet "House of Horrors" clinic here - there are always going to be women who are desperate enough to undergo very risky procedures and attend unsafe clinics when they do not have the option of having abortions performed in a safe manner.

The anti-choice protesters should be ashamed of themselves too - their behaviour doesn't "save the babies", but drives women into riskier situations.

Cosmicfox

Things like this happened in Ireland too, for example



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamie_Cadden

Morag

Semika Shaw and Karnamaya Mongar are two women we know died due to the 'care' they got at the Gosnell clinic.

Semika Shaw died in 2000 and her family took a court case which was settled out of court in 2002 so it was known then that all was not as it should have been in the clinic.
Karnamaya Mongar died November 2010 and even that didn't cause an investigation, it took a case tracking down why there were so many prescription drugs on the street which lead back to the clinic, which then had staff blow the whistle on the business.
Says a lot about the priority of those women's lives but well part of the reason they were exploitable is they were migrants or Hispanic or African American and all of them poor.

The court case took a while to happen and a judge had put a gag order on the case before it came to session.

But there has been a fair amount of reporting on this despite what some may say
http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/04/16/a-roundup-of-reporting-on-the-kermit-gosnell-case/

Yes abortion needs to be Free, Safe and Legal.
http://articles.philly.com/2013-03-26/news/38013345_1_abortion-providers-abortion-care-low-income-pennsylvania-women

One former patient at the clinic told a state Senate committee that women in her neighborhood knew Gosnell offered the cheapest abortions available. Another Gosnell patient told the Associated Press that she had intended to go to a Planned Parenthood clinic but was scared away by antiabortion protesters. An acquaintance suggested Gosnell's clinic, where protesters - ironically - were not an issue.

The evidence suggests a number of factors led women to Gosnell: Medicaid's refusal to cover most abortions; the scarcity of providers in Pennsylvania; fear of violent protesters; and a right-wing culture that has stigmatized abortion.

It's important that the women of Pennsylvania know that abortion is a legal, safe medical procedure. As set forth in the Gosnell indictment, legitimate providers like Planned Parenthood and members of the National Abortion Federation follow standard medical procedures and the law.

It also needs to be mainstream, rather then in separate clinics which will attract protestors and cause more stigma.

87% of abortions in the UK are medical that is the abortion pill is prescribed and when we eventually get legal abortion I think that this will also be the case here, the majority will be carried out with the abortion pill.

As for surgical abortions esp in the case of Fatal fetal abnormalities which tend to be after the scans at 20 to 24 weeks then there should be a until set up for such cases as it is the shamrock suit in Liverpool were most Irish couples are referred on to which only deals with Irish women has several women over every week.

Jerrica

clairefontaine wrote: »

I'm posting this article here from the Atlantic Monthly, a reputable periodical which no one can here can accuse of being a right wing propegandist Christian blah blah blah, about an abortionist on trial in the US.

Yesterday I saw this table on Broadsheet but I wasn't sure if it was serious or not, that question has now been somewhat answered for me.

Das Kitty

Jerrica wrote: »

Yesterday I saw this table on Broadsheet but I wasn't sure if it was serious or not, that question has now been somewhat answered for me.

In fairness, how else would you describe an unlicenced med school grad who performs illegal late term abortions?

spurious

Cosmicfox wrote: »

Things like this happened in Ireland too, for example



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamie_Cadden

We needn't cod ourselves that things are not still going on here.
Desperate people will go to desperate lengths.

LittleBook

spurious wrote: »

We needn't cod ourselves that things are not still going on here. Desperate people will go to desperate lengths.

Indeed I'd be very surprised if they weren't. Between the flights, accommodation (if necessary) and the procedure, travelling to the UK for an abortion can cost hundreds of euros ... I can't imagine that every woman who found herself in a desperate situation could come up with that kind of money on short notice.

Morag

Which is why more and more women are illegally importing the abortion pill.
Thousands of packets are intercepted by customs every year and I would not be surprised if they are not even 10%
of what is coming into the country, esp as it costs between 50 to 80 quid to order it online.

I know of at least 5 women who have done this in the last 2 years, despite the fact they risked
being done for importing a class A drug with out a license and 7 years in prison under the 1861 act.

The_Minister

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Cases like this actually do a very good job of demonstrating why abortion services should be safe, legal and regulated - performed in hospitals as a normal part of OB/Gyn care where needed.

If we didn't have the UK on our doorstep, it's quite likely that we would have ended up with a similar backstreet "House of Horrors" clinic here - there are always going to be women who are desperate enough to undergo very risky procedures and attend unsafe clinics when they do not have the option of having abortions performed in a safe manner.

The anti-choice protesters should be ashamed of themselves too - their behaviour doesn't "save the babies", but drives women into riskier situations.

Seriously?

Some of the babies were crying, breathing and moving when he killed them.
He took them out and cut their spine.

He kept trophies of their little feet in jars in his basement.

No European country allows abortion as late as he performed them - many of these children would have lived perfectly well if simply removed from the womb.


This case says nothing about the abortion situation in general, the pro-life or pro-choice side.
It's a bizarre and disgusting and sordid horrorshow that nobody sane would ever support.



EDIT: I just reread that. I'm not for a moment saying that you support him, I'm just saying that what was done was disgusting, and doesn't advance the case for either side.