Aer Lingus developments

donvito99

Firstly, from the BizPost (there's a paywall I believe)

Aer Lingus Regional flights, operated by Aer Arann, are to move to Terminal 2 at Dublin Airport from May 1.
Until now, some Aer Lingus Regional flights have operated from Terminal 1.

All regional routes will now operate from Terminal 2, including flights to Southend, Edinburgh, Birmingham and Manchester. The move to Terminal 2 will also make life easier for Aer Lingus Regional passengers linking to Aer Lingus’s transatlantic services from Terminal 2.

And, continuing from the VS leasing arrangement

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-to-pursue-wet-leasing-contracts-with-other-carriers-1.1370856

Aer Lingus says it is working on plans to fly short-haul routes for major European airlines keen to exit unprofitable services while retaining feeder traffic to their hubs.
Accords with Virgin Atlantic Airways and Nova Airlines AB of Sweden mark the beginning of the contract-flying strategy, with Aer Lingus pursuing outsourcing work with larger carriers, chief executive Christoph Mueller said.
Expanded US services using Boeing 757s are also under review. Demand for so-called wet-leasing, when both crews and jets are provided, should increase as companies including Air France- KLM Group, Deutsche Lufthansa and Alitalia seek to pare expenses while maintaining access to key markets, Mr Mueller said in an interview.
There may be 500 jets flying unprofitable European routes solely to help fill long-haul planes based at hubs such as London Heathrow and Amsterdam Schiphol, he said.
"This is one of the markets we want to focus on, whether under our own brand, a Virgin Atlantic-type of model or simply as a white-tail," Mr Mueller said, referring to the industry term for an unbranded aircraft.
The wet-lease model could best be developed at Heathrow, which lost a neutral feeder carrier with the takeover last year of BMI by British Airways, he added.
Aer Lingus could turn a profit by building up a sequence of operating slots at airports where most carriers might have only a few each day, improving aircraft utilization, Mr Mueller said.
At Heathrow, the 23 pairs of take-off and landing positions that Aer Lingus uses for its own flights mean it could make better use than other carriers of single slots that might become free, bundling them with the existing holdings.
Capacity restraints at Europe's busiest airport compel some carriers to have jets standing idle for three hours rather than the optimum 25 minutes, according to Mr Mueller.
While short-haul flights away from top hubs are dominated by Ryanair and its low-cost peers, no discount airlines fly to Heathrow. The purchase of BMI by BA parent IAG drove Aer Lingus's first foray into charter flying, when it was selected by Virgin Atlantic to operate four fully crewed Airbus SAS A320 single-aisle planes on domestic UK routes. The service, which replaced Virgin's code-sharing deal with BMI, provides Richard Branson's long-haul specialist with feeder traffic at Heathrow from Manchester and Scotland.
Aer Lingus will release an interim management statement for the three months to the endof March tomorrow.

donkey balls

The ATR moving to T2 will be interesting as the terminal some times suffers from congestion with the likes of the US carriers& ME ones having to wait out on the taxiways for a aircraft to push back off stand.
Just found the link

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/COMMENT%3A+Aer+Lingus+pieces+together+an+independent+future/id/19410615-5218-5177-e373-509b44963326

kona

I reckon they will be bussed to the stands, either that or they will use them when t2 isn't as busy.
An air bridge wouldn't work with an atr anyways.

L1011

kona wrote: »

An air bridge wouldn't work with an atr anyways.

There's no functional reason preventing them - you just need a longer airbridge that comes from further back or the mad ones that can arch over the wing (so yes, you're right in that T2s won't be any use), but its been done where suitably equipped: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/atr72/images/atr72_2.jpg

You can also order them with the front door enlarged for passenger loading, at the expense of cargo space.

tony3953

Are there designated coaching gates under T2?

kona

tony3953 wrote: »

Are there designated coaching gates under T2?

There's unused gates that could do this under the business class lounges. Under the gates in t2 main annex is the pre clearance, so can't be here.

kona

MYOB wrote: »

There's no functional reason preventing them - you just need a longer airbridge that comes from further back or the mad ones that can arch over the wing (so yes, you're right in that T2s won't be any use), but its been done where suitably equipped: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/atr72/images/atr72_2.jpg

You can also order them with the front door enlarged for passenger loading, at the expense of cargo space.

Aer Aranns planes have steps in the rear port side door , they also board here (well they did the last time I flew on them ) so I dunno how the air bridge above would work in aer Aranns case?
As has been said it gets quite congested especially when the wide bodies are around.

donkey balls

Some of the stands are marked out for ATR&b717 at present the RE ATR park around the 200s and 100s with two different busses collecting connecting pax to the USA and domestic pax getting off at Dublin.

Tenger

I think its funny how this outline plan from Mueller on the future of EI so closely resembles the model they used in the late 70's/early 80's.....lots of foreign lease operations. EI at the time used this model to counter the very seasonal Irish market.

donvito99

What about this cargo place?

L1011

Tenger wrote: »

I think its funny how this outline plan from Mueller on the future of EI so closely resembles the model they used in the late 70's/early 80's.....lots of foreign lease operations. EI at the time used this model to counter the very seasonal Irish market.

Now, if he starts buying hotels and announces that the new customer IT system is going to be developed in house and sold to other airlines, we know he's just found some old annual reports in a cupboard :eek:

Stovepipe

Who thought this one up? T2 widebody ops are already a pain in the neck as each widebody takes up two spaces when it parks and it takes very little effort to cause delays in the morning when the first widebodies come in, delays which add up and ruin the operational day. It's also a pain for maintenance as T2 requires the longest, most obstructive tow to H6 in the airport, which also applies to Aer Arran. Sticking small turbos into the T2 mix, a very tight fit anyway, is not going to help.Turbos work best when they are allowed to use self-manouvering stands, with no need to use piers and especially no airbridges.All it takes is a few cheap buses. We used to put six F50s on the old "70s" stands and it worked like clockwork. No tugs or towbars needed, which meant less clutter on the ramp.

regards
Stovepipe

Zonda999

I donlt know much about this affects T2 operations but this had to be done eventually considering EI is trying to enhance the connectivity of its services. As regards using the Regional operation as a feeder service for T/A operations, it would make sense to have RE operate into the same terminal. Seeing as EY also have codeshares on some RE services now as well, It wouldnt surprise me if they demanded that these operate from the same terminal

Don't mean to go off topic but on the subject of RE, the first of the new ATR 72-600's is nearly ready

See a picture of it here: http://ow.ly/i/1U8AK/original

No.username

I think the plan is to bus passengers from the lower level of Pier E, there is a function available which will allow to split the ground level between US screened passengers and non-us screened passengers.

brandon_flowers

Does anyone think the regional flights will just use the same stands as always but with the passengers being bused out of T2 rather than the 214-220 gates?

It's a bit like DUB-CDG with the CityJet flight, you use terminal 2E but the stand is actually miles away out in 2G.

donvito99

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Does anyone think the regional flights will just use the same stands as always but with the passengers being bused out of T2 rather than the 214-220 gates?

It's a bit like DUB-CDG with the CityJet flight, you use terminal 2E but the stand is actually miles away out in 2G.

Haha yes, that brings back memories. DUB is such an awkward airport at this stage.

Terminal 2 should have been built out west between the existing 28/10 and the proposed parallel, then doze the existing mess.

basill

Heard a rumour about 6 months ago that our (AL) flight ops which is on the ground floor of T2 with ramp access was to be gutted and used as part of an Aer Lingus Regional checkin and assembly point for them to be bussed to aircraft. We would then move landslide to the old personnel and catering building besides cargo.

Strumms

donvito99 wrote: »

What about this cargo place?

The more I think about it the only suitable option I can think of would be for them to be bussed from T2 all the way up to their current stand allocation up in the 100s. The Cargo stands which you have highlighted wouldn't work in my view as firstly it would add a lot of congestion to the already congested surrounding area of stands, taxiways, engine start up points etc. you would see a lot of gate holds and taxi out delays it could be a nightmare and it's all a one way system. It works for Cargo though as there are only a couple of movements per day early morning and latish evening. Also there surely cannot be enough parking @ T2 itself for the ATRs can there. Would EI take over a couple of the pier B stands on a permanent basis, I know they use a couple occasionally early AM etc.

kona

basill wrote: »

Heard a rumour about 6 months ago that our (AL) flight ops which is on the ground floor of T2 with ramp access was to be gutted and used as part of an Aer Lingus Regional checkin and assembly point for them to be bussed to aircraft. We would then move landslide to the old personnel and catering building besides cargo.

There are gates unfinished just down from there, the personnel building is being refurbed too so you may be right there!

flanzer

Guys, there will be now ATR parked in Pier E. Aer Lingus will bus from Pier E only. The area will be then closed and sanitised at 7 a.m ready for the CBP operation. Should the be any delays to the AL Regionals, they will be bussed from lower Pier B instead

Flier

basill wrote: »

Heard a rumour about 6 months ago that our (AL) flight ops which is on the ground floor of T2 with ramp access was to be gutted and used as part of an Aer Lingus Regional checkin and assembly point for them to be bussed to aircraft. We would then move landslide to the old personnel and catering building besides cargo.

Should be interesting trying to get all the preflight stuff done, plus clearing security in the 45mins / 1hr15 allocated.....:eek:

tony3953

flanzer wrote: »

Guys, there will be now ATR parked in Pier E. Aer Lingus will bus from Pier E only. The area will be then closed and sanitised at 7 a.m ready for the CBP operation. Should the be any delays to the AL Regionals, they will be bussed from lower Pier B instead

What about the rest of the day? So what you are saying is that there will be no ATR departures during CBP hours?

Rubbish!

No.username

flanzer wrote: »

Guys, there will be now ATR parked in Pier E. Aer Lingus will bus from Pier E only. The area will be then closed and sanitised at 7 a.m ready for the CBP operation. Should the be any delays to the AL Regionals, they will be bussed from lower Pier B instead

Don't know where you are getting your info from but you are wrong! Anyone who has been in the CBP may remember that there is a few gates behind a large glass partition which you access via 2 automatic doors which are always left open. They are going to close these doors and use this to split CBP, so a US bound passenger will be on ones side of the glass and the Aer Arann passenger on the other.

There are no incomplete gates in T2 as Kona mentioned. And Aer Arann passengers will be checking in, in the T2 Check in building as normal.

flanzer

tony3953 wrote: »

What about the rest of the day? So what you are saying is that there will be no ATR departures during CBP hours?

Rubbish!

Exactly. No ATR bussing departures from Pier E between 07:00 and 14:30.

No.username wrote: »

Don't know where you are getting your info from but you are wrong! Anyone who has been in the CBP may remember that there is a few gates behind a large glass partition which you access via 2 automatic doors which are always left open. They are going to close these doors and use this to split CBP, so a US bound passenger will be on ones side of the glass and the Aer Arann passenger on the other.

There are no incomplete gates in T2 as Kona mentioned. And Aer Arann passengers will be checking in, in the T2 Check in building as normal.

They will only be using Gate 404 initially and it will act as a 'fish bowl', segregated away from the rest of the CBP area. ATR passengers will be rooted down through Gate 412

basill

I think the DAA called them "swing gates" or some such term. I can only vaguely recall as the young lady giving us the tour a few years ago was drop dead gorgeous and lads being lads we were mightily distracted and not paying attention!

lord lucan

basill wrote: »

I think the DAA called them "swing gates" or some such term. I can only vaguely recall as the young lady giving us the tour a few years ago was drop dead gorgeous and lads being lads we were mightily distracted and not paying attention!

The swing gates are the large glass doors on the upper level of Pier E that lockdown parts of the pier for CBP ops. The area the previous 2 posters reference is on the lower level of Pier E,gates 402 & 404. These have the waiting area enclosed in glass and a double glass door entry. Since T2 opened the doors have remained open but the facility is there to close them and let passengers come down the stairs through one of the upper gates use that waiting area.

This pic is the best i could find to illustrate that area. The entrance is in the centre of the photo.



I heard in the job today that EIR would be using a combo of Pier E & B.

Locker10a

Anyone know when EI plan to move out of their HQ building and into H6? I know they are already in H6, but I mean moving their HQ offices there? And also are EI selling the Iolar building that houses their training facilities? Am I right in thinking there is a pool and cabin mock up and flight sims there?

Katunga

the pool you are thinking of is the ALSAA

kona

No.username wrote: »

There are no incomplete gates in T2 as Kona mentioned. And Aer Arann passengers will be checking in, in the T2 Check in building as normal.

There is , they are a floor under the lounges

L1011

kona wrote: »

There is , they are a floor under the lounges

Is that not just the remains of Pier C?

kona

MYOB wrote: »

Is that not just the remains of Pier C?

You could be right there!

Locker10a

So I noticed recently EI have been hiring in Titan to operate flights to keep their operations on schedule! And today i heard they are to lease an A320 from Iberia for the summer, they are obviously an aircraft short! Any one know when it arrives and what livery it will have? Will it be like the summer leases during the 90's with half a livery?

L1011

Read elsewhere it'll stay whitetail to allow subbing on VS if required

Tenger

MYOB wrote: »

Read elsewhere it'll stay whitetail to allow subbing on VS if required

Makes sense really....VS wouldn't be happy with a EI livery operating 'their' routes. better all white than shamrock livery.

That will impact the EI bottom line on the VS operation, however the extra fleet unit may prevent other hire-ins throughout the summer season.

Kenny2012

It arrived yesterday reg is EC-KNM and it is all white.

tony3953

Tenger wrote: »

Makes sense really....VS wouldn't be happy with a EI livery operating 'their' routes. better all white than shamrock livery.

That will impact the EI bottom line on the VS operation, however the extra fleet unit may prevent other hire-ins throughout the summer season.

It's already happened. Last week I believe.

Noticed RE operating from pier B today so guess that's how it's going to roll now!

belcampprisoner

terminal 2 is empty most days after the big flights leave

terminal 1 should be knocked down and rebuilt,

Tenger

belcampprisoner wrote: »

terminal 2 is empty most days after the big flights leave

terminal 1 should be knocked down and rebuilt,

What about the 30 odd EI flights that depart T2 post 1300?

Where will we put Ryanair, CityJet, BA, Lufthansa, Iberia, Swiss etc while we rebuild T1?
(However I do agree that a newbuild terminal would be a good idea,just not happening for decades...)

lord lucan

tony3953 wrote: »

Noticed RE operating from pier B today so guess that's how it's going to roll now!

The first 2 EIR flights,EDI & BRS departed Pier E by way of bus via gate 412. The rest of the days departures used Pier B. I believe that's how it's going to be from now on.

markpb

Tenger wrote: »

What about the 30 odd EI flights that depart T2 post 1300?

Where will we put Ryanair, CityJet, BA, Lufthansa, Iberia, Swiss etc while we rebuild T1?
(However I do agree that a newbuild terminal would be a good idea,just not happening for decades...)

30 flights between 1pm and 11pm is hardly making good use of the infrastructure. I always expected that a number of carriers would move from T1 to T2 once it was open. This would allow them to close off parts of T1 and rebuild them properly without necessitating a full closure which isn't workable.

RonanM123

markpb wrote: »

30 flights between 1pm and 11pm is hardly making good use of the infrastructure. I always expected that a number of carriers would move from T1 to T2 once it was open. This would allow them to close off parts of T1 and rebuild them properly without necessitating a full closure which isn't workable.

After 1pm tomorrow there are more flights from T2 than T1....and its approx 50 from T2.

What other carriers would you expect to move over?

In 2012 just under 8.8 million passengers used T2 (E and B piers) that will grow a lot this year and it will likely mean that T2 is much busier that T1.

Delta, Us Airways, American, Etihad and Aer Lingus have added a lot of capacity for the summer, EI 15% alone. EIR regional mocing over will generate over 1 million passengers at T2. Between May and December 2012 EIR services carried around 750 add this to an estimated 300,000 extra ones this year and T2 will be just under 10 million this year.

basill

30 flights between 1pm and 11pm is hardly making good use of the infrastructure

You do realise that you live in Ireland and not Hong Kong, New York, London or any other major world city don't you. Ireland has 4.5m people with a huge number unemployed and is facing its worst recession and austerity.

brandon_flowers

Are there any widebody aircrafts operating out of T1 currently? Can't think of any off hand.

The main reason other carriers LH, BA etc won't change from T1 to T2 is that they don't need to and there is very little benefit I can think of. If as Ronan says the numbers from T2 are to increase close to 10m then T2 will be overtaking T1 in terms of pax numbers in the very near future. Why would any airline want to move short haul operations to a terminal which is getting busier with long haul aircraft/operations?

And as a frequent passenger I don't see much wrong with T1 at the moment except the dreadfully managed queues at security screening sometimes.

LXFlyer

A few points on this:

1) Why would anyone expect more short hail airlines to shift to T2 when there is no need to? All long haul flights are now from T2, and that's where the focus on new airlines will be. The whole point is that both terminals are now reasonably pleasant to pass through rather than the seriously congested single terminal that we had in the past.

2) You are perfectly entitled to pass through security in Terminal 2 for a flight departing from Terminal 1 if you have hand baggage only - that is in fact what I now do unless flying business class and can use the fast track. The benefit? Far shorter security queues and generally far more savvy passengers in said queues.

I'd have to agree - as someone who flies pretty regularly I don't see any particular need to rebuild T1 - the main problem is the security queues. In my experience that problem is partially at least down to an awful lot of unprepared passengers.

markpb

Maybe it's just me but the T1 checkin areas are worn and ugly, badly organised and the queues regularly block the access of people moving along the area. The ground-side restaurants and cafes have almost all closed. The airside restaurants haven't fared much better. Security is terrible. The luggage collection area has improved slightly bt is still pretty awful.

T1 might be fine if you're a short haul traveller with no luggage, no family climbing up your legs and you're not in a hurry. For anything else, it's not great.

cson

Won't happen with the T2 debt hanging over them but now really is the time to improve upon the existing infrastructure in the airport. New runway, refurb T1 and put the groundwork in for the proposed T3 (iirc there's a sketchy outline of the DUB development plan somewhere on this forum and a T3 was in it).

Rather than waiting for the airport to reach capacity again and then doing something about it.

If the powers that be ever take the financial stimulus route then this is what it should be spent on - improving infrastructure like this will create jobs in both the construction phase and afterwards when the airport itself will be attractive to FDI.

Razor44

Dublin Airport local area plan, pages 36 on, plans for the development of the the airport, T3, 28L, road and rail links etc. its all in there.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/LocalAreaPlans/AirportLocalAreaPlan/SEAReportl.pdf

Tenger

Razor44 wrote: »

Dublin Airport local area plan, pages 36 on, plans for the development of the the airport, T3, 28L, road and rail links etc. its all in there.....

Great link, thanks for that. I had lost it before.


I can't believe they use the term "Dublin Airport Master Plan"

jamo2oo9

Is it just me or is anyone else think that the second runway in that document appears to be slightly bigger than the one we have right now? Not much of a difference. Nice plans they have, I prefer the last option where they redevelop the existing terminals, add another one inbetween the two runways plus another of what appears to be a cargo facility at the south end of the airport.

Razor44

10 L /28 R in that plan is the first proposed length and not the revised one that was submitted shortly afterwards, i think. the updated plan is for a runway of 3660 and not 3110m

Jamie2k9

Razor44 wrote: »

10 L /28 R in that plan is the first proposed length and not the revised one that was submitted shortly afterwards, i think. the updated plan is for a runway of 3660 and not 3110m

Thats correct.