Cattle dying of hunger

Cavanjack

Is it just me or does it look very bad every couple of nights on rte news farmers talking about cattle dying of the hunger. One farmer on tonight (a councillor I think) said he has lost 7 cattle because of feed shortages and lack of credit form the bank. I know if it was me and I couldn't feed them I would have them sold long ago. What's stopping any of these lads selling?

Muckit

Cavanjack wrote: »

What's stopping any of these lads selling?

Well thank you for addressing the big white elephant in the room.

Conmaicne Mara

I find it somewhat hard to believe, giving my honest opinion about it. If I couldn't feed my ewes, as problematic as it would be selling them, I would have them at the mart rather than let them die. It shouldn't be allowed happen.

CJhaughey

New Zealand has just gone through a huge drought and the farmers sold off a load of stock, they didn't let them die for lack of water.
If they couldn't water them they had to sell them.

delaval

Cattle only die of hunger if they are not fed. There is a mart everyday. Complaining on news will achieve nothing save IFA etc jumping on band wagon

keep going

with all due respect if you sell your dairy herd now you are out of buisiness

Manoffeeling

Farmers being penalised when they spread an extra bag of fertiliser by the department, but nothing about the guy who lets his/her cattle die because of his/her unwillingness to sell cattle. The department arn't doing their job.

delaval

keep going wrote: »

with all due respect if you sell your dairy herd now you are out of buisiness

If I don't feed I go out of business. I know what you're saying but this is not a fodder crisis but a cash/credit issue IMO

keep going

delaval wrote: »

If I don't feed I go out of business. I know what you're saying but this is not a fodder crisis but a cash/credit issue IMO

money or credit isnt much good if there is nothing to buy.i sold silage locally just because the local paper had no ads with silage and fair play all lads paid but everybody has put down some 12 months of feeding and it has left their finances in bad shape.you cant go on indefinately shelling out for feed

whelan1

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Farmers being penalised when they spread an extra bag of fertiliser by the department, but nothing about the guy who lets his/her cattle die because of his/her unwillingness to sell cattle. The department arn't doing their job.

the dept have shot a number of animals on farms in our county due to hunger.....as stated before yes if you dont have enough feed you should sell but its very hard for people to sell at a major loss , also people are holding out as they are being told "it'll be alright next week"

delaval

keep going wrote: »

money or credit isnt much good if there is nothing to buy.i sold silage locally just because the local paper had no ads with silage and fair play all lads paid but everybody has put down some 12 months of feeding and it has left their finances in bad shape.you cant go on indefinately shelling out for feed

I know where you are coming from but we can't let th die of starvation. As I said and I think you agree cash is the prob and there is one way to get cash and that's through sales

freedominacup

whelan1 wrote: »

the dept have shot a number of animals on farms in our county due to hunger.....as stated before yes if you dont have enough feed you should sell but its very hard for people to sell at a major loss , also people are holding out as they are being told "it'll be alright next week"

Yes but this is supposed to be a business and in business sometimes hard decisions have to be made and losses have to be taken to preserve the core of the business. We had to sell a lot of unfinished stock last year because of superlevy related cashflow issues. I don't know how much we lost on them but we had to keep the core fed and on the road. People aren't selling because there's a belief abroad that the government have a responsibility to step in and are going to live up to this responsibility. Truth is it has f'all to do with the government and they aren't going to do any more than it takes to get a few positive photo-ops. So sell the cattle you cant afford to keep and get the cash to keep the rest and stop moaning about it.

Blue Holland

Is it more a case of cattle dying of problems related to feeding too much concentrates and not enough roughage rather than dying of hunger?

whelan1

freedominacup wrote: »

Yes but this is supposed to be a business and in business sometimes hard decisions have to be made and losses have to be taken to preserve the core of the business. We had to sell a lot of unfinished stock last year because of superlevy related cashflow issues. I don't know how much we lost on them but we had to keep the core fed and on the road. People aren't selling because there's a belief abroad that the government have a responsibility to step in and are going to live up to this responsibility. Truth is it has f'all to do with the government and they aren't going to do any more than it takes to get a few positive photo-ops. So sell the cattle you cant afford to keep and get the cash to keep the rest and stop moaning about it.

yes i agree 100%people should sell their cattle if they cant feed them, telling them it will be ok next week is utter ****e

Milton09

Blue Holland wrote: »

Is it more a case of cattle dying of problems related to feeding too much concentrates and not enough roughage rather than dying of hunger?

Yes, I've seen this in my locality.

Muckit

keep going wrote: »

with all due respect if you sell your dairy herd now you are out of buisiness

Dead cows don't produce much milk.

You don't sell all, if you sold 5-10 depending on the size of your herd, you would have no headaches and money to feed the cattle that you have remaining. Not feeding animals correctly or sufficiently shouldn't be an option.

Muckit

whelan1 wrote: »

the dept have shot a number of animals on farms in our county due to hunger.....as stated before yes if you dont have enough feed you should sell but its very hard for people to sell at a major loss , also people are holding out as they are being told "it'll be alright next week"

I don't care. I really don't care if you have to sell at a major loss. What has to be done, has to be done. If you can't feed your animals no matter whether your a farmer or a dog owner, you must sell. Watching them dye shouldn't be an option.

Muckit

You'd hear some farmers giving out about the dept and Europe telling them how to farm. You know there seems to be a lot out there that need to be shown how to farm - module 1 - basic animal husbandry.

Dunedin

keep going wrote: »

with all due respect if you sell your dairy herd now you are out of buisiness

and when your cattle die, you're not????

Muckit

'What are my options if I have no forage on the farm?' was one of the questions posed in a question and answers article on 'The fodder crisis and how to survive it' in yesterday Indo.

Selling cattle was not mentioned as an option....why? Instead it said 'If you have no fodder on the farm, you need to source some fodder....' No sh*t Einstein.

If I can't as a farmer get my head around farm animals dying of hunger in April, what hope have the general public looking at it every night on the news?

whelan1

Muckit wrote: »

I don't care. I really don't care if you have to sell at a major loss. What has to be done, has to be done. If you can't feed your animals no matter whether your a farmer or a dog owner, you must sell. Watching them dye shouldn't be an option.

yes , this is the point i have been trying to get across for weeks, yes you should sell them if you have no feed, so why dont people sell them???? is it because they are being told it will be all ok next week? or is it that people are not thinking straight mentally? Its all well and good saying buy feed, but buy with what?????

pakalasa

Muckit wrote: »

..If I can't as a farmer get my head around farm animals dying of hunger in April..

What I can't undetstand is the IFA waiting till the end of April to do something about it.
Muckit, a lot of these are top dairy farmers, who under the guidance of Teagasc have pushed effeciency to the limit. This is calendar farming, with grass measuring, grass budgets...you name it. There is no elbow room there for anything to go wrong.

kevthegaff

i agree, some of my heifers are a little skinny, so im feeding them and the dry cows 2-3 kgs a day since october, weanlings the same, milkers 7kgs. The bill is adding up with the co op:eek: but hopefully the grass will start to grow to even things out! dont understand why lads wont feed more meal when the silage they are buying is crap

delaval

pakalasa wrote: »

What I can't undetstand is the IFA waiting till the end of April to do something about it.
Muckit, a lot of these are top dairy farmers, who under the guidance of Teagasc have pushed effeciency to the limit. This is calendar farming, with grass measuring, grass budgets...you name it. There is no elbow room there for anything to go wrong.

We push to the limit and am still able to feed cows. It's all about management and planning. Too late when you need the fire brigade. According to our local knacker man the deaths on dairy farms are actually down.
I will admit that we are in a good area land wise and wouldn't have had to house cows in July or August last year

pakalasa

Cork seems to be the worst affected too. That area got twice the normal amount of rain over the summer months last ayear. Who can plan for that. Also, they normally have an early spring. As we know, spring was too cold for anything to grow. In a way, it has been a perfect storm for them.
Probably will never happen in their lifetime again. Can't the banks see that this is just a tempory problem. All about cash flow. No local banking with local expertise anymore.

whelan1

we where saying yesterday, normally you could let cattle out and they could eat around the ditches, there is nothing at the ditches, leaves only starting to grow etc..... worst ever!

pburns

Is it not the case that some lads are just stocked to max capacity to have the numbers with no margin for unforseen issues like this? Sounds a bit ivory towers I know but we all know lads with big numbers of average quality. The best farmers I know have a few less numbers but better quality stock (which is irelevant to current crisis I know - just saying)

Dampintheattic

The problem of not having fodder for the here and now, is a huge issue no doubt.
The unseen problem, is that fodder for next winter, is likely to be an even bigger issue, given zero fodder carry over from this year, and likely smaller than normal amount of fodder to be harvested this summer, due to continuing bad weather.:(
Think I will be, weaning calves off cull cows as young as four months this year, to get the cows fattened early and reasonably cheaply, and off to factory by September.
Reducing stock numbers over the summer and early autumn, will be vital if weather does not completely turn for the better ASAP.

Manoffeeling

whelan1 wrote: »

the dept have shot a number of animals on farms in our county due to hunger.....as stated before yes if you dont have enough feed you should sell but its very hard for people to sell at a major loss , also people are holding out as they are being told "it'll be alright next week"

Will the farmers involved be prosecuted for cruelty to animals?

limiter12

CJhaughey wrote: »

New Zealand has just gone through a huge drought and the farmers sold off a load of stock, they didn't let them die for lack of water.
If they couldn't water them they had to sell them.

I think you may have to check your sources .http://preciousjules1985.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/240-starving-cows-killed-on-farm-new-zealand/

moy83

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Will the farmers involved be prosecuted for cruelty to animals?

They should anyhow , I was talking to a lad the other day who told me anyone of his cows could drop any minute they were so thin :eek: He went on to say sure what could he do as its just the year thats in it . This lad loses more than he should most years anyhow just because he is juggling too much at the same time , I'd say a good chunk of lads losing extra stock this year are fellas that are usually not too fond of stockmanship in the best of times .
Dont get me wrong I know not everyone losing stock at the minute are like this but from what I see around myself at the minute there are a good few usual culprits letting them go hungry

djmc

Some parts of the country were hit worse than others here in Kerry you can't get fodder no matter how much money you have
I have had lads promese me truck loads of hay and silage and not turn up on the day not answer the phone or turn it off or tell you they had to give your load to an other farmer and would keep a look out for more for you.
Feeding straw and concentrate to milking cows they will get thin fast if you have no straw or fodder and your promesed feed does not arrive after being put back a week or two and it will take 10 days for vet to blood test and get results back your probably going to loose some animals
And if you have no feed you will have to sell all your animals not just some that's the pressure some lads are under thank god I had some family members who had silage and helped me out.

vanderbadger

lads I dont know if any of ye are near Clarinbridge in Galway or ever pass thru, I pass thru twice a day with work but there is a big field of horses just outside the village, there isnt a pick there for ages and there is about 20 horses in there, now I dont want to wrong anyone, maybe they are getting fed but I dont see any feeders etc in the field which is blackened at this stage, if they arent its some disgrace

noddyone2

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Will the farmers involved be prosecuted for cruelty to animals?

What do you think? very doubtful. I was driving through County Tipp. last sunday, saw cattle (on several farms) eating dead grass - by that I mean fields that had been sprayed and the grass had died. Never saw this before.

mf240

I would live on bread and water before Id allow my animals to starve. And so would most of my neighbours. Taking a bad price for a few wouldnt bother me if it meant I could keep the rest going. How many of these guys that are shouting the loudest are driving newish jeeps and went on holidays last year and can go drinking once a week.

mf240

noddyone2 wrote: »

What do you think? very doubtful. I was driving through County Tipp. last sunday, saw cattle (on several farms) eating dead grass - by that I mean fields that had been sprayed and the grass had died. Never saw this before.

Grass turned yellow from the frost ?

moy83

vanderbadger wrote: »

lads I dont know if any of ye are near Clarinbridge in Galway or ever pass thru, I pass thru twice a day with work but there is a big field of horses just outside the village, there isnt a pick there for ages and there is about 20 horses in there, now I dont want to wrong anyone, maybe they are getting fed but I dont see any feeders etc in the field which is blackened at this stage, if they arent its some disgrace

Im doing a house there at the minute and I think there is a lad going in with meal to them alright . There are 70 bales of perfect silage across the road too , if they ever got across to them there woud be patching for doing !

noddyone2

mf240 wrote: »

Grass turned yellow from the frost ?

Definetely not. Sprayed for sure.

reilig

noddyone2 wrote: »

What do you think? very doubtful. I was driving through County Tipp. last sunday, saw cattle (on several farms) eating dead grass - by that I mean fields that had been sprayed and the grass had died. Never saw this before.

That's normal enough. It's safe to allow cattle to graze sprayed off grass 10 days after spraying. Land will probably be ploughed and/or reseeded when growth starts.

Conmaicne Mara

whelan1 wrote: »

also people are holding out as they are being told "it'll be alright next week"

Last time I checked the long range forecast was maybe 10 days ago. It said decent week, bit of growth, followed by slump into cooler temps - which will do SFA for growth.

Perhaps part of this is a poor flow of information, or people not informing themselves. The solution to this fodder crisis being strong grass growth which will only come with good growing weather.

It's a bit like a programme once where some fella was flying from South America to Antarctica. Once the plane got to the point of no return, well it's Antarctica or bust. I think the same applies to any farm, comes a point where decisions have to be made without thought to emotional or financial concerns.

Basically someone in that situation is damned if they do, damned if they don't. If you do sell and take a hit, then that hit will follow that farmer around for a year or two or maybe longer. But, if s/he doesn't sell and the animals start dropping, isn't it a worse end result as then they have the death of that animal playing on their mind as well as the financial/breeding hit.

I was sitting in a Teagasc waiting room yesterday and this topic came up, no one, not one farmer mentioned selling stock as an option. I mentioned it and was met by silence and a swift change of subject.

A business or a vocation I wonder?

If it were me, I'd bite my lip, pick out the least productive/most wild and send them on down the road.

Have had experience of that before in another entirely bureaucratic situation, where there was no difference in the stock quality, it's an entirely ****ty situation. But, in my view, better than the alternative in this situation.

yellowlabrador

What annoys me most is, that Declan Hurley, the farmer in the news, is our local county Councillor . He is therefore better off than most other farmers without a big wage and expenses. I think people will think twice before reelecting him. I also think that the EU and the government carry some of the blame. On the one hand, they are expecting agriculture to lead Ireland out of austerity, but don't give the same support to the farming industry that they give to the banking industry.Time for some elections I think.

Conmaicne Mara

yellowlabrador wrote: »

Time for some elections I think.

I'll declare my interest in that I voted for the current "shower" Mainly due to my local rep coming from a farming background.

In fairness I'd be a bit iffy about the minister.

But I've heard calls for elections on various topics. And something I wonder, without bringing my own voting into it, who exactly is out there that would be better?

vanderbadger

moy83 wrote: »

Im doing a house there at the minute and I think there is a lad going in with meal to them alright . There are 70 bales of perfect silage across the road too , if they ever got across to them there woud be patching for doing !

thats good to know anyway, i saw a lorry pull in beside the field one morning, the driver was just taking a phone call, all the horses rushed over to the wall expecting to get something when they saw him

oxjkqg

sure if u havnt got the feed then u have to sell. its not for the government to be bailin us out. were businesses. if we diddnt allow to have enough feed then thats like a builder plasterin a house, the weather turnin wet and takin all the fresh plaster off the house and sayin he wants the government to pay for the stuff to replaster it!!

Also in west clare, galway, certain areas of the country we have to work around a long winter. cows being in at d end of october and in till march generally. now in cork i could be wrong but dont ye normally talk of gettin out in early february?

i think we have to all remember the things we were thought as we learned our trade... animal husbandry techniques and not leaving animals suffering. so if it is a thing that a small number of animals have to go, then do it and open up funds a small bit. not a simple as it sounds but as Whelan said thats what should be done with a long time.

and any tillage men or any1 that got into cows lately, this spring is going to be an eye opener to what dairying is like and that its not all big milk cheques, years like this happen and its goin to seperate the boys from the men.

noddyone2

reilig wrote: »

That's normal enough. It's safe to allow cattle to graze sprayed off grass 10 days after spraying. Land will probably be ploughed and/or reseeded when growth starts.

Thanks for that - always something to be learned!

royaler83

keep going wrote: »

with all due respect if you sell your dairy herd now you are out of buisiness

If a dairy farmer has 100 home reared milking cows and for example sells his worst performing 10-15 due to lack of feed and to use the money to buy feed, he's not exactly losing a fortune on them, he's just not making as much as he would if he kept them on milking through the summer.

I know it has knock on effects later in the year or next year with getting numbers back up etc but is he not better milking 85-90 well fed cows than 100 half fed ones

reilig

oxjkqg wrote: »

Also in west clare, galway, certain areas of the country we have to work around a long winter. cows being in at d end of october and in till march generally. now in cork i could be wrong but dont ye normally talk of gettin out in early february?

We have a bunch of 10 of last year's autum calvers that were housed in the first week of July last year and haven't seen outside since then - probably won't for another 2 weeks either.

In this part of the country it's the norm to have cattle housed on the first week and not expect to be letting them out until the first week in may. While we are kind of prepared for having to feed silage indoors for 6 months, having to house cattle from last July put a good dent in our planned silage supply. We did supplement by buying in straw and a lot of meal over the winter, but we're at the limit now with about 10 days of silage left to keep feeding at full tilt. Ideally a bit of warm weather would leave us that we could get half of the stock out and see our fodder last an extra week or 2.

People that had planned on having cattle out 2 months ago must be in a serious situation at this stage.

There's one thing for sure on our farm, the tax man won't be looking for any money from us for this year or last.

kevthegaff

depressing thread

Dampintheattic

reilig wrote: »

We have a bunch of 10 of last year's autum calvers that were housed in the first week of July last year and haven't seen outside since then - probably won't for another 2 weeks either.

In this part of the country it's the norm to have cattle housed on the first week and not expect to be letting them out until the first week in may. While we are kind of prepared for having to feed silage indoors for 6 months, having to house cattle from last July put a good dent in our planned silage supply. We did supplement by buying in straw and a lot of meal over the winter, but we're at the limit now with about 10 days of silage left to keep feeding at full tilt. Ideally a bit of warm weather would leave us that we could get half of the stock out and see our fodder last an extra week or 2.

People that had planned on having cattle out 2 months ago must be in a serious situation at this stage.

There's one thing for sure on our farm, the tax man won't be looking for any money from us for this year or last.

Met Eireann website, not promising. Generally wet for the next week. Some frost. North / Northwest air stream early next week.
Fertilizer in my yard with over a month, waiting for chance to spread.
Lashed it all out yesterday. No other choice really. Nearly lost the tractor in a few spots:eek:

pakalasa

Average ground temps have been 10.4 around here for the last 7 days (Shannon Airport). That's not bad. Grass is growing some bit.:o

Dampintheattic

pakalasa wrote: »

Average ground temps have been 10.4 around here for the last 7 days (Shannon Airport). That's not bad. Grass is growing some bit.:o

F'all recovery on grass that has been grazed.
On my way to work, I observe a dry, reseeded, well managed field of about 20 acres. Dairy farmer. Grazed in March / into April. Well fertilized. Slurry early in the year. It's green now, and showing growth, but way, way behind it's potential.