instrumentation Baldoyle

Ging Ging

Hi all,
I just got called for the interview/discussion about entry onto the next instrumentation upskilling course run by FAS. From what I hear they call around 30 people or so for the discussion and take 12 onto each course.
So can anyone who has been there and done that, tell me what sort of topics or questions they ask about? I take it they want to ask each applicant about their individual experience but what areas are of particular importance and worth emphasising at the discussion stage?
Its good to be prepared.

gccrowley1

Hi, sorry to jump in and not have any answers to your question, but wondering how you applied for this course, I can't find anything on their site about it, do you know who I should talk to and how long of a waiting list there is for it..... I need to do ASAP as I may have a job offer if I have qualification in instrumentation..?

Inbox

I enquired about it. There's about a 100 blokes on the waiting list.

Ging Ging

Well GC I've been on the waiting list for 4 months and just got called now. There were 60ish lads ahead of me back in December. When it disappeared from the FAS website a month or so ago, I made contact with them to see was it still going ahead or not. They told me that it is running as normal but is no longer advertised as they have 75+ applicants.
Alternatives are private night courses run in IT Blanch in Process Control. They are FETAC accredited but I don't think PC1 will run there again until September and PC2 in January. FAS also run Instrumentation Upskilling in Cork if your mobile.

m.j.w

Ging Ging wrote: »

Well GC I've been on the waiting list for 4 months and just got called now. There were 60ish lads ahead of me back in December. When it disappeared from the FAS website a month or so ago, I made contact with them to see was it still going ahead or not. They told me that it is running as normal but is no longer advertised as they have 75+ applicants.
Alternatives are private night courses run in IT Blanch in Process Control. They are FETAC accredited but I don't think PC1 will run there again until September and PC2 in January. FAS also run Instrumentation Upskilling in Cork if your mobile.

Would recommend the one in Blanchardstown, done it last year and was pretty good but as said its not on until september.

The Nutty M

You sure they are still running the Instrumentation in Cork Ging?I heard Baldoyle is the only one doing it now,Cork has gone to E&I for a while to clear a backlog of apprentices.
As to what goes on in the "interview",30+ are called,maybe 20 or less will turn up.Anyone that doesn't turn up is thrown off the waiting list unless you have a very valid reason for not coming.It's more of a discussion than an interview.He'll ask you to talk about yourself and why you want to do the course.And thus concludes the interview.:P
It ain't about willy waving and bigging up yourself.You've been called to interview so you have a place on that course or the one after depending on where you are on the list.If you don't get on the first course,be sure to be sitting beside your phone on day 1 and 2 of the course,you could be rang to fill a place from some lad that has dropped out or didn't turn up.
Are you coming from an electrical or fitting background?

Ging Ging

The Nutty M wrote: »

You sure they are still running the Instrumentation in Cork Ging?I heard Baldoyle is the only one doing it now,Cork has gone to E&I for a while to clear a backlog of apprentices.
As to what goes on in the "interview",30+ are called,maybe 20 or less will turn up.Anyone that doesn't turn up is thrown off the waiting list unless you have a very valid reason for not coming.It's more of a discussion than an interview.He'll ask you to talk about yourself and why you want to do the course.And thus concludes the interview.:P
It ain't about willy waving and bigging up yourself.You've been called to interview so you have a place on that course or the one after depending on where you are on the list.If you don't get on the first course,be sure to be sitting beside your phone on day 1 and 2 of the course,you could be rang to fill a place from some lad that has dropped out or didn't turn up.
Are you coming from an electrical or fitting background?

No not sure. I just was basing my info on the FAS website but on closer inspection I see their next intake in Cork isn't until December.
Anyway Im neither electric7an or fitter. I come originally from a plumbing background, more recently involved in electronic/electrical engineering. I want to move my career towards process/control eng. I know a fair bit of general electrical theory and a lot of electronic and programming. Im hoping they will see me as an "engineering craft worker" or something like that.

The Nutty M

As long as you have a very good grasp of electrical circuits and all the maths that goes with it (specifically series,parallel,current drop,voltage drop,capacitance (a big part of it),resistors) you will be grand.

From the plumbing trade you will understand all about pressure in liquids in open and closed systems,to an electrician that's double dutch:D .You'll have the upper hand in flow,pressure and level in understanding it.Temperature is the only other one that is covered in the course.

A little word of advice too,don't expect it to be easy just because it's FAS,it has a long waiting list for a reason.;).12 lads started the course when I was there,9 finished.1 got a job,the other 2 pulled out.

Ging Ging

Thats good. I'm looking forward to it as I've had my eye on it for a couple of years without being in a position to do it.
I heard it can be hard alright but I think I understand the electrical concepts you mentioned well. I've some level of knowledge on each part so hopefully I can build on them.
With temperature is it energy calculations and measurements, enthrophy and enthralpy etc.?

Ging Ging

The Nutty M wrote: »

It ain't about willy waving and bigging up yourself.

Thanks, I'll be sure to keep my willy wrapped up in the future

gccrowley1

That's a bit of a list if lads ahead of me, I need to do it ASAP for a job , I know the last course I went on to complete I would have been waiting months because of the list of lads ahead of me then also, but I just kept at them To call me if anybody drops out , I didn't mind a last minute call or even if I missed a day or two cause somebody couldn't stick it .... An low and behold I got a call within 3 weeks as a lad arrived on days 1 and 2 then legged it, I got a call and was told I can have the spot if I think I could catch up..... Hopefully something like this can happen again this time..... And hopefully get somebody to pull some strings for me if I can.....

gccrowley1

To get anywhere with fas (fast) ye really have to pester and pester them..... Eventually you will meet somebody who has a bit of pull and wants to help you out..........

The Nutty M

No not really that specific as in enthrophy and enthralpy (had to google them to see what they were :P).More so the theory and practice around RTD's,thermocouples and thermisters.
Getting the noggin around temperature after pressure flow and level being closely matched was tough going but you may find it easy.Enjoy it.
Work is fairly easy get after the course with not too much effort:D.

The Nutty M

Have fun trying to get onto the course without being on the waiting list Mr Crowley,I wouldn't hold my breath though.;)

Ging Ging

Ah right it'll be good to get that sensor stuff cleared up a bit in my head.

gccrowley1

The Nutty M wrote: »

Have fun trying to get onto the course without being on the waiting list Mr Crowley,I wouldn't hold my breath though.;)

Anything is worth a try at this stage, I will just keep at them , over and over again..... They really need to up the capacity for the course or initiate an additional one..... If there is enough of us in this boat keep at them they may so something , just like they did for that CDM course.... They began doing it in multiple training centers and took a higher capacity to each class...... I will keep at it and somebody will get pissed off with me bugging them and do do something for me......( I hope)

gccrowley1

Any idea what date this starts if the interview is early next month?????

gccrowley1

Also any body any rough ideas of salaries in this field, or would emigration be better after the course is complete...???

Ging Ging

It starts next month too. I think its a week or so after.

gccrowley1

Ging Ging wrote: »

It starts next month too. I think its a week or so after.

So it's must be starting towards the end of the month cause my "interview" is on 11th and was told its for Upcoming course. "Great" , stuck in poxy fas full time all summer....any idea if the certification is well recognised or would it be worth f-all compared to somebody served there time in instrumentation... I mean there can't be a huge amount more then an electrical apprenticeship , and I know some lads might bite my head off for saying that but we don't all know what exact field all of us have been in over the years..... It's all in the name " Electrical & Instrumentation"..... Can there really be all that much extra involved ..... If your a complete novice fair enough but some of us know a thing or two.....we're no honours degree engineers but come on....10 weeks full time for a time served electrician has to be worth a decent qualification to us??????

Ging Ging

You fairly beat your way up that waiting list gccrowley1!
As for the course I don't know very much on what it will involve. Its not going to cover a full apprenticeship or half of one. 10 weeks does not equal 4 years, but hopefully it will be worthwhile. It does seem to be respected by anyone I've asked about it. The certification is a City & Guilds in working with instrumentation and control systems. I'd prefer a City and Guilds cert to a FETAC 5 or 6 to be honest, as it could be verifed internationally quite easily.

FAS website lists the modules as;
BASIC ELECTRONICS - INSTRUMENTATION UPSKILLING
INDUSTRIAL FLOW MEASUREMENT
INDUSTRIAL LEVEL MEASUREMENT
INDUSTRIAL PRESSURE MEASUREMENT
INDUSTRIAL TEMPERATURE MEASUREMENT

but I think the Nutty M gave a better insight on whats covered in it, earlier in this thread.

2011

gccrowley1 wrote: »

So it's must be starting towards the end of the month cause my "interview" is on 11th and was told its for Upcoming course.

Congratulations.
A very good decision IMHO that will make you far more employable.

I mean there can't be a huge amount more then an electrical apprenticeship

There is, believe me. Although I am not intimately familiar with this particular course this is the area that I work in, there is only so much that you can learn in 10 weeks.

10 weeks full time for a time served electrician has to be worth a decent qualification to us??????

If you apply yourself you will learn a lot in 10 weeks, but there will still be plenty to learn. As with many courses if you can use it to get your foot in the door with the right company most knowledge will be gained from hands on experience and from working with some "old salts".

Working in the field of instrumentation leads most people to work either the pharmaceutical sector or oil & gas.
This in turn opens up the whole word of the ATEX directive, electrical equipment in hazardous areas, intrinsically safe instrumentation and much more specialised work.
I would not expect these three areas to be covered to a basic level in Baldoyle, however they are areas that most experienced instrument craftsmen would be very familiar with. So yes, there is a lot to learn

I have some great notes, and "real life" documentation.
If you need anything during the course PM me.

Congratulations again and best of luck!

gccrowley1

Ging Ging wrote: »

You fairly beat your way up that waiting list gccrowley1!
As for the course I don't know very much on what it will involve. Its not going to cover a full apprenticeship or half of one. 10 weeks does not equal 4 years, but hopefully it will be worthwhile. It does seem to be respected by anyone I've asked about it. The certification is a City & Guilds in working with instrumentation and control systems. I'd prefer a City and Guilds cert to a FETAC 5 or 6 to be honest, as it could be verifed internationally quite easily.

FAS website lists the modules as;
BASIC ELECTRONICS - INSTRUMENTATION UPSKILLING
INDUSTRIAL FLOW MEASUREMENT
INDUSTRIAL LEVEL MEASUREMENT
INDUSTRIAL PRESSURE MEASUREMENT
INDUSTRIAL TEMPERATURE MEASUREMENT

but I think the Nutty M gave a better insight on whats covered in it, earlier in this thread.

Waiting list....... What waiting list! Haha haha .... Anyway, once the certification will stand for something I'm happy,... Hopefully they can squeeze as much as possible into them ten weeks.... At least it's a start and the road to more and more courses....

gccrowley1

2011 wrote: »

Congratulations.
A very good decision IMHO that will make you far more employable.



There is, believe me. Although I am not intimately familiar with this particular course this is the area that I work in, there is only so much that you can learn in 10 weeks.



If you apply yourself you will learn a lot in 10 weeks, but there will still be plenty to learn. As with many courses if you can use it to get your foot in the door with the right company most knowledge will be gained from hands on experience and from working with some "old salts".

Working in the field of instrumentation leads most people to work either the pharmaceutical sector or oil & gas.
This in turn opens up the whole word of the ATEX directive, electrical equipment in hazardous areas, intrinsically safe instrumentation and much more specialised work.
I would not expect these three areas to be covered to a basic level in Baldoyle, however they are areas that most experienced instrument craftsmen would be very familiar with. So yes, there is a lot to learn

I have some great notes, and "real life" documentation.
If you need anything during the course PM me.

Congratulations again and best of luck!

Cheers!!!! I really just want to learn as much as possible in this course, I know it's not going to cover everything but once all the basics are covered in great detail I would be happy.... As with any subject nobody can know everything about it , we are all still learning and always will be , it's just a way of life... At the moment once I get to know all I can about basic instrumentation it is a step on the ladder to specialise in a specific area later on ,like you said....
Did you do a degree or how did you get into it.... ??? You seem to be a wealth of knowledge ..... Much appreciated mate ,thanks

HoggyRS

gccrowley1 wrote: »

So it's must be starting towards the end of the month cause my "interview" is on 11th and was told its for Upcoming course. "Great" , stuck in poxy fas full time all summer....any idea if the certification is well recognised or would it be worth f-all compared to somebody served there time in instrumentation... I mean there can't be a huge amount more then an electrical apprenticeship , and I know some lads might bite my head off for saying that but we don't all know what exact field all of us have been in over the years..... It's all in the name " Electrical & Instrumentation"..... Can there really be all that much extra involved ..... If your a complete novice fair enough but some of us know a thing or two.....we're no honours degree engineers but come on....10 weeks full time for a time served electrician has to be worth a decent qualification to us??????

The electrical and instrumentation apprenticeship phases actually spend more time on the instrumentation side of things than electrical side so its not really a case of it just being a cake walk once you know about electrical.

gccrowley1

2011 wrote: »

Degree, worked as an instrumentation technician for a few years previous to that.

You sure are the one to answer a question or two for us novices so!..... Don't worry , I will surely be in touch once I start the course.....

gccrowley1

HoggyRS wrote: »

The electrical and instrumentation apprenticeship phases actually spend more time on the instrumentation side of things than electrical side so its not really a case of it just being a cake walk once you know about electrical.

So did I make the wrong decision serving my time as an electrician.... If I had done an electrical & instrumentation apprenticeship would I have covered the same as just an electrical apprenticeship plus the instrumentation or just basic electrical and lots of instrumentation.....I am confused now..... Just to let it be known I did serve my time as an electrician but the only "real" construction site I was on was T2 in Dublin airport ..... I have been in machine installation/fault finding/repair mostly print/print finishing and packaging machinery etc...... since 1999/2000 mainly...... Did a bit if new office/workshop installs , a bit of this and that general electrical work but we specialised in machinery.... May I should have signed up for electrical instrumentation instead ..... I honestly think majority of my experience would be more of that nature......

confusedeire

The E&I block releases are much longer than the electrical ones. And it covers about 80% of the electrical blocks and 80% of instrumentation blocks. It was devoloped for maintenance craft rather than installation.

2011

confusedeire wrote: »

The E&I block releases are much longer than the electrical ones. And it covers about 80% of the electrical blocks and 80% of instrumentation blocks. It was devoloped for maintenance craft rather than installation.

Interesting, how long are they?
Where did the 80% figure come from, is it just a guess?

confusedeire

2011 wrote: »

Interesting, how long are they?
Where did the 80% figure come from, is it just a guess?

The fas block is 7months block 4 is 6months and the last block is just over 3 months. It was a figures given to our class from the fas lead when I was there. It's a rough figure.

.G.

As opposed to 5 months(P2),11 weeks(P4) and 11 weeks(P6) for electrical. A fair amount more stuff involved with E&I obviously.

gccrowley1

How did everyone find the "group" interview..... I was not expecting that at all.....

HoggyRS

confusedeire wrote: »

The fas block is 7months block 4 is 6months and the last block is just over 3 months. It was a figures given to our class from the fas lead when I was there. It's a rough figure.

7 months for phase 4 too I think. Doing phase 2 now in Cork and its heavy out, supposedly alot tougher than the electrical course(though im not sure as obviously none of us in the e&I phase 2 have seen what the sparks are doing in their phase2). Just at the end of 6 weeks of electronics, i hope the sparks are subjected to this as its absolute torturous ****e! fingers crossed for them practical exams now. Our phase 2 is split into electronics 6 weeks, electrical 10 weeks and instrumentation 12 weeks, so possibly a bit more of a foucs on instruments.

confusedeire

HoggyRS wrote: »

7 months for phase 4 too I think. Doing phase 2 now in Cork and its heavy out, supposedly alot tougher than the electrical course(though im not sure as obviously none of us in the e&I phase 2 have seen what the sparks are doing in their phase2). Just at the end of 6 weeks of electronics, i hope the sparks are subjected to this as its absolute torturous ****e! fingers crossed for them practical exams now. Our phase 2 is split into electronics 6 weeks, electrical 10 weeks and instrumentation 12 weeks, so possibly a bit more of a foucs on instruments.

hows pat mac doing? is he still in charge of that in cork? building the bridge rectifier in electronics i sopoese. wait till electronics in carlow.. electrical is very easy. nearly all industrial build.

HoggyRS

confusedeire wrote: »

hows pat mac doing? is he still in charge of that in cork? building the bridge rectifier in electronics i sopoese. wait till electronics in carlow.. electrical is very easy. nearly all industrial build.

Pat Mac still running the show alrite! haha right you are, ive a bridge rectifier sitting in front of me right now. Hate this electronics crap. Cant wait for electrical now, starting next week, actually stuff ive done/can do! Phase 2s not quite the breeze i was expecting, phase 4 and 6 will be a right bollocks i can only assume!

gccrowley1

Think I may have underestimated what the aul instrumentation entails. Anyway roll on Monday week so I can get stuck in.......... Turn into a sponge and soak every little thing up.....


I may be posting quite a few questions along the way, so be ready to start explaining stuff lads.....

crasy dash

All i can say is do your best and stick with it it will be well worth it trust me

I did e and i in baldoyle in got on ok passed everything grand, went to carlow arsed around and regret it ever sense i was young and foolish spent too much time out on the town acting the twat failed the instrumentation side it and never went back was in the boom period and ah sure i will get another job handy

If i had a chance again id settle down and do it regret every day since i gave up:mad:

gccrowley1

Anybody got an idea of hourly rate with Lotus technical services for instrument tech's.........nearly completed that course in baldoyle, received a call for interview and would like to know has anybody on here gone on to them after the course????

HoggyRS

gccrowley1 wrote: »

Anybody got an idea of hourly rate with Lotus technical services for instrument tech's.........nearly completed that course in baldoyle, received a call for interview and would like to know has anybody on here gone on to them after the course????

We're told in fás that instrument techs standard-ish hourly rate is 4 or 5 euro more than sparks. Or at least thats what they tell us to motivate us to focus

el diablo

HoggyRS wrote: »

We're told in fás that instrument techs standard-ish hourly rate is 4 or 5 euro more than sparks. Or at least thats what they tell us to motivate us to focus

So something around €16 to €17 per hour so. :P

DiscoReaper

The Instrumentation side can be quite detailed and complex, so don't be dismissive of it as an electrician thinking what more can it be

I come from an electrical background, but have worked in manufacturing maintenance for 20 odd years, as part of my role in some of these plants, instrumentation installation / commissioning / & calibration was part of my job
So whilst having no formal qualification in the area, I have had to learn it the hard way

Unfortunately now I find myself in a position that whilst knowing a vast majority of the material and understanding how to do it, I'm not in possession of formal quals and unable to find a job , so ..... at 45 yrs of age
I'm going back to school and have put my name on this legendary list :O

I'm familiar with the material and am looking foeward to learning from Larry McCormack all about 4 - 20mA and the other dark secerets

For anybody that's interested theres a world of opportunity with instrumentation, oil & gas in particular
for anybody interested in these areas , theres a few more costly courses to do
BOSSE
COMPEX
to name but 2

regarding LOTUS ..... they are a good place to gain experience and start off in, but are not renowned in the industry for paying top rates .... Edith Gerdner is their HR recruiter to contact if you feel you have what it takes .... its worth a try