Restrict A3 riders gears

12 sprocket

It seems that the A3 riders would benefit if they were restricted to a 53x 13. THe juniors are only allowed 53 x 14 and with the increased fitness levels they are dominating the A3 races.

53 x 11 is too high a gear for these races and the A3 riders would cope better and become better riders if their gear was restricted.

It would especially be of benefit when they move to A 1-2 as these races are generally faster and the then use of the 11 or 12 sprocket would be a good bridge between A3 and A 1-2 for the higher speed.

lennymc

or they could just change gear and pedal faster?

RJM85

12 sprocket wrote: »

It seems that the A3 riders would benefit if they were restricted to a 53x 13. THe juniors are only allowed 53 x 14 and with the increased fitness levels they are dominating the A3 races.

53 x 11 is too high a gear for these races and the A3 riders would cope better and become better riders if their gear was restricted.

It would especially be of benefit when they move to A 1-2 as these races are generally faster and the then use of the 11 or 12 sprocket would be a good bridge between A3 and A 1-2 for the higher speed.

Yep, you've nailed it. Those juniors are better solely because of the restricted gearing.

12 sprocket

RJM I did mention their increased fitness levels!

Pablo Rubio

Done the restricted gear thing as a schoolboy and junior. At this stage I think I'm capable of deciding for my self what gear to use & what my cadence should be.

morana

12 sprocket wrote: »

It seems that the A3 riders would benefit if they were restricted to a 53x 13. THe juniors are only allowed 53 x 14 and with the increased fitness levels they are dominating the A3 races.

53 x 11 is too high a gear for these races and the A3 riders would cope better and become better riders if their gear was restricted.

It would especially be of benefit when they move to A 1-2 as these races are generally faster and the then use of the 11 or 12 sprocket would be a good bridge between A3 and A 1-2 for the higher speed.

As somebody who was involved with development I would put it across the A1-Juniors tbh. Although I am known for my radical views but even if it werent adopted as a rule I think better pedalling would improve riders all round.

Good suggestion 12 but you will have to change your name to 14Sprocket!

killalanerr

but when you get a bit older you cant pedal as fast so 12s rule would have to be tweaked to allow over 50s use a 12, 12 your new rule is getting completed now :rolleyes:

Roger Hassenforder

And make them carry hods; think of the benifets when they take them off

RJM85

12 sprocket wrote: »

RJM I did mention their increased fitness levels!

But what evidence do you have that a) they win because they're aerobically fitter b) that fitness is caused by the gearing

DirkVoodoo

Take all the gears!

Next, take their freewheels!

Then take their brakes too!

Then the roads, make them race around in small enclosed loops!

And finally, we take their seams...so they can't whip it out when they're riding around their enclosed loops.

Pablo Rubio

Why not give the Juniors a wife ,3 kids and a full time job . That'll level the playing field:D

fondriest

It doesn't matter what gear I ride , I'll still be 39 with a full time job, 2 kids and about 4 or 5hrs a week to train . If riding a 53/13 will help me beat some of the best riders in the country bring it on .

morana

Pablo Rubio wrote: »

Why not give the Juniors a wife ,3 kids and a full time job . That'll level the playing field:D

...and a mistress in somecases

lennymc

fondriest wrote: »

It doesn't matter what gear I ride , I'll still be 39 with a full time job, 2 kids and about 4 or 5hrs a week to train . If riding a 53/13 will help me beat some of the best riders in the country bring it on .

but surely you have that allready?

fondriest

lennymc wrote: »

but surely you have that allready?

No . My block has a 23,21,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11 .

SShands

arent some the juniors near 8 stone in weight?

ie power to weight ratio 150% ?

especially when climbing, they have no competition.

and its like no commitments other than cycling !

?

fondriest

SShands wrote: »

arent some the juniors lie 8 stone weight?

ie power to weight ratio 150% ?

especially when climbing, they have no competition.

and its like no commitments other than cycling !

?

Yes and in fairness a lot of them have plenty of talent to go with it . To add insult to injury they take all the prizes and then most races have unplaced junior prizes . The A3 seniors are left fighting for scraps . I don't think there will be a huge amount promoted from A3 this year apart from the really strong guys .

Lumen

SShands wrote: »

arent some the juniors near 8 stone in weight?

ie power to weight ratio 150% ?

All kneel before the power of the 12 stones!

colm_gti

SShands wrote: »

arent some the juniors near 8 stone in weight?

Feic, I need to find a way to loose 5 stone by the weekend :pac:

dave2pvd

Seems like these 2 complaints have been trending on the racing threads of late:

* Less than optimal post-race food
* Skinny juniors that are too fast

I'm thinking there's an obvious conclusion to be drawn here, but can't quite grasp it

fondriest

dave2pvd wrote: »

Seems like these 2 complaints have been trending on the racing threads of late:

* Less than optimal post-race food
* Skinny juniors that are too fast

I'm thinking there's an obvious conclusion to be drawn here, but can't quite grasp it

Speaking of post race food , how does a Big Mac meal rate as recovery food ?

foxer3640

fondriest wrote: »

Speaking of post race food , how does a Big Mac meal rate as recovery food ?

Probably similar to a kfc bargain bucket

dave2pvd

fondriest wrote: »

Speaking of post race food , how does a Big Mac meal rate as recovery food ?

Excellent!

I raced yesterday. The organizer put on an impressive post-race spread: a very fancy pasta buffet accompanied by refreshments - which included beer and wine. All free.

While I was eating and drinking my fill, I noticed that the table next to us was populated by juniors. They were easily out-eating us 2 to 1.

ROK ON

^
these kids have fantastic metabolisms.
When i was 16 I ate everything that wasn't nailed down and I was a skinny ass mofo.

I now eat less but am fat as fook.
It took a while but it caught up with me.
I guess for the guys racing against them it will be a bit too long to wait until the juniors metabolism slows down and they get fat. I mean half of ye will be retired before then ;-)

buffalo

SShands wrote: »

and its like no commitments other than cycling

Do none of them go to school, or have homework or exams or anything like that? They have a great life altogether!

colm_gti

buffalo wrote: »

Do none of them go to school, or have homework or exams or anything like that? They have a great life altogether!

I'm assuming they don't have to worry about things like working to pay for the bikes they ride*, going out to buy food to eat, or cook it, and many of the other minor things that add up. They defintely don't have to worry about shaving their legs!

* I don't mean this in a jealous way, I think it's fantastic that there are development teams in place that provide the equipment these lads need to compete, I'm sure there's a chance their talent would be wasted if their parents couldn't afford to do so

buffalo

colm_gti wrote: »

I'm assuming they don't have to worry about things like working to pay for the bikes they ride*, going out to buy food to eat, or cook it, and many of the other minor things that add up. They defintely don't have to worry about shaving their legs!

There's a lot of assumptions there, that every junior gets a bike handed to them on a silver platter. Granted, their parents might cook for them, and contribute, but I don't think you can assume that none of them work at all.

colm_gti

buffalo wrote: »

There's a lot of assumptions there, that every junior gets a bike handed to them on a silver platter. Granted, their parents might cook for them, and contribute, but I don't think you can assume that none of them work at all.

Oh I know that, but at the same time, sport or no sport, how many lads did/do you know that worked during their leaving cert year? I'm a bad example as I worked, but very little

Plastik

How else could you have afforded to change your car every 3 months :pac:

colm_gti

Plastik wrote: »

How else could you have afforded to change your car every 3 months :pac:

Hahaha g'way, that was college

buffalo

colm_gti wrote: »

Oh I know that, but at the same time, sport or no sport, how many lads did/do you know that worked during their leaving cert year? I'm a bad example as I worked, but very little

Aye, but equate working with cycling. I don't think the Juniors' talent comes from a lot of free time. Maybe their schoolwork suffers due to training, but I'm sure most of them still have to do all those things we all had to do as kids - homework, study, possibly a bit of housework at the weekend. Or at least, I don't think anyone can assume otherwise.

Maybe wav1 could shed some light on the home life of a Junior?

colm_gti

buffalo wrote: »

Aye, but equate working with cycling. I don't think the Juniors' talent comes from a lot of free time. Maybe their schoolwork suffers due to training, but I'm sure most of them still have to do all those things we all had to do as kids - homework, study, possibly a bit of housework at the weekend. Or at least, I don't think anyone can assume otherwise.

Maybe wav1 could shed some light on the home life of a Junior?

Agree completely that you can't learn talent, it's something you either have or you don't, but having less other commitments would make working on aerobic fitness side of it a lot easier, again, I'm assuming.

Interested to hear what wav1 has to say on the matter alright, though I'm not sure his lads want their daily routines scrutinised

lennymc

buffalo wrote: »

Maybe wav1 could shed some light on the home life of a Junior?

wav1, the oldest junior in the bunch...

wav1

buffalo wrote: »

Aye, but equate working with cycling. I don't think the Juniors' talent comes from a lot of free time. Maybe their schoolwork suffers due to training, but I'm sure most of them still have to do all those things we all had to do as kids - homework, study, possibly a bit of housework at the weekend. Or at least, I don't think anyone can assume otherwise.

Maybe wav1 could shed some light on the home life of a Junior?

Thanks for that Buffalo.Will try to throw some light on it for you[overlooking the fact that you shagged off on us last w/end to another province,but we'll forgive you as we have another promotion in July]

I have 2 sons who are currently juniors plus a 21 yr old A3 and an U12[the one who made that statement re attacking on the climbs to lennymc]
My 21 yr old son is doing his final law degree in May and has a part time job which keeps him and the bike going.The U12 just keeps getting recycled stuff which was top notch about 6 yrs earlier.
My 2 jun sons are currently 5th yr students and also have part time jobs in the evening in Supervalu.They both take their studies seriously and that takes time in the evenings also/They fit in a few 2 hr spins during the week but thats it,but they can still compete at a good level.They'll be finished school in about 4 weeks and the whole 2nd half of the season will be still in front of them.Training time will be stepped up then but only then.As far as the jun season is concerned the bigger events all come then,as the Jun Tour is in July and the Nat Champs in mid August.So theres no panic to be in top form in April.Its a long season.NOBODY has ever given any of the four of them anything for nothing.When frames etc were required to be upgraded we tended to build it in around Santa stuff as that way we weren't giving them a load of sh1t at Christmas and then having to do the frame stuff in January.The lads themselves buy all their own accessories and bits from their part time jobs and,and they save the euros from the prizes they pick up as well.I know one chap on the sponsored Jun team this year and up to now he has bought every bike himself from pocket money savings etc.All that said if anyone out there wants to sponsor team wav please feel free to PM me and I'll consider it.A huge help to me through the years has been Richie in Swords,who''looks after''me very well.Could be in jail without him..
One day in the J/T in 2009 my son crashed and wrecked a ridley excalibur frame.The very same night his rather annoyed dad drove under a barrier in to a car park and wrecked a Dolan frame[which just happened to be his own]Not a good day for the wavs.But sure we'll just plough on as I love the involvement with them.As a guy said to me one time,buying all this stuff is expensive,but its still cheaper than paying a solicitor to keep them out of jail if they were at other stuff

colm_gti

Well that's me told, thanks wav, my respect for these juniors has grown even more after reading that!

Chips Lovell

Threads about A3 racing are beginning to resemble the end of every Scooby Doo episode. "I would have gotten away with the win if it wasn't for those pesky kids".

doozerie

fondriest wrote: »

No . My block has a 23,21,11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11 .

You should move to 11speed, you could squeeze another 11 cog on there..

Peterx

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Threads about A3 racing are beginning to resemble the end of every Scooby Doo episode. "I would have gotten away with the win if it wasn't for those pesky kids".

or maybe - "I would have gotten away with my A3 points if C.I. had decided to make use of the video technology on some finish lines which they are perfectly happy to use to separate A1/A2 riders"

Beasty

Fortunately I have no ambitions of either A3 or junior racing, so hopefully am in the clear with my own "12 sprocket" in A4, Club League and Masters ...

spyderski

I get the feeling around here that A3 has become the new A4 ;-P

fondriest

doozerie wrote: »

You should move to 11speed, you could squeeze another 11 cog on there..

That might just be overdoing it .

dedocdude

Why not sure give the suggestion a go and see if it works - if not as an enforced racing rule, then just on your own training spins, league races that you use for training, that kind of thing - personally Im a fan of high cadence work, riding fixed in winter on a small gear i think really improves a rider.

As for the juniors kicking yer ar$e$, I doubt any rule changes will come in during the season, so Id say just get on with trying to beat them however ye manage it, ye werent complaining in the last few years when the crop of juniors wasn't nearly as plentiful or talented.

To go fast, you have to pedal fast.

lennymc

What cadence would you call 'pedaling fast'?
I got dropped on a climb earlier this year, and was spinning out (at my max cadence) on a 53/12 at about 130 rpm going down the other side trying to get back on. (Im not a climber). I would have loved an 11 for getting down that hill. I dunno if thats fast fast, but i couldn't go any faster.
As far as I know there are arguments for/against the fixed gear thing - yes it will increase your cadence, but it can make your pedal stroke sloppy.
Personally i have worked on getting my cadence up and spent most of the winter in the small ring. Also did/do some track riding. Thinking about it, it would be rare enough that I would use the 11 or 12 in a race unless I was going downhill.

buffalo

wav1 wrote: »

Thanks for that Buffalo.Will try to throw some light on it for you[overlooking the fact that you shagged off on us last w/end to another province,but we'll forgive you as we have another promotion in July]

Drogheda's just too flat for me wav! I did the Connor-Coombes last year as an A4, great race. And have to admire the amount of work that must go into hosting senior men's and ladies' races, and a youth stage race all in one weekend. But sadly, I chose hills this year. What's happening in July?

Thanks for the info, my respect for/awe of the juniors just increased a notch!

manwithaplan

Peterx wrote: »

or maybe - "I would have gotten away with my A3 points if C.I. had decided to make use of the video technology on some finish lines which they are perfectly happy to use to separate A1/A2 riders"

I must have missed that episode of Scooby Doo.

I get the feeling around here that A3 has become the new A4

I think A4 became the new A3 first. So A3 is the new A3.

dedocdude

lennymc wrote: »

What cadence would you call 'pedaling fast'?
I got dropped on a climb earlier this year, and was spinning out (at my max cadence) on a 53/12 at about 130 rpm going down the other side trying to get back on. (Im not a climber). I would have loved an 11 for getting down that hill. I dunno if thats fast fast, but i couldn't go any faster.
As far as I know there are arguments for/against the fixed gear thing - yes it will increase your cadence, but it can make your pedal stroke sloppy.
Personally i have worked on getting my cadence up and spent most of the winter in the small ring. Also did/do some track riding. Thinking about it, it would be rare enough that I would use the 11 or 12 in a race unless I was going downhill.

53/12 @ 130rpm - I make that 72kmph or there abouts. Tis not the juniors that lads should be complaining about so is it? ;-)

Pedaling fast, for me, do 2 hours fixed wheel spin on about 70 inch gear, about 115rpm - a few of those and you will have impressive 'souplesse'.

I haven't heard about riding fixed for winter training resulting in sloppy pedal stroke, only the oposite really, but not everyone buys into riding fixed, many consider it a load of old skool bull - so thats a topic for another day really

lennymc

dedocdude wrote: »

53/12 @ 130rpm - I make that 72kmph or there abouts. Tis not the juniors that lads should be complaining about so is it? ;-)

that was a typo
Looking back at strava, it looks like it was a 53/13 or 53/14 with about 100 - 110 rpm.

Ill get me coat

Ive read a few articles saying that fixed gear is good, and a few saying fixed gear is bad for pedal stroke.

petethedrummer

I just wonder what A3s are mashing around in 53x11. Ian Stannard was having awful difficult with it in Milan San Remo.

A3 must be some step up from A4.

Junior

My Home Life is none of yer business... Sheeesh.

kerryscoob

As a parent of one of current crop of juniors, the guys follow these threads and get a great kick out of the reading material.
We must remember these guys have been training since Oct. 5 times a week and once their season kicks off as Wav says this will up. Their season really ups from July. Watching my fella I'd be telling him to rest up but his spins may be 2hrs at a very easy heart rate.My tuppence worth, majority of 3s are flogging themselves to death training. But these juniors train consistent. As regards an easy life I think we always look back on school as been easy but nowadays peer, points, study, drinking culture are all massive distractions. These guys are driven to succeed, love the bike, the craic and the desire to hurt each other. Wav will testify these guys off the bike are messers and enjoy the banter.
Their parents are living the memories every Monday, the juniors have already moved on and planning the weekend ahead.

killalanerr

Just to be clear most if not all A3s have no problem riding against the young lads,the only problem we have is we find it hard to beat them but thats another problem !
i get a good kick out of riding with the next crop, there are not many sports where a 19yo can compete with a 50yo on equal terms,but let me decide my own gearing thank you very much
It would be nice if the points were given to the A3s i cant see Frank having any trouble sorting it out with his photo finish Cam,