Possible to add Twin LNB to Neighbours Dish? (With Pics)

blobert

Hi Guys,

I live in an apartment, the guy upstairs has a Grundig dish mounted on the wall just outside our window (I'd say it's pretty old):



Looking at the bottom of it (I know very little about this) it seems to be a single LNB:



Just wondering (with my neighbours permission obviously!) if it would be tricky to change this to a dual LNB and to run a cable into our apartment to a Freesat box or equivalent. Seeing as he's already got the dish fitted it would seem to make more sense, be less messy in terms of the number of dishes on the wall to just make use of this for both of us assuming it would work/not cause any problems to his service?

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks

St Senan

Health and safety issue straight away 1 dish feeding 2 different apartments whose electric is off 2 different meters.

Willby

blobert wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I live in an apartment, the guy upstairs has a Grundig dish mounted on the wall just outside our window (I'd say it's pretty old):



Looking at the bottom of it (I know very little about this) it seems to be a single LNB:



Just wondering (with my neighbours permission obviously!) if it would be tricky to change this to a dual LNB and to run a cable into our apartment to a Freesat box or equivalent. Seeing as he's already got the dish fitted it would seem to make more sense, be less messy in terms of the number of dishes on the wall to just make use of this for both of us assuming it would work/not cause any problems to his service?

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Hi,
Don't see why your suggestion wouldn't work. As a sweetener to your neighbour offer to change the lnb for a quad lnb. This would give you both two feeds which is necessary for freesat+ or Sky+. The + is the ability to record one channel; while watching another.

machiavellianme

Navarre wrote: »

Health and safety issue straight away 1 dish feeding 2 different apartments whose electric is off 2 different meters.

How would that be an issue? Its the same building and is presumably grounded to the same earth points?

blobert

Willby wrote: »

Hi,
Don't see why your suggestion wouldn't work. As a sweetener to your neighbour offer to change the lnb for a quad lnb. This would give you both two feeds which is necessary for freesat+ or Sky+. The + is the ability to record one channel; while watching another.

Thanks for that! Would it be relatively simple to swap the current LNB for a dual/quad one like this: http://www.satellitetv.ie/40mm_satellite_lnbs/technomate_twin_lnb

Am I likely to need to get a pro to do this or would it be a DIY job?

byte

machiavellianme wrote: »

How would that be an issue? Its the same building and is presumably grounded to the same earth points?

Both homes may not be sharing the same electrical phase for one.

It's just not the done thing to have two seperate homes sharing a dish in the way described. It would need to be earth bonded.

SPAWKER

blobert wrote: »

Thanks for that! Would it be relatively simple to swap the current LNB for a dual/quad one like this: http://www.satellitetv.ie/40mm_satellite_lnbs/technomate_twin_lnb

Am I likely to need to get a pro to do this or would it be a DIY job?

No its just a straight forward swap. But the LNB you have a link to wont suit the dish in the picture. You need a twin or quad LNB suitable for a Sky dish which can be got on Adverts.ie or on ebay.

blobert

SPAWKER wrote: »

No its just a straight forward swap. But the LNB you have a link to wont suit the dish in the picture. You need a twin or quad LNB suitable for a Sky dish which can be got on Adverts.ie or on ebay.

Thanks, a link to a suitable one would be much appreciated! I see some talk about only working with newer (2009 onwards) Sky dishes, the one outside definitely looks older than that!

St Senan

Consult an electrician because creating any sort of bridge between two separate power supplies isn’t a very sensible idea… You need to be very careful if you plan on doing this as the LNB will be receiving power from both boxes there may be a safety risk...

In fact, I'm not even sure that sharing such a device between two seperate electrical supplies is legal - I'm fairly sure it would contravene wiring regulations.
but again i recommend that you consult an electrician !

SPAWKER

http://www.adverts.ie/2428903

blobert wrote: »

Thanks, a link to a suitable one would be much appreciated! I see some talk about only working with newer (2009 onwards) Sky dishes, the one outside definitely looks older than that!

Link to quad LNB above.

The Cush

blobert wrote: »

a link to a suitable one would be much appreciated! I see some talk about only working with newer (2009 onwards) Sky dishes, the one outside definitely looks older than that!

http://www.tvtrade.ie/quad-lnb.html
http://www.tvtrade.ie/sky-mk4-to-mk3-lnb-legacy-adaptor.html

Note from that site: If the Quad LNB is required for a dish installed before June 2009 you will also need to purchase a Sky Legacy MK4 to MK3 LNB adaptor. (Note: old MK3 LNBs had 40mm diameter necks)

Liameter

That looks very much like an early (MK1) Channel Master dish with a Grundig LNB. If I'm right, a MK3 adapter won't fit. (Measure the arm.) You'll have to use a MK4 LNB (with spirit-level saddle) and bodge it somehow. Probably using self-tapping screws, once you've located the focal point.
See bottom of this page: http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/quad_sky_lnb.htm

Note, also, the comments about earth bonding. There IS a potential safety issue.


.

machiavellianme

byte wrote: »

Both homes may not be sharing the same electrical phase for one.

It's just not the done thing to have two seperate homes sharing a dish in the way described. It would need to be earth bonded.

I wouldnt imagine they're getting a 3 phase supply into a single building unless its a huge apartment complex? I appreciate the complexity if they were seperate buildings, but in this case they arent.

Liameter

I don't follow the logic. My friend had to have a 3 phase supply just for his kitchen!

In any case, I don't think it's a good idea to guess, when safety is involved. Get an electrician to earth-bond the LNB connections.

machiavellianme

machiavellianme wrote: »

I wouldnt imagine they're getting a 3 phase supply into a single building unless its a huge apartment complex? I appreciate the complexity if they were seperate buildings, but in this case they arent.

The thing is, you don't want to take the risk. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case.

The Cush

Liameter wrote: »

My friend had to have a 3 phase supply just for his kitchen!

Is he Swedish by any chance

stephendevlin

Dont know if this matters but on my Dm800 im sure I saw a "send power to LNB" option. How are those shared dishes on top of apartment complexes done? Must all be earthed accordingly?

banie01

stephendevlin wrote: »

Dont know if this matters but on my Dm800 im sure I saw a "send power to LNB" option. How are those shared dishes on top of apartment complexes done? Must all be earthed accordingly?

Those shared dishes all feed from quattro(usually, quads can be used to) LNB's to a multiswitch.
The multiswitch provides the LNB power and is the earth point usually(in single dwelling setups),.
If the switch is feeding multiple different dwellings then it would need to be earth bonded y an electrician before being safe to use.

@The OP bridging power supplies between 2 different apartments, even if via something as seemingly insignificant as a 5v draw LNB...
Is never safe, yes it might work incident free for years, but the chance of Overload and fire is to my mind always to great to be worth it.

MACHEAD

Not sure how the law works in regard to such things on your side of the border, but up here, building control would have a fit if you run a cable from a sat dish in another property into yours. And as a consequence if it's anything like up here (the north), you may find your home insurance voided.

blobert

Thanks Guys,

I think I won't bother if it's likely to cause problems/potentially be unsafe.

Thanks for the suggestions in any case!

eireannBEAR

surely you could just add a twin splitter to the LNB?? all you need to do is screw out his wire, screw in the splitter and now you have two cable sockets...easy!!! they are very cheap and at least you wouldnt have to go to the trouble of messing around with a new LNB.

Liameter

Splitters work with QUATTRO LNBs but not with any form of "universal" LNB.

PogMoThoin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

surely you could just add a twin splitter to the LNB?? all you need to do is screw out his wire, screw in the splitter and now you have two cable sockets...easy!!! they are very cheap and at least you wouldnt have to go to the trouble of messing around with a new LNB.

Eh, no you couldn't, you cannot split a satellite signal like this

eireannBEAR

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Eh, no you couldn't, you cannot split a satellite signal like this

i completely disagree lads as i have seen and used an LNB with this set up my exes brother had his dish set up like this. he had two sky boxes hooked up to an old one socket LNB,im not being ignorant or rude im just stating facts.

PogMoThoin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

i completely disagree lads as i have seen and used an LNB with this set up my exes brother had his dish set up like this. he had two sky boxes hooked up to an old one socket LNB,im not being ignorant or rude im just stating facts.

Nonsense, it will not work this way. The satellite box feeds the LNB with power and decides which polarity and frequency. The only situation that this will work in is for Saorsat, where there is only one transponder on the satellite and one polarity, it will not work for Astra 28 as there are lots of transponders with different frequencies and polarities. You would be limited to the same restrictions if you used the loopthrough, to channels on the same transponder as the other box

eireannBEAR

just asked him how he did it,this is for the OP,you can do this but first you have to go in to LNB settings and switch power off or your neighbor can do this,the old LNB can only take power from one box,so if you consider this option its best he swithes the LNB power off from his box,as the box powering the LNB must at least be on stand by 24x7 for this to work.

eireannBEAR

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Nonsense, it will not work this way. The satellite box feeds the LNB with power and decides which polarity and frequency. The only situation that this will work in is for Saorsat, where there is only one transponder on the satellite and one polarity, it will not work for Astra 28 as there are lots of transponders with different frequencies and polarities. You would be limited to the same restrictions if you used the loopthrough, to channels on the same transponder as the other box

ba..... go try it first,i dont care what you have read etc,i have seen it working with my own eyes.

PogMoThoin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

ba..... go try it first,i dont care what you have read etc,i have seen it working with my own eyes.

It will not work, because the polarity is set by the voltage being sent to the LNB by the satellite box, 18 Volts for horizontal polarity, and 13V for vertical polarity.

Stop posting shíte, this is something you know absolutely nothing about (and either does your armchair enthusiast advisor)

http://www.satcruiser.com/understanding_polarity.htm

user1842

banie01 wrote: »

If the switch is feeding multiple different dwellings then it would need to be earth bonded y an electrician before being safe to use.

How would you earth bond a setup like this. Make sure both apartments share a common earth?

Peter Rhea

eireannBEAR wrote: »

i completely disagree lads as i have seen and used an LNB with this set up my exes brother had his dish set up like this. he had two sky boxes hooked up to an old one socket LNB,im not being ignorant or rude im just stating facts.

It will work to an extent & if you're willing to accept the limitations involved, fair enough.

Basically, the box providing 18V to select a horizontal channel, or 22 kHz tone for a high-band channel will always 'win' when it comes to selecting polarity & band. The other box will then be limited to channels on the same band and/or polarity.

There's four different modes on modern Ku-band LNBs:

13V, 22kHz off: 10.7-11.7GHz vertical
13V, 22kHz on: 11.7-12.75GHz vertical
18V, 22kHz off: 10.7-11.7GHz horizontal
18V, 22kHz on: 11.7-12.75GHz horizontal

If you split the cable, then each box will only be able to access channels on one of these modes. The box providing the power would dictate which mode is used.

It's not something I've read - I actually tried it out of interest.

eireannBEAR

Peter Rhea wrote: »

@eireannBEAR: there's a 'delete post' option. Also a 'close account' option . . .

peter you really are a spiteful hateful person.

all i can say is i have seen this working.

listermint

Install a second dish ?



- Profit!

Peter Rhea

eireannBEAR wrote: »

peter you really are a spiteful hateful person.

all i can say is i have seen this working.

Yes, & I explained in a previous post how it would actually work, within limits. What's spiteful or hateful about that?

PogMoThoin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

all i can say is i have seen this working.

Depends on what you call working, it's already been explained to you but you obviously don't understand (and therefore shouldn't be posting in this thread). It will be limited to displaying channels on the same group as the box providing power and not the full range of channels

eireannBEAR

pog you claimed it was absolute nonsense but now you admit it will display limited channels? maybe you shouldnt be posting in this thread. pot,kettle and all that malarkey

PogMoThoin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

pog you claimed it was absolute nonsense but now you admit it will display limited channels? maybe you shouldnt be posting in this thread. pot,kettle and all that malarkey

I don't call having very limited channels governed by your original box working, it is not a standard satellite install and it would not be possible for anyone to sell a system like this as it does not work, otherwise Sky would be installing this way.


Edit: And if you look back at my post you'll see

PogMoThoin wrote: »

You would be limited to the same restrictions if you used the loopthrough, to channels on the same transponder as the other box

But you since you have no idea this went over your head

eireannBEAR

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Eh, no you couldn't, you cannot split a satellite signal like this

thats the post i was more interested in before got you a chance to google the topic.

PogMoThoin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

thats the post i was more interested in before got you a chance to google the topic.

What, you're still maintaining you can?

The Cush

eireannBEAR wrote: »

surely you could just add a twin splitter to the LNB?? all you need to do is screw out his wire, screw in the splitter and now you have two cable sockets...easy!!! they are very cheap and at least you wouldnt have to go to the trouble of messing around with a new LNB.

The only way to independently split the signal from an LNB to more than one satellite receiver is to use a multi-output LNB or quad/quattro LNB feeding a multiswitch.

Sky dishes come with quad-output LNBs to feed twin-tuner Sky+ receivers i.e. the signal is split in the LNB on the dish.

Edit: Forgot to add the Fibre Optic LNB option

stephendevlin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

i completely disagree lads as i have seen and used an LNB with this set up my exes brother had his dish set up like this. he had two sky boxes hooked up to an old one socket LNB,im not being ignorant or rude im just stating facts.

He wasn't watching different sky channels on both boxes at the same time I can tell you that much.

Peter Rhea

There would be a limited choice of channels.

If only one box is powering the lnb, the choice will be dictated by what's being watched on this box. If both are providing power, the higher voltage & band switching tone will always win out.

eireannBEAR

stephendevlin wrote: »

He wasn't watching different sky channels on both boxes at the same time I can tell you that much.

he was yeah,your completely wrong in this statement,after speaking to him again it seems on one box he can pick up vintage tv and on the other he cant,the channels are split over the two boxes which is a load of @~%*!! one of the boxes receives a lot more channels than the other. but neither have the full compliment of sky FTA stations.

Peter Rhea

eireannBEAR, none of this matters in the context of this thread. Even if the lnb power of blobert's box is turned off, there still exists what amounts to a physical connection between the electric wiring in both properties.

PogMoThoin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

he was yeah,your completely wrong in this statement,after speaking to him again it seems on one box he can pick up vintage tv and on the other he cant,the channels are split over the two boxes which is a load of @~%*!! one of the boxes receives a lot more channels than the other. but neither have the full compliment of sky FTA stations.

Not working then so

I think you owe everyone an apology for dragging this thread completely off topic with your nonsensical ramblings about your armchair enthusiast mate

watty

A shared dish needs a professionally inspected specially done Earth bonding. There can easily be 380V + AC between the two satellite receivers. They have internal capacitors from live and neutral to the chassis / LNB cable outer.

Multi-dwelling (shared dish or aerial) installs must only be done by qualified to people with properly done safety earth bonding or there is risk of fire or death from electric shock. The insurance in BOTH apartments would be invalid.

Properly done a Quad (or Octo LNB) can feed two (or four) Sky+ or Sky HD boxes. A proper distribution system can feed 1000 PVRs from one Quattro LNB safely.

Sharing a dish between premises (even two side by side apartments) is NOT a DIY activity due to safety issues.

STB

eireannBEAR wrote: »

he was yeah,your completely wrong in this statement,after speaking to him again it seems on one box he can pick up vintage tv and on the other he cant,the channels are split over the two boxes which is a load of @~%*!! one of the boxes receives a lot more channels than the other. but neither have the full compliment of sky FTA stations.

Em you do know that this is a technical forum with technical members etc.

Not having a go or anything but you are talking some nonsense buddy.

To go back to the original question by the OP. Its not a good idea to share a dish in this way. In the UK a qualified electrician must certify the earth bonding in these scenarios.

Anyhow. It would be cheaper to just install your own Sky dish. They are about €25 with the Quad lnb.

stephendevlin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

he was yeah,your completely wrong in this statement,after speaking to him again it seems on one box he can pick up vintage tv and on the other he cant,the channels are split over the two boxes which is a load of @~%*!! one of the boxes receives a lot more channels than the other. but neither have the full compliment of sky FTA stations.

FTA is not SKY Ya ejit

eireannBEAR

stephendevlin wrote: »

FTA is not SKY Ya ejit

you are the ejit if you thought that was implied.

stephendevlin

eireannBEAR wrote: »

you are the ejit if you thought that was implied.

Well answer my question properly! tell him to put on sky sports 1 on both boxes and report back

eireannBEAR

stephen this was related to a dish,where are you getting a sky sports subscription out of???

i will admit my advice was flawed,but your responses were totally out of whack you seem to be impaired or flustered with your attitude and questions.