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Bank manager jailed for €450k theft over 19 years

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    #32
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Him and his ilk should be destitute.

    From the sounds of things, he is. He's lost his home, family, job & pension. Given his age, upon leaving prison, he will spend the rest of his life living off social, with no hope of ever improving his situation.


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    #33
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    dotsman wrote: »
    From the sounds of things, he is. He's lost his home, family, job & pension. Given his age, upon leaving prison, he will spend the rest of his life living off social, with no hope of ever improving his situation.

    Presume that it's his linkdin account that's still active. 38 years banking, €3m in property investments and.....
    None of the cash was recovered but ACC bank fully reimbursed Mr Ryan and the Flanagans.

    None of the cash recovered?


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    #34
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    squod wrote: »
    Presume that it's his linkdin account that's still active. 38 years banking, €3m in property investments and.....



    None of the cash recovered?

    The €3m was a failure - it's down that black hole the stolen money went.

    I can only go on what was written in the article, but is sounds like his life is pretty much over now. I don't see what prison is going to do except waste a $hitload of taxpayers money.


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    #35
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    squod wrote: »
    Presume that it's his linkdin account that's still active. 38 years banking, €3m in property investments and.....



    None of the cash recovered?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but as the bank has been reinbursed there is no need for the cash to be recovered.

    The bank has paid those who lost monies; and he has reinbursed the bank by surrending his pension which covers more than the bankhas paid out.

    Does this not mean the the balance sheet is balanced?


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    #36
    humbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong but as the bank has been reinbursed there is no need for the cash to be recovered.

    The bank has paid those who lost monies; and he has reinbursed the bank by surrending his pension which covers more than the bankhas paid out.

    Does this not mean the the balance sheet is balanced?
    Think it said in the article that his pension is worth €600k.


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    #37
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    humbert wrote: »
    Think it said in the article that his pension is worth €600k.

    That is my understanding and he stole 450k.


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    #38
    johnnydeep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭johnnydeep


    dotsman wrote: »
    The €3m was a failure - it's down that black hole the stolen money went.

    I can only go on what was written in the article, but is sounds like his life is pretty much over now. I don't see what prison is going to do except waste a $hitload of taxpayers money.
    its a deterent to stop others. why do some people believe that only working class people should get jail sentences


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    #39
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    johnnydeep wrote: »
    its a deterent to stop others. why do some people believe that only working class people should get jail sentences
    How do we know that this guy wasn't working class? Who said anything about working class anyway? For me, prison should be for violent offenders and repeat/habitual offenders, not a first offence for a financial crime where the victims were fully compensated.

    As for a deterrent - what can be more of a deterrent than losing your family, home, job (knowing you'll never have any of those things again)?

    All his victims were repaid. The only person to lose out here was this guy, and he lost out big time. That's a pretty big deterrent in my books.


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    #40
    johnnydeep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭johnnydeep


    dotsman wrote: »
    How do we know that this guy wasn't working class? Who said anything about working class anyway? For me, prison should be for violent offenders and repeat/habitual offenders, not a first offence for a financial crime where the victims were fully compensated.

    As for a deterrent - what can be more of a deterrent than losing your family, home, job (knowing you'll never have any of those things again)?

    All his victims were repaid. The only person to lose out here was this guy, and he lost out big time. That's a pretty big deterrent in my books.

    prison at a guess


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    #41
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    johnnydeep wrote: »
    prison at a guess

    As is being slowly boiled alive in a large pot, castrated with a rusty blade, and being hung drawn and quartered, but I think most intelligent people would consider them slightly over-the-top.

    Do you honestly believe we should spend €260,000 on keeping him in prison for the next 4 years? Do you honestly think that a person who doesn't physically hurt anyone, gives every single thing they own, and ever will own, to fully compensate the victims and it is their first offence, should be sent away for 4 years?


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    #42
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Odysseus wrote: »

    Does this not mean the the balance sheet is balanced?

    In the same boat as you. Can't make out much of what went on.


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    #43
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    johnnydeep wrote: »
    prison at a guess

    If you think prison is a bigger deterrent than losing your family, home and job then you must live a fairly lonely life.


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    #44
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    squod wrote: »
    In the same boat as you. Can't make out much of what went on.

    But you want him to be punished further is that correct. From what I can see just in what is here I am happy with his case. His life is destoried, I can't see how justice is served by trying to punish him more.


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    #45
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Odysseus wrote: »
    But you want him to be punished further is that correct. From what I can see just in what is here I am happy with his case. His life is destoried, I can't see how justice is served by trying to punish him more.

    Many criminals end up destroying their own lives?

    My POV;

    Judge Nolan accepted that for a man such as Mitchell, prison would be difficult but said he must impose a somewhat harsh term "for general deterrence and punishment

    This is unreasonable. Multiple counts of theft, a career criminal, huge amounts of cash, exploiting a trusted position etc. What the actual fuhk is going on in our courts??


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    #46
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    If you think prison is a bigger deterrent than losing your family, home and job then you must live a fairly lonely life.

    Very few of the people who played a part in the economic catastrophe will end up destitute (which they absolutely should). The system is set up in such a way that the vast majority of people involved in such economic conflagrations walk away from the ashes with luxury homes, gilt-edged pensions and trust funds that will ensure they live out their lives in luxury.

    In the absence of a retributive model where these people can be pursued for everything they have a custodial sentence seems like the only way of deterring such behaviour.


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    #47
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    dotsman wrote: »
    How do we know that this guy wasn't working class? Who said anything about working class anyway? For me, prison should be for violent offenders and repeat/habitual offenders, not a first offence for a financial crime where the victims were fully compensated.

    As for a deterrent - what can be more of a deterrent than losing your family, home, job (knowing you'll never have any of those things again)?

    All his victims were repaid. The only person to lose out here was this guy, and he lost out big time. That's a pretty big deterrent in my books.
    Prison, on top of all that, is a bigger deterrent.

    You don't treat one class of criminals, differently from the rest; prison is not only about locking away violent offenders, it is about removing peoples freedom/liberty for their crimes.

    It's a simple case of equal application of the law, of not having a two-tier justice system. If people think prison should be reformed, so that non-violent offenders should not be put in prisons with violent offenders, that's grand (it is a different discussion though), but their freedom/liberty must be removed as punishment (even if only in a limited way, such as the article I posted earlier of the Norway prison camp), otherwise we do not have nearly enough of a deterrent.
    dotsman wrote: »
    As is being slowly boiled alive in a large pot, castrated with a rusty blade, and being hung drawn and quartered, but I think most intelligent people would consider them slightly over-the-top.

    Do you honestly believe we should spend €260,000 on keeping him in prison for the next 4 years? Do you honestly think that a person who doesn't physically hurt anyone, gives every single thing they own, and ever will own, to fully compensate the victims and it is their first offence, should be sent away for 4 years?
    Except nobody is advocating torture. If imprisoning him serves as a deterrent (for a society with, in my view, a lax attitude to ethics/fraud when it comes to finance/business), then yes, he should be sent away for much longer than 4 years, and everyone like him given the same treatment.

    Financial crimes, on a wide scale, can damage entire economies and societies much more than a guy with a shotgun, holding up a bank; there are known examples of fraud in our financial system, which contributed to the current crisis, and which have gone unpunished; that is an extremely dangerous message to give out, letting financial crimes go unpunished, as it perpetuates a lax attitude to the law and crime in finance overall, which may well lead us into further economic crisis in the future.


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    #48
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Odysseus wrote: »
    But you want him to be punished further is that correct. From what I can see just in what is here I am happy with his case. His life is destoried, I can't see how justice is served by trying to punish him more.
    He screwed up his own life, which was built partially upon the profits of his fraud; that's on him, and is not something the court has to consider.

    Considering the amount of damage unchecked fraud can do to society and entire economies, it needs a very harsh deterrent, and considering the ease with which fraudulently obtained finances can be concealed in offshore banking, the deterrent these guys need to face is loss of their personal liberty/freedoms, by being put in prison.

    This does not have to mean the kind of prison populated with violent offenders, that leads to personal harm or recidivism and such, but his liberty must be removed as punishment (just like it would be for anyone else who commits a crime), and if there are no prisons in Ireland which have a more appropriate setting for these types of non-violent criminals (such as the one I linked earlier from Norway), then that is a reason for reform of the prison system, not for having a two-tier justice system where fraud is treated lightly.


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    #49
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    Prison is completely pointless in a case like this and would serve no purpose. Prison should only be used to protect the general public from violent offenders..


    Disagree totally . & the more people who are let off in our cushy jail " system" the more are encouraged to assault, steal, break into people's homes & leave them living in fear etc. I doubt that the 78 year old man this person stole from & cheated wanted to spend his late 70's in & out of solicitors offices & garda stations, or in banks trying to figure out where his money had gone, or in busses & cars up & down from Kilrush in Clare being involved in witness & bank audits, & bank meetings fir his " missing" " investment " / theft by bank manager. I doubt he welcomed dealing with internal investigators & the stress of it all, giving statements & testifying -not to mention his lifes savings being missing - stolen- and not knowing until years after if anything could be done to recover it, or if like so many other crimes it would simply be listed as " not recovered".

    Your post shows a shocking disregard for the victims of this crime.


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    #50
    johnnydeep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭johnnydeep


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    If you think prison is a bigger deterrent than losing your family, home and job then you must live a fairly lonely life.
    see for me to believe that he lost his family, home and job, I would have to take the word of a convicted robber. who stole enough money to cover life saving operations, feed starving families. etc.


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