15% Of Your Salary To Be Compulsorily Confiscated

SafeSurfer

A report commissioned by the Department of Social Protection has recommended that workers currently without a pension be forced to make compulsory pension contributions of up to 15% of their salary.

For the many workers currently struggling to meet mortgage and childcare costs and pay the property tax, new €180 communications tax, water charges, septic tax charges etc, will this be a charge too far?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/million-of-us-face-paying-15pc-of-wages-into-pensions-29205237.html

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SafeSurfer wrote: »

A report commissioned by the Department of Social Protection has recommended that workers currently without a pension be forced to make compulsory pension contributions of up to 15% of their salary.

For the many workers currently struggling to meet mortgage and childcare costs and pay the property tax, new €180 communications tax, water charges, septic tax charges etc, will this be a charge too far?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/million-of-us-face-paying-15pc-of-wages-into-pensions-29205237.html

Vested interests advocate Government be a b*tch for vested interests shock.

If I had put the equivalent of my wages after tax under the mattress instead of a pension I would have been better off.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

SafeSurfer wrote: »

A report commissioned by the Department of Social Protection has recommended that workers currently without a pension be forced to make compulsory pension contributions of up to 15% of their salary.

For the many workers currently struggling to meet mortgage and childcare costs and pay the property tax, new €180 communications tax, water charges, septic tax charges etc, will this be a charge too far?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/million-of-us-face-paying-15pc-of-wages-into-pensions-29205237.html

They were thinking about bringing the similar law in in Germany, but shelved it when they realises it would put most freelancers out of work and on the dole. They wanted 300 euro from everyone, which is a bit liess than one third of the income a freelancer needs to survive in Berlin, and would have meant a lot of them having to take welfare in order to get an income increase.

I think people should have some sort of pension security, but this ind of think will just slow down any economic recovery.

Assuming you can pick out which plan to join, 15% seems high but the pyramid scheme of state pension is going to collapse soon enough, so it might be best to get it started now
It's bizarre they don't have it set by age bands though, or did I miss something? 15% for a 20 year old and 15% for a 50 year old are two very different things in terms of adequacy of pension provision

Red Kev

Two points.

1. Where is the guarantee? Do I give it to the state with a guaranteed return when I retire or does it go to some private pension fund to gamble with, with no guarantees of any of it being left when I retire.

2. It simply reduces massively the amount of disposable income that people will have. Less disposable income means less spending means less jobs, which means more people on the dole, leading to higher taxes to pay for those on welfare, leading to even less disposable income meaning less spending etc etc etc etc.

Whoever thought up this plan in the EU is well in the pockets of some lobbyist working for the financial sector.

Red Kev

Red Kev wrote: »

Two points.

1. Where is the guarantee? Do I give it to the state with a guaranteed return when I retire or does it go to some private pension fund to gamble with, with no guarantees of any of it being left when I retire.

2. It simply reduces massively the amount of disposable income that people will have. Less disposable income means less spending means less jobs, which means more people on the dole, leading to higher taxes to pay for those on welfare, leading to even less disposable income meaning less spending etc etc etc etc.

Whoever thought up this plan in the EU is well in the pockets of some lobbyist working for the financial sector.

It's private. If you are concerned about security, stick it in a cash/bond fund or something. Beware of charges though

Spending bubbles aren't the only way to growth

Esoteric_

My wages are so shít that I make about 270 euro a week for full time work. How in the name of god am I expected to pay rent, bills, travel to and from work AND give 15% of my wages to a pension fund, too? Fcuk that. When I finish college and get into a career as opposed to a job, then I'll pay my pension. Til then, the Government can fcuk right off.

Seriously though, those that don't have a pension plan, am I expected to pay it for them ?

Or could we argue that we pay our taxes through our (working) life and so we get some of it back.

So what about those on the dole 20 odd years or abusing the health system to get disability ? and we all know people abusing the system and I'm not talking about the genuine unemployed that have been working and can't find work at this time but I know people on the dole for 13 years and not working all through the boom and blaming foreign workers for taking all the jobs.

Why should we pay for those people ?

Esoteric_

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously though, those that don't have a pension plan, am I expected to pay it for them ?

Or could we argue that we pay our taxes through our (working) life and so we get some of it back.

So what about those on the dole 20 odd years or abusing the health system to get disability ? and we all know people abusing the system and I'm not talking about the genuine unemployed that have been working and can't find work at this time but I know people on the dole for 13 years and not working all through the boom and blaming foreign workers for taking all the jobs.

Why should we pay for those people ?

So, should we all be paying a pension from the moment we start work? When I was 15 and in my first retail job, I didn't even know I was entitled to holiday pay, nevermind thinking about a feckin' pension!

Mr Benevolent

Misleading title, OP. Are you an Indo journalist?

SafeSurfer

It seems like the financial services sector are in for a windfall yet again. They will have billions of citizens hard earned cash to gamble and charge fees on a few short years after causing the worst recession since the 1930's. The future looks increasingly dystopian.

smash

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously though, those that don't have a pension plan, am I expected to pay it for them ?

Most people pay for it themselves throughout their lives:

The State Pension (Contributory) is paid to people from the age of 66 who have enough Irish social insurance contributions.

Most employers and employees (over 16 years of age and under 66) pay social insurance contributions into the national Social Insurance Fund (SIF). In general, the payment of social insurance is compulsory.

Esoteric_

Esoteric_ wrote: »

So, should we all be paying a pension from the moment we start work? When I was 15 and in my first retail job, I didn't even know I was entitled to holiday pay, nevermind thinking about a feckin' pension!

If you are in full time employment, then why shouldn't you pay for your pension ?

Sleepy

This will damage rather than enhance the finances of most. We're a nation with extraordinary levels of personal debt which many of us (myself included) are currently doing our best to repay.

Repaying a loan at (for simplicity's sake) 10% interest is better for an individual's future financial security than taking 15% of their income and investing it in a pension fund (most of which have struggled to keep up with inflation, never mind make a 10% return.

smurgen

bluewolf wrote: »

It's private. If you are concerned about security, stick it in a cash/bond fund or something. Beware of charges though

Spending bubbles aren't the only way to growth

it's not private if it's compolsory

Esoteric_

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are in full time employment, then why shouldn't you pay for your pension ?

I already pointed out that while I'm working full time, I'm not a high earner, so to break it down, here's a list of my income and outgoings.

I earn 270 a week before tax (sometimes less).

So, as I'm only paying USC at the moment, I come out with about 260.

Minus rent of 70 leaves 190.

Minus my share of heating/electric/internet (and yes, I'm aware net is a luxury, but it's in the house, so I have to contribute) - 30. Leaves 160.

Travel to and from work each day - 30. Leaves 130.

Medication I'm on for a chronic illness - 35. Leaves 95.

If I make my own lunch every day, 15. Leaves 80.

Food shopping (and I have allergies, so have to get some slightly more expensive products) - 35. Leaves 45.

Phone credit (I have to have this for work as I have to call my boss every night without fail, and ring customers, and he does not fund this) - 20. Leaves 25.

So, after my outgoings, I have an average of 25 per week. I quit smoking, I don't buy things I don't need. How am I supposed to afford to pay a pension right now? I also have to factor in saving for college out of that 25 per week.

hfallada

I think people should contribute to something their pension. Most low and middle income tax payer contribute nothing to their pensions and some how except to have a reason standing of living when they retire. Its not going to happen

Geuze

Esoteric_ wrote: »

I already pointed out that while I'm working full time, I'm not a high earner, so to break it down, here's a list of my income and outgoings.

I earn 270 a week before tax (sometimes less).

So, as I'm only paying USC at the moment, I come out with about 260.

Minus rent of 70 leaves 190.

Minus my share of heating/electric/internet (and yes, I'm aware net is a luxury, but it's in the house, so I have to contribute) - 30. Leaves 160.

Travel to and from work each day - 30. Leaves 130.

Medication I'm on for a chronic illness - 35. Leaves 95.

If I make my own lunch every day, 15. Leaves 80.

Food shopping (and I have allergies, so have to get some slightly more expensive products) - 35. Leaves 45.

Phone credit (I have to have this for work as I have to call my boss every night without fail, and ring customers, and he does not fund this) - 20. Leaves 25.

So, after my outgoings, I have an average of 25 per week. I quit smoking, I don't buy things I don't need. How am I supposed to afford to pay a pension right now? I also have to factor in saving for college out of that 25 per week.

You are already in a pension scheme.

You are in the PRSI system. As you earn under about 350 pw, your contribution is zero.

But you are credited with a PRSI contribution.

If you worked like this all your life, then conts = zero, but benefits = standard State Pension of approx 12k.

Redistribution from rich to poor.

Yes the contributory pension will only mean you get the state pension, but do people want to live off of that for the rest of their lives ? what will it be like or worth then ? what will the cost of living be ?

Or will we blame the state for not making us take out our own pension as we blame everyone else for our problems and never accept personal responsibility ?

Esoteric_

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes the contributory pension will only mean you get the state pension, but do people want to live off of that for the rest of their lives ? what will it be like or worth then ? what will the cost of living be ?

Or will we blame the state for not making us take out our own pension as we blame everyone else for our problems and never accept personal responsibility ?

Nope, I don't want to live off of the state pension for life, but as I already pointed out in a previous post, once I finish college, if I am lucky enough to get a job in my chosen field (the field I'm entering has a lot of well paid jobs available, so I should get one), I'll be contributing to a private pension then, when I can afford it without going without basic necessities.

SafeSurfer

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Misleading title, OP. Are you an Indo journalist?

What part is misleading?

confiscated past participle, past tense of con·fis·cate (Verb)
Verb
Take or seize (someone's property) with authority.

com·pul·so·ry
/kəmˈpəlsərē/
Adjective
Required by law or a rule; obligatory.
Involving or exercising compulsion; coercive.

Anyone

Thread title is a joke.....stuff like this should be edited or just out right banned.

munchkin_utd

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes the contributory pension will only mean you get the state pension, but do people want to live off of that for the rest of their lives ? what will it be like or worth then ? what will the cost of living be ?

Or will we blame the state for not making us take out our own pension as we blame everyone else for our problems and never accept personal responsibility ?

course its the states fault!
Successive Irish governments have promised and delivered some of the lowest taxes in the western world combined with Scandanavian social benefits.
The sums do not add up but the voters do not look at the sums nor care that the state is bankrupt.

As I pointed out before on the "whinge about getting charged for fire services..... but I dont want to pay any local taxes that would cover such servces" thread, if my wife and I were to move back to Ireland from Germany we would have a 5figure boost in disposable income on our very modest incomes mainly due to separate state pension and health charges that PRSI does not cover.
(i.e. on irish average industrial wage of 33k the difference between take home pay in Irl and Germany is over 5grand so for couple earning a little more, well north of 10 grand difference)
And thats leaving aside paying for water+council tax and firms paying local corporation tax as well as land based rates.

That shows how much you pay for your benefits abroad yet in Ireland somehow people want those Scanavaian/ Germanic benefits but without paying the requisite taxes to fund them.

Mr Benevolent

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What part is misleading?

confiscated past participle, past tense of con·fis·cate (Verb)
Verb
Take or seize (someone's property) with authority.

com·pul·so·ry
/kəmˈpəlsərē/
Adjective
Required by law or a rule; obligatory.
Involving or exercising compulsion; coercive.

Errr... it's a report recommending a course of action. It's not in law. So it won't happen unless it goes into law, which is unlikely. You just made that title up to make it look like the report recommendations have already been adopted. Which they haven't. So you're trying to mislead people.

Again, are you an Indo journalist?

Esoteric_

Esoteric_ wrote: »

Nope, I don't want to live off of the state pension for life, but as I already pointed out in a previous post, once I finish college, if I am lucky enough to get a job in my chosen field (the field I'm entering has a lot of well paid jobs available, so I should get one), I'll be contributing to a private pension then, when I can afford it without going without basic necessities.

I hope it's not IT ? lol

Maybe you'll be lucky and the company that employs you will contribute towards your pension! :-)

Workers, employers and the State should contribute 15pc of salary to the new scheme, it says.

Workers contribute 15% + the others contribute more, or grand total contributed is 15%?

Duggys Housemate

bluewolf wrote: »

Workers contribute 15% + the others contribute more, or grand total contributed is 15%?

I think the grand total. Not a bad deal if the State contributes 5% ( and so does the worker and company, if it can). So someone on 50K would spend 2.5K before tax taken from his marginal, to get 7.5 k savings a year. Or 300K over 40 excluding compoundedness.

Esoteric_

Deleted User wrote: »

I hope it's not IT ? lol

Maybe you'll be lucky and the company that employs you will contribute towards your pension! :-)

God, no!

I don't care if they contribute or not, I'm more than happy to pay my own pension contributions when I'm financially able to do so. Until then, I'll pay my taxes like everyone else.

munchkin_utd

munchkin_utd wrote: »

course its the states fault!
Successive Irish governments have promised and delivered some of the lowest taxes in the western world combined with Scandanavian social benefits.
The sums do not add up but the voters do not look at the sums nor care that the state is bankrupt.

As I pointed out before on the "whinge about getting charged for fire services..... but I dont want to pay any local taxes that would cover such servces" thread, if my wife and I were to move back to Ireland from Germany we would have a 5figure boost in disposable income on our very modest incomes mainly due to separate state pension and health charges that PRSI does not cover.
(i.e. on irish average industrial wage of 33k the difference between take home pay in Irl and Germany is over 5grand so for couple earning a little more, well north of 10 grand difference)
And thats leaving aside paying for water+council tax and firms paying local corporation tax as well as land based rates.

That shows how much you pay for your benefits abroad yet in Ireland somehow people want those Scanavaian/ Germanic benefits but without paying the requisite taxes to fund them.

Yes FF ruined this country and people got too used to paying too low taxes.

Those in Germany see 50% of their income gone through health charges and taxes.

In Germany you have to pay water chargers, but you have to pay for waste water also, simply incoming water x 2 is deducted.

Germany has a far better infrastructure because they pay for it and their health system is excellent and puts us to absolute shame.

I love Germany, it's such a sensible place with sensible people that don't bitch and moan all the time. There is the absolute absence of constant negativity that has always plagued Irish people and one of the reasons we will not get out of recession for several years.

My advice to you and your wife is don't move back or you'll go crazy !!!

daheff

I don't object to compulsory pension contributions

BUT I would expect a reduction of taxes of a similar amount (doubt there would be any such tax reduction).

IF this was enacted I would expect that all pensions would deliver a minimum amount for people at retirement (possibly based off number of years paid into the scheme), but could then be higher if the funds performance was good over the period of contributions. i.e. like we have now, a minimum old age non contributory pension.


Will either of the above happen...seriously doubt it...but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a compulsory pension contribution required. Most other countries do it (like property tax, water tax), so if its good enough for them, then the Irish government will jump on the bandwagon regardless of whats the best solution


People need to realise that all these additional taxes are just to remove COSTS from the governments books. Nothing more.

sock puppet

daheff wrote: »

IF this was enacted I would expect that all pensions would deliver a minimum amount for people at retirement (possibly based off number of years paid into the scheme), but could then be higher if the funds performance was good over the period of contributions. i.e. like we have now, a minimum old age non contributory pension.

Yes. I too would like all of the benefits of a DC scheme with none of the risks.

sock puppet

sock puppet wrote: »

Yes. I too would like all of the benefits of a DC scheme with none of the risks.

Or all the benefits of a DB/DC hybrid with none of the risks
lol

Odysseus

Are they setting up something similar in the UK currently? If so does anyone know how this compares to the system over there?

Tigger

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes the contributory pension will only mean you get the state pension, but do people want to live off of that for the rest of their lives ? what will it be like or worth then ? what will the cost of living be ?

Or will we blame the state for not making us take out our own pension as we blame everyone else for our problems and never accept personal responsibility ?

all a pension is is puting money aaside for the future
i have my own savings and investments that need my money to operate and grow
why on earth should i have to put 15% towards some idiots who will not manage my money as well as i do?

Tigger

Deleted User wrote: »

I love Germany, it's such a sensible place with sensible people that don't bitch and moan all the time

must resist godwin

Tigger

Tigger wrote: »

why on earth should i have to put 15% towards some idiots who will not manage my money as well as i do?

Well For those who can manage their own money that'e great, but what about those who don't ?

I suppose we can't have a system where some have to pay and others not ?

Tigger

Tigger wrote: »

must resist godwin

Then don't start !!!

jam_mac_jam

I think this sounds quite sensible, maybe 15% is a large amount for younger people but pensions should be compulsory.

SafeSurfer

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Errr... it's a report recommending a course of action. It's not in law. So it won't happen unless it goes into law, which is unlikely. You just made that title up to make it look like the report recommendations have already been adopted. Which they haven't. So you're trying to mislead people.

Again, are you an Indo journalist?

No I am not an indo journalist.

Almost all legislation starts off by expert group reports. You think that these recommendations or something very similar wont be implemented in the next couple of years what do you base this on?

You may remember the €180 communications tax was first floated after a report 18 months ago. This has now been confirmed and will be passed into legislation this year.

Well why not have compulsory pensions ? People on state pensions always moaning about what they can't afford etc, if they had a private pension they may have a better quality of life ?

Don't you still get your state pension even if you have a private pension ? if so isn't that a waste ?

Don't people who lived foreign for years and come back to live, are they still entitled to a state pension ? should we accept this? as they would probably have a pension from another country

Playboy

Well people need to start taking responsibility for their retirement. The baby boomers and public sector have milked the system with their final salary schemes and have left a lot of countries with enormous and unsustainable debt.

I think its actually a crime and people should be locked up for it... how can people saddle their children and grandchildren with their debt while they retired early and go golfing... the opportunity for such a retirement then being denied to the next generations. We will all be working till we are 70, pay a lot more in pension contributions and get a paltry return in comparison.

ilovesleep

Just legalise euthanasia to fcuk.

I always said that don't want to live to be old and hell will freeze over before I pay into a pension fund. Like another user here, I am a low earner and wouldn't be able to pay 15% of my pay. When and if when things do improve I do hope to pay into a private savings account so that when I retire it can give me however long - a few weeks/months of some sort of peace and enjoyment and that's it. When it's gone, just let me die peacefully with the option of euthanasia.

noodler

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What part is misleading?

confiscated past participle, past tense of con·fis·cate (Verb)
Verb
Take or seize (someone's property) with authority.

com·pul·so·ry
/kəmˈpəlsərē/
Adjective
Required by law or a rule; obligatory.
Involving or exercising compulsion; coercive.

The part where you implied that an indo quote from an unpublished OECD report was 100% going to be implemented by the Government.

Do you see now?



BTW, the article also saif that low-earners wouldn't pay into a fund.

Did anybody read it?

ilovesleep

ilovesleep wrote: »

When it's gone and just let me die peacefully with the option of euthanasia.

Am I the only one that sees something seriously wrong with this statement ?

Kristopherus

Deleted User wrote: »

Well why not have compulsory pensions ? People on state pensions always moaning about what they can't afford etc, if they had a private pension they may have a better quality of life ?

Don't you still get your state pension even if you have a private pension ? if so isn't that a waste ?

Don't people who lived foreign for years and come back to live, are they still entitled to a state pension ? should we accept this? as they would probably have a pension from another country

At present, if you have both a Contributory State pension and a Private pension, you pay tax on the combined income. Why would anyone pay 15% of their disposable income, which has already been taxed,towards a private pension, when it will be taxed again. Also a pensioner on the state contributory will also get all the other state benefits free. If they have an additional private pension, the combined income may put them over the guidelines for those benefits.

People who return from abroad get a pension from the country they come back from. If it is less than the Irish Non-contributory pension rate, they may qualify for a top-up to that rate.

Kristopherus

Kristopherus wrote: »

Why would anyone pay 15% of their disposable income, which has already been taxed,towards a private pension, when it will be taxed again.

Good point, I didn't realise that was the case !

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Good point, I didn't realise that was the case !

You get tax relief on contributions on the lower rate
So it's a single tax in the end, deferred

Curry Addict

the financial sector have proven they cant manage our money
the government have proven they cant manage the financial sector
ill manage my own money thank you very much!

almighty1

Just to keep it in line with the sensationalist title. Public sector have 10% taken from their pay already......shock horror. :rolleyes:

Xcellor

Esoteric_ wrote: »

... I quit smoking ...

Good stuff.

P_1

Not keen on this idea at all to be honest. Pension schemes have been known to collapse in the past. What guarantees are there in place to ensue that it won't happen again? Nil I'd hazard.

It just strikes me as yet more nanny stateism