Bit of Help?

Lou190

Hi All,

Long time looker first time poster so be easy on me
Female. age 23. Appox 9 and half stone. 5ft 6.
Basically since the new year, I have changed my lifestyle and currently getting plenty of exercise and eating right.

I have cut out all processed/sugar foods, lowered carb intake, highered protein intake,and allow a cheat meal once a week.
I don't weigh myself as I am consternating more on "toning" up , cutting fat, building muscle and don't want to be put off by the weighing scales.

While I feel I have lost a little weight and toned up a little, I feel that for all the work I am putting in I should be getting better results.
My main problem area Is my belly

My diet mainly consist of.

Breakfast- 30g oats mixed with one scoop whey & water & some berries or 3 eggs (fried, scrambed, omelet etc).
Snack - protein bar or one piece of fruit.
Lunch - Fish/egg/meat with salad (onions, lettuce, tomatoes, carrots etc) or stir fry.
Snack - Greek yogurt
Dinner/post workout - Fish/meat with veg ( carrots, sweet potato, turnip, green beans etc.)
If I'm still feeling peekish before bed I will have some eggs, protein shake or some milled flax with yogurt and berries.

*just to add I weigh all my foods, and work out roughly how much calories I am eating per meal. I am eating aprox 1800 calories daily.

Workouts -
Monday - 20 min cardio. 50 min spin and bell class.
Tuesday - 20 min cardio. 50min Trx Class
Wednesday - Rest.
Thursday - 20 min carido. 50min Trx Class.
Friday - 20 min carido. 50 min Spin & bell Class.
Saturday - 5k jog.

Any advice on where I need to improve or what I am doing wrong
I've been patient and feel I work up a good sweat each time I work out and kind of want to start seeing my body fat % drop and see more muscle and abs :P
I have a wedding that's aboard to attend this time next month so want to really up my game and get into as best shape as possible for it.

Appreciate all help & advice.

tmc86

Hi Lou,

From what I can see your diet looks fine and nice and clean. One thing that I'd query is the protein bar as some of these can be quite sugary and carb heavy.

It looks like a lot of cardio, have you thought about introducing some weights into your routine or had any past experiences with weights? Or at least make sure the cardio is low intensity so you're working at optimal fat burning level. Swimming is great for core and toning up so you might introduce a swim day or two a week maybe instead of a 20min cardio or go for the swim after your classes.

Maybe limit the cardio to one or two sessions and swap the others with weights. Either get a member of staff at your gym to workout a programme or else have a read of some of the fitness forums online (google is your friend) to pick up exersises and routines. Sometimes the group classes aren't as effective for your own personal goals and something better can be tailored to you.

Failing that, I'd check your calorie requirements again and see how much you need and then create a defecit to help reduce bf. There's a good calculation tool in the stickies from G'em.

johnny_knoxvile

i'm no expert, but I would agree with the suggestion to introduce some weights as your body may adapt to the cardio.

I got tired just reading your cardio...best of luck!

Lou190

Thanks for the reply Tmc86.

The protein Bars are home made, I actually got the recipe on this forum :P

What would be is low intensity cardio? I always presumed the harder and faster you go the more fat you burned .. No ?:o

I sometimes do some weight lifting instead of a spin class. I think the TRX class is a good strength training class as I can feel really feel in my muscles after.

tmc86

Lou190 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Tmc86.

The protein Bars are home made

Then you're golden! I presume they are Transform's bars!

"The harder and faster you go" cardio is more relative to your heart and increasing your fitness levels & stamina - not necessarily burning fat unless you introduce intervals into the equation.

Low intensity cardio would be things like a longer slower run on the treadmill in which you wouldn't be out of breath but would be sweating and elevating your core temperature and maintaing a heart rate within the "fat burning zone". The cross trainer is pretty effective for low intensity and it helps to work your arms too.

To include intervals when going fast and hard -HIIT (High intensity interval training) is also very good at burning fat. e.g. on a treadmill jog for 2 mins, sprint for 30s and repeat. You can build up the sprinting/fast paced running as you get more comfortable. Or if you're outside on your 5 k run. Jog for a few minutes and run fast for a minute etc you can also use lamposts as markers. i.e. jog from one lampost to the next and sprint from that one to the third lampost and so on.

The TRX training sounds fine so and especially since you say you really feel it in the muscles after. Always a good indication of what is working!

It sounds like the cardio is catching you out i.e. it might be making you fitter but not helping to burn fat. Here's a suggestion of a variation on your routine at the moment -you could try for a week or two and see if you notice any results;

Monday - 20 min cross trainer low intensity cardio 50 min spin and bell class.
Tuesday - 20 min HIIT Treadmill. 50min Trx Class
Wednesday - Rest.
Thursday - 10 min cross trainer (more of a warm up for your class than anything) 50min Trx Class. 20min Swim
Friday - 20 min HIIT Treadmill. 50 min Spin & bell Class.
Saturday - 5k jog. with Sprinting intervals (HIIT)/ or a slower paced jog for 7km

Lou190

Thanks a lot. Will give that a shot and see how it plays out

tmc86

No problem, let us know how it goes!

manarocket

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manarocket

I was also under the impression that working as hard as u can burns fat quicker, i would use the thread mill in the following way.
speed 10 for 5 min warm up then change to speed interval jog speed 8 run speed 14 1 min jog 1 min run / sprint. So all together i'm on for about 25 mins. Is it better to do this or stay on for longer at a steady pace say 10 or 11?

tmc86

@manarocket - what you're doing at the moment is HIIT so I'd stick with it.

The jog should be comfortable enough and then you should be going hard for the 1 minute sprint so by the end of it your heart rate is much higher and you find yourself closer to being out of breath.

When you go back to your jog it should give you a chance to recover slightly and let your heart rate fall again and steady your breathing.

excalibur the swordsman

Hi Lou190,
My advice is don't worry about how you look. Live every day like its your last. Treat others well, and appreciate the people in your life. Looks, and weight, are only skin deep. It's the type of person you are thar really matter's. lol.

listermint

excalibur the swordsman wrote: »

Hi Lou190,
My advice is don't worry about how you look. Live every day like its your last. Treat others well, and appreciate the people in your life. Looks, and weight, are only skin deep. It's the type of person you are thar really matter's. lol.

Having health goals isnt a bad thing. Goals are a positive in life

tmc86

@ excalibur - you are a noble troll by the sounds of it!

working towards physical appearance can greatly improve someone's confidence, general happiness and both physical and mental wellbeing -This is a good thing!

excalibur the swordsman

Thanks tmc,
I do my best like alot of others. But i have known extremely challenging times in my life, i have seen some of the worst treatments that is possible from one human being to another. What i have found is that the way to achieve true happiness, both mentally and emotionally, is not by being worried about physical appearence, or judging others. But by people helping people. It is nothing to do with religion for me. But i believe in helping others every chance i get. It can just be through cheering somebody up, or being their to listen. This always gives me in ner peace, and contempment. All the best.

Mellor

Lou190 wrote: »

Long time looker first time poster so be easy on me
Female. age 23. Appox 9 and half stone. 5ft 6.

...

*just to add I weigh all my foods, and work out roughly how much calories I am eating per meal. I am eating aprox 1800 calories daily.

The foods you are eating is fine. But there is a very real chance that you are simply eating too much of it. You aren't very big to start with, 60kg, so your BMR won't be very high. 1800 cals, even from clean sources, could be an maintenance amount. Plus, maybe the measured 1800, is closer to 2000 in reality (happens to every one imo).

You are trying to shift that last bit of fat. Diet needs to be spot on here for the last push. I'd ignore the whole idea of a fat burning zone. It's largely pseudo-science. The TRX and Spin and Bell are probably a decent hybrid of cardio and resistance. But I'd suggest swapping one session a week for a complete weight training/resistance training effort.

Mellor

tmc86 wrote: »

It looks like a lot of cardio, have you thought about introducing some weights into your routine or had any past experiences with weights? Or at least make sure the cardio is low intensity so you're working at optimal fat burning level.

The fat burning zone is largely bad science.
Firstly, a higher % of energy from fat doesn't mean more fat is burned. It should be obvious why.
FAlso, your body uses energy over the whole day not just in the gym. The other 23 hours of the day are spent in the low BPM fat burning zone. It makes far more sense to use the workout to burn off as much of the non-fat energy as possible, so that your body is force to burn fat for the other 23 hours.

Swimming is great for core and toning up so you might introduce a swim day or two a week maybe instead of a 20min cardio or go for the swim after your classes.

It's actually not.
"Toning" means reducing bodyfat. In that regard, swimming is exercise like another - you get out what you put it. Most people simply aren't effective enough at swimming to get as much out as they can when running or doing anything else.

excalibur the swordsman

Lou190, the best of luck with the weight loss.

tmc86

Mellor wrote: »

The fat burning zone is largely bad science.
Firstly, a higher % of energy from fat doesn't mean more fat is burned. It should be obvious why.
FAlso, your body uses energy over the whole day not just in the gym. The other 23 hours of the day are spent in the low BPM fat burning zone. It makes far more sense to use the workout to burn off as much of the non-fat energy as possible, so that your body is force to burn fat for the other 23 hours.


It's actually not.
"Toning" means reducing bodyfat. In that regard, swimming is exercise like another - you get out what you put it. Most people simply aren't effective enough at swimming to get as much out as they can when running or doing anything else.

That does make sense when you put it clearly like that. Where did this psuedo-science come from and how is it so engrained in the health & fitness industry? If there aren't some benefits to it wouldn't we all be doing high intensity and trying to go as hard as we could therefore burning fat, improving stamina and cardio all at the same time?

I'd disagree I find swimming very good for core. There's slightly more resistance involved than you'd get doing excersise out of the water. You're working all major muscle groups and also improving muscle stabilisation and flexibility. But saying that, I'd consider myself a competent enough swimmer and I concentrate on my technique.

As you say swimming is excersise like another but I was under the impression that your body gets used to routine and therefore its best to keep it varied and implement a variety of excersises? In the OP's case I'd have thought by introducing a swimming session in place of one of the several treadmill runs, she may see the results that she's looking for, quicker than she would with another of the same treadmill sessions.

Mellor

tmc86 wrote: »

That does make sense when you put it clearly like that. Where did this psuedo-science come from and how is it so engrained in the health & fitness industry? If there aren't some benefits to it wouldn't we all be doing high intensity and trying to go as hard as we could therefore burning fat, improving stamina and cardio all at the same time?

It's just one if those things. Some study mentioned fat burning zone. A few people mis-interpret it and it just stays around through repetition.

I'd disagree I find swimming very good for core. There's slightly more resistance involved than you'd get doing excersise out of the water. You're working all major muscle groups and also improving muscle stabilisation and flexibility. But saying that, I'd consider myself a competent enough swimmer and I concentrate on my technique.

I'd consider myself a very competent swimmer. I swam competitively for a number of years when I was younger. I think swimming is a great exercise. But not for fat loss. The average person simply can't burn enough energy in the pool, at least compared to other exercises.

...your body gets used to routine and therefore its best to keep it varied and implement a variety of excersises?

That doesn't really happen.
There's no need to "shock the body". Performance improves as you get more effecient, you don't start using less energy at the same intensity.

tmc86

Thanks for answering.

SunnyDub1

Mellor wrote: »

The foods you are eating is fine. But there is a very real chance that you are simply eating too much of it. You aren't very big to start with, 60kg, so your BMR won't be very high. 1800 cals, even from clean sources, could be an maintenance amount. Plus, maybe the measured 1800, is closer to 2000 in reality (happens to every one IMO).
.

Sorry to bump thread but I do have to question the quoted.
Surely with all the exercise the OP is doing (which IMO is a good amount), 1800 (if not more) is what the op should be consuming daily if she wants to lose weight?

If the op where to work out her calorific needs taking her weight, activity level etc into consideration, I'm pretty sure it would be in & around the 1800 mark to lose weight. No?

Lou190

Thanks again everyone for the advice and help.
I have taking TMc86's advice on board and focusing on changing my training around a little like it was suggested, and will be doing more weight training.
So far so good but will obviously have to wait some time to see if I'm benefiting from it. *fingers crossed*

Re the post by mellor, I stated in my first post the I weigh all my foods so I really don't think I'm eating to much of it. and if on the off chance that I'm going over by 100 or even 200 every other day I can't see how it would have a huge impact. Unless it was 200cals of chocolate!

I see someone else is asking the same question - How could 1800 cals be a maintenance amount of Cal's to be consuming for someone of my weight, age, activity level

Personally I feel if I went any more under I'd be starving.
1800 Cal's on a clean diet with the work I am putting in (cardio, weights, classes) is hard enough as it is without reducing it by anymore.

Just to add: weight isn't really the issue, I don't want to be stick thin(skin and bone) I just want to be leaner, no bingo arms or rolls etc

Theresalwaysone

Seems youve missed the point.

Lou190

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Seems youve missed the point.

What point is that?

paddy2125

Hi lou just reading your thread i too am a big folower of boards but dont post!:) firstly everyone is different and bodies react to stresses differently. You need to find out exactly what works for you. Your diet seems very good, you havnt mentioned if you are consuming a protein shake directly after training?
Also I completley agree with tmc86 in that you need to incorporate a lot more weight training and reduce the amount of cardio.
I understand that you are in a cutting phase but if you dont have enough muscle there with to begin with then is going to be very hard to show that muscle. Therefore a little bit of muscle building and when you feel that you have built enough then place more emphasis on your cutting phase

tmc86

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Seems youve missed the point.

Helpful contribution. The irony of your username!

Anyway Lou, I've had a go at estimating your BMR i.e. the calories you need for your resting metabolic rate (RMR) or the calories your body requires just to exist if you were lying down for 24 hours:

Formula BW (60kg) * 14.7 + 496

this gives you maintenance calories of 1,378

Then calculate your lifestyle daily energy needs:

I've taken the lowest activity level -mostly seated or standing RMR * 1.4

1378 * 1.4 = 1929.2


You can then calculate the calories for exercise expenditure.

This bit is slightly tricky as its hard to estimate calories burned for your cardio and classes without more detail but according to the stickies I'll go with the following;

200 min high intensity cardio (your 4x50min classes) = 1980 calories
100 min low intensity cardio (your treadmill 20 min runs and 5k) = 500 calories

therefore a total of 2480 calories needed per week for your exercise (This is probably a bit higher but better to underestimate)

2480 / 7 days = 354 calories per day for your excersise

so add this to your BMR + activity level

1,929.2 + 354 = 2,283.2 calories a day maintenance

for weight loss a reduction of 15% is good, therefore 2,283.2 * 0.85 =

1940.72 calories per day for your current exercise routine and weight loss benefits

Or to maybe see quicker results you could try a 500 calorie defecit for weight loss which would mean you'd need to be hitting 1783.2 calories per day (not too far off what you have estimated at the moment)

If you think that its taking a long time for results, maybe start (if you haven't already) taking measurements and track them as you may have lost size on some parts of your body whichmight not be noticeable when you're looking in the mirror. Taking a picture each week etc is also good to track how your body is changing. The body chooses where you lose fat you can't pick it so be patient and hopefully you'll get the results you want.

Mellor

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

Sorry to bump thread but I do have to question the quoted.
Surely with all the exercise the OP is doing (which IMO is a good amount), 1800 (if not more) is what the op should be consuming daily if she wants to lose weight?

If the op where to work out her calorific needs taking her weight, activity level etc into consideration, I'm pretty sure it would be in & around the 1800 mark to lose weight. No?

Yes and no.

People , in general, have a tendency to underestimate the food they eat and over estimate the workout intensity. It's just human nature. Look all the people who say that only eat XXXX cals a day and can't lose weight, or the guys who eat loads and can't gain weight. It's in a lot of new threads. Do you think all these people are exceptions to the rules, or are then over/under estimating.

We have no idea of the intensity of the workouts. This is not aimed at the OP, but I see people all the time working out very often, but doing very little. If they were to describe their workouts to the forum, it would look like they do more than reality.

Even if you weigh everything, there's all the small things that add up.

Lou190 wrote: »

Re the post by mellor, I stated in my first post the I weigh all my foods so I really don't think I'm eating to much of it. and if on the off chance that I'm going over by 100 or even 200 every other day I can't see how it would have a huge impact. Unless it was 200cals of chocolate

200 calories is 200calories regardless if its chocolate or tuna.
Even when you weigh everything, small errors add up.

I see someone else is asking the same question - How could 1800 cals be a maintenance amount of Cal's to be consuming for someone of my weight, age, activity level

Explained above
your BMR will be quite low, so you simply won't be able to lose the same weight as a large person.


Ultimately, you said you haven't weighed yourself. No photos. measurements etc. It sounds like you have no way of measuring progress. Except that you think you "should be making better progress, kinda, maybe?"
You said you have lost some weight, toned up a little. If you aren't checking progress then how do you know that this isn't exactly are predicted by your diet and energy consumption?


If you're not assessing, you're guessing.

Mellor

tmc86 wrote: »

Anyway Lou, I've had a go at estimating your BMR i.e. the calories you need for your resting metabolic rate (RMR) or the calories your body requires just to exist if you were lying down for 24 hours:

Formula BW (60kg) * 14.7 + 496

this gives you maintenance calories of 1,378

So far so good. That's roughly the figure I came up with.
But unfortunately the post you are getting them from is very one, and there are some mistakes in the rest. not your fault, the mistakes 9imo) are in the stickies)

Then calculate your lifestyle daily energy needs:

I've taken the lowest activity level -mostly seated or standing RMR * 1.4

1378 * 1.4 = 1929.2


You can then calculate the calories for exercise expenditure.

The lowest activity level is normally listed as 1.2, for sedentary. It's not in the stick post for some reason.
But the higher ones include exercise activity. If somebody was very active, and chose 1.7 or even 2.0, by adding on specific workout cals they are counting them twice imo.

200 min high intensity cardio (your 4x50min classes) = 1980 calories
100 min low intensity cardio (your treadmill 20 min runs and 5k) = 500 calories

I generally think that trying to work out specifc workout calories is a bad way to do it. For two reasons.

1. It's open to overestimating.
For example, the above 200 mins of classes, you estimated it at 1980. That works out at almost 600 cals per hour. Now, I don't know the OP, nor have I seen the class. But 600 cals per hour, sounds like a big estimation for somebody who is only 60kg. (energy used is proportional to weight)

2. Burning off 300 cals in the gym, doesn't mean you've burned off 300 extra cals. The reason being, if you didn't go to the gym and sat on the couch doing nothing, you'd still burn some energy. Those 5 hours working out, might be a few hundred calories on the couch, not huge obviously, but still another small error, add them all up and they start to count.

1,929.2 + 354 = 2,283.2 calories a day maintenance

My very rough numbers worked it out at 2070. Not a massive difference, but probably significant.

TBH, I really hate those equations. They are so anally precise to start with, giving BMR in fractions of a calorie. Then you are told to pic between 1.2, 1.4, 1.55 etc, which dumps in massive variance.

So if 2070 was maintenance, and you are a strict 1800 cals a day, never altering, you'd lose about 1/2 a lb a week.
How does that sound OP?




A far simpler calorie goal.
For weight loss. Bodyweight in lbs x 12

So thats 133lbs x 12 = 1600
Eat that amount to lsoe weight, if you overshoot by a little ever now and then, you'll still be losing.

tmc86

I agree that even a slight variation in numbers (e.g. activity level 1.2/1.4 etc) can result in quite a big difference for final calorie targets.

Mellor, not sure if you've see the "This forum is dying" thread but there has been some suggestions to clean up and update the stickies.

I think your explanations above and the simple BW lbs x 12 for weight loss (hadn't come across this one before) would be a clearer piece of advice/info.

Col_Loki

Firstly great work and dedication!
Some good information already posted, just one or two things to add....

You really should take photo's, it is one of the best ways to see exactly how you are progressing, it is also great for giving yourself a boost when you need it (see how far you have came). I find the tummy is the hardest to notice any change in, I might have lost a decent amount of fat but it doesn't really compute compared to more obvious areas....I just think ahh its the same as it was a month ago right up until the point that abs start showing.

Are you drinking lots of water during the day? Do you have much salt? Its just that Water retention might be adding to the woes.

Do you go out for a few drinks at the weekend? Have you factored that into the calorie intake?

As you probably know the way a body stores and uses fat can be totally different from person to person area wise, it might be that you your body is using the fat stores everywhere else first and last is the tummy. (a pain).


Either way, great work again and I hope you don't get discouraged! Keep it up.

conzy

I'd say 1800 is too high. Try 1500 for a fortnight and see how you get on