Clermont vs Munster buildup thread **read post one

monkeybutter

Munster by more than 10

This is going to be a lot tighter than people are making out

Look at their results vs Irish teams in the last 2 years, won 3, Lost 2

Ulster 16 – 11 Clermont
Clermont 19 – 15 Ulster
Clermont 15 – 19 Leinster
Clermont 15 – 12 Leinster
Ireland 21 – 28 Clermont

Leinster and Ulster should have both won away, Ulster were beaten by some very dubious reffing in the last minutes last year for the Clermont try after some epic defense and a weakend Leinster shot themselves in the foot away in Clermont, it was there for the taking.

On the flip side Clermont were one grounded ball from beating Leinster last year.

Their strongest performance was the last game at Leinster, but they had the upper hand their having already beaten them once.

Thats how close it is. It's also really close between Ulster, Munster and Leinster.

Munster are going to have to turn up 100% to win it, but if they do, they have every chance of doing it.

Grimebox

Clermont by 1-10

I would argue Munster is the weakest of Munster/Leinster/Ulster right now though.

When did Ireland play Clermont

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

Grimebox wrote: »

I would argue Munster is the weakest of Munster/Leinster/Ulster right now though.

When did Ireland play Clermont

I would argue Munster is the strongest, we're the only ones left in the H Cup.

Teferi

:rolleyes:

.ak

Rightwing wrote: »

I would argue Munster is the strongest, we're the only ones left in the H Cup.

Silly comparison. If all 3 teams were in the same pool you'd have a point... but they weren't, so you don't.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Clermont by 1-10

Grimebox wrote: »

I would argue Munster is the weakest of Munster/Leinster/Ulster right now though.

When did Ireland play Clermont

He must have meant Leinster

Rightwing wrote: »

I would argue Munster is the strongest, we're the only ones left in the H Cup.

Very few would agree. Others would be more likely to say that Leinster and Ulster got worse draws. Very difficult to measure imo. If you want to use the Munster are the strongest do it after beating Clermont.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

He must have meant Leinster


Very few would agree. Others would be more likely to say that Leinster and Ulster got worse draws. Very difficult to measure imo. If you want to use the Munster are the strongest do it after beating Clermont.

Your 6,000 post was a very good one.

I'm not saying Munster are either, but one could make an argument in knockout rugby, Munster are right up there.

Teferi

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not saying Munster are either, but one could make an argument in knockout rugby, Munster are right up there.

...

Rightwing wrote: »

I would argue Munster is the strongest, we're the only ones left in the H Cup.

...

ed7890

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Very few would agree. Others would be more likely to say that Leinster and Ulster got worse draws. Very difficult to measure imo. If you want to use the Munster are the strongest do it after beating Clermont.

I wouldn't say there's a huge difference between Ulster and Munster's draws. Ulster got a harder Scottish team, Munster got a harder English team, the two french teams are neck and neck in the Top14. Both had an away quarter final to a good English team. You can split hairs over it, but it's not that different.

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

ed7890 wrote: »

I wouldn't say there's a huge difference between Ulster and Munster's draws. Ulster got a harder Scottish team, Munster got a harder English team, the two french teams are neck and neck in the Top14. Both had an away quarter final to a good English team. You can split hairs over it, but it's not that different.

But Ciaran did say it's very difficult to measure. You could make arguments for each team, that's the bottom line.

I agree with the poster who said it won't be that easy for Clermont

.ak

ed7890 wrote: »

I wouldn't say there's a huge difference between Ulster and Munster's draws. Ulster got a harder Scottish team, Munster got a harder English team, the two french teams are neck and neck in the Top14. Both had an away quarter final to a good English team. You can split hairs over it, but it's not that different.

Yeah but aside from a slight slip against Northampton Ulster were utterly dominant in their pool. You could hardly say that about Munster.

molloyjh

Munster by 1-10

Grimebox wrote: »

I would argue Munster is the weakest of Munster/Leinster/Ulster right now though.

Given that they lost 3 of the 4 derbies against those sides (and the one they did win was a case of Munster first versus Ulster seconds in Thomond) that would probably be a fair argument.

Leinster were effectively knocked out of the HEC by Clermont and Ulster by Sarries. Both of whom are better sides at the moment than Quins.

Lelantos

Twitter claiming Nigel Owens is in charge of the match

Rightwing

Munster by more than 10

Lelantos wrote: »

Twitter claiming Nigel Owens is in charge of the match

:mad:

He'd completely bottle it.

Lelantos

Rightwing wrote: »

:mad:

He'd completely bottle it.

It's been confirmed, he's reffing it. Leinster get Barnes

ssaye

Saturday, 27 April
ASM Clermont Auvergne v Munster Rugby, Stade de la Mosson (18.00)
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wal); Assistant referee 1: Leighton Hodges (Wal); Assistant referee 2: Ian Davies (Wal); TMO: Gareth Simmonds (Wal); Citing Commissioner: Douglas Hunter (Sco)
Sunday, 28 April
Saracens v Toulon, Twickenham Stadium (15.00)
Referee: Alain Rolland (Ire); Assistant referee 1: Peter Fitzgibbon (Ire); Assistant referee 2: Andrew McMenemy (Sco); TMO: Marshall Kilgore (Ire); Citing Commissioner: Denis Templeton (Ire)
Amlin Challenge Cup semi-finals
(Kick-offs local time)
Friday, 26 April
Perpignan v Stade Francais Paris, Stade Aimé Giral (21.00)
Referee : George Clancy (Ire) ; Assistant referee 1 : Dudley Phillips (Ire) ; Assistant referee 2 : Marius Mitrea (Ita) ; TMO: Jim Yuille (Sco); Citing Commissioner: Ian Goodall (Sco)
Saturday, 27 April
Leinster Rugby v Biarritz Olympique Pays Basque, RDS Arena (14.30)
Referee: Wayne Barnes (Eng); Assistant referee 1: Greg Garner (Eng); Assistant referee 2: Paul Dix (Eng); TMO: Geoff Warren (Eng); Citing Commissioner: Ray Wilton (Wal)

ed7890

.ak wrote: »

Yeah but aside from a slight slip against Northampton Ulster were utterly dominant in their pool. You could hardly say that about Munster.

Ya maybe, you could say that, Munster did make harder work of their group. Ulster got off to a great start, where as Munster lost their first game out away in France. You could say it's harder to start in france, then to finish in france like Ulster did.

Ulster did look great at the start, but they sort of struggled to get over the line. They didn't really bag that many tries for a team that were utterly dominant did they? They actually scored less tries, and conceded more than Munster. Munster did win their 1/4 final then, where as Ulster lost to the team from Munster's group.

Not trying to slate Ulster. Just it's a bit bizarre to claim Ulster are a better team, and then to justify it with how the teams went in the Heineken At least base it on their league form if you want to say that.

Personally i don't think there's much between the teams this season. If they met in a knockout game in a neutral venue right now i think it would be hard to call.

thomond2006

ssaye wrote: »

Friday, 26 April
Perpignan v Stade Francais Paris, Stade Aimé Giral (21.00)
Referee : George Clancy (Ire) ; Assistant referee 1 : Dudley Phillips (Ire) ; Assistant referee 2 : Marius Mitrea (Ita) ; TMO: Jim Yuille (Sco); Citing Commissioner: Ian Goodall (Sco)

uh oh

molloyjh

Munster by 1-10

ed7890 wrote: »

Ya maybe, you could say that, Munster did make harder work of their group. Ulster got off to a great start, where as Munster lost their first game out away in France. You could say it's harder to start in france, then to finish in france like Ulster did.

Ulster did look great at the start, but they sort of struggled to get over the line. They didn't really bag that many tries for a team that were utterly dominant did they? They actually scored less tries, and conceded more than Munster. Munster did win their 1/4 final then, where as Ulster lost to the team from Munster's group.

Not trying to slate Ulster. Just it's a bit bizarre to claim Ulster are a better team, and then to justify it with how the teams went in the Heineken At least base it on their league form if you want to say that.

Personally i don't think there's much between the teams this season. If they met in a knockout game in a neutral venue right now i think it would be hard to call.

I think quoting stats without context is a bit pointless though. For example the tries for and against are heavily impacted by the fact that Munster faced Edinburgh who were beyond hopless. They had a ridiculous inability to score tries and were conceding to beat the band. Add to that a completely dis-interested Racing side in the final game and it was reasonably easy for Munsters try stats to look good.

If you want to talk about this meaning fully then why not talk about Munsters games against Edinburgh? At home they only just managed the bonus point at the death, and actually didn't really look like getting it at all. Then in Edinburgh Munster could only manage 1 try (and a penalty try) to Edinburghs 2. At no point in the pool stages did Munster look like they were better than Ulster or Leinster. At no point in the league have they looked better. The only time they could possibly claim to be is down to that one performance in the Stoop. Unless Munster can back that up somehow though that remains nothing but an abberation.

Hagz

Clermont by 1-10

Lelantos wrote: »

It's been confirmed, he's reffing it. Leinster get Barnes

Wanna swap? I'd much rather Owens over Barnes.

.ak

Hagz wrote: »

Wanna swap? I'd much rather Owens over Barnes.

After last week's game I've had enough of Owens for a while... Although he is generally a far better ref than Barnes.

ed7890

molloyjh wrote: »

I think quoting stats without context is a bit pointless though. For example the tries for and against are heavily impacted by the fact that Munster faced Edinburgh who were beyond hopless. They had a ridiculous inability to score tries and were conceding to beat the band. Add to that a completely dis-interested Racing side in the final game and it was reasonably easy for Munsters try stats to look good.

If you want to talk about this meaning fully then why not talk about Munsters games against Edinburgh? At home they only just managed the bonus point at the death, and actually didn't really look like getting it at all. Then in Edinburgh Munster could only manage 1 try (and a penalty try) to Edinburghs 2. At no point in the pool stages did Munster look like they were better than Ulster or Leinster. At no point in the league have they looked better. The only time they could possibly claim to be is down to that one performance in the Stoop. Unless Munster can back that up somehow though that remains nothing but an abberation.

I mentioned the try stats to question .aks point that Ulster were utterly dominant. 12 tries from 5 wins doesn't seem to the stats you'd get from an utterly dominant team.

Ya Edinburgh did have a bad year, but they still put up a good fight for most of their games against Munster, except for 10 minutes at the end of the game in Thomond. Are Munster the only team that got a handy time out of a French team on the road? Munster still had to get out of a group containing a semi-finalist who beat Ulster fairly handily. Give them some credit for getting what they needed.

I'm not saying Munster were fantastic, but I'm not buying that Ulster are a much better team who just got a really tough draw. They got a similar draw. And i'd say Ulster and Munster are fairly evenly matched right now.

Micky Dolenz

Munster by more than 10

.ak wrote: »

Silly comparison. If all 3 teams were in the same pool you'd have a point... but they weren't, so you don't.

To be fair Munsters group was no walk in the park.

.ak

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

To be fair Munsters group was no walk in the park.

No, to be fair, it wasn't. But that's not the point I'm making... I'm just saying you can't judge how well the Irish teams are playing about where they are in the H-Cup.

For me, it's gotta be down to the head to heads. Let's drop stats and all that for a second, and make an assessment based on the rugby we've seen so far this season. Ulster have been the best province this season, in terms of rugby played.

Ofcourse it's winning that's all that matters, and if Munster make it to the final they'll be remembered for it and rightly so.

Lelantos

Hagz wrote: »

Wanna swap? I'd much rather Owens over Barnes.

I'm kinda hoping that the neither ref is a talking point after the games. I live in hope

yimrsg

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

To be fair Munsters group was no walk in the park.

Did you forget how bad Edinburgh were in the group stages? Was it the 3rd or 4th game before they registered points on the scoreboard? If Clermont could put nearly 50 points past Exeter away from home, imagine what they'd have done to Edinburgh.

Micky Dolenz

Munster by more than 10

yimrsg wrote: »

Did you forget how bad Edinburgh were in the group stages? Was it the 3rd or 4th game before they registered points on the scoreboard? If Clermont could put nearly 50 points past Exeter away from home, imagine what they'd have done to Edinburgh.

That was a fluke. Munsters good showing in the HC in the last decade or so tells it's own tale.

molloyjh

Munster by 1-10

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

That was a fluke. Munsters good showing in the HC in the last decade or so tells it's own tale.

What was a fluke? The Clermont win?

And what does Munsters past HEC successes have to do with how good they were this season?

Micky Dolenz

Munster by more than 10

molloyjh wrote: »

What was a fluke? The Clermont win?

And what does Munsters past HEC successes have to do with how good they were this season?

A fluke they even reached the semi's.

what has a squads past experience got to do with now?, well, experience of big match days I suppose.

yimrsg

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

That was a fluke. Munsters good showing in the HC in the last decade or so tells it's own tale.

Clermont's performance away to Exeter wasn't a fluke, they scored nearly 50 points in two other games in the groups, the only game Clermont weren't at their best was their home game against Leinster but they still managed to win. Even Montpellier who came with a monster pack and a very good game plan couldn't upset them.

Munster had the weakest side in the competition in their group, it's not unreasonable to imagine Clermont reaching 50/60/70/80 points against weak opposition. They put 70 or 80 past Italian opposition in the group stages last year. Talking about the last decade is largely irrelevant to how Clermont and Munster match will play out as there's only a handful of players from that era. I think it's going to be a bridge too far for Munster come the 27th and I could see Clermont getting up around 40 points.