Campag shifting

foxer3640

Hi all. I've been having some problems with my shifting on the rear derailler. Its a 2010 campag centaur. It seems to shift up (towards the center of the wheel) pretty ok if a little stiff but its terrible when shifting down. I have to click 3 times with the thumb before anything happens and then i jump 3 gears in one go :mad:. Its been going on for a while i've replaced cables and outers and keep it clean but it just never seems perfect. Funny thing is i have shimano tiagra on the training bike and its working like new even after a hard wet winters riding. Is centaur just a crap system or is there something i'm missing? one thing i notice is if i touch the cable under the downtube then it will shift. Should i upgrade the shifters to record? To say i'm sick of campag would be an understatement.... Help!

Laundry_Hamper

Sounds like the problem is either cable- or derailleur-related... When you move the derailleur's parallelogram with your hand, is it at all stiff?

DirkVoodoo

Sounds like cable is possibly catching somewhere and not releasing as you slacken the cable. Have you checked your cable routing under the bottom bracket?

foxer3640

Thanks for the quick replys guys. The derailler seems to be working fine and the cables were all replaced again recently. pulling my hair out

Laundry_Hamper

Any chance the ends of the cable outers weren't clipped very cleanly? Does the cable slide within them without any resistance?

bcmf

I am gonna go with the indexing system on the shifter is wearing.
How much use do you reckon they have had?
I think ,and I am open to correction, but there was an issue with some of the Centaur shifters being crap and benefitting from a rebuild. As I said I very much stand open to correction on that point.

foxer3640

Laundry_Hamper wrote: »

Any chance the ends of the cable outers weren't clipped very cleanly? Does the cable slide within them without any resistance?

Thanks will check that out. I have a feeling the problem is at the shifter but its only a guess. Would record shifters be an immprovement over centaur? i would change to ultegra in a heartbeat but it would cost a fortune.

Laundry_Hamper

bcmf wrote: »

I am gonna go with the indexing system on the shifter is wearing.
How much use do you reckon they have had?
I think ,and I am open to correction, but there was an issue with some of the Centaur shifters being crap and benefitting from a rebuild. As I said I very much stand open to correction on that point.

If three clicks results in the derailleur jumping three places, the springs and index ring are both grand.

foxer3640

Laundry_Hamper wrote: »

If three clicks results in the derailleur jumping three places, the springs and index ring are both grand.

Problem is that its jumping the 3 gears in one go like its sticking or something.

Laundry_Hamper

foxer3640 wrote: »

Problem is that its jumping the 3 gears in one go like its sticking or something.

Yeah, but if it sticks, the pawl that ratchets against the indexing ring won't move, and will slip into the same position again. Three clicks giving three shifts, even if it's all at once, says to me that the shifter itself is grand.

Edit: Technical correction: It's actually the ring that would be rotating, and not the pawl. My point still holds though.

bcmf

If the mech doesnt move one gear when he clicks for one gear and all the cables are new and clean but then the whole lot jumps in one its
IMO
the cable snagging due to be routed wrongly outta the housing or faulty shifters.
My opinion of course.

Laundry_Hamper

foxer3640 wrote: »

Thanks will check that out. I have a feeling the problem is at the shifter but its only a guess. Would record shifters be an immprovement over centaur? i would change to ultegra in a heartbeat but it would cost a fortune.

Here's some info for learning, and some pictures for comparing:

http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html

Seaneh

Here's a question for the campag heads.

I had the older sora on my last bike with the thumb shifter on the inside of the levers, it wrecked my head as it was impossible to control it from the drops so had to change hand position a lot to shift up/down.

Campag shifters have a similar thing shifter on their levers, how hard is it to operate those from the drops?

Genuinely interested because Im looking at a ribble 525 and think it would look the absolute mutts nuts with red and black centaur and red and black Khamsins on it but not totally sold on the above issue?

DirkVoodoo

Holy crap, I'm seeing double!

4 re-posts!*

*Shameless Simpsons rip-off

bcmf

Very easy to get the hang of it.

Pawlie

Seaneh wrote: »

Here's a question for the campag heads.

I had the older sora on my last bike with the thumb shifter on the inside of the levers, it wrecked my head as it was impossible to control it from the drops so had to change hand position a lot to shift up/down.

Campag shifters have a similar thing shifter on their levers, how hard is it to operate those from the drops?

Genuinely interested because Im looking at a ribble 525 and think it would look the absolute mutts nuts with red and black centaur and red and black Khamsins on it but not totally sold on the above issue?

I use campag centuer and the thump action is great I love it and I have no issue using it from the drops,the lever is lower than the shimano,and I have shimano on my old winter giant bike,if that is the only issue yea have with buying campag dont fret man,they work perfect and are very easy from drops

Laundry_Hamper

Seaneh wrote: »

Here's a question for the campag heads.

I had the older sora on my last bike with the thumb shifter on the inside of the levers, it wrecked my head as it was impossible to control it from the drops so had to change hand position a lot to shift up/down.

Campag shifters have a similar thing shifter on their levers, how hard is it to operate those from the drops?

Genuinely interested because Im looking at a ribble 525 and think it would look the absolute mutts nuts with red and black centaur and red and black Khamsins on it but not totally sold on the above issue?

Head out to a bike shop and fondle some Campy stuff, sure.

foxer3640

Pawlie wrote: »

I use campag centuer and the thump action is great I love it and I have no issue using it from the drops,the lever is lower than the shimano,and I have shimano on my old winter giant bike,if that is the only issue yea have with buying campag dont fret man,they work perfect and are very easy from drops

Will have to beg to differ there Pawlie. The minute i can get a few quid together my campag stuff is going in the bin and I'm gonna stick on shimano. My experience so far is that the Tiagra while a bit clunky is miles ahead of the centaur for reliability and accurate shifting. To each their own though.

bcmf

foxer,
Campag is notorious for having the shift set up 100% perfect.
Everything from threading the cable thru the shifter to the lenght of the cable housing running into the rear mech.
HOWEVER
once its set up properly a very minute adjusting of the cable when bedded in is all that is needed.
It should run clean as whistle.
If you do decide to bin it when you get Sh itmano will ya let me know where your bins are.
Cheers

DirkVoodoo

Not to mention the fact Campagnolo seem to have ripped out the chapter of "standardization" from their copy of "the history of the industrial revolution". Not only do they change their own standards on a whim, but not following Shimano and Sram on making standard freehub designs really grinds my gears, so to speak.

bcmf

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Not to mention the fact Campagnolo seem to have ripped out the chapter of "standardization" from their copy of "the history of the industrial revolution". Not only do they change their own standards on a whim, but not following Shimano and Sram on making standard freehub designs really grinds my gears, so to speak.

But why be the same when you can be different and sexier.

letape

foxer3640 wrote: »

Will have to beg to differ there Pawlie. The minute i can get a few quid together my campag stuff is going in the bin and I'm gonna stick on shimano. My experience so far is that the Tiagra while a bit clunky is miles ahead of the centaur for reliability and accurate shifting. To each their own though.

Foxer - my experience of campag is that it should run faultlessly. If you live near Greystones or Bray I'd be happy to take a look at it for you and I'm pretty sure I'd have it working properly.

letape

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Not to mention the fact Campagnolo seem to have ripped out the chapter of "standardization" from their copy of "the history of the industrial revolution". Not only do they change their own standards on a whim, but not following Shimano and Sram on making standard freehub designs really grinds my gears, so to speak.

Why should they follow Shimano or SRAM, when they were first! - first with 10 speed and 11. Shimano choose a different 11 speed freehub spec when they could have followed Campagnolo and made it much easier for the consumer.

Casati

bcmf wrote: »

Very easy to get the hang of it.

Its a good design, v easy to use in the drops, button is better positioned and better shaped versus Sora

Casati

Laundry_Hamper wrote: »

Any chance the ends of the cable outers weren't clipped very cleanly? Does the cable slide within them without any resistance?

This would explain things- I've noticed Campag gear outers often close in when cutting the cable and have to be widened with with a needle

DirkVoodoo

letape wrote: »

Why should they follow Shimano or SRAM, when they were first! - first with 10 speed and 11. Shimano choose a different 11 speed freehub spec when they could have followed Campagnolo and made it much easier for the consumer.

Generally the smallest follows the biggest. I'm not sure what you mean about the 10 versus 11 speed, I don't know much about the new Dura Ace and compatibility with older 10 speed hubs and what conversion is needed, but the spline patterns look more or less the same.

Anyway, that's before you even get to the real annoyances: ultra-torque versus power torque, deliberately nerfing your lower end groupsets with power-shift, over-priced tools when simpler solutions exist (tried taking a power torque crank off yet?), 11 speed chain tools when 3rd party makers have cheap and reliable alternatives...I could possibly go on.

Oh yes, EPS...price of spares, no external harness conversion for older frames, brain is part of the battery so both exposed to elements if battery charging cover left open and makes seatpost solutions impossible...at least they followed Shimano's wiring standard there.

bcmf

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

.... the real annoyances: ultra-torque versus power torque, deliberately nerfing your lower end groupsets with power-shift, over-priced tools when simpler solutions exist (tried taking a power torque crank off yet?), 11 speed chain tools when 3rd party makers have cheap and reliable alternatives...I could possibly go on.

Have to agree with The Voodoo man.
The Power Torque thing is utter nonesense.
The dumbing down of the new lower end shifters is ,IMO, forcing up the price of the decent 2009 and older 10sp shifters.

DirkVoodoo

bcmf wrote: »

Have to agree with The Voodoo man.
The Power Torque thing is utter nonesense.
The dumbing down of the new lower end shifters is ,IMO, forcing up the price of the decent 2009 and older 10sp shifters.

I have to apologise to Letape and yourself, I'm currently hating Campag at the moment. Tempted by EPS but it would mean a new frame whereas Di2 would not, and now a potential purchase is being mucked up because 90% of the world rides Shimano/SRAM and I chose the 10%...

bcmf

well look.
Take off your Campy stuff and go and buy the U2i or D2i (or whatever its called).
Put all your ugly Campy stuff in a box and I will take it away from you. And I wont even charge you for the service.
Its a win - win.

happytramp

foxer3640 wrote: »

My experience so far is that the Tiagra while a bit clunky is miles ahead of the centaur for reliability and accurate shifting. To each their own though.

Yeah, you've almost certainly not got it set up correctly if that's the case.

doozerie

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean about the 10 versus 11 speed, I don't know much about the new Dura Ace and compatibility with older 10 speed hubs and what conversion is needed, but the spline patterns look more or less the same.

It was a few months back now, but when I last looked up info on the new Shimano 11 speed it seemed like the 11sp cassette is wider (by 2mm) than the 10 speed cassette. The speculation at the time was that whether a Shimano 11sp cassette would work on an existing 10sp freehub was uncertain, probably will work for some probably won't work for others. Perhaps the situation is more clear at this stage though, I've not checked, but based on the info available at the time there could be quite a few people with Shimano 10sp wheelsets complaining about Shimano when looking to upgrade to 11sp. That's not to defend some of the decisions that Campagnolo have made down through the years but Shimano aren't immune from annoying their fans either.

Interestingly, I also read speculation at the time that a Shimano 11sp cassette would work with Campag 11sp, if you choose your chain carefully (can't recall the details offhand), meaning that Shimano compatible wheels could be used interchangeably between the two brands. Again, maybe it is clearer by now whether that is really likely.